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Thread: Need to update codecs and what is best to render out to DVD

  1. #1
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    Need to update codecs and what is best to render out to DVD

    How do you get new codec into Speededit2?

    I bought QuickTime pro and tried to download other codec and install them but they never show up in the render window options. Its getting kinda crazy when I cant get a quality render out of speededit2 to send out over and FTP for work. Ended up sending a bunch of RAW clips cause the quality was not high enough after I cut and cleaned them up for my employer, kinda embarrassing.......I use final cut at the news station I work at, why can QuickTime Movie come out looking so good and SpeedHQ, SE2 native format looks kinda sad on output.

    What is one of the better codec to render to dvd out of the few SE2 has to offer. Seems like you lose a lot of overall quality no matter what codec you use.

    Please Help!

  2. #2
    Can you be more specific on how it looks bad? SpeedHQ is generally considered very good, especially the 4:2:2 variants.

    If it's soft or has bad sharp edges and you don't use DVEs, just cuts, fades and control tree moves, try changing the preference for "Rendering of SD-only DVEs to non-SD resolutions" to "Substitute Crossfades (full quality)", then restart SE.

    This can dramatically improve the output quality since it doesn't have to account for the SD DVEs.
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  3. #3
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    It looks blocky if that makes sense. Plus SpeedHQ does not really work with anything else besides newtek so not like I can send it to a dvd program. but it litterally looks like when you hd signal on yor tv is getting weak the blockyness of the edges on people and objects.

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    Hi Diceofseven,

    The problem is that SpeedHQ should only really be used within SpeedEDIT or with other software that's on the same machine(s) that SpeedEDIT is installed on and not anywhere else. If you remember to do that then you'll find that SpeedHQ files produces a very good image. But don't do something like rendering a SpeedHQ file more than once into SpeedHQ format or you'll start to get poorer images.

    Regarding your QT problem. I doubt SE will ever produce a decent QT render, so you're best bet is to install VirtualDub on your computer, render out a SpeedHQ final project (see above conditions) or uncompressed version and put that file through VirtualDub setting it to render out to QT in order to get a quality QT file.

    Finally, if you want to make a file for dvd (not blu-ray) then a good one is one of SpeedEDIT's DV type 2 presets. I find they produce very good quality images on dvds.

    Shabazzy

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    Alright I will give that a shot but it comes down to I want to export stuff out of Speededit 2 and have it look as beautiful as it did when I drug it into SE2 from my camera. Speed Edit just does not seem to be able to accomplish this simple task. lol

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diceofseven View Post
    Alright I will give that a shot but it comes down to I want to export stuff out of Speededit 2 and have it look as beautiful as it did when I drug it into SE2 from my camera. Speed Edit just does not seem to be able to accomplish this simple task. lol
    Yeah. I know what you mean. Everyone (and I mean everyone) here wants that exact same thing. But the key to achieving that is understanding the more technical aspects of this video editing game. Once you know the reasons behind it all, you'll develop a better work flow and editing becomes a lot more smoother.

    Shabazzy

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    I think it's a fielding issue

    To me, John if you're still listening at this point, is that when rendering out of SE, I have never seen SE render proper 60 fields in any of the SD MPEG 2 formats. Rendering for DVD from SE (and a LOT OF OTHER PROGAMS!!) seems to cut out the second field of the 29.97 framerate. There should be 2 'frames' of motion in each frame, because of the shift of the object after the scanning of the first field of each frame compared to the scanning of the second field. If you watch video on your camera, it probably looks fantastically smooth, like watching running water in daylight - if you can imagine what I mean, compared to watching it on a single-field playback player, in which you're still getting 29.97 frames per second, but only one field of the 2 in each frame, meaning the framerate is halved, and the running water smoothness is more like watching it under a fluorescent tube that is flickering badly before it dies. (You've all seen those fluoro tubes go into that rapid flicker before they have to be changed) That he the effect I get when I render ANY of the SD MPEG2 varieties that SE has to offer. I haven't seen one yet that doesn't delete the second field of motion. And this tends to make the image block too because you're missing a lot of the resolution in the second field, and you have twice as long in each frame to see the MPEG block artifacts.

    I render to HDV 1080i routinely, because it gives me the second fields, and then I play it with a networked OPPO DVD player, while I re-capture it with a Pioneer LX-1 real time DVD recorder. That gives me tremendously smooth encoding which looks as close to HD as SD can get.

    Mutley

  8. #8
    Mutley: Do you see this field problem even with DVEs disabled as mentioned above?

    If you have to change the preference, make sure you restart SE afterward.

    I'll render a field test out to a DVD preset and see if I can spot anything.
    John Perkins
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    "No, it's my natural color..."

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    Holy guacamole batman!! I think i just made a breakthrough!!

    Dear John,

    Thank you for your interest, I have been checking this out in more detail since your question, and I just made what I consider to be a major breakthrough. You can test what I found here for yourself and see if it's true on your system, however what I have discovered is that if you take a simple bitmap, load it into a new project (1920 x 1080, 29.97 interlaced), and make a 5 second keyframed change in position, like a pan or a zoom or something, and then play it back on the computer you will see beautiful motion, if your preview screen is selected to show both fields, not defielded. If you render it to a NTSC DV type II 16 x 9 file, and then play it back you will see a beautiful smooth image, just like you had on your preview window.

    Then try rendering it to a NTSC 60 minute 16x9 DVD 8Mbps CBR file, the top option in your MPEG-2 files render options list, and then play it back, you will see that it does interlaced but it jerks like only 30 frames per second, meaning it's chopping out the second field of each frame, and you lose all that beautiful motion smoothness.

    I had the same result in high definition by rendering it to a TriCaster DDR - project size file. I lost all the beautiful motion smoothness, and I did tests both before and after enabling and disabling the SD transitions option, first option in the preferences window, that you mentioned. It didn't seem to make any difference.

    If you try rendering it to an NTSC HDV 1080I MPEG-2 file, (M2T) I also get that jerkiness. However, If I open up that preset, and change the frame rate from 29.97 to 60, I get beautiful smooth motion.

    AND HERE IS THE MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH:

    This prompted me to go back to the MPEG-2 top option, NTSC 60 minute 16x9 DVD 8Mbps CBR, and opened the preset and change the frame rate from 29.97 to 60, and I got beautiful smooth motion on a DVD ready file, and it seems to be a lot less blocky than it used to be. WOW! Who would have thought to change that frame rate, but thank God you included the option! Just goes to show how brilliant you and SpeedEDIT have always been.

    This is great, this means that now I can render DVD files which look awesome and are fast to render.

    The only problem with this is, that I just tried 2 DVD authoring programs, namely NeroVision Express and Roxio DVDit Pro HD, and I got unfortunate results. NeroVision Express chopped off the second fields and I lost the smoothness, and Roxio decided it was an invalid format and only imported the audio as valid media.

    So then I decided to try progressive files, and I got similar results. The 29.97 file predictably looked jerky, and the 60 FPS file look good. However, the DVD programs have similar results. NeroVision Express again brought it back down to single field jerky motion, and Roxio this time said both file formats were invalid and wanted to recode the video at burn time.

    So I can make the nice files but I can't do much with them, in terms of making DVDs out of them. However, there is probably other software out there that might accept these files.

    What do I do? Are there more settings I can try to get the nice smooth motion to work with different MPEG-2 encoding possibilities? (I don't profess to being a master of all of the possible clickable attributes of an MPEG-2 encoder, like all the tabs of things like Trellis quantization and such in the encoder options), or if this is something you want to have somebody experiment with there so we can all benefit from the awesome results... Maybe it's just a matter of making 60FPS files but 'flagging' them as only 29.97, so that all the programs accept them as they are, and don't feel compelled to re-render them when they're fine as they are?!

    Definitely worth investigating at your end!!!

    Best regards,
    Mutley Eugenius.

  10. #10
    Thanks for investigating.

    It sounds legitimate, I'll have to dig into that and see what I can find.

    Thanks,
    John Perkins
    Software Engineer

    "No, it's my natural color..."

  11. #11
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    I'm thinking... If we get that fixed up, then make a rendering option of "Render .VOB to VIDEO_TS directory" which then includes the required .IFOs & .BUPs to make it Burn & Playable in any DVD player... Now THAT would be SWEET!!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mutley Eugenius View Post
    there is probably other software out there that might accept these files.
    Encoding: TMPGEnc
    DVD Creation: DVD-lab PRO 2

    Thanks for trying to get SpeedEdit to encode better. Generally, SpeedEdit is great for chopping up the timeline, but for all other tasks its best to use a third party app.

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