Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 30

Thread: Top 10 Like and Dislikes about the XD850

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    north logan
    Posts
    318

    Top 10 Like and Dislikes about the XD850

    Overall Unfortunately I can only give the XD850 a 7 out of 10. I have done about 60 hours of live shooting with it now. I did a 3 day event in Denver, a couple football games, and a Richard Marx concert in Park City Utah. Here is my list

    Likes mostly in order:
    1. Embedded SDI audio (This rocks!) We can do amazing interviews on the field with football. and bring in an emergency mic at any time if needed.
    2. All the camera angles on Screen! Love it.
    3. Hasn't frozen once in LIVE Mode.
    4. Very Very easy streaming process (Once it's setup- just one button)
    5. LC11 handle bar much better than old- very smooth
    6. Proc and Green screen setting much easier and intuitive
    7. Multi-formats / aspect ratios in one switcher. They mesh very well
    8. Separate Aux out for an ISO recording or clean program
    9. Organized projects (You pick the desired format and it organizes it for you).
    10. Livetext and iVGA much easier pull thru system than VT5
    bonus: I like the FTB button!


    Now for the 10 dislikes. I've been a VT user VT3 thru 5 for 6 years now- so I think Newtek.... I understand the Tricasters are a different animal but maybe I'll find solutions for some of the following.

    1. LIP SYNC! Come on-- Never a problem in the past with any Newtek stuff! Really??? I've tried 480/720(30/24p)1080i and all others. Plain and simple the lip sync is off. Now I have hours of matching to do. Like I say I've ran switchers for years and years so if it is something I am doing wrong- then the system isn't very intuitive. One redeeming factor though- it is consistently off and not a gradually worse and worse situation, which would be a real nightmare.

    2. Speed Edit can't even render the same flavor of .mpg that the live records. It has those pesky transports/programs and mpg that always end with .m2t/m2p extensions and don't transport very well to other editing platforms.

    3. The two screens switch occasionally. I thought maybe it was a keyboard shortcut- but one time while I was just sitting in front of the XD850 - the two monitors changed screens right in front of me. I've learned if this happens just physically move the screens- don't change the wires. It's happened to me 4 times now.

    4. Fades Suck... Well at least what I was used to on the VT5. Sure we asked for a solution, but I didn't realize it would be a $13k solution

    5. XD850 now a Legacy unit- I only bought it 2 months ago!

    6. iVGA freezes hiccups and drops out. Never had any of that with VT5

    7. DSK system(Like/Dislike) I like two, but they are confusing to operate.

    8. Speed Edit has frozen numerous times on me(Even in plain 480i editing). Not impressed.

    9. Sound thru headphones doesn't really reflect actual program audio.

    10. I'm pretty nervous about the heat dissipation (It gets extremely hot!)

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Honolulu
    Posts
    602
    Here is another thing to be aware of. If you are doing extremely long Live Stream events you should cycle the stream once every 12 hours. Because no mater what I do the lipsync gets progressively worse over time even on multiple clips playing in replay on the DDR.

    At CES we cycled once every 12 hours and it seemed to keep things aligned better on the live stream.

    But I agree consistent 3-4 frames of the lips not syncing. It is so consistent that every time I load a clip into speededit the first thing I do is go to the narrowest editing view grab the audio and slide it 4 frames to the right.

    There will be some in here that claim you cannot see the delta but if my untrained eyes/ears can see it so can the audience that is listening and watching when it gets put up on the web..

    They will forgive you on a live stream but a edited clip has to be close to perfect.


    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post

    1. LIP SYNC! Come on-- Never a problem in the past with any Newtek stuff! Really??? I've tried 480/720(30/24p)1080i and all others. Plain and simple the lip sync is off. Now I have hours of matching to do. Like I say I've ran switchers for years and years so if it is something I am doing wrong- then the system isn't very intuitive. One redeeming factor though- it is consistently off and not a gradually worse and worse situation, which would be a real nightmare.

  3. #3
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,376
    Quote Originally Posted by GeekNews View Post
    There will be some in here that claim you cannot see the delta but if my untrained eyes/ears can see it so can the audience that is listening and watching when it gets put up on the web.
    I've only seem this reported in here, and it was generally indicated that the offset was consistently 2 frames - but I'm not 100% sure whether you mean this is seen on Flash output or live?

    FME does seem to drift a bit over long periods, but if you mean live, that's completely unacceptable. I'm planning on doing some testing to see if I can repro this, and I'm sure I won't be the only one. Any additional info would be welcome.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  4. #4
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,376
    Hope you don't mind if I make a few remarks on your list ... former VT user (and reseller) myself, so I know where you're coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    1. LIP SYNC! Come on-- Never a problem in the past with any Newtek stuff! Really???
    Agreed that there should definitely be no problem. There's another concurrent thread on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    2. Speed Edit can't even render the same flavor of .mpg that the live records. It has those pesky transports/programs and mpg that always end with .m2t/m2p extensions and don't transport very well to other editing platforms.
    SE's current render options are identical to the standalone version. I am under the impressions that a) some other apps pretty much suck at MPEG2 - most MPEG-2, but that b) the SE versions are more broadly supported by third parties than TriCaster's High Profile variant. HD is something of a pain when it comes to formats. Personally, I sometimes wish we could all revert to uncompressed. That would have some advantages, but you'd need some serious horsepower to handle it in post.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    3. The two screens switch occasionally
    Wow, that's completely weird. In two years of constant running of XD's with dual monitors, I've never seen it. Anyone else here run into this? Ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    4. Fades Suck... Well at least what I was used to on the VT5. Sure we asked for a solution, but I didn't realize it would be a $13k solution
    Having been used to VT/TC's DVE's, I can sympathize. Just to give a bit of perspective, though, keep in mind that there was a huge increase in resource demands going to HD. With 850, at any given moment, the system may be called on to display as many as 9 layers of HD. To get full color overlays in your transitions (as implemented in EXTREME) you're looking at an additional four simultaneous 32bit HD streams. Given that, one has to wonder if 300 could even have been built, and whether we'd rather have an 8 input 850 to offer first, or a 4 input one with full color overlay transitions at a similar cost. Tough call, I think. Thankfully, at least now we can have both.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    5. XD850 now a Legacy unit- I only bought it 2 months ago!
    No, it's not. That's the simple truth. You might view VT, TC100, TC Pro and TC ProFX as legacy units, but in all fairness, you have to stop there.

    As I wrote last Wednesday. "... as much as EXTREME is turning heads, I'm certain we could have simply re-introduced 850 at NAB 2011 - completely unchanged from last year - and still gotten a wildly enthusiastic, over the top response, just as we did in 2010. And I base this on hard facts. Not everyone can or wants to spend the money for EXTREME, regardless of the stunning production value it represents. 850's are still an extremely hot item, and they still outshine everything else on the floor that is remotely in the same realm - 1 year later - by a long shot, all kidding aside.... (snip) ... 850 is a class leader, state of the art, and (thankfully) is improved upon only by our own product."


    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    6. iVGA freezes hiccups and drops out. Never had any of that with VT5
    I see more reports of problems with the Mac version than with iVGA on Windows. Keep in mind that you're likely going to need to amp up your source horsepower a bit for HD.

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    7. DSK system(Like/Dislike) I like two, but they are confusing to operate.
    I'd like to hear how so, but this thread may have a bit too much in it. Could you break this out (perhaps into a feature request) so we could kick it around a bit?

    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    10. I'm pretty nervous about the heat dissipation (It gets extremely hot!)
    The system is doing a lot of work, and work equals heat. Better it be dissipated than not, right? If it's any comfort, I don't think I've seen a single report of overheating yet. Obviously though, as with VT (which basically heated my office - summer and winter), you're going to want to ensure good ventilation.
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  5. #5
    Consultant
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greater Washington, DC Area
    Posts
    1,390
    Hi Steve,

    There is a scenario that will cause the screens to switch. I couldn't figure it out at first and had a round with tech support. I did some R&D and shared with Dan I think it was. I don't remember what the issue was, unfortunately. This was some months ago.

    Colin
    Sandy Audio Visual LLC
    NewTek Certification Testing Center
    Twitter @DCTriCaster

    TriCaster: All Models
    Cameras: Sony HDC-P1, X300

    My opinion, uncensored. The blog at www.sandyaudiovisual.com.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    north logan
    Posts
    318
    I wrote that after a concert in Park City while I was an emotional wreck! I really liked and disliked the 850 that night. But the most important thing is the client was extremely happy with the product and at the end of the day that is what is important.

    I would not have got the gig had I not had the XD850. I got it because they called the dealer and asked specifically who has bought one of these and lives close enough to Park City to do the job.

    At first I thought the lip sync was that production only- because while he was singing it didn't look right. Then I looked at my football interviews and sure enough. Football lip sync isn't too important other than interviews.

    Thanks Steve for the info as always helpful and informative. I was just telling it as I saw it.

  7. #7
    Consultant
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greater Washington, DC Area
    Posts
    1,390
    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    At first I thought the lip sync was that production only- because while he was singing it didn't look right. Then I looked at my football interviews and sure enough. Football lip sync isn't too important other than interviews.
    Your recorded video is out of sync as well? Can't say I've noticed that. Are you talking about your recorded stream, or the MPEG2 recording? How much is your audio lagging behind?
    Sandy Audio Visual LLC
    NewTek Certification Testing Center
    Twitter @DCTriCaster

    TriCaster: All Models
    Cameras: Sony HDC-P1, X300

    My opinion, uncensored. The blog at www.sandyaudiovisual.com.

  8. #8
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    north logan
    Posts
    318
    Candy- if it were the stream, I wouldn't care.

    Yes it is the recorded .mpg file.... I found that the 4 frames to the right was dead on! As soon as I did that - lip sync was perfect. I guess if you are planning on editing anyways then you just have to remember that. The problem with my productions is I dump them on a hard drive and then import them directly into our playback machine at the station for broadcast. I don't have time to re-render after.

    I'm assuming that it has to do with the analog audio and the Digital SDI. SDI video has to be compressed then packed into data then uncompressed into the system all while the audio just flows through. I would bet that one using the AES audio wouldn't have the problem(Do you know anyone that uses AES from sound mixers?)

  9. #9
    Consultant
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greater Washington, DC Area
    Posts
    1,390
    Quote Originally Posted by lvsoule View Post
    I found that the 4 frames to the right was dead on!
    Are you moving the video or the audio 4 frames to the right?
    Sandy Audio Visual LLC
    NewTek Certification Testing Center
    Twitter @DCTriCaster

    TriCaster: All Models
    Cameras: Sony HDC-P1, X300

    My opinion, uncensored. The blog at www.sandyaudiovisual.com.

  10. #10
    Registered User digiview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Encounter Bay SA
    Posts
    369
    I have just returned from a gig with the XD850, and I also have had my monitor switch off then come back on for no apparent reason, the signal was lost for about 5sec. Until now I have chasing cable connections or monitor faults but all appear ok no amount of movement is causing the signal to dropout. I have two 27” Dell’s and it only happens when they are attached to the XD850, this happens very intermittently.

    The other problem I have encountered was while playing back clips in DDR1 & 2 I got audio interference coming through the DDR channel that sounded like the cell call signal from a mobile radio. When this happened the first time I checked all personal at the OP’s desk had the cell phones switched off. This happened again on another three occasions over the next four hours. I checked with hospitality at the venue and yes they along with security where using Motorola Radios for communications. Has anyone else had this problem it's worry to have this happen during a presentation.
    The other area of concern is been able to quickly adjust the audio levels during a presentation. It would be better if the audio mixers internal and external could be on one monitor so you can get to them.

    Thanks

  11. #11
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    The stars at night are big and bright
    Posts
    19,376
    Quote Originally Posted by digiview View Post
    The other problem I have encountered was while playing back clips in DDR1 & 2 I got audio interference coming through the DDR channel that sounded like the cell call signal from a mobile radio
    Odd that it would appear on the DDR. Cel phones can certainly be problematic for audio gear, but this sort of thing is generally much more likely to be picked up by external cabling. You're not, perhaps, saying it can be heard in clips recorded at the event when played back in the DDR, are you? That would be a different thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by digiview View Post
    It would be better if the audio mixers internal and external could be on one monitor so you can get to them.
    Interesting. Would you sacrifice your Multiview for audio purposes?
    --
    Regards, Steve
    Forum Moderator
    ("You've got to ask yourself one question ... 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, spammer?")

  12. #12
    Consultant
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greater Washington, DC Area
    Posts
    1,390
    Quote Originally Posted by digiview View Post
    The other problem I have encountered was while playing back clips in DDR1 & 2 I got audio interference coming through the DDR channel that sounded like the cell call signal from a mobile radio.
    The only thing I can think of is that this got picked up by external cabling when recording the DDR clip.

    I couldn't find a good recording of the sound online, but it should sound like this but go for a longer time, and the pulses are more pronounced like Morse code, right? http://www.hark.com/clips/wrckggjlnr...e-interference

    Neutrik sells connectors that are immune to this particular type of GSM interference. http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/2...oductlist.aspx
    Sandy Audio Visual LLC
    NewTek Certification Testing Center
    Twitter @DCTriCaster

    TriCaster: All Models
    Cameras: Sony HDC-P1, X300

    My opinion, uncensored. The blog at www.sandyaudiovisual.com.

  13. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    north logan
    Posts
    318
    Sandy- it was move the audio 4 frames to the right... However I have found that to be the case on High Def 720p at 24 frames. However When it is SD 480i SDI then it is only 2 frames to the right. I assume it has to do with packing and unpacking more data for the HD. I haven't checked the 1080i yet.

    One redeeming factor thought- that bumps me up to 7.5 is the fact that SpeedEdit(even though it crashes occasionally) is unbelievably fast- I mean I've never seen anything render that fast b4. So rendering out the lip sync fixes for about an 8 hour gig only took about an hour- when I rendered it to SpeedHQ. Unfortunately that is proprietary but it worked for what I'm trying to accomplish. I would be more happy with a good portable .mpg rendering codec.

  14. #14
    Consultant
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Greater Washington, DC Area
    Posts
    1,390
    So your audio is ahead of your video by 2 frames in SD and by 4 frames in HD.

    Interesting.

    Truly wish I wasn't swamped and had the time to independently check this out myself. Maybe it'll be a quiet weekend. Hopefully others will provide input and it can be determined whether the issue is isolated to your machine.
    Sandy Audio Visual LLC
    NewTek Certification Testing Center
    Twitter @DCTriCaster

    TriCaster: All Models
    Cameras: Sony HDC-P1, X300

    My opinion, uncensored. The blog at www.sandyaudiovisual.com.

  15. #15
    LiveSet Making Machine joseburgos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    3,333

    Question

    Just to add to this, I have it 2 frames off even when recorded externally which tells me the 850 is recording internally what it is outputting.
    What is strange is that this was not noticed during the live production?
    Jose Burgos
    NewTek Certified Trainer
    NewTek Certified on all TriCaster's
    NewTek Training & Certification Testing
    www.burgosfx.com
    FaceBook
    Twitter @NYTriCaster

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •