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Thread: 'must have' plug-ins for LW 9.6? Need advice from LW Masters!!

  1. #16
    Super Member mike_stening's Avatar
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    2 questions (and this is based off what i am learning fromthe current job i am running)
    i do alot of his res still shots, but they tend to be one offs at a time. now the current job is alot of shots and they are mostly large format, crunching this lot out in LW takes ALOT of time especially with DOF and MB passes and lots of detailed objects and large textures.

    so which would be better? kray or janus?
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_stening View Post
    so which would be better? kray or janus?
    These are completely different kind of plug-ins.
    Kray is 3rd party non-interactive renderer.
    And Janus is script that's generating scenes with disabled/enabled objects/settings ("passes"), that you later have to regularly render in LW..

    Kray should be compared with LW built-in renderer, Fprime, TrueHair Preview, Vray, Maxwell Render etc.

    Janus should be compared with Surpass and PassPort..
    Last edited by Sensei; 12-10-2009 at 09:27 AM.

  3. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    As fprime was suggested, I got a response on another forum commenting on it:

    -----
    Personally, fprime is no longer a vital 'must have' plugin. It used to be, because the rendering speed was great, and you could get stuff out pretty quick. But, these days, the Lightwave renderer is so much faster, and also allows you to use other plugins and shaders, which fprime simply cannot render or access.
    Fprimes main use these days (and for which I think it was initially designed for) is checking textures live, and just making sure everything is looking right. Either that, or putting out a very quick render for test purposes.
    ----

    It seems like there are things you must give up with fprime?

    Or - is that user thinking of an older version of fprime?

    I'd looked at the kraytracing site before, as I'd heard it mentioned. Do you have to give up certain features to use it?

    thanks!
    fprime as a previewer is still out of competition. doing even fast test renderings is not the same thing as interactively building up lights or texturing a scene. there's however trueart's previewing engine which seems to do a similar job, just without the GI part.

    about fprime as a render engine, it depends probably also on what kind of work you are doing. with very heavy scenes, fprime's polygon crunching speed is still unrivaled imo. LW's native engine is very slow when the GI scenes are massive, even if optimizing them as you can. fprime can deliver a very nice montecarlo GI - it's just missing very few things, like caustics and the rendering of external shaders (but it supports texture shaders). 95% of all nodes in 9.6 are supported anyway - just not those which need preprocessing or postprocessing.

    same is true for kray - it has also some few SDK dictated limitations + a very few more - like light exclusion lists - just read about those on the company website. in any case, fprime is more 'LW' compliant, which means it will rather well 'mimic' native LW output, whereas kray is an engine which is focused on final rendering, not a previewer - which needs surfacing and light setup tweaks here and there to get the same look. on the other side it gives you way more options for GI scenes. for the way it works, you can compare it more to vray than to the native LW engine. however, it is supporting the same nodes and texture shaders like fprime.

    in the end it all comes down on what your needs are. the LW engine offers natively an excellent image quality as well, and if used with some knowledge and not too massive scenes, also its GI is very fast...
    Last edited by 3dworks; 12-10-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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  4. #19
    Super Member mike_stening's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    These are completely different kind of plug-ins.
    Kray is 3rd party non-interactive renderer.
    And Janus is script that's generating scenes with disabled/enabled objects/settings ("passes"), that you later have to regularly render in LW..

    Kray should be compared with LW built-in renderer, Fprime, TrueHair Preview, Vray, Maxwell Render etc.

    Janus should be compared with Surpass and PassPort..
    ok maybe i didnt word it right.

    basically im looking at possible options for speeding up rendering with global illumination, i love the LW render engine and what it produces but is there anything comparable but quicker (and where did they put the "just 3D it" button?)
    i mentioned janus as i had the thought of splitting out things like DOF and MB passes so it renders just that and the other stuff is done in a seperate faster pass.

    i wasnt comparing janus to kray as they are obviously very different in what they do just wether one would be a better option over the other for my situation.
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  5. #20
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_stening View Post
    ok maybe i didnt word it right.

    basically im looking at possible options for speeding up rendering with global illumination, i love the LW render engine and what it produces but is there anything comparable but quicker (and where did they put the "just 3D it" button?)
    i mentioned janus as i had the thought of splitting out things like DOF and MB passes so it renders just that and the other stuff is done in a seperate faster pass.

    i wasnt comparing janus to kray as they are obviously very different in what they do just wether one would be a better option over the other for my situation.
    Here is a quick and dirty tutorial where I break out a GI-render with Janus. No DOF or MBlur in that video though, but as you can see it is quite easy to break things out. The good thing with this is also the fact that if you have more than one computer, you can have all of them render different scenefiles.

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  6. #21
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    I'm pretty much sold on HD Instance.

    With FPrime, I'm less certain.

    If I understand, it is very useful during real-time modification of lighting, but there are many parts of LW - and other tools such as HD Instance and X-Dof - that won't work with FPrime.

    Has that changed, or is that about to change, with new versions of FPrime or LW (9.6.1?)

    And I'm still evaluating the other suggestions. Hard to try to anticipate what will be useful a few months from now when I'm hopefully making real progress with LW.

  7. #22
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    With FPrime, I'm less certain.
    IMHO this or other real-time interactive renderer is absolute must have for anybody working in Layout. I am starting my interactive renderer first after lauching Layout everytime, and closing last. Not every scene needs instancing, but all needs setting up lights, cameras and textures.

    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    Has that changed, or is that about to change, with new versions of FPrime or LW (9.6.1?)
    IMHO that will never change.

  8. #23
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    Sensei - you make a convincing case for FPrime.

    There may be only crumbs left in my stocking for Xmas if I buy it, as FPrime is not cheap!

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  10. #25
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    Using 64 bit Modeler doesn't make sense. You never run out of memory. Long time before reaching it, refreshing and editing is not possible..

    With Layout, agree.
    Except if you do heavy image map-based texturing work, then you can run out of memory really quickly.
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  11. #26
    Profesor Pixel Poo Mr Rid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    'must have' plug-ins for LW 9.6?
    Maya 2010
    "O K, so what's the speed of dark?"

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  12. #27
    Almost newbie Cageman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Rid View Post
    Maya 2010
    A good point!

    It makes sense, since a majority of things done in the VFX industry relies on this application, one can never go wrong in knowing the basics about it. Even when you might end up doing all the work in LW, it is important to know how to move the data to/from this application.

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  13. #28
    Super Member Captain Obvious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3dWannabe View Post
    If I understand, it is very useful during real-time modification of lighting, but there are many parts of LW - and other tools such as HD Instance and X-Dof - that won't work with FPrime.

    Has that changed, or is that about to change, with new versions of FPrime or LW (9.6.1?)
    It could, potentially. Apparently, HD-Instance works in Kray. I haven't tried it myself, but other users have reported it as working. If it works in Kray, it should be possible to get it working in FPrime or the TrueArt renderer.
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  14. #29
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    Kray is not interactive. So user interface is locked and user can't change plug-in settings during rendering.

    I have feeling that I have tried HD_Instance v1.x with TH and it worked, but was crashing during changing HD_Instance settings.
    ..or maybe it was with VirtualRender...

  15. #30
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    With HD Instance, if Animated Radiosity cannot be used (Happy Digital said he would run some tests on it), what is the 'best' Radiosity setting to use with an animated scene?

    He said he used 'full radiosity' with 9.3 for the Santa's Workshop scene ( http://www.happy-digital.com/instanc...p?videoClips=2 ) and that 9.6 should be 'less flickery' even without using animated radiosity.

    Out of curiosity - why doesn't NewTek provide a way for the top plug-ins to communicate so they can work together?

    I'm sure Core is going to be great, but - I'd much rather pay more money [to NewTek] and get rapid fixes to LW 9.6 [like 3D Coat provides almost daily], than wait until Core - and all the 3rd parties that will need to integrate with it - to provide a solution.

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