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Thread: RE: Lightwave CORE.

  1. #286
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    I find some hostile people don't really mean to be ...
    I would add that there is a broad range of expressive styles. What is considered reasonably polite discourse among those of one cultural background will differ from that of another, and even within a single group or even a family there are observable variances. This is why I frequently urge tolerance and sober second thought before reacting. Clearly, text does not convey tone well, and it's easy to misunderstand, find offense where none was intended, or overreact.

    Still, there are limits. Speaking just for myself, normally only a very egregious offense will provoke moderation without an explicit (if often private) prior warning. (I hope it's obvious by my activity here that I can and will hold my ground in a discussion rather than resort to the use of moderation tools simply because some topic was not going 'my way'. And - not to remark on this current situation particularly, but broadly - insults directed at me are generally 'water off a ducks back'. If someone has to stoop to such tactics, I don't have enough respect for their communication skills to actually take insult. However, I am not nearly as inclined to be tolerant when a member is deliberately abusive to another member.
    Last edited by SBowie; 03-12-2010 at 10:14 AM.
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  2. #287
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I would add that there is a broad range of expressive styles. What is considered reasonably polite discourse among those of one cultural background will differ from that of another, and even within a single group or even a family there are observable variances. This is why I frequently urge tolerance and sober second thought before reacting. Clearly, text does not convey tone well, and it's easy to misunderstand, find offense where none was intended, or overreact.

    Still, there are limits. Speaking just for myself, normally only a very egregious offense will provoke moderation without an explicit (if often private) prior warning. (I hope it's obvious by my activity here that I can and will hold my ground in a discussion rather than resort to the use of moderation tools simply because some topic was not going 'my way'. And - not to remark on this current situation particularly, but broadly - insults directed at me are generally 'water off a ducks back'. If someone has to stoop to such tactics, I don't have enough respect for their communication skills to actually take insult. However, I am not nearly as inclined to be tolerant when a member is deliberately abusive to another member.
    The words of a sane man.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  3. #288
    Man, i knew this thread was going to get ugly. tried to stop it earlier
    now people are banned.

    sometimes you just have to ignore people, some people just like
    stiring things up to get a rise out of folks for attention.

    Jin seems to be ok but i think you just have to know how to deal with
    people like him and anyone for that matter.

    Hope we see now that some battles just aren't worth it.

  4. #289
    Registered User Kuzey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    I think you make a couple of good points. Policies should be applied equitably. This said, it's not a perfect system. As I wrote a moment ago, I do think there have been times when tolerance or even simple inattention (mods have lots of other work to do, and even sleep once in awhile) has inadvertently been perceived as 'permissiveness', which is a different thing altogether.

    This, imho, has resulted in a gradual decline of the friendly but open spirit in these forums in recent years. In turn, some individuals have taken this as license to behave badly. Another unfortunate consequence of permissiveness is that the hostile and provocative posture of a few is very off-putting to many, resulting in some (busy pros, for example) simply opting out of the community, and others (newbies, etc.) being afraid to open their mouth for fear of being mocked.

    It seems the time has come to take remedial action. I'm not going to defend every decision, action or omission of moderators, but even if these are not 100% equitable at all times, it seems clear the pendulum had swung too long in the other direction. (Is there anyone here whose mother didn't say at times 'Maybe you really didn't deserve it this time, but if so this is for all the times you got away with it.' Doubtless this will not please everyone, but I suspect the majority will approve.
    I've been on the receiving end of that...it's not nice. Getting banned for a simple outburst...when a warning should have been made is one thing. Seeing someone else get off with a warning, when they do it with malice and when they aren't even in a discussion with you...that's something else.

    But enough about that...in the good old days, the moderators seemed to be more active...making public warnings...either warning people or threatening to close a thread. That usually did the trick.

    Kuzey

  5. #290
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    Quote Originally Posted by jin choung View Post
    it would be.

    if the monitor wasn't finished.

    was announced before they purchased the glass.

    and asked you to pay to help design it.

    you got nothin' but speculation either stevo... cuz unless they TOLD you their MOTIVES, you got zip.

    you can try to spin it so it makes you feel better about your "investment" but you got nothin'.

    but if you have insider info, spill it.

    if not, you're speculation is far less credible than mine. (because according to your rhetorical strategy, simply stating something makes it so.... i love that.)

    : )

    jin
    This is why he got ban, he has been right about core from the beginning and has not back down. He is an apostle of the truth. If you are offended by his way of communicating his gospel then you are probably in the wrong and have yet to see the truth. Like the phoenix, he will resurrect from his vanishment and in time the truth will spread for his logic is correct.

    Amen

  6. #291
    Super Member DBMiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsantiago View Post
    This is why he got ban, he has been right about core from the beginning and has not back down. He is an apostle of the truth. If you are offended by his way of communicating his gospel then you are probably in the wrong and have yet to see the truth. Like the phoenix, he will resurrect from his vanishment and in time the truth will spread for his logic is correct.

    Amen
    Bull... He knows nothing about the Core program and he is offensive.
    I don't know why he has to take that tone as it makes his posts unreadable, whether he makes a good point or not (often not). I was going to say something before but someone had the sense to ban him. I'm glad there is the option to ignore a poster because it saves a lot of time here.
    Mac OS 10.10.5 Yosemite, 2.66 GHz Core 2 duo, 4 GB RAM,ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro

  7. #292
    lol, ok enough drink for you (wsantiago)

    This isn't a soap box for people to get thier "social opinions" across.

    this forum is suposed to be here to help people using the
    newtek products, not your personal blog about your fealings.

    IMHO, if a thread isn't about needing help or a display of the use of
    a newtek product it should not be allowed to be a thread.
    Last edited by VonBon; 03-12-2010 at 03:29 PM.

  8. #293
    NewTek Moderation NTComm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wsantiago View Post
    This is why he got ban, he has been right about core from the beginning and has not back down.
    Two points:

    1) He was banned for refusing to state his points without overt hostility to others.

    2) NewTek forum moderation policies are not debatable.

  9. #294
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    I started this Thread, only because I had a simple question. I don't know why Its getting this way. I personally have Lots of respect for NewTek forum. This forum is designed for all of us to help each other. I love working with Lightwave, and I enjoy Video Tutorials. Specialty Dan Ablan's Tutorials...

    Once Again Thanks For All Your Helps...
    Simon...

  10. #295
    Super Member *Pete*'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonlion View Post
    I started this Thread, only because I had a simple question. I don't know why Its getting this way.
    its the Newtek discussion forum, after all...we share lots of knowledge between us and we share lots of different opinions too...so any thread that has the slightest risk of controversy will risk ending up like this.

    dont let it scare you though...we are all responsible for our actions, its not your fault the thread went the way it went.

    most of the time our discussions, even with disagreements, are very informative and we all come out from it with more knowledge than we had when entering it...but, when it ends up with insults, fighting and general trolling (not pointing fingers at anyone here), it can turn bad.

  11. #296
    Super Member DBMiller's Avatar
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    After my own outburst I feel I should try to answer to your question. Core is not out yet, so tutorials would be of little use outside of the Core forum. But every build is better and more functional than the last, so it's getting closer to the time more can be shown to the public.
    As far as tutorials for LW9.6, since the program will be used for quite some time those lessons are still useful. If you want them, get them. You won't be disappointed since, as far as I'm concerned, any tutorial is useful, even from other programs. They can help you work out how to do the same thing in LW.
    PS: I hope I didn't put you off with my own post.
    DBMiller
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  12. #297
    the escapist zarti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VonBon View Post
    this forum is suposed to be here to help people using the
    newtek products, not your personal blog about your fealings.

    IMHO, if a thread isn't about needing help or a display of the use of
    a newtek product it should not be allowed to be a thread.
    rules mention that, but that isn't applied always.
    so, sometimes yes and sometimes no ...

    i'm not referring here to 'blogs about feelings', or defending Jin.

    just; this is not always true.

  13. #298
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zarti View Post
    so, sometimes yes and sometimes no ...
    It's true that posts that are not directly (or even sometimes indirectly) related to NewTek products are sometimes tolerated, even welcome in certain specific sub-forums. Although the moderation policy states that the forums "are for professional and civil discourse regarding NewTek products by NewTek users", I believe a reasonable interpretation of the entire policy is that this is the forum's primary purpose, not its only one. So, for example, 'general discussion' and 'community' sub-forums are well-suited to broader discussions - a recent movie, a change of employment for a member, your favorite shade of blue ... why not? Some of these would be out of place in a different sub-forum, but about the only moderation that might follow would be to move an off-topic post to a more suitable location.

    Of course, some off-topic posts may bump into other restrictions, such as "controversial subjects such as Religion and Politics", "Comments of an "off color" nature inappropriate for viewing by minors", or perhaps "Promotional messages and material for competing products".

    These prohibitions are not 'not cut and dried', but rather call for some judgment. After all, this is largely a community of artists, and what topic is off-topic for art? Still, there is an undeniable crossover point. For example, it would be one thing to discuss the editing, cinematography, effects, etc., of a movie such as "The DaVinci Code", and quite another to open a debate on the theological points it raises. One side of that line is relevant, the other would inevitably launch a flamewar.

    Likewise, it would not always seem untoward to discuss competing products. Someone might, in a constructive manner, point out ways it compares to a NewTek product (whether favorably or unfavorably doesn't really matter). Someone else might discuss how to achieve a result they've seen in a tutorial for another product; no harm, no foul. But when it becomes apparent that the post is really little more than a thinly veiled "promotional message", moderation action might reasonably be expected.

    So yes - 'sometimes yes, and sometimes no'. The boundaries, though, should be fairly apparent to any reasonable person. This does not mean we are not free to express either dissent or support, criticism or kudos. These are community forums, hosted by NewTek for the benefit of its user community. We are all fellow guests here. If we behave as guests, and treat our fellows and our hosts with even rudimentary courtesy, we are very unlikely to run afoul of moderation policy.
    Last edited by SBowie; 03-13-2010 at 11:02 AM.
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  14. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Pete* View Post
    its the Newtek discussion forum, after all...we share lots of knowledge between us and we share lots of different opinions too...so any thread that has the slightest risk of controversy will risk ending up like this.

    dont let it scare you though...we are all responsible for our actions, its not your fault the thread went the way it went.

    most of the time our discussions, even with disagreements, are very informative and we all come out from it with more knowledge than we had when entering it...but, when it ends up with insults, fighting and general trolling (not pointing fingers at anyone here), it can turn bad.
    Well I just feel bad for those who are Banned.. What are the New Tek Banned Rules. How long they are Banned for ?
    Maybe they were not aware of the Rules.

    Any way I think this Forum Is like a family, so we should all be freinds with each other and try helping each other, and I think thats what NewTek wants.
    Simon.

  15. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by DBMiller View Post
    After my own outburst I feel I should try to answer to your question. Core is not out yet, so tutorials would be of little use outside of the Core forum. But every build is better and more functional than the last, so it's getting closer to the time more can be shown to the public.
    As far as tutorials for LW9.6, since the program will be used for quite some time those lessons are still useful. If you want them, get them. You won't be disappointed since, as far as I'm concerned, any tutorial is useful, even from other programs. They can help you work out how to do the same thing in LW.
    PS: I hope I didn't put you off with my own post.
    DBMiller
    Thanks, I already have Lots of video Tutorials, From LW7,8,9,9.6
    Simon

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