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Thread: A little test: Muscle soft to rigid rig in LW.

  1. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    There are a few things in lightwave I enjoy setting up.
    Skinning a complex character isn't one of them though...
    i tested some skinning using EditFX in this video,
    is it really not possible to save an endomorph in LW96/Layout ?
    when i 'save' the endomorph in Layout, nothing happens, it does not save :/
    (edit: ok, i was told by a bird that i also had to save the lwo itself in Layout in order to make it work)

    the work-around is to save out a transformed object,
    and then convert it to an endomorph (using BkgToMorph) in Modeler

    (sorry 'bout the Mickey Mouse voice)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC0yhHOoFcw
    Last edited by erikals; 06-23-2010 at 08:01 PM.
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  2. #17
    an easier approach to skinning,
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxVJKTsBwTc
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  3. #18
    Worms no more! Free fun! Dodgy's Avatar
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    You can use editfx to generate the morphs, but as soon as say the elbow bends, but the shoulder also bends, the elbow morph doesn't make sense any more.
    That is one thing I'd like to see NT or someone do, a joint morph tool which has a dragnet/magnet tool built in in layout. It can be done I guess, since we have editfx able to edit the mesh, the trickier part is figuring out the transforms for the points.
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  4. #19
    Worms no more! Free fun! Dodgy's Avatar
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    The bone muscle setup to me is about as long as setting up a fake muscle in say maya. You still have to position those and tweak their settings too. In a lot of areas though you can get away with just using the deformation of the mesh without setting up a bone for them, for example the shoulders, stomach and back areas. The main places needing muscle bones are the longer larger single muscle masses.

    As I say, the main thing I think is an obstacle to better CA is the joint morph problem.
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  5. #20
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by erikals View Post
    when i 'save' the endomorph in Layout, nothing happens, it does not save :/
    It does save... but its only saved in some sorta "cache" in layout... to save it to the actual object you then need to "save object/all objects"... then reload the mesh/scene to update the morfmixer.
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  6. #21
    Goes bump in the night RebelHill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dodgy View Post
    as say the elbow bends, but the shoulder also bends, the elbow morph doesn't make sense any more.
    Im not quite sure Im getting this...

    If theres a corrective morf for the elbow applied... you can swing the shoulder, or any other part of the rig around just fine and that morf holds, relative to the elbow itself no problem.

    The issue that I have always found is corrective morfing at areas like shoulders and hips themselves... 3D joints, where you get crossover of different axis, or rather, you can have the same character pose, achieved through different combinations of the controller axis pose... its allowing morfs to work with things like gimbal fixes thats an issue.

    The 2 bone target based system that I use for my deform rigs helps to get around this for the most part, as it gives predictable axis combinations for a given pose, but theres still the issue of getting these rotations "seen" in the right place to drive the morfs without baking, and of course the pain of sculpting the morfs themselves... either the back and forth modeller<>layout process, or trying to do it all in layout with stuff like editFX, and without the help of stuff like magnet, edgeslide, smooth, etc, etc.
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  7. #22
    luxowaver silviotoledo's Avatar
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    Hey Mike! I'd like to invite you to join us on this thread!

    http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthr...88#post1047688

    May you also borrow your arm or a little part of it for doing tests?
    Silvio Toledo
    Brazil

  8. #23
    luxowaver silviotoledo's Avatar
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    Video - click to view displacement muscles driven by bones
    Silvio Toledo
    Brazil

  9. #24
    It doesn't really look like muscle, as You need some sliding to get a realistic effect.
    For the effect of skin, The displacement needs to be independent of the geometry as I did in this 2004 test.

    http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28601


    However, it's a pain doing this in lw.
    http://www.newtek.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=18493&dateline=130857  4707

  10. #25
    Hey guys, hope something doable comes out of this thread, good initiatives Dodgy and Silvio.

    Pooby, as for sliding...
    What if the Textures slide and not the actual mesh?
    Say you use the UV Morph trick so that the displacements and all texturing slides?

    spirosa's thread and image http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=85719



    It's probably not accurate for the skin slidding, say... in the neck, but maybe one could be focused on getting the mophs for relaxed and strecthed, and getting the UVs to morph so that the textures slide between both. Mesh distribution is the same, only the shape is different.

    Cheers

    Edit: ok if the slided area has hair... forget about texture trick no? You had to slide the hair guides too right?
    Last edited by probiner; 08-14-2010 at 10:20 AM.

  11. #26
    if the area has hair you can use this morph trick...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVMsQ4DV6WA
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  12. #27
    I didn't know this thread was here and so I think some folks who was ignorant of its existence have added tot he tumbleweedness but hats off to all you guys for doing and fighting the fight.

    I hope we can get displacement map driven by mdd files....

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