Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 54

Thread: 'must have' plug-ins for LW 9.6? Need advice from LW Masters!!

  1. #31
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    Out of curiosity - why doesn't NewTek provide a way for the top plug-ins to communicate so they can work together?
    There are several ways plug-ins can communicate, some existing since ever, like making global functions/variables plug-in class (whole LWSDK is one big structure of global plug-in classes). I have used it once while making Kray SDK, for special communication between TrueArt's VirtualRender and Kray.
    In newer LW versions v9.x, there is communication ring messaging system.
    But almost nobody use them (LightWolf and me, are probably the only one who used them ever) - two or more programmers would have to sit down and talk about it and implement communication layer. With so low number of LW plug-in copies sold chance that customers have both or more plug-ins on their system is low. So, it would be just waste of time.

    I'm sure Core is going to be great, but - I'd much rather pay more money [to NewTek] and get rapid fixes to LW 9.6 [like 3D Coat provides almost daily], than wait until Core - and all the 3rd parties that will need to integrate with it - to provide a solution.
    Solutions exist, but nobody use them, because it doesn't bring money. Free plug-in makers have even less pressure for using them..

    If solutions would not be inside of LWSDK, really desperate plug-in makers could use operating system specific messaging systems. Every OS have tons of them (incompatible with other OS-es).

    BTW, I don't see a reason to use 3rd party plug-ins communication in context of this discussion about cached GI file..
    Last edited by Sensei; 12-25-2009 at 05:20 PM.

  2. #32
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    989
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    BTW, I don't see a reason to use 3rd party plug-ins communication in context of this discussion about cached GI file..
    I may be misreading it, but I took the reason that HD Instance does't work with LW's 'animated radiosity' to be due to some kind of lack of communication between the plug-in and LW.

    I 'think' I saw a note on the FPrime site, saying there were some things they couldn't do due to lack of communication (the way LW was built to handle plug-ins) that even affected how FPrime could talk to other Worley plug-ins. (Just bought FPrime, so I'm trying to get up to speed on all this)

    And I sure wish FPrime would work with HD Instance (which I'm about to buy), but I don't fully understand why not.

    I may be misreading the situation entirely though.

    BTW - I'm trying to get my head around this - and while reading db&w's shaderMeister pdf, it mentioned these limitiations (listed below) - so there must be some limitation built into LW currently. I'm just trying to figure out how there affect my ability to work with several 3rd party plug-ins (I hate it when I don't know - what I don't know).

    http://www.db-w.com/index.php?option...sk=view&id=126

    Incompatible with FPrime
    Due to LightWave 3D SDK limitations FPrime can't render shaders. As these are crucial for shaderMeister, FPrime isn't able to render any modifications due to shaderMeister.

    Incompatible with HDInstance
    For the same reason as the FPrime incompatibility, shaderMeister won't be visible on items that are rendered by HDInstance.
    Last edited by 3dWannabe; 12-25-2009 at 07:27 PM.

  3. #33
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Kray is not interactive. So user interface is locked and user can't change plug-in settings during rendering.

    I have feeling that I have tried HD_Instance v1.x with TH and it worked, but was crashing during changing HD_Instance settings.
    ..or maybe it was with VirtualRender...
    Wouldn't it work if you locked and refreshed the renderer? All I meant was that the SDK connection is there, so it should at least be theoretically possible. The updating bit might prove tricky, though.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  4. #34
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    I may be misreading it, but I took the reason that HD Instance does't work with LW's 'animated radiosity' to be due to some kind of lack of communication between the plug-in and LW.
    I don't have HD_Instance, so cannot check it by myself..
    Except your previous message, I have never read that HD_Instance doesn't work with animated radiosity. At v9.3 times there was no such option in Lightwave (cache GI file was added in v9.6). So, maybe he used v9.3 in the animation you mentioned just because newer LW didn't exist?

    I 'think' I saw a note on the FPrime site, saying there were some things they couldn't do due to lack of communication (the way LW was built to handle plug-ins) that even affected how FPrime could talk to other Worley plug-ins. (Just bought FPrime, so I'm trying to get up to speed on all this)
    Yes, there is couple things never supported because they're not executable from 3rd party plug-ins: shaders, image-filters and pixel-filters. Shaders died after adding Node Editor in LW v9.0. Not to mention there was only two serious shaders: IFW package and infiniMap, both were converted to nodes as soon as v9.0 was released.
    Image filters- I don't know any serious one.. Even if Fprime would work with them- it simply doesn't have any buffers that image-filter plug-in needs except RGBA! It would need additional coding to calculate these buffers and use much more memory and slower preview update..
    Pixel-filters- there are two serious of this kind- Sasquatch and FiberFX, although some don't count second one as 'serious'

    As you can see you don't loose much without support for them..

    And I sure wish FPrime would work with HD Instance (which I'm about to buy), but I don't fully understand why not.
    When you will buy it, you can share with as whether it works or not..
    With two so big enhancements, there is million things that might break working together. And differ depending on last number in version.

  5. #35
    Super Member geo_n's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    jpn
    Posts
    4,677
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    It could, potentially. Apparently, HD-Instance works in Kray. I haven't tried it myself, but other users have reported it as working. If it works in Kray, it should be possible to get it working in FPrime or the TrueArt renderer.
    It doesn't work in kray. Kray can see the instances but it doesn't render correctly in kray. I think happy digital might be seeing kray as competition being that kray has the same instancing feature BUT without the coolest animation offset crowd faking massive alternative feature of hdi. So communications between the developers has stopped. According to jure they tried many times to ask for assistance from happy digital.

  6. #36
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Obvious View Post
    Wouldn't it work if you locked and refreshed the renderer? All I meant was that the SDK connection is there, so it should at least be theoretically possible. The updating bit might prove tricky, though.
    Do you mean press pause in previewer, then do changes in some plug-in and press resume? In TrueHair Preview it would definitely work this way. In Fprime I don't know technical details whether it frees resources during paused stage or not.

    I don't know about what SDK connection, you're talking about. Fprime is opening independent, operating system specific window, with OpenGL texture, and writes directly to texture memory from rendering threads..

    TrueHair Preview opens fully LightWave friendly window using SDK (so the same code runs without changes in both Windows and MacOS X). In <LW v9.6 or v9.5 it uses operating system specific resources to delay between forcing update. In LW v9.6+ it uses newly added in that version timer.
    Only Overlay mode is using serious hack, to force update of LightWave window viewport.

  7. #37
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    989
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I don't have HD_Instance, so cannot check it by myself..
    Except your previous message, I have never read that HD_Instance doesn't work with animated radiosity. At v9.3 times there was no such option in Lightwave (cache GI file was added in v9.6). So, maybe he used v9.3 in the animation you mentioned just because newer LW didn't exist?
    .
    I won't risk angering the 'powers that be' by quoting, but if you have the 9.6.1 beta look at LW961-ReadMe.txt and search for HD Instance. What it said there caught my attention.

    I'm not yet enabled for the beta forum [the docs said it would take a few days], or I'd ask there, and I'm trying to figure all this out to make purchases before the end-of-year.

  8. #38
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    If I were you, trying to decrease taxes, I would suggest buying HD_Instance..
    Even if it won't have use in interiors, you will find it helpful in exteriors as grass, tree and vegetation cloner.

    If you're seeking other ideas for plug-ins (TreeDesigner and Fire&Smoke Generator) check out this page
    http://www.polas.net/
    This is my friend from Poland, who migrated to Australia.
    Hehe.. He mentioned me at front page.. I had no idea about it..
    Last edited by Sensei; 12-25-2009 at 07:47 PM.

  9. #39
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,502
    Quote Originally Posted by geo_n View Post
    It doesn't work in kray. Kray can see the instances but it doesn't render correctly in kray.
    Oh. Well, never mind then. I remember hearing someone saying that it worked, but I guess they were wrong or I misunderstood.


    I don't know about what SDK connection, you're talking about.
    Accessing volumetric plugins, like HD-Instance.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  10. #40
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    Oh. Well, never mind then. I remember hearing someone saying that it worked, but I guess they were wrong or I misunderstood.
    I have feeling it was in HD_Instance v1.7-v1.8 times.. Check dates of this message, with when v2.0 was released, and Kray version/revision.. This way authors, if have backups, could compare and realize what was changed since then.

    Accessing volumetric plugins, like HD-Instance.
    There is just one LWVolumetricEvaluateFuncs global, one for all volumetrics. Caller even can't check what kind of volumetrics are there. They are not named in human readable characters, checkable for 3rd party plug-in, or human. TrueHair volumetric, called from Kray, or TrueHair Previewer worked fine (although long time initialization of hairs must be delayed to rendering threads, otherwise whole interactivity is killed; Kray this problem doesn't concern). If it doesn't work with HD_Instance, there is probably something uninitialized from Kray side (while making working Kray with VirtualRender, Grzegorz had real trouble understanding why to send screen coords to volumetric plug-in 2-3 years ago, and I lost patience convincing him that some plug-in can use it for kd-tree/octree type of optimization but in 2d screen coord space; at the end he didn't initialize them AFAIR; don't know how is now). I bet for 1 million bucks that after seeing HD_Instance source code, even without comparing with Kray source code initializing volumetric execution (have the same in TrueHair, so can disable some initializations to simulate effect), I would fix it in 10 minutes..

    If you have HD_Instance and Kray, I can try to find bug. But you would have to make for me series of example screen-shots.
    Last edited by Sensei; 12-25-2009 at 08:28 PM.

  11. #41
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    I have idea how to check whether Kray initialize Screen X/Y fields in volumetric access structure even without looking at source code- take TrueArt's Node Library > Extended Spot Info > X, connect it to Standard Material Color input, and output connect to TrueInfinitePlane. Rendered image should have black to white gradient from left to right. Tested with LW render, and TH.

  12. #42
    Super Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    989
    Sensei - TrueInfinitePlane looks pretty useful. But, only in 32 bit?

  13. #43
    TrueArt Support
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    7,897
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    Sensei - TrueInfinitePlane looks pretty useful.
    Yes, it's very useful in test scenes when you need quick and nice looking ground that catches shadows (LW built-in Environment Gradient has always solid color).

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    But, only in 32 bit?
    My machine which was used for compiling 64 bit plug-ins is broken.

  14. #44
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    London
    Posts
    4,502
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    I have feeling it was in HD_Instance v1.7-v1.8 times.. Check dates of this message, with when v2.0 was released, and Kray version/revision.. This way authors, if have backups, could compare and realize what was changed since then.
    It was in a Skype chat, and I don't have the logs saved anywhere. I'll check with the other testers, though — it'd be nice if HD-Instance worked in Kray, and I don't have a license for it so I can't check it myself.


    I have idea how to check whether Kray initialize Screen X/Y fields in volumetric access structure even without looking at source code- take TrueArt's Node Library > Extended Spot Info > X, connect it to Standard Material Color input, and output connect to TrueInfinitePlane.
    I'll have a look when I get back to my LW seat.


    Btw, Sensei — how about compiling your stuff for 64-bit? I've been interested in a few of your plugins a while, but I don't run 32-bit software. Perhaps you could ask someone else in the LW plugin community to compile it in 64-bit for you? Michael Wolf, maybe? I think he compiles the 64-bit and Mac versions of Denis Pontonnier's plugins.
    Are my spline guides showing?

  15. #45
    obfuscated SDK hacker Lightwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Stuttgart, Germany
    Posts
    13,611
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    http://www.db-w.com/index.php?option...sk=view&id=126

    Incompatible with FPrime
    Due to LightWave 3D SDK limitations FPrime can't render shaders. As these are crucial for shaderMeister, FPrime isn't able to render any modifications due to shaderMeister.

    Incompatible with HDInstance
    For the same reason as the FPrime incompatibility, shaderMeister won't be visible on items that are rendered by HDInstance.
    I suppose I can shed some light into this.

    Essentially, FPrime and HDInstance use the LW SDK in a way that it was never designed to be used (come to think of it, shaderMeister as well ).
    Now, shaderMeister needs to use shader type plugins (not to be confused with texture layers and nodes, which are plugins used for surfacing as well) for a number of technical reasons. It's pretty much the only way to hook into LWs shading pipeline in an automated fashion.

    On the other had, shaders are one of the oldest types of plugins for LW, they're ancient. And they have never really been exposed within LW in such a way as to allow other plugins to actually evaluate them. And evaluate they must to be able to render their effects.

    Having said that (as Sensei mentioned earlier), shaderMeister does have its own SDK for other third parties to hook into, and it's been sent out. However (again, as Sensei said) since the amount of customers that use a certain combination of plugins is relatively small, even if the "communication" exists it may not be worthwhile to implement (unless it's just seen as a challenge).

    Three exceptions that I've been involved with:
    BNR has native support for exrTrader.
    Janus has native support for exrTrader (both developers got the specs for how the plugin settings are saved in a scene, and they are available for others).
    PackageScene.ls from NewTek has (ComRing based!) hooks to allow third parties to also include their content when a scene is packaged (infiniMap takes advantage of that).

    Cheers,
    Mike

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •