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  1. #661
    creacon
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    You know what's funny about that? I recall having a version of HV long time ago where you had control over the blending, it was even possible to have 2 blobs connecting straight. That setting magically disappeared in HV 3.0 or 2.0.

    As far as the rendering times are concerned that is not so much of a problem anymore, the fact that you can't use the regular shading is, if you want to have a good water look you need absorption, and that's not available to HV.

    creacon

    Quote Originally Posted by Gregg "T.Rex" View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean about calculation times for HVs, but render times can be very high, especially when using anything ray-trace related with HVs, but that's not the problem...

    The one and only problem HVs are suffer and what makes them inappropriate for any type of realistic water-type liquid rendering, is the way they blend to each other, with that dreaded, blobby metaball engine NewTek is using...

  2. #662
    The one and only problem HVs are suffer and what makes them inappropriate for any type of realistic water-type liquid rendering, is the way they blend to each other, with that dreaded, blobby metaball engine NewTek is using...
    Yes and this is most likely not more than a few lines of code and I have been begging NT for this for almost a decade now. It should be a no brainer/ low hanging fruit.
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  3. #663
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Low Hanging Fruit. I like your cliches Elmar because they aren't cliche to me. =)
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  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Elmar Moelzer View Post
    Yes and this is most likely not more than a few lines of code and I have been begging NT for this for almost a decade now. It should be a no brainer/ low hanging fruit.
    Sadly there is lot of that "low hanging fruit" for what we "beg" years and years and nothing .
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  5. #665
    Just awesome Steve, loving the latest demos, can you make it possible to see a page with links to all the current demos?

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  6. #666
    Lightwave junkie stevecullum's Avatar
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    Yes and this is most likely not more than a few lines of code and I have been begging NT for this for almost a decade now. It should be a no brainer/ low hanging fruit.
    Hey Elmar, your a voxel expert - can you repurpose a bit of your code to create a blending voxel shader? I remember years ago, Real Flow had a liquid shader for Lightwave that worked ok for this kind of thing, so it must be doable...
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  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by stevecullum View Post
    I remember years ago, Real Flow had a liquid shader for Lightwave that worked ok for this kind of thing, so it must be doable...
    The infamous "Next Limit Flow Tracer".....
    What an umber-great plugin...
    Too bad, NL stopped the support on this, with the release of Real Flow 4...

  8. #668
    Hey Elmar, your a voxel expert - can you repurpose a bit of your code to create a blending voxel shader? I remember years ago, Real Flow had a liquid shader for Lightwave that worked ok for this kind of thing, so it must be doable...
    Quite honestly, I would much rather that NewTek hired us or someone with experience in this matter to update HVs. It is IMHO a bad idea to introduce a completely new, independent and unconnected system into LW, especially if the old system still needs to remain in place, if all that needs to be done is update the existing one. To much redundancy in both the work performed and the resulting software. I do admit though that having to wait for NT to react here is like waiting for Godot (or the Laurel and Hardy sketch that inspired it), but with more tragedy and less comedy
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  9. #669
    Profesor Pixel Poo Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    ...why is HVs for liquids a joke?
    because of the rendertime, or calculation time, or because of how the HVs look in the final render?
    PFX self collision is extremely slow for particle amounts necessary to do anything practical. Last time I tried in LW93, it took 3 hours just to calculate this- Water_04c.mov

    Quote Originally Posted by Elmar Moelzer View Post
    Yes and this is most likely not more than a few lines of code and I have been begging NT for this for almost a decade now. It should be a no brainer/ low hanging fruit.
    *ugh* A simple, farkin 'distance between particle' grad has to be the easiest update that would make the biggest difference anywhere in LW. The particle data is already there. HV dev has been stagnant for so many years now. This would go a long way to making liquid, smoke, fire so much more convincing.

    This is the same particle sim rendered with LW's 'ball generator' on the left and RealFlow on the right, both with the same volume size- http://www.box.net/shared/static/ietmqz76vh.mov

    Some distance between particle grads were introduced awhile back but they dont work, and were not in the blend and size channels where they are most needed. ex scene- http://www.box.net/shared/static/m1sqicrwo4.zip Its so cheap and annoying when they throw half-baked features in just to add to a new version's feature list (like dynamic parenting, collada or HV deform). Either get it working right or dont bother.

    What's really goofy is when features get worse, like you could get a much better liquid blend in LW5.6, and you could individually set each HV item's alpha channel to black or white. Now you have to make special scenes for each item to fake it with RGB passes. I miss the cute little hyper texture speed thumb preview in 5.6 as well.
    Last edited by Mr Rid; 07-29-2011 at 10:26 PM.
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  10. #670
    Super Member geo_n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    PFX self collision is extremely slow for particle amounts necessary to do anything practical. Last time I tried in LW93, it took 3 hours just to calculate this- Water_04c.mov



    *ugh* A simple, farkin 'distance between particle' grad has to be the easiest update that would make the biggest difference anywhere in LW. The particle data is already there. HV dev has been stagnant for so many years now. This would go a long way to making liquid, smoke, fire so much more convincing.

    This is the same particle sim rendered with LW's 'ball generator' on the left and RealFlow on the right, both with the same volume size- http://www.box.net/shared/static/ietmqz76vh.mov

    Some distance between particle grads were introduced awhile back but they dont work, and were not in the blend and size channels where they are most needed. ex scene- http://www.box.net/shared/static/m1sqicrwo4.zip Its so cheap and annoying when they throw half-baked features in just to add to a new version's feature list (like dynamic parenting, collada or HV deform). Either get it working right or dont bother.

    What's really goofy is when features get worse, like you could get a much better liquid blend in LW5.6, and you could individually set each HV item's alpha channel to black or white. Now you have to make special scenes for each item to fake it with RGB passes. I miss the cute little hyper texture speed thumb preview in 5.6 as well.
    Maybe they don't have the original programmer who did the hv in lw. Maybe an official request in hc forum would be helpful.

  11. #671
    i have showed MR. RID BUBBLE generator v3 video to one of NT engineers and he commented me that this fix isn't big one... i just wonder why it isn't done already? maybe they want to make hv4 ?
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  12. #672
    LightJustice Panikos's Avatar
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    There are 2 kind of people. Those who have pistols in their pockets and those who dig. In order for Newtek to get digging, you have to use pistols

  13. #673
    Worms no more! Free fun! Dodgy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    *ugh* A simple, farkin 'distance between particle' grad has to be the easiest update that would make the biggest difference anywhere in LW.
    Dpont has a node which does this, the particle info node has a between output. The picture below uses it passed through a gradient to control the size of each HV. But I thought I'd mentioned this before?
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  14. #674
    Lightwave junkie stevecullum's Avatar
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    Dpont has a node which does this, the particle info node has a between output. The picture below uses it passed through a gradient to control the size of each HV. But I thought I'd mentioned this before?
    Thats useful to know. I was under the impression that a lot of those particle outputs from his node didn't work...will have to try this!
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  15. #675
    Super Member omichon's Avatar
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    Let's go back on Bounce topic if you don't mind.
    I am really amazed watching your demos, Steve, specially regarding the setup aspect.
    Now I am wondering what will happen, if you change the coins from the filling jar demo from rigid to cloth body.
    Will the coins be bent on the jar wall or folded on themselves ? Could we expect a good looking simulation with so many cloth objects on a confined volume ?
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