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Thread: Face Rig Challenge!

  1. #1
    luxowaver silviotoledo's Avatar
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    Face Rig Challenge!

    I wonder if, in this forum, someone would be able to reproduce face rig with bones ( muscle-bones ) with the quality other users form other packs were able to do 6 years before.

    It seems it's still too hard so setup muscle-bone in lightwave.
    there's 3 expressions and they're too dificult to adjust. I'd like to see a bone where you can attach the last tip to something easelly.

    Mike Green script is the easest way to setup a muscle bone, but it's not visual as required.

    MAYA FACE RIG
    http://www.antropus.com/artblog/?p=1327
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYDuF8DTOJM

    MESSIAH FACE RIG
    http://www.3dluvr.com/jonkajtys/messiah_rig/

    MAX FACE RIG
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN8dvJoe4ew

    BLENDER FACE RIG
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3Yp57AcLeM
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRQY13WKcGs

    XSI FACE RIG
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEvul3LL8KA


    And a model attached if someone would like to try!
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by silviotoledo; 11-23-2011 at 09:46 AM.
    Silvio Toledo
    Brazil

  2. #2
    i think so, just need better "group" control options, although
    you can set stuff like that up now, i've just been ending up
    with alot of items in the end.

    that 1st link was recognized as a threat by avg.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    maybe check RHR
    yuh... no need for expressions... 1 bone, Ik scale, next bone, goal item... done.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
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  5. #5
    yes, shouldn't be that hard from what i understand...

    probably underrated as many wavers don't rig.

    actually come to think of it, Maestro should do an excellent job here, even better (faster) than the other apps...
    http://stillwaterpictures.com/maestro/
    http://www.stillwaterpictures.com/Ma...aturesv2.3.mov

     
    Last edited by erikals; 11-23-2011 at 01:01 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Will not make a joint rig as I think its the wrong way of doing it. It gets complicated in any package way too fast.

    I go with morphs and add controllers on the face to drive these.
    It is easy to add a few joints to this aswell.
    However, I would like an easier way to do local influence for morphs.

    simple face rig here.. Not nearly enough controls added yet, but so much easier to make and control:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85o01dM32qk

    and another one with same tech:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcVHb-X_1wI
    -----------------------------------------
    Henrik Skymne
    Artist at Ghost games :: Electronic Arts
    [email protected]

  7. #7
    Last edited by erikals; 11-24-2011 at 01:18 AM.
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  8. #8
    Dimension the Third voriax's Avatar
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    Not sure it counts .. A thread from 2008..
    http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?t=86581

    All I remember was it took a while to set up and still wasn't as versatile as I'd like.

  9. #9
    luxowaver silviotoledo's Avatar
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    tudor

    Thanks for sharing! Endomorphs are a great way to do face expressions, but combined with bones it would look a bit more interesting as it allows non-linear control and better neighboor interaction.

    Erikals

    TAFA and Mestro have nice visual joystic control for multiple endomorphs manipulation at once, what is great, but I think bones still looks more realistic we need to combine both.


    RebelHill

    Thanks! Will try to setup a muscle-bone this way soon. Hope it will do what IKB does. Will I still need to add several nulls?


    Voriax

    Yeah, you have the kind of rig I was looking for, but IK boost still looks alien for me.


    I can't understand why did not Newtek include IKB features in the actual bones and why does NT back to normal bones when all the others are in joints. IKB seems to be complex, easy and difficult to integrate.
    Silvio Toledo
    Brazil

  10. #10
    I tried something similar a while ago with a plugin called muscle bone.
    It could squatch while getting shorter which was awesome for muscle bulge.
    I looked at an anatomy manual and reproduced all the muscles and put some bones for the hard parts.
    The OGL refresh wasn't fast or accurate. I had problems with the mouth too that wasn't deforming correctly. Bones influence only. I used no weight and that was good and bad. Some places had natural deformations and some others, not at all.
    I found Rh's rig pretty good.
    The problem with morphs is that if you don't move many other points (like nose or neck or cheek for the mouth) and if you don't move them correctly, it doesn't look natural.
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  11. #11
    And most of the time, mouth is a problem, especially because of changes in the volume.
    555Lab.com


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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by silviotoledo View Post
    tudor

    Thanks for sharing! Endomorphs are a great way to do face expressions, but combined with bones it would look a bit more interesting as it allows non-linear control and better neighboor interaction.......
    For a realistic human this is never a problem. Eyeballs and big mouths on cartoon characters does present a problem though.

    The thing, as with all good facial animation is to involve the entire face.

    What I usually do is this:
    I create the basic shapes: A, M, E, O and F.
    A and M I see as counterparts. They can never be applied at the same time so I put them on oppisite ends of a slider.
    Same for E and O.

    I look and see if E and A work together, because when both are fully applied we have a big open mouth smile. If they dont work, I create a mix of both of them and as I pull the E and A slider towards max the mix fades in while it ignores the individual phonemes.

    AE=A*E
    A=1-A*E
    E=1-A*E

    Once all this is done I have a base that I can do fairly good animation with, but lacking the flair.
    I then add curls to lips, happy(eyebrows up, checkbones up), sad(frown and down turned lips), squint crooked smiles etc. I try to mix and match with the morph targets I already have.

    I also tend to put happy and sad on opposite sides of a slider. This way I can set a general tone to the mood easily.

    Works well for me. but then I do mostly toons.

    example here: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/6831843/blue.rar
    Last edited by tudor; 11-28-2011 at 05:01 AM.
    -----------------------------------------
    Henrik Skymne
    Artist at Ghost games :: Electronic Arts
    [email protected]

  13. #13
    what would be nice is the ability to convert bones from Layout
    into skelegons, take them into modeler create your morphs with
    the skelegons/bones and then send them back to layout without
    having to setup the bones again.

    i wonder if they could like tag the skelegons when converting
    them from Layout to a seperate setup file to be referenced when
    those specific skelegons are reconverted back into Layout after being
    in Modeler.
    Last edited by VonBon; 11-28-2011 at 08:29 AM.

  14. #14
    luxowaver silviotoledo's Avatar
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    A bone with a tip wich you can attach to something ( right rick and choose attach here ) would be so great! So the bone just would follow the target doing squash and stretch and you just need 1 parameter to set the amount of stretch and squash in the side volum.

    Why is to so difficult to developpers do a muscle bone?
    Silvio Toledo
    Brazil

  15. #15
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Because when u say why not have a 1 click muscle bone.. u then get led to think, what if I want the stretch though without the trget behavior, or the target behavior but not the stretch, and have those as one click options... and you start to wind down the territory of having one tool for every possible setup combination, on either a single bone, or many bones... or nulls... why cant I have those for nulls too??

    Mission creep.

    What you describe can be setup, by hand in less than 30 secs (less time than it took to write this post)... as can many of the other possible combinations of simple controllers on single items... what is so hard about that, I dont get it.

    Ofc if its something that you find u do a lot of one specific thing like that, and you just HAVE to have a one click button... then all u gotta do is fire up lscomander, make it once, and basically hit install.
    LSR Surface and Rendering Tuts.
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