Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: Why doesn't adaptive AA like me?

  1. #1
    Unsqueezable Sponge xxiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    793

    Why doesn't adaptive AA like me?

    Attached, the same scene rendered with AA set to 64, and with Adaptive AA. No matter what I do, I can't get the Adaptive version to look like the 64 version (or any better than it looks in this attachment). At the most, Adaptive seems to do two extra passes in the blurry parts of the image, when it needs to do several dozen. (in manual settings, 16 still looks graney, 32 starts to look good)

    This seems to defeat the entire purpose of Adaptive, which is supposed to target the areas that need it the most, and have at it.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	aa64_20111101.jpg 
Views:	104 
Size:	387.1 KB 
ID:	98995   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	aaAdaptive_20111101.jpg 
Views:	108 
Size:	638.6 KB 
ID:	98996  
    <*> -- Know Future

    Zap: Magnify that death sphere. ... Why is it still blurry?
    Kif: That's all the resolution we have. Making it bigger doesn't make it clearer.
    Zap: It does on CSI: Miami.

  2. #2
    Can you post scene ?

    did you try to turn on Oversample at 0.7 ?
    RAM-Studio
    WS - Dual Xeon E5-2698v4/128GB/Win10x64/x TitanX(M) + 2x GTX 1080Ti + GTX 1080
    My LWM Video Car Modeling Tutorial

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    25
    You should have a read of this

    It's a fantastic guide which runs through what all the various settings do, typical range values you should be looking at, and what the "classic" camera is most similar too.

    You will see a table where it shows you the AA value and the maximum number of adaptive sampling passes you will get at that AA level. It is stepped and as the AA goes up the maximum passes of AS goes down (which is logical - you need less fine correction the greater the overall AA level is).

    Threshold value is the contrast difference between 2 adjacent pixels (i.e lower value is more critical and more adaptive sampling will occur giving better AA results)

    Oversampling can be likened to "selection feather value" or "blur" in photoshop, where the value extends the AA sampling beyond the usual sample range to give a localised "blurring" or "softening" of the adaptive sampling. As I understand it the value represents the value it extends in pixels (so 0.5 would be half a pixel for example)

    You need to confirm what your current AA setting is (when using adaptive sampling), but to hazard a guess, based on the fact you're using 64 passes for the standard benchmark, try something like:

    AA = 16
    Threshold = 0.03
    Oversampling = 0.5 (or higher if it's still pixelated)

    Let us know how you get on.
    Last edited by cptwhite; 11-02-2011 at 06:16 AM.

  4. #4
    what is the adaptive sampling theshold ?

  5. #5
    try this,...

    AA=3
    AS=0.1 (or even 0.05) lower value makes better quality...
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  6. #6
    Unsqueezable Sponge xxiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    793
    Here is the scene, (except I'd changed the floor to white in my initial post).

    Above a certain point with AA, it acts like its not going to make any additional (adaptive) passes, no matter what. As saved here, threshold is set to the minimum it will go (without hitting 0). I also tried the various suggestions made so far.

    I find myself wishing some of these settings (such as max passes) were directly settable instead of inferred, but in this case, as far as I can tell, threshold just isn't working, or else its calcuation of how many additional passes it should do isn't working (which seems to be the case based on the progress bar).

    I might give "hank the donut" a try and see what happens, but it seems like something just ins't right in the Adaptive system. I would think a threshold of .0001 would pretty much force it to use the maximum samples on the entire scene, which according to the except guide should be 4 more passes for an AA of 16, but in watching the progress bar, one can see that it doesn't even allow space for these potential extra passes (whereas with lower AA, the progress bar DOES allow room and you can see the 1 or two extra passes it makes).

    Lastly (this scene is about 4 years old) is there a compatibility switch I need to turn off somewhere that is perhaps making it act this way?

    I also had a thought that perhaps it was calculating aliasing before doing color-space correction, (I've tried it with and without) but it still looks pixelated either way, and still refuses to do additional adaptive passes.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    <*> -- Know Future

    Zap: Magnify that death sphere. ... Why is it still blurry?
    Kif: That's all the resolution we have. Making it bigger doesn't make it clearer.
    Zap: It does on CSI: Miami.

  7. #7
    not sure why, but try this,

    AA = 99
    AS = (off)
    OS = (off)
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  8. #8
    Space Monkey 3DGFXStudios's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    3,121
    Why are you using AS if you're using DOF? It's faster to turn it of and your DOF will look nicer

  9. #9
    Hows this with proper AA/AS settings in 78 seconds ?

    AA 2, AS 0.005, OS 0.7 and few small tweaks .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	AA_AS_78sec.png 
Views:	91 
Size:	1.01 MB 
ID:	99014  
    RAM-Studio
    WS - Dual Xeon E5-2698v4/128GB/Win10x64/x TitanX(M) + 2x GTX 1080Ti + GTX 1080
    My LWM Video Car Modeling Tutorial

  10. #10
    BTW here is scene file where AS kicks in very much. Actually you could turn down AA even to 1 if you wish, it's little more grain but not much more and it'll shave of another 6-7 seconds of rendertime .
    Attached Files Attached Files
    RAM-Studio
    WS - Dual Xeon E5-2698v4/128GB/Win10x64/x TitanX(M) + 2x GTX 1080Ti + GTX 1080
    My LWM Video Car Modeling Tutorial

  11. #11
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    2,235
    First:
    AA 513 passes: 4:09

    Second:
    AA 2
    AS 0.03
    OS 0.7
    Motion Blur Photoreal 5: 24.5 seconds

    Motion Blur of 3 is ok: 14.5 seconds
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Blur_513_passes.jpg 
Views:	71 
Size:	239.7 KB 
ID:	99017   Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Blur_aa2_as0-03_os0-7_mb5.jpg 
Views:	63 
Size:	246.8 KB 
ID:	99018  
    Last edited by JonW; 11-02-2011 at 06:20 PM.
    Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

    W5580 x 2 24GB, Mac Mini, Spyder3Elite, Dulux 30gg 83/006 72/008 grey room,
    XeroxC2255, UPS EvolutionS 3kw+2xEXB

  12. #12
    nice...! fast..!
    LW vidz   DPont donate   LightWiki   RHiggit   IKBooster   My vidz

  13. #13
    Super Member JonW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Sydney Australia
    Posts
    2,235
    Now it's getting silly!

    Here is AA 4097 passes: 35:21

    I've found after 600 to 700 passes things start to go wrong.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Blur_4097_passes.jpg 
Views:	56 
Size:	628.8 KB 
ID:	99019  
    Procrastination, mankind's greatest labour saving device!

    W5580 x 2 24GB, Mac Mini, Spyder3Elite, Dulux 30gg 83/006 72/008 grey room,
    XeroxC2255, UPS EvolutionS 3kw+2xEXB

  14. #14
    Unsqueezable Sponge xxiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Hows this with proper AA/AS settings in 78 seconds ?

    AA 2, AS 0.005, OS 0.7 and few small tweaks .
    Ok, 68.6 seconds for me

    Playing around with the differences, it appears "Use Global" in the motion options is the culprit, even though my global motion options are set to exactly the same thing.

    This is similar to the bug I originally created this scene to investigate/demonstrate, which I thought was fixed now. This used to occur when the "camera use global" was checked, and if I remember right, motion options didn't used to have its own "use global" but I'm fuzzy on this.

    When I resurrected this scene, it didn't occur to me to (re)check the use global settings (except for the camera one which I did try, having been the cause of this problem last time) when the old problem resurfaced.

    So, do others agree this seems to be a bug, and I should (re)report it? Or, is there some logical (I fail to see how) reason it should be behaving this way?
    <*> -- Know Future

    Zap: Magnify that death sphere. ... Why is it still blurry?
    Kif: That's all the resolution we have. Making it bigger doesn't make it clearer.
    Zap: It does on CSI: Miami.

  15. #15
    Unsqueezable Sponge xxiii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Ogden, UT
    Posts
    793
    Quote Originally Posted by 3DGFXStudios View Post
    Why are you using AS if you're using DOF? It's faster to turn it of and your DOF will look nicer
    I'm not sure why DOF and AS should be mutually exclusive, or faster or better looking with it off? But if this same (apparent) bug has been biting you as well, perhaps it lead to this conclusion?
    <*> -- Know Future

    Zap: Magnify that death sphere. ... Why is it still blurry?
    Kif: That's all the resolution we have. Making it bigger doesn't make it clearer.
    Zap: It does on CSI: Miami.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •