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View Full Version : Anybody use Shake?



CGI Addict
06-02-2009, 10:45 AM
Looking at possibly getting Apple Shake and was very interested in your experiences with it.

Scazzino
06-02-2009, 11:10 AM
If you've never used a nodal compositor before it takes some getting used to, but once you do it's extremely powerful. You can often find it nowadays for extreme discounts (I got a copy a while ago for $250 during a special sale at an online distributor) and I wouldn't be surprised if Apple extends special pricing to upgrade from Shake to their next generation solution which may or may not be bundled with their next Final Cut Studio (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/13/apple_expected_to_release_new_final_cut_studio_nea r_nab_show.html). It's also possible that such an update may be waiting for Snow Leopard to take advantage of the more powerful multi-threaded and GPU computing architecture.

Bottom line is that these days you can get Shake so cheaply that it's really a no brainer. Even if there was no upgrade, you can grab it for less than a plugin to many other compositing apps and it should continue to work as-is for the foreseeable future anyway.

:thumbsup:

bassmanjam
06-02-2009, 12:28 PM
Node based compositing does take some getting used to for sure. However you can build the effects that you want instead of relying on a plugin. Shake still has a user base even though many compositors have moved on to Nuke. You can't beat the price though.

toby
06-02-2009, 05:36 PM
Nuke is better, but it's ten times the price, and if Shake was good enough for ILM to use for Pirates of the Caribbean 3...

Scazzino
06-02-2009, 06:09 PM
I paid $250 for Shake (it's $500 at Apple store but you can find better deals). Nuke is $3,500, plus you need $1,000 for the mandatory support contract, plus you need $250 per render license... You could buy Shake ($500 at Apple store) AND an 8-core Mac Pro ($3,299) for less than Nuke alone... and still have plenty left over for memory upgrades etc... now that's some serious bang for the buck. ;)

Andyjaggy
06-03-2009, 05:25 PM
Nuke is better, but it's ten times the price, and if Shake was good enough for ILM to use for Pirates of the Caribbean 3...

Well they have probably customized and scripted Shake to the point it's no longer the same tool. That said however Shake is still very competent, and for the price it's a no brainer.

toby
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Well they have probably customized and scripted Shake to the point it's no longer the same tool. That said however Shake is still very competent, and for the price it's a no brainer.
I should've made that point - a friend who worked there and used it said it was out-of-the-box.

dsol
06-12-2009, 08:59 AM
I bought Shake when Apple dropped the price - I'd heard so many good things about it, it seemed a must-buy. Sadly, despite working my way through many tutorials I've come to the conclusion it's not my cup of tea. I don't mind nodal compositing as such - I just hate the interface in Shake. It's so damn clunky and non-standard. It's like an SGI app.

It's the little things - like lack of support for scrollwheel mice and non-standard file requesters - that I find really annoying. It's undeniably a very powerful toolbox, I just wish the interface was a bit more intuitive, slick and refined.

Steamthrower
06-12-2009, 09:07 AM
I'd have to echo what dsol says in regards to the interface...it's as if it's an Apple product that actually isn't an Apple product.

Apparently they are going to release their new compositor pretty soon (used to be code named Phenomenon). This will render Shake unsupported, but still, it's pretty good. I tend to gravitate towards After Effects or Motion for the cheapo stuff we tend to do.

The nodal structure isn't really that different...if you've used Apple Color you'll find it very similar.

Scazzino
06-12-2009, 10:22 AM
I bought Shake when Apple dropped the price - I'd heard so many good things about it, it seemed a must-buy. Sadly, despite working my way through many tutorials I've come to the conclusion it's not my cup of tea. I don't mind nodal compositing as such - I just hate the interface in Shake. It's so damn clunky and non-standard. It's like an SGI app.

It's the little things - like lack of support for scrollwheel mice and non-standard file requesters - that I find really annoying. It's undeniably a very powerful toolbox, I just wish the interface was a bit more intuitive, slick and refined.

Absolutely, and I'll bet that had a lot to do with Apple's EOL'ing it for a newer solution that will hopefully be forthcoming (hopefully with a nice upgrade path). :thumbsup:

aidenvfx
06-12-2009, 10:55 AM
I'd have to echo what dsol says in regards to the interface...it's as if it's an Apple product that actually isn't an Apple product.

Apparently they are going to release their new compositor pretty soon (used to be code named Phenomenon). This will render Shake unsupported, but still, it's pretty good. I tend to gravitate towards After Effects or Motion for the cheapo stuff we tend to do.

The nodal structure isn't really that different...if you've used Apple Color you'll find it very similar.

You may be waiting a long time. Ron Brinkman one of the folks behind Shake left Apple and went over to "Nuke" because he does not believe Apple is the serious about being in the high end compositing market.

So it may happen but from what I have seen and now ILM has purchased a site "Nuke" license I really doubt Apple is going to bring out a new "Shake" product but "Motions" may just become Shake and be part of the FInal cut studio.

Scazzino
06-12-2009, 11:00 AM
You may be waiting a long time. Ron Brinkman one of the folks behind Shake left Apple and went over to "Nuke" because he does not believe Apple is the serious about being in the high end compositing market.

So it may happen but from what I have seen and now ILM has purchased a site "Nuke" license I really doubt Apple is going to bring out a new "Shake" product but "Motions" may just become Shake and be part of the FInal cut studio.

Right, I don't want a Shake replacement that is still all that much like Shake itself... (the interface is horrid) but rather the best concepts/power of Shake brought into a more Apple-like product and if it's part of Final Cut Studio with an upgrade path from the old Shake to FCS, then all the better! :hey:

BTW: I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason Ron left was that he wanted Shake to remain Shake while Apple wanted to morph it into (or replace it with) a more Apple-like product, which is the direction I hope they take.

Andyjaggy
06-12-2009, 11:16 AM
It's become increasingly obvious to me that Apple plans to invest most of their time in the consumer ipod market, not the professional graphics market.

That's where the money is and as much as many people would like to think Apple has higher ideals then just making money, sorry, they are out to make money.

Scazzino
06-12-2009, 11:17 AM
...sorry, they are out to make money.

Any company that isn't, won't be around very long... ;)

Andyjaggy
06-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Well true.

I would just be very surprised if they did come out with a Shake replacement, I don't think it would be profitable enough for them. When it's all said and done, CG is still very much a niche market. I don't think Apple is interested in Niche markets anymore.

bassmanjam
06-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Well true.

I don't think Apple is interested in Niche markets anymore.

True that.

Dexter2999
06-12-2009, 11:55 AM
I love that they still have a Linux version available...at ten times the price.

Scazzino
06-12-2009, 11:58 AM
...I don't think Apple is interested in Niche markets anymore.

High end Apple software pushes lots of high end Mac Pros... I don't see Apple abandoning such, after-all an 8-core Mac Pro is hardly mainstream consumer gear... ;)

My bet is Apple's holding their Pro App updates for the release of Snow Leopard since they will most likely significantly leverage the performance gains in Snow Leopard... We should see soon enough shortly after Snow Leopard is finally let loose... That should generate a nice upgrade demand for the newest Mac Pro's to take full advantage of Snow Leopard and the latest Pro apps. It's also not surprising that Apple may be waiting for the economy to turn as well... No sense making a big release when people are delaying their upgrades... better to make a big release once the worst of the economic crash is over and all that pent-up demand is finally ready to be satisfied.

:thumbsup:

Andyjaggy
06-12-2009, 12:29 PM
Well I disagree with you but time will tell!

Scazzino
06-12-2009, 01:06 PM
Yes it will! ;)

Mr Rid
06-12-2009, 02:10 PM
Nuke is better, but it's ten times the price, and if Shake was good enough for ILM to use for Pirates of the Caribbean 3...

BTW, ILM just bought a Nuke site license. Nuke has the most job opportunities. The learning edition is free and only has a watermark... or get a crack to learn on. If you learn it and do well working for yourself, it pays for itself. When you get a job at a house, they own the licenses.

CGI Addict
06-12-2009, 02:42 PM
BTW, ILM just bought a Nuke site license. Nuke has the most job opportunities. The learning edition is free and only has a watermark... or get a crack to learn on. If you learn it and do well working for yourself, it pays for itself. When you get a job at a house, they own the licenses.


Humm . . . free learning edition sounds very tempting. I don't mind the watermark as I'm just wanting to learn at this point.

bbuxton
06-12-2009, 10:14 PM
Right, I don't want a Shake replacement that is still all that much like Shake itself... (the interface is horrid) but rather the best concepts/power of Shake brought into a more Apple-like product and if it's part of Final Cut Studio with an upgrade path from the old Shake to FCS, then all the better! :hey:

BTW: I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason Ron left was that he wanted Shake to remain Shake while Apple wanted to morph it into (or replace it with) a more Apple-like product, which is the direction I hope they take.

I mentioned this on another thread but anyways

Have you thought of Conduit Live? www.dvgarage.com

It is standalone - and also has plugins for Motion FCP & FCE and After Effects and it is very cheap.
Although I prefer to work in Shake, Conduit for most tasks is certainly comparable

I don't want to sound like a walking advert but really my experience with it has been very good.

BB

toby
06-13-2009, 03:34 AM
I mentioned this on another thread but anyways

Have you thought of Conduit Live? www.dvgarage.com

It is standalone - and also has plugins for Motion FCP & FCE and After Effects and it is very cheap.
Although I prefer to work in Shake, Conduit for most tasks is certainly comparable

I don't want to sound like a walking advert but really my experience with it has been very good.
That's pretty f'in cool. They developed dvMatte which was used in some LOTR production, not a brand to be taken lightly.

dsol
06-13-2009, 07:42 AM
Part of the reason I don't like shake is the fact I'd used Conduit :) a really nice, slick interface. At the time it was very limited as there was a seriously small number of nodes/filters you had available in it (didn't even have a blur node!), but that's changed now I believe. I'm hoping that motion 4 will introduce a nodal compositor with that kind of interface - which would be sweet.

Sarford
06-14-2009, 06:41 PM
Just had a look at the IBK keyer in Nuke. Wow, that is some powerfull keyer, much better (and faster!) than the Keylight and Primatte versions in Shake.
Still, Shake is very powerfull and its relativly fast to build complex effects. I still enjoy working is Shake.

Dexter2999
06-14-2009, 10:52 PM
BTW, ILM just bought a Nuke site license. Nuke has the most job opportunities. The learning edition is free and only has a watermark... or get a crack to learn on. If you learn it and do well working for yourself, it pays for itself. When you get a job at a house, they own the licenses.

Hmmm...Nuke at $3500 ($1000 more if you want support). I bought a copy of SHAKE on ebay for $275 with shipping. Maybe it isn't as pretty, but for that price I can deal with it.

Anyway, I know I sound like a shill but http://fxphd.com/
Check it out.

toby
06-14-2009, 11:00 PM
Anyway, I know I sound like a shill but http://fxphd.com/
Check it out.
Is that *free* training??

Ok finally found something that says 'pay'
But of course you have to go through the entire registration process to see how much. Any idea Dexter?

Dexter2999
06-14-2009, 11:15 PM
Yeah, It's $340 a term. That is for three classes. So, if you want to learn NUKE, Fusion, and Shake. You can learn all three at the same time. Or learn editing or RED camera workflow. Their classes are set up like University. You can't take just one and you can't take NUKE 101, 201, and 301 at the same time. I see where the Foundry has some NUKE training available on their site but I haven't checked it out yet.

But no, it is far from free.

toby
06-14-2009, 11:27 PM
I've been checking out the classes, very tempting, like digital color theory. Nuke would awesome too. If I can find another one that I can really use I'll sign up. I've actually worked with their Nuke teacher on a few commercials, really nice guy and very talented.

Do you need to have access to the software that they're teaching with? Saw something about vpn -

toby
06-14-2009, 11:39 PM
I see -

We provide downloads and VPN licensing of the following applications as part of fxphd:

• Cinema 4D Release 11
• Maya 2009 Unlimited on Linux/Windows/OSX
• PFTrack 5 from The Pixel Farm - Linux/Windows/OSX
• Fusion 5 from Eyeon Software
• Nuke 5 from The Foundry - Linux/Windows/OSX
• Massive - Windows XP, Linux (32bit: FC2, FC4, FC8, RHEL 5, RH9 64bit: FC2, FC4, FC8)

Thanks for bringing this up!

Dexter2999
06-14-2009, 11:58 PM
If you to the NUKE training page at the bottom are some Quicktimes of the FXPHD training course for NUKE. I haven't watched them all and I don't think it is the entire course but hey...it is free.

dsol
06-15-2009, 07:44 AM
Nuke looks pretty neat. That IBK keyer is really nifty - though I imagine you could build a similar effect in shake. Mmm... maybe I'll give shake another chance. It is damn powerful. I just wish you could mix and match different applications for different tasks more easily - like nesting a live shake comp in an aftereffects project (or final cut project). Motion can do this via the clever conceit of having a custom Quicktime component, which allows rendering in other apps.

Liber777
06-15-2009, 12:54 PM
High end Apple software pushes lots of high end Mac Pros... I don't see Apple abandoning such, after-all an 8-core Mac Pro is hardly mainstream consumer gear... ;)

I keep flirting with buying one of these Mac Pros, but...

Just checked the web site; the current graphics card choices are still horribly underpowered for a content creation workstation. The last generation of Mac Pros was much better than the prior one in that regard, but this round is back to being disappointing again.

Sarford
06-15-2009, 06:28 PM
I keep flirting with buying one of these Mac Pros, but...

Just checked the web site; the current graphics card choices are still horribly underpowered for a content creation workstation. The last generation of Mac Pros was much better than the prior one in that regard, but this round is back to being disappointing again.

You can now finaly but seperate cards for the mac again. Nvidia released a GTX 285 for the mac. No problem to update your card.

Sarford
06-15-2009, 06:41 PM
Toby, if you wanna do a course on Nuke, maybe you can take a look at this course:

http://workshops.cgsociety.org/courses/000107/

Its given by Steve Wright, and that guy knows a helluvalot about compositing.
I did his Shake course, and I can honesly say it was the best course I've done sofar.
He is also a very nice chap.

Take a look at the nuke video over at the foundry website to see a snipped of what to expect.

The course is more expensive than the fxphd, but you'll get a ****load of video's which is you can use for reference later.

I only own Shake and that fits my needs for now so I don't need Nuke (yet). But if I did, I would already have signed up :D

toby
06-15-2009, 08:31 PM
Thanks but I really want that color theory class, it's more fundamental. Still worth considering though, you never know enough cg!!

dsol
06-16-2009, 09:01 AM
Just checked the web site; the current graphics card choices are still horribly underpowered for a content creation workstation.

Yeah, as Sarford pointed out you can buy a decent third party gfx card for mac pros (2008-2009 models). Ars link here (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/06/evga-geforce-gtx-285-now-available-for-compatible-mac-pros.ars). Given the high-end nature of the rest of the components in the macpro and it's target market/uses, it's scandalous that Apple provides such feeble GPU options. Of course, once Snow Leopard is released (with GCD and OpenCL support), then it might end up being beneficial to stick a couple of cheaper GPUS in your macpro instead of one large expensive one.

Liber777
06-16-2009, 12:15 PM
You can now finaly but seperate cards for the mac again. Nvidia released a GTX 285 for the mac. No problem to update your card.

Awesome! Very cool; now that's more like it! I see it at the Apple store.