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Thread: Field Order in VT[5] and Tricaster

  1. #1

    Field Order in VT[5] and Tricaster

    Hi,

    I know this subject has appear a number of times, but I was unable to find a final answer, so I'll bring that up again...

    I'm rendering an After Effects project to be used with VT[5] and Tricaster.

    1. I presume I should export at 720 x 486 (not 720 x 480), right?

    2. What field order should I use in After Effects?

    Thanks,

    Helder Conde

  2. #2
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    Odd field first. ( think of field 1, the first field as odd, and field 2, the even field is second. ) There was a lot of confusion at the time computers and video first converged, but engineers always refer to fields as first and second, not odd and even. Some programs used the reverse field order, but most old school video guys would say that's just wrong.

    Bob Anderson

  3. #3
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    I always prefer references to "upper" and "lower" over "odd" and "even". I think for NTSC, both D1 and DV are lower first.

    Some companies refer to the uppermost line as 0, others call it 1. This inevitably means that what one company calls "odd", the other calls "even".

    What a hairball.
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  4. #4

    Doubt persists...

    Guys,

    Thanks for the responses. But please note that we actually fell on the same problems I've seen whenever this subject comes up...

    Bob told me to use odd (which is a synonim for upper or field 1). But as far as I understand, SBowie said that all NTSC is even (or lower, or field 2)...

    So, that brings me back to my original question... Which one should I use: I'm rendering to NTSC.

    Thanks for the help!

    Helder

  5. #5
    'the write stuff' SBowie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helder Conde View Post
    (which is a synonim for upper or field 1).
    Is it? To some, the answer is yes. That's kind of my point. If a developer refers to the uppermost line as 0, not 1, then the lower field is odd. (That's why I avoid "odd" and "even" references, as I said above.)

    In any case, three points:

    1) I'm not going to quibble with anyone (esp. Bob), as I don't use AE and have no idea what its terminology is.

    2) I just loaded one of the sample clips Newtek has been using for years (the 'train') into Mirage - DV, 720x480. I loaded it into a default NTSC DV project (720x480, "Lower First"), and re-exported it using the same settings. The before and after clips are indistinguishable.

    3) the simplest way to prove to yourself you have the correct settings is to choose a fast motion clip, and render one of each. One of them is going to look terrible when played back.
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  6. #6
    Registered User David Curle's Avatar
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    DV fields

    Quote Originally Posted by SBowie View Post
    Is it? To some, the answer is yes. That's kind of my point. If a developer refers to the uppermost line as 0, not 1, then the lower field is odd. (That's why I avoid "odd" and "even" references, as I said above.)

    In any case, three points:

    1) I'm not going to quibble with anyone (esp. Bob), as I don't use AE and have no idea what its terminology is.

    2) I just loaded one of the sample clips Newtek has been using for years (the 'train') into Mirage - DV, 720x480. I loaded it into a default NTSC DV project (720x480, "Lower First"), and re-exported it using the same settings. The before and after clips are indistinguishable.

    3) the simplest way to prove to yourself you have the correct settings is to choose a fast motion clip, and render one of each. One of them is going to look terrible when played back.
    I don't rember what the story is in NTSC, but in the PAL world, DV is the odd man out with fields and thus causes a lot of problems if finishing in MPEG:
    The standard for years was Upper first but then along came the DV format which was lower frame first.
    MPEG is upper frame first.
    So what I am saying is that DV format (by its nature) has stuffed up the frame sequence
    David

  7. #7
    So why does VT5-SpeedEdit only render MPEG2 files with the "Top" field first?

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