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Thread: Hypervoxels, the Battle

  1. #1

    Hypervoxels, the Battle

    ...based on some other threads, i'm copying some ideas and requests here.

    we all know how Hypervoxels needs a fight, so what are the tricks workarounds and feature requests we need to use/ request to get this going(!)

    starting with the HVs blending mode, is there a way to cheat it, or do we need to bring out the torches?



    i guess currently we got 3 "gotchas"

    Hypervoxels, liquid, distance between particles (post 2)
    Hypervoxels, smoke, blending like in 5.6 (post 3)
    1 million particle limit (post 4)
     
    Last edited by erikals; 07-30-2011 at 12:14 PM.
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  2. #2
    Hypervoxels, liquid, distance between particles problem
    can DPont's particle info node do fix it?
    http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=128

    can it make this RealFlow effect? (to the right)
    or are we stuck with LW's poor Hypervoxel blending solution (to the left)
    http://www.box.net/shared/static/ietmqz76vh.mov

     
    Last edited by erikals; 07-30-2011 at 01:23 PM.
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  3. #3
    Last edited by erikals; 07-30-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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  4. #4
    1 million particle limit

    (1.5 mill is possible, but there are problems, read on...)
    http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111502

     
    Last edited by erikals; 07-30-2011 at 01:21 PM.
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  5. #5
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Lightwave 10.5 and no update to the voxel system, I think you would see me in that torch crowd then

    but basicly we are just repeating our self here, I dont think we can fix the issue with metaball blending with dpontīs nodes as to what I have heard of?

    just study the dynamite voxel plugin and draw the best from it such as the metaball blending, the fireshader and rayleigh functions strengh channels and the polyon abilities, I would keep the lightwave procedurals thou, I wasnīt fond of the dynamites noises wich I only think the cells smoke worked decent, the others had a weird angle twist to them.

    the rest is an implementation and increasement of particle handling and more effecient way to deal with renderings of massive particle clusters.
    Remove that particle limit please.

    I am about to post a feature request with a road map of some of those things and forward that to newtek.

    first and foremost the distance between particle parameter in every channel possible, then the metaball blending, and then I would see simple preset loading of the color gradient channel, then the addition of a more realistic fire shading ala dynamite.

    theres a lot more that I think could be done, within the metaball blending you could perhaps extract out that metaball bounding volume, and from that offset increase that bounding volume wich then could serve as the edge boundarie where the hypertexture is stronger, smoother or thinner than the inner volume.

    I could imagine that hypertextures itself could be different when connected to that ofsett boundaries, and also hypertextures that could swith from fbm to turbulence depending on particle age for example.

    Ill get back to explain that in a more graphic way when I have the time so set up a feature request of that, and perhaps include ways to work with particles in a user friendly way.
    With that in mind, Im not a programmer so those suggestions would be very loose in terms of what could be implemented, but letīs aim to where we want it to be...either it can be done or It canīt.

    Ogo taiki as a solution..well not sure of that, but I would se an update/replace of skytracer and that would include a fully volumetric system ala ogo taiki but improved..Itīs still a pain in the...that ogo taiki
    had wonderful sky renders with volumetric clouds long before vue got theirs..and then what...nothing.

    Michael

  6. #6
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Implementing true volumetric objecs would be nice too, like implicit surfaces for houdini...so easy to just drag and drop a volumetric shader on the geometry and there you have it.

    this is not just applying hv on vertexes of the object, you could get so much more
    beautiful cloud effects if this could be implemented, just sculp the cloud layers, use above mentioned offset technique so you can have perlin billowing textures for the main body of the sculpted cloud geometry, and the outer edge offset could have a more thinner volumetric voxel and a completly different texture such as whispy turbulence.

    No puffy round syndrome due to the voxel assignment to vertices it should all be blended nicely to the curved surfaces.

    Michael

  7. #7
    skeptic lertola2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    Wow, great demo. It really highlights the short comings of hypervoxel blending.

    -Joe

  8. #8
    interesting quote from another thread,

    Quote Originally Posted by mav3rick View Post
    i have showed MR. RID BUBBLE generator v3 video to one of NT engineers and he commented me that this fix isn't big one... i just wonder why it isn't done already? maybe they want to make hv4 ?
    hm... NT says this is not a problem, so why isn't the liquid blending fixed?
    NT...? you reading this?
     
    Last edited by erikals; 07-30-2011 at 01:02 PM.
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  9. #9
    As has been mentioned, what Hypervoxels need is a way to blend the blobs together and control over that via envelopes and textures.
    HV2.0 in the LW 5.6 days did offer some of theat control, but for some reason this was never implemented in HVs 3.0.
    Currently only surface HVs blend and there is no control over how much they blend (the current setting was chosen poorly as it does not realy fit for much). You can only turn it on and off.
    I would suspect that the blobs are based on force fields, like Metaballs are. A stronger force field will cause them to blend less, a weaker force field to blend more.
    Volume HVs would also benefit from blending. Smoke effects look much more convincing, if individual blobs dont separate from the main cloud.
    I think that one could even put blending into HV Sprites, making them much more usable for smoke and other effects.
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  10. #10
    hm... NT says this is not a problem, so why isn't the liquid blending fixed?
    Good question...
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  11. #11
    Profesor Pixel Poo Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    hm... NT says this is not a problem, so why isn't the liquid blending fixed? 
    As far back as 7.5, I included this in a feature request compiled at a LW house, sent directly to dev, via Dave Jerrard. Have since requested and brought it up on the forums countless times. I might as well be asking the cat to fix it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Mr Rid; 07-30-2011 at 04:54 PM.
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  12. #12
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    As far back as 7.5, I included this in a feature request compiled at a LW house, sent directly to dev, via Dave Jerrard. Have since requested and brought it up on the forums countless times. I might as well be asking the cat to fix it.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    So why donīt you ask the cat?

    Seriously send a solution for solving ear wax to each guy in the development team over at newtek, and do it some time before you send the request of improvements, but not to early..the ear wax could start piling up again.

    Michael

  13. #13
    Profesor Pixel Poo Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    So why donīt you ask the cat?

    Michael
    I did, and he is licking his balls, same as NT I guess.

    Have never figured out how to get NT to listen, in the least. I submit individual feature requests, and have contributed to official lists that they even specifically asked us for... *crickets*. Traditionally, whenever someone in the room says something like 'why dont you contact support,' the more experienced users all roll eyes and shake heads (a few of which used to work for NT). Supposedly they listen to a few select houses. Their unfolding agenda is ever baffling.
    Last edited by Mr Rid; 07-30-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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  14. #14
    RETROGRADER prometheus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    I did, and he is licking his balls, same as NT I guess.

    Have never figured out how to get NT to listen, in the least. I submit individual feature requests, and have contributed to official lists that they even specifically asked us for... *crickets*. Traditionally, whenever someone in the room says something like 'why dont you contact support,' the more experienced users all roll eyes and shake heads (a few of which used to work for NT). Supposedly they listen to a few select houses. Their unfolding agenda is ever baffling.
    Haha..thank you Mr Rid..that was the laugh of the day, I could go to sleep now with a smile on my face, I wish I could do the same as the cat thou...that is to sleep many many hours and purring nicely, what else did you think?

    Yeah that is a mindboggling mystery, how to get your ideas and thoughts heard and implemented, Maybe people here on the forums is screaming out to low and too few are screaming out loud, One mosquito biting newteks skin is easy to swift away, but a whole bunch buzzing ..that must be dealt with.

    Iīll try to raise my voice and forward feature requests too when Ivé mapped it down a little more graphicly.

    Michael

  15. #15
    Man of many cells. shrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prometheus View Post
    Haha..thank you Mr Rid..that was the laugh of the day, I could go to sleep now with a smile on my face, I wish I could do the same as the cat thou...that is to sleep many many hours and purring nicely, what else did you think?

    Yeah that is a mindboggling mystery, how to get your ideas and thoughts heard and implemented, Maybe people here on the forums is screaming out to low and too few are screaming out loud, One mosquito biting newteks skin is easy to swift away, but a whole bunch buzzing ..that must be dealt with.

    Iīll try to raise my voice and forward feature requests too when Ivé mapped it down a little more graphicly.

    Michael
    I concur! HV's used to make good rocks too, but now I get lots of artifacts on the ground.
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