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Thread: can Mudbox morphs be used in Lightwave?

  1. #16
    Dance Commander WCameron's Avatar
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    well, not surprising to probably anybody, if you ad a Division Level in Mudbox and try to apply that to a lower division level in lightwave Lightwave 8.5 crashes.

    tried playing with swapping plugins over, and theres something more fundamentally wrong
    in the 9 and up series. the two main plugins that would seem to concern us are: s3dexport.p (obj importer and exporter) and vmhelp.p (bkg to morph). swaping those into
    9.6 (surprisingly doesn't cause any crashes!) does not fix the issue. so something else is probably happening under the hood...

    anywho, I think I'm done for now. But it does work with 8.5. you'll have to ramp up your
    polygon division level on your base mesh depending on how detailed you need to get.
    I'd suggest loading a base mesh into mudbox and playing around with adding levels in there for the detail you want. so say if you add 2 levels in mudbox, subdivide the base mesh in Lightwave twice and work off that.

    this is all for straight morphs too. you could do Normal and Displacement maps as well if it was for something like a Bruise forming or whatever. Then you'd just have to export the proper maps from MB and apply them to the mesh in LW via Nodes. etc.

    - Will.
    "All those with Psychokinesis, raise my hand."
    - The Doctor.
    The Room With No Doors
    by Kate Orman.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCameron View Post
    What kind of morphs specifically are you talking about. For the most part
    I'm thinking the basic stuff like Blinking, smiling, mouth phoneme shapes stuff like that.

    - Will.
    The character will be singing opera - as well as "Some Enchanted Evening", so I'm interested in facial morphs and especially mouth morphs.

    I'm not a graphic pro like most of the folks here, so I'm operating way beyond my skill level!

    Quote Originally Posted by WCameron View Post
    tried playing with swapping plugins over, and theres something more fundamentally wrong
    in the 9 and up series.
    - Will.
    Will - from what I'm hearing from you, morphs from Mudbox 2011 and from Modo 501 aren't working with LW 9.6 or 10?

    I don't have 8.5 (started with 9.x).

    This is a bit discouraging!

    You mentioned a PM on Modo? If you discover anything, please do PM me. I ordered Dan Ablan's Modo 501 tutorial on Monday that covered sculpting - hoping that it would be of use (just haven't had time to get up to speed on Modo yet).

    No one responded to my query on the Luxology forum (much less friendly than Newtek's forum!!!)

    BTW - you sound a bit like me in that I kept hammering at a 3D Coat problem last night.

    After putting in a certain amount of time without actually solving a problem, it's very hard to stop!!!

    I just want to keep going and going until I have a solution. no matter what the cost or how much time it takes!!!!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Suggestion...

    Take the song file you plan on using into TAFA and use the Mr. Cool character and practice using just the morphs that Timothy made - see how close you can come to getting the look you want. I think you will be surprised at how well it will look if you take your time learning how TAFA works. One of the things Timothy mentions in his various tutorials - probably also in the TAFA tutorials - is that less is more. If you hit every single point in the song with a morph it won't end up looking as good as if you were using fewer morphs. Very much like when you speak the end of one word often moves into the beginning of the next word.
    Yes, I noticed that he used just a few morphs in the tutorials, and initially that surprised me.

    I wish he would re-do some of the tutorials (some are very low quality), as they were made back when monitors and resolution were rather limited.

    What's your opinion on using TAFA vs RHiggit Pro's facial morphs? Will TAFA make it a lot easier to match the morphs to the voices?

    One thing about TAFA is that, it's great if you are matching a face to a vocal track, but ... what if you are matching facial expressions to how the character is interacting in the scene (not saying anything)?

    How would I deal with that, where there would be no clues about what is going on in the scene, no vocals to match the face to?

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    Y This is probably the one main reason I'm still considering facial mocap rather than using TAFA.
    Yes, the rabbit hole keeps getting deeper and deeper.

    Have you looked at:

    http://www.di-o-matic.com/products/Software/Maskarad/

    I've got a friend using 3ds who seems to really like their facial animation studio (they have a Windows version that will work with Lightwave).

    http://www.di-o-matic.com/products/p.../FacialStudio/

    Their demos certainly seem very polished and impressive?

    Of course he thinks I should just learn 3ds and their CAT animation system, but ... wow, that's like switching from English to French, massive learning curve where I'd be back to square zero and not how to do anything. There are probably 20 different 'you can't get there from here" issues with 3ds I don't know about that make Lighwave's issues seem like child play. But, the interoperability is certainly tempting, and the movies they used those tools on is an impressive list.

  5. #20
    Dance Commander WCameron's Avatar
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    Modo 501 does work. and I'd assume 401 and 301. But if you have Modo 501 it'd be easier just to use that and make your morphs.
    I kinda think using Mudbox to make the morphs may be overkill, actually. if you can try and find the book Stop Staring ( http://www.amazon.com/Stop-Staring-F...2920581&sr=8-1 ) the sections on phoneme set up are very informative.

    I've heard nothing but good things about TAFA, although I dont have it and havent used it first hand.

    - Will.
    "All those with Psychokinesis, raise my hand."
    - The Doctor.
    The Room With No Doors
    by Kate Orman.

  6. #21
    Dance Commander WCameron's Avatar
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    Doh! I can be so dense sometimes, I had no idea this was all realted to the Elmer Fudd thread!
    Doh! Ok, now I have a slightly better understanding of the background. heh.

    - Will.
    "All those with Psychokinesis, raise my hand."
    - The Doctor.
    The Room With No Doors
    by Kate Orman.

  7. #22
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    One issue I'm concerned about is UVs.

    Is it ok to have a few UV textures per model?

    How many are too many, and what about the size of the texture maps.

    Assuming a 64 bit Lightwave on a fast box with a lot of RAM, should I have any concerns?

    Also, when I finally get him textured and ready to animate, should I combine the different layers (maybe except the head) - or leave them as separate layers parented to a null?

    Should the breast plate be on a separate layer for some reason (like issues with the body poking thru the breastplate)?

    I guess if I want to dress him in something else for a different scene, having the clothing separate might be a good thing?

    Thanks!

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalodon View Post
    If you've got a closeup on his lips, your texture map is 1k x 1k and your rendering resolution is 1920x1080... your final rendering will probably show individual pixels.
    His neck fits just underneath the shirt with just one ring of polys in the neck going under the shirt before the neck ends.

    Hopefully, due to this, I'll be able to make the head higher resolution as it won't be attached.

    And as you point out, I'd better have it at high resolution for 1920 x 1080 closeups!

    I just got the head into Mudbox using OBJ (for some reason, the layer names didn't make it), so I'm heading down the path to making all this happen!

    Thanks!

  9. #24
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    I've had a bit of progress with generating a morph in Mudbox (thanks to Will).

    I exported the Mudbox object with the morph layer set to 100% to FBX (after setting Mudbox: Windows-> Preference -> Export Layers as Blendshapes)

    I brought it into Modo and saved it from Modo in LWO format.

    When I used the morph in Lightwave, it is:

    1. Going in the wrong direction (in vs out), so if I go negative, it almost works.

    2. Moving 3 points, whereas I was only moving a single point when I created the morph in Mudbox 2011.

    3. Moving the points a lot farther at -100% in Lightwave than they move in Mudbox.

    -10% seems to move them about the same amount and roughly the same direction in Lighwave as the 100% morph in Mudbox (but, it's moving 3 points, not a single point).

    Very strange, but it ALMOST works which is cool!

  10. #25
    Dance Commander WCameron's Avatar
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    yeah i was having major issues with it, it appears to move a limited number of points
    to 0,0,0. I think this has something to do with the UVMaps perhaps. 2012 has a VERY NICE new feature where it will create UV's for you, and tell you what errors there are in your own when you first load in an object. It does create single poly atlas UV's but for deforms and in app painting thats fine.

    - Will.
    "All those with Psychokinesis, raise my hand."
    - The Doctor.
    The Room With No Doors
    by Kate Orman.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WCameron View Post
    yeah i was having major issues with it, it appears to move a limited number of points
    to 0,0,0. I think this has something to do with the UVMaps perhaps. 2012 has a VERY NICE new feature where it will create UV's for you, and tell you what errors there are in your own when you first load in an object. It does create single poly atlas UV's but for deforms and in app painting thats fine.

    - Will.
    I don't have Mudbox 2012, but hope to upgrade soon from 2011. Can you try it with 2012?

    I found an interesting thread where he creates morphs in an older version of Mudbox, uses Modo in some fashion, and renders in Lightwave. I'm signing up for Mudbox hub and will try to message the guy:

    http://www.mudboxhub.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3673

    If I have existing UVs, and take my head into Mudbox and up the level to 3 (I'm going to try to use the model in Fusion with Cageman's technique for animating FBX characters, and Fusion apparently won't sub-d an FBX mesh), will the UVs still work?

    If UV maps associated with points in the geometry, there are going to be a whole lot more points and polys if I go to level 3, so I may need to take it back into 3D Coat to create UVs (as I've only got Mudbox 2011).

    I'm hoping that I can use this plug-in http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96821 to bake out some Lightwave node surfaces, but texture maps will need UVs, I think?

    Getting all these programs to work together is certainly a challenge!

  12. #27
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    One thing I've come to realize is that if you are creating morphs for a low poly model, at least in Mudbox, there's no way to view the model at sub-d level 3 while you are editing - so you can get a clear idea of how it will look.

    Anyone have a way around this problem?

    This would seem very basic, to be able to edit a low poly mesh while displaying it sub-divided? Some folks on the Mudbox forum agreed with me on this.

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