View Full Version : Mysterious Texture Change

06-13-2009, 01:05 AM
I rendered an animation for about 20 hours straight, then gave it a break and did other things in LW. When I went back to continue rendering the scene, the texture on the background object is DIFFERENT. :-(

The scene is exactly the same; the object is exactly the same.

All attributes of the texture are exactly the same, except one layer, which has changed somehow.

I've never had this happen before, and I do not understand how the same object, without having been changed, could have a different texture on subsequent renders.

Any ideas?

As it is, I'm going to have to start all over with the entire render, which is a real shame, and a big waste of time.

See attachments: frames 1-554 are all the same background. Frames 555 onward are different. :-(

Thanks for any help or suggestions.

06-13-2009, 01:10 AM
Oops, forgot to attach, as usual ...

All the layers in this texture except the one that changed are exactly the SAME. They are several layers of the IFW2_Space_Starfield texture. Each little star is in EXACTLYy the same position, but the blue Hybrid Multi-fractal is different, which totally ruins the animation.


06-13-2009, 01:21 AM
OK, this is getting freaky. Now the stars are NOT in the same position. But the object placement and rotation has not changed.

Maybe I just need to get some sleep and try again later. :-/O

06-13-2009, 12:17 PM
OK, I got some good sleep, and now I can see there really IS a problem here, and I have not been able to figure out why it is happening.

I just opened this same scene, checked the texture, and confirmed the following:

1. Nothing in the texture itself is animated in any way -- no envelopes, and no "flow" or anything of the kind. It uses IFW2's Space-Starfield texture in several layers, plus a couple of layers of LW's good old Hybrid Multi-fractal.

2. The object itself is not animated. The only keyframe is at frame 0. (No position, rotation, or size changes, at all.)

3. The object is not parented to any other objects. It is placed there at 0,0,0 and it just sits there serving as nothing more than a background throughout the entire animation.

To see this problem I did the following:

1. Booted Layout (9.6), rendered frame 450, saved the image, and quit Layout.

2. RE-booted Layout, rendered frame 451, saved the image, and quit Layout.

Results: The texture on this particular object is COMPLETELY different on frame 451 than on frame 450 (as if the object was rotated 180-degrees or something like that, LW boot-to-reboot)! -- Of course, if I continue to render without quitting and re-booting Layout, the texture stays the same as expected throughout the entire render (as it did during the first 20 hours of rendering prior to discovering this problem), but this render is going to take a couple of weeks or more on this one computer, and so I need to render at night and use LW in the day for other purposes.

I've attached the object itself (a simple "space-ball" with the texture mapped to the inside of it). SpaceBall-010.lwo -- you'll need IFW2.

Unless there's something I don't know, procedural textures have never changed in saved objects from one LW session to the next. But this one does. :-( Until I figure this out, I am not able to continue with this little project.

Thanks for any help ... time for me to learn something new apparently: hopefully WHY this is happening. :-)

(This morning's renders of frames 450 and 451 are also attached.)

06-13-2009, 01:25 PM
According to http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96672 this problem is because of a bug with procedurals using noise, which was supposedly fixed in 9.6 public release.

I'm here to tell ya it's not fixed. :-(((

Mr Rid
06-13-2009, 02:52 PM
According to http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96672 this problem is because of a bug with procedurals using noise, which was supposedly fixed in 9.6 public release.

I'm here to tell ya it's not fixed. :-(((

I dont know what 'procedurals using noise' means. This sounds hard to pin down without actually having your scene and objects. But to get it done, I would just try a different texture since the hazy looking texture could be replicated with other procedurals. Or, since it does not animate, maybe can get away with rendering out a black and white image of your procedural texture on a flat plane and then apply it as an image map in your scene instead of using the procedural.

06-13-2009, 04:09 PM
I uploaded the object in the message before yours. Try it if you like. Apparently it's a bug with any procedural that uses a noise. The texture looks different on any saved object, each time you boot LW.

For now I'm trying the Surface Baking Camera.

Mr Rid
06-13-2009, 05:12 PM
Hmm, am not having a problem with your object. I tried comparing different scenes, or reloading the same scene, or saving different object versions and rendering different frames (including 450 & 451), always closing and opening layout in between renders... all the same. I have never experienced a problem with jumpy procedurals before except with animated ripples. So its curious what is going on at your end. :stumped:

One thing is that I do not have the IFW procedurals applied. Did you try it with only the Hybrid applied and nothing else?

06-13-2009, 07:51 PM
No, I didn't break the texture down into various parts. I will if I encounter this problem again. For now I settled on baking the texture instead of spending even more time "chasing a ghost." Are you on PC LW? On Mac UB, I can load that object all by itself, and get different rendered results from the same scene each time I quit and reboot Layout.

If you're on Mac UB and don't have IFW2 (cheap right now and very useful, btw) it could be something related to that ... but I kind of suspect it's that texture-noise bug people encountered with earlier versions of LW, that possibly got sorted out on some platforms, but not on others -- but I may never know ...

Thanks for thinking it through with me. :-)

Mr Rid
06-13-2009, 08:18 PM
Ah-hah, Macness afoot. Am on PC.

I had IFW awhile back but just never needed them. Now that I think about it I only use maybe 3 of the LW procedurals but not too often in the photoreal texturing I mostly do since they usually look, well, procedural.

06-14-2009, 05:10 AM
I have had objects in layout change names and directory locations on me..without lifting a finger.

There are some strange things happening in 9.6 UB, you should report any and all you come across.


06-14-2009, 01:21 PM
Using procedural texture which has randomization is generally bad idea. Try baking it to regular image instead. You can use TrueArt's Environment Baking Camera to do so http://www.trueart.eu
This way it will be always the same.