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Thread: hair growth

  1. #1

    hair growth

    i'm trying to have hair grow, like when a person transforms into a werewolf. any help would be appreciated.
    a_joke

  2. #2
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Are you using FFX for this? The easiest way is to apply an Envelope to the Scale property. This gives change in length. For fancier growth FX you can envelope the other FFX properties but, IMO, if you're going down that path you should do it with nodes.

    G.

  3. #3
    i wanted to use sasquatch (it's a better renderer). I really haven't used nodes. i see lightwave has videos on it, but can you suggest a book, video or tutorial out there that might be a little more in depth.
    a_joke

  4. #4
    thanks for the quick reply.
    sorry.
    a_joke

  5. #5
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    FWIW, you might want to wait until Lightwave 10.1 comes out because this is actually very easy to do and FFX has been significantly improved in this version. (I tried this after I posted last night and it's a fun effect, and it literally took a couple of seconds to set up.)

    However, if you can't wait for 10.1 to come out, you can certainly do this with Sasquatch by using the Length A button; this is the equivalent for Sasquatch.

    As for comparison between Sas and FFX, I would have completely agreed with you earlier this year but IMO, FFX in 10.1 is quite useable for production now and there are some compelling advantages to using it as an alternative to Sasquatch. (That's about all I can say until it's offically released.)

    Whichever method you choose, good luck!

    G.

  6. #6
    Registered User Dreamcube017's Avatar
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    Can you see FFX in VPR in 10.1?
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  8. #8
    Registered User Dreamcube017's Avatar
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    Well since it's out now guess we'll find out how much more epic VPR got. They don't seem to have a video showing off the new things VPR can do hm.
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  9. #9
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    I guess it's okay to talk about 10.1 now.

    I've been focused on the new FFX for several weeks now, mainly evaluating it for use at work but also for possible use in my own projects. For 10.1, Newtek added new features to FFX like LWDynamics, which allows the Layout generated guide chains to work directly with ClothFX (i.e., no Metalink required.) That's a huge deal since this essentially gives you 'built in' dynamics. Which reminds me, ClothFX got some updates too, including two presets for hair.

    For me, the most important new feature in FFX is that it now renders motion vectors. This solves the problem with motion blur added as a post process, something you can't do with Sasquatch. Because we do all our motion blur as a post process, this feature alone has us looking forward to using FFX on our next hair/fur job.

    Now, none of that means anything if the render quality of the hair/fur renders isn't good, but in my testing I found FFX is now pretty stable and it looks really good in motion on a rigged character. With proper settings, render time is reasonable and shadows no longer flicker.

    The interactive Brush system in Layout is much improved too; settings seem to persist more reliably from session to session. Unfortunately though there is still no way to save guides settings as a separate file. This was requested by many testers so hopefully it will appear in the next beta cycle. In the meantime, however, you can save the Layout generated guides as a 'real' .lwo 2-point polygon chain object so you don't have to worry about losing the settngs as much. This object can also be imported to Modeler for additional editing or you can apply dynamic effects to it using traditional ClothFX techniques (in other words, the same process used for long hair with Sasquatch.)

    BTW, if you use .mdd for CA, you'll probably want to save the guides as an .lwo and use the more traditional application of ClothFX. This was the only way I could get dynamics to work with the guides on an .mdd animated creature. However, if your character is animated with bones, the direct LWDynamics approach seems to works perfectly.

    As for FFX showing up in VPR, this works but I"m not 100% convinced that this is a practical method for tweaking hair and fur settings yet. IMO, it's still faster to use F9 and limited region. Seeing FFX in VPR is pretty cool though, and I'm sure the visual feedback will get faster as they continue to tweak VPR and FFX.

    Hope that was a little more informative. I know Lino is supposed to be posting videos of the new FFX in action. I'll try to post some of my own videos soon as I find the time.

    Right now I'm more focused on using the new LW 10.1 Skin Material shader, which looks amazingly good, renders insanely fast on my modest quad core system even with radiosity enabled, and the images are nearly identical between VPR and F9. (VPR is a little grainier than F9, but this is acceptable since it's just a preview.)

    G.

  10. #10
    Super Member dblincoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlaw View Post
    I guess it's okay to talk about 10.1 now.

    I've been focused on the new FFX for several weeks now, mainly evaluating it for use at work but also for possible use in my own projects. For 10.1, Newtek added new features to FFX like LWDynamics, which allows the Layout generated guide chains to work directly with ClothFX (i.e., no Metalink required.) That's a huge deal since this essentially gives you 'built in' dynamics. Which reminds me, ClothFX got some updates too, including two presets for hair.

    For me, the most important new feature in FFX is that it now renders motion vectors. This solves the problem with motion blur added as a post process, something you can't do with Sasquatch. Because we do all our motion blur as a post process, this feature alone has us looking forward to using FFX on our next hair/fur job.

    Now, none of that means anything if the render quality of the hair/fur renders isn't good, but in my testing I found FFX is now pretty stable and it looks really good in motion on a rigged character. With proper settings, render time is reasonable and shadows no longer flicker.

    The interactive Brush system in Layout is much improved too; settings seem to persist more reliably from session to session. Unfortunately though there is still no way to save guides settings as a separate file. This was requested by many testers so hopefully it will appear in the next beta cycle. In the meantime, however, you can save the Layout generated guides as a 'real' .lwo 2-point polygon chain object so you don't have to worry about losing the settngs as much. This object can also be imported to Modeler for additional editing or you can apply dynamic effects to it using traditional ClothFX techniques (in other words, the same process used for long hair with Sasquatch.)

    BTW, if you use .mdd for CA, you'll probably want to save the guides as an .lwo and use the more traditional application of ClothFX. This was the only way I could get dynamics to work with the guides on an .mdd animated creature. However, if your character is animated with bones, the direct LWDynamics approach seems to works perfectly.

    As for FFX showing up in VPR, this works but I"m not 100% convinced that this is a practical method for tweaking hair and fur settings yet. IMO, it's still faster to use F9 and limited region. Seeing FFX in VPR is pretty cool though, and I'm sure the visual feedback will get faster as they continue to tweak VPR and FFX.

    Hope that was a little more informative. I know Lino is supposed to be posting videos of the new FFX in action. I'll try to post some of my own videos soon as I find the time.

    Right now I'm more focused on using the new LW 10.1 Skin Material shader, which looks amazingly good, renders insanely fast on my modest quad core system even with radiosity enabled, and the images are nearly identical between VPR and F9. (VPR is a little grainier than F9, but this is acceptable since it's just a preview.)

    G.
    Would be interested in seeing some of your work/test with the skin shader. Perhaps renders with and without the shader. Interesting!

  11. #11
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Sure. Most of my 10.1 Skin testing was done using characters for our Brudders short film to see how 'toy like' I could make them look. Nothing fancy but the results were fun and the render times were pretty fast. (With F9 About 18.5 seconds for a 640 x 480 frame; with VPR about 4 - 5 seconds per frame.) I'll try to post some of the still image tests here this evening.

    I ran some motion tests too but because I used minimal quality settings to see immediate results, it would be disservice to 10.1 to show these tests publicly (too noisy.) If I get a chance to tweak and re-render a better version of a motion test this week, I'll post it to our LGD Test Tube channel and let you know when that happens.

    G.

  12. #12
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Getting back to the original topic, one of the reasons I recommend FFX for this effect is that you can see the hair growing effect directly in Layout's OpenGL without rendering anything. This can speed up the setup process enormously.

    Now that test I can post tonight.

    G.

  13. #13
    Super Member dblincoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greenlaw View Post
    Sure. Most of my 10.1 Skin testing was done using characters for our Brudders short film to see how 'toy like' I could make them look. Nothing fancy but the results were fun and the render times were pretty fast. (With F9 About 18.5 seconds for a 640 x 480 frame; with VPR about 4 - 5 seconds per frame.) I'll try to post some of the still image tests here this evening.

    I ran some motion tests too but because I used minimal quality settings to see immediate results, it would be disservice to 10.1 to show these tests publicly (too noisy.) If I get a chance to tweak and re-render a better version of a motion test this week, I'll post it to our LGD Test Tube channel and let you know when that happens.

    G.
    Sounds great! Thanks!

  14. #14
    Eat your peas. Greenlaw's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dblincoe View Post
    Would be interested in seeing some of your work/test with the skin shader. Perhaps renders with and without the shader. Interesting!
    Here ya go:

    Brudders 10.1 Skin Mat Test

    G.

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