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Thread: LWCAD for 9.6 in question! - let viktor know!

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by jin choung View Post
    oh i have no trouble believing that's true.

    but yah, as i said, the big thing for me would trimmable nurbs surfaces in modeler only (don't even need them in layout)....

    they would just be FANTASTIC modeling tools.

    jin
    You want the NURBS, but I gotta be honest. I want it all.

  2. #212
    Adapting Artist jasonwestmas's Avatar
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    I don't do a lot of mechanical modeling but I like Nurbs for some things. Nurbs in my experience with models that reference man-made objects are really nice. Otherwise I have to take the extra step to boolean shapes together.
    All that is powerful or long standing is first conceived in the imagination; supported by the hope of possibility and then made manifest in our commitment of our current physical reality.

  3. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by jasonwestmas View Post
    I don't do a lot of mechanical modeling but I like Nurbs for some things. Nurbs in my experience with models that reference man-made objects are really nice. Otherwise I have to take the extra step to boolean shapes together.
    exactly.

    nurbs IS mostly a dead technology for entertainment industry especially as it pertains to characters and final render assets. i mean my goodness, i personally put someone in a chokehold if they demanded i turn out a stitched nurbs character.

    but it is a really handy tool to create complex curvy models without having to worry about:
    a. how two complex shapes are blending into each other and
    b. having "points of no return" on complex models where you need to freeze something in order to drill more detail into it.

    jin

  4. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by chunderburger View Post
    you mean kill off all dev and turn a promising usefull tool into a pile off..??



    id prerfer they do the opposite and hand lw over to the usual suspects to do what they want with it. if old skool lw aint getting any more love cant someone else givie it some for free?
    right. like this:

    http://www.idsoftware.com/business/techdownloads/

    and the terms of the license can be totally up to newtek. but under whatever terms, if they release the source code, the community itself could maintain and develop what has become a "dead" product for newtek itself.

    and newtek can remain as "head of the board" and guiding the development of official builds (ala blender foundation).

    again, this is what i hope happens. and as i said, they can even continue to SELL legacy lw then - so you can just download the source and help work on it if you want but to run it, you still need to buy from newtek.

    otherwise, it will simply die and that's it. when it doesn't have to.

    jin

  5. #215
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    I am sory Jin, but that is an incredibly bad idea.
    Why would newtek would want to encourage competion from itself?
    In the long run what would that acomplish?
    This message does not reflect the opinions of the US Government, CG Networks or CGTALK.com. The opinions expressed on this posting are on my own volition.

  6. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by robertoortiz View Post
    I am sory Jin, but that is an incredibly bad idea.
    Why would newtek would want to encourage competion from itself?
    In the long run what would that acomplish?
    i think the self competition argument is moot-

    why does ID software do it as per my previous link?

    1. it's not competition. it CAN'T compete. DOOM3 and QUAKE4 technology is sooooo far ahead of what doom1 or quake1,2,3 could do that they can completely afford to release it to people.

    if core is done right, lw legacy WON'T STAND A CHANCE. if lw legacy can actually stand up and compete against core, newtek has done something very very wrong.

    2. NO ONE will be pushing or advertising lw legacy. any of the currently sparse marketing efforts will be aimed at chatting up core - not lw legacy.

    but if (as the fanboys have always argued) lw legacy has things that are indeed redeeming and useful now, there's no reason to expect those things to GO AWAY and STOP BEING USEFUL.

    if that's the case, then it's not a bad idea to keep the old car around and tune it up and supercharge it just for kicks.

    3. they can continue to sell lw legacy as a LOWER END model with a low price tag to match. i mean they have it already. it CAN still continue to generate revenue.

    WHY bury it?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    and in releasing the code to the community, increase brand penetration - get more people interested and thinking about lw. get more people aware for core. leverage some of the immense hobbyist, freelance and free development power that fuels open source projects like blender.

    (semi-digression)
    MINDSHARE is a target that must sometimes be attacked obliquely. just like how autodesk and adobe (and microsoft) does INDEED indirectly benefit from the truly MASSIVE and STAGGERING scale of the piracy of their products - especially in student populations - by breeding familiarity and creating demand for their products and KILLING THE COMPETITION.

    for the pirates, why would you buy a $100 paintshop pro, an also-ran product, when you can get photoshop for free?

    why buy a hyundai when you can get the lambo for gratis?

    i mean photoshop is soooooooo ubiquitous that it's used as a verb in popular media and was even mentioned on KING OF THE HILL for heaven's sake... it would be truly difficult to explain that level of public familiarity for the brand of an app that costs $600 if it weren't for piracy.
    (digression over)

    and this would be a wonderfully oblique way of approaching it for newtek.

    jin

  7. #217
    Super Member geo_n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jin choung View Post
    right. like this:

    http://www.idsoftware.com/business/techdownloads/

    and the terms of the license can be totally up to newtek. but under whatever terms, if they release the source code, the community itself could maintain and develop what has become a "dead" product for newtek itself.

    and newtek can remain as "head of the board" and guiding the development of official builds (ala blender foundation).

    again, this is what i hope happens. and as i said, they can even continue to SELL legacy lw then - so you can just download the source and help work on it if you want but to run it, you still need to buy from newtek.

    otherwise, it will simply die and that's it. when it doesn't have to.

    jin
    Not to disagree about lightwave legacy being offered as a lower cost 3d tool. I think that would be great for me as I plan on using lw to death even after I retire from cg work I feel lazy to relearn new lw and new 3dmax.
    Had a meeting last week with my boss and I told them that in a few years lw and 3dmax will be replaced with totally new software. The first question the bosses asked is why, why, why? The first answer I could think of was they need to kill the existing software to make money like the AD way. Ofcourse I mentioned each software weakness.
    Anyway the point is, what is the incentive for a person to spend or upgrade to the latest and greatest if the old software works just fine for what they do? I know my max collegues are dreading the change to excalibur. And a lot of old lwvers are complaining about core.
    Why would AD, newtek, etc want a situation that money won't be coming in from the latest software since the old one works for the low to mid end cg projects?

  8. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by geo_n View Post
    Why would AD, newtek, etc want a situation that money won't be coming in from the latest software since the old one works for the low to mid end cg projects?
    that's the point.

    why does ANYONE upgrade software if what you have works perfectly fine for you?

    ANSWER: you don't.

    if you have hit the point where what you have suits you, you would be a DOPE to upgrade. what? you got money to burn?

    but the reality is that nothing works as well or as fast as it CAN. and invariably, future products make your work easier and faster and better.

    this is the world we live in - standards get raised. what is a high end project now will be a medium level project in the future. if you keep your software as it is, you won't be able to compete.

    bars and standards exist to be raised. and once raised, you can't retreat from it. certainly your clients WON'T.

    so again - there is NO need to fear if newtek does its job properly - that is, make a superior product.

    jin

  9. #219
    Well, I don't know if this has anything to do with it or not but some of the rendering work done in 9.x (and perhaps other areas) was done as a pre-cursor to CORE so maybe they would not want to release any of that code to the public.

    The other point is that until CORE becomes complete and stands on its own, 9.6 is still in play.

    It's all moot anyway since I think Jay has already said that they will not be releasing 9.6 to the public.

  10. #220
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    I vote for LWCAD upgrade for LW 9.6

  11. #221

    Sometimes an upgrade is a must

    Quote Originally Posted by jin choung View Post
    that's the point.

    why does ANYONE upgrade software if what you have works perfectly fine for you?

    ANSWER: you don't.

    jin
    I have to disagree with you on this one. You made a generalization that is not accurate in all cases. Some people have to upgrade software whether they want to or not.
    An example of this I can give you from personal experience. I had a Heidelburg page scanner that was top of the line equipment, but eventually it would not work with the included software and Windows XP, so I had to buy Silverfast which worked with the scanner and Windows XP. It would not work in Windows Vista 64 however and was not going to support Windows Vista anytime soon, if at all so I bought a new scanner that works in Windows Vista along with a crossgrade of Silverfast to work with my new scanner.

    There are other circumstances that call for software upgrades even when what you have works fine. For example AutoCAD...when a client wants his files in AutoCAD version 2010 and I'm happy using AutoCAD version 2004 I need to upgrade to continue to keep this client.

    By the way...I hate having to relearn a program that is so familiar to me. It wants to do a lot of the thinking for me and is overly helpful. I have to waste time learning how to turn off the features I don't want help with.

    Same thing with an old computer when you can't get replacement parts or they are more expensive than an upgrade...time to upgrade.

  12. #222
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    as you please

    I can't speak for Viktor but I am sure he will do his best.

    If he wants to focus on Core then so be it, I have adequate tools to keep working in 9.6 if necessary.


    No amount of the usual confused moaning and finger pointing from Jin will make a shred of difference.

    Viktor is the talented programmer and will make an informed decision, not a needy end-user who won't even pay the pittance it costs to upgrade to 3.5.
    Last edited by scenergy; 02-16-2010 at 01:29 PM.

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