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munck
02-26-2003, 03:03 AM
Ive got my first touch in 3D world with 3D Studio Max. Lightwave works a bit differently and now I have been reading threads and tutorials in LW community. Im really frustrated why every problem in Lightwave is solved by a plugin!

Im not saying that Max doesnt need plugins but all of the basic operations can be done without any extra plugins. I have used to think that pluging are only needed when you REALLY want to enhance programs features.

Can someone explain this plugin-issue in LW!?

-tommi-

Userdelta
02-26-2003, 07:02 AM
thats just how lw is, its an interface and a collection of plugins.
the only bad thing is that some plugins cant or dont use the interface as others do.
otherwise its very cool. usually there is no lack of tools to be downloaded.

pixelmonk
02-26-2003, 07:33 AM
Originally posted by munck
Ive got my first touch in 3D world with 3D Studio Max. Lightwave works a bit differently and now I have been reading threads and tutorials in LW community. Im really frustrated why every problem in Lightwave is solved by a plugin!

Im not saying that Max doesnt need plugins but all of the basic operations can be done without any extra plugins. I have used to think that pluging are only needed when you REALLY want to enhance programs features.

Can someone explain this plugin-issue in LW!?

-tommi-

"plugins" are no different than the dlo's or dlls that Max or Maya use. Maya is considered to be just a series of MEL scripts by some. MEL scripts.. Lscripts... ? Certain fuctions are broken out as their own file or set of files. This has nothing to do with the way they interact with Lightwave. Some are more interactive than others. Single files or a set of files for a function would be considered easier to update than having to recompile all of Lightwave just for an update or patch.

Matt
02-26-2003, 09:26 AM
some plugins are perfect for what they do, others are like plaster filling in cracks IMO.

I'd rather have more stuff tightly integrated into LW personally.

cresshead
02-26-2003, 03:47 PM
Hmm well i've used bought max when max 2.5 was out..and then went to max 3.1 and max 4...and bought load of plugins for it to fill the holes in max...in contrast i bought lightwave 7.5 in march last year and the only plugin i've installed is acs3..which is free!..and currently looking at acs4 [$90]...other than that lightwave seems quite complete for me.

steve g

www.cresshead.com

Skonk
02-26-2003, 05:51 PM
The benefit to using plugins for the basic features and the advanced stuff rather than coding it into the lightwave executables themselves is that it allows different teams of developers to work on adding features without the need to keep recompiling the main .exe's, if all the features were built in then eachtime one was modified the exe's would need to be rebuilt and the new version sent to all the development teams. It makes more scence the way it is.

James..

munck
02-27-2003, 05:31 AM
I think Matt put my feelings into words when he said: "I'd rather have more stuff tightly integrated into LW personally." And in the way I feel, this meens that all basic functions should be in Lightwave itself rather than user have to download them from around. Despite all good reasoning some of you gave, I still think that plugins are really specific helpers and should be available for more experienced users who cant get where they are going with basic tools in any program. Was that complicated enough :)

In my opinion Max has a better covering in simple functions like creating objects and shapes.

Maybe Im a bit over-emotional because of difficulties that Ive had in the beginning of my Great Journey into the World of LW. Thanks that I had this opportunity to share my feelings :D

pixelmonk
02-27-2003, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by munck
I think Matt put my feelings into words when he said: "I'd rather have more stuff tightly integrated into LW personally." And in the way I feel, this meens that all basic functions should be in Lightwave itself rather than user have to download them from around. Despite all good reasoning some of you gave, I still think that plugins are really specific helpers and should be available for more experienced users who cant get where they are going with basic tools in any program. Was that complicated enough :)

In my opinion Max has a better covering in simple functions like creating objects and shapes.

Maybe Im a bit over-emotional because of difficulties that Ive had in the beginning of my Great Journey into the World of LW. Thanks that I had this opportunity to share my feelings :D


I feel the same way about Maya. Object creation, to me, in LW is sooo much easier.

JMarc
02-27-2003, 08:38 AM
Differences in plugin interfaces don't bother me. What does bother me about the way plugins are implemented in Layout is that plugins can't access data from other plugins.

When dealing with, say, motion created by a plugin, this limitation forces users to bake the motion to keyframes before another plugin can "see" what is going on and do its thing.

What ever happened to "Full Scene Parameter Evaluation"? Was it just a hidden feature whose function was to make LightWave crash almost instantly? ;)

faulknermano
02-27-2003, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by JMarc
Differences in plugin interfaces don't bother me. What does bother me about the way plugins are implemented in Layout is that plugins can't access data from other plugins.


i agree.. even from a scripting point of view, it gets quite cumbersome to load a couple of scripts to get them to work in unison. i think it has less to do with the plugin architecture per se as it is the way it was just implemented. if the segregated architecture can provide for flawless communication between plugins it will be quite awesome... many more possiblities open up... user-wise and lscript-wise (which i'm hoping for :D )

JMarc
02-27-2003, 08:23 PM
I'm glad someone agrees! :D At least now I know I'm not the only one having these issues.

Let's cross our fingers for a quick resolution to these issues allowing us greater complexity and flexibility in our animations!
______________
Jean Marc Rodrigue
(a.k.a. JMarc)

kevin3d
03-01-2003, 07:21 AM
I'm kinda confused:confused:

One of the reasons I'm looking to migrate from MAX to LW is that my impression is LW is so much more of a complete program. Re-authorizing max plugins is a pain, and sometimes they are discontinued for later versions of max which is a REAL pain. Also I don't want to pay all that $$ for something and then turn around & have to buy more stuff.

Now I'm hearing LW aslo requires alot of plugins :(

faulknermano
03-01-2003, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by kevin3d
I'm kinda confused:confused:

One of the reasons I'm looking to migrate from MAX to LW is that my impression is LW is so much more of a complete program. Re-authorizing max plugins is a pain, and sometimes they are discontinued for later versions of max which is a REAL pain. Also I don't want to pay all that $$ for something and then turn around & have to buy more stuff.

Now I'm hearing LW aslo requires alot of plugins :(

it's hard to qualify statements. do you mean commercial plugins? i dont think LW awfully needs plugins that you find commercially available.

are you familiar with maya? 90 percent of stuff executed in maya are MEL scripts, even down the the UI parts. now, maya comes with an extensive set of these scripts (or call them 'plugins' if you want, because they're essentially the same thing as far as end results go), while the maya user base adds to the pool.

to compare, lw has less of those useful plugins or scripts that come 'out of the box' in respect to maya's own 'completeness.' but nevertheless, such scripts are available for free. you just have to download them. in essence, you have to an extra step to get the stuff, but it wont cost you a cent for the actual script... just a few minutes (or hours) in the internet. :)

faulknermano
03-01-2003, 07:50 AM
Originally posted by faulknermano

to compare, lw has less of those useful plugins or scripts that come 'out of the box' in respect to maya's own 'completeness.'

uh... this is highly arguable.. and i dont actually mean this in a way that it may be seen. i'm just trying to communicate what people see as plugins / scripts are just an INTRINSIC part of the of ANY 3D SOFTWARE. the only difference is where we get the most useful ones, either provided for immediately, or must be acquired elsewhere without spending more.