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Yigor
06-01-2009, 10:45 AM
Hello everybody,

i am new to the whole LW thing... So I hope i may get some answers here :)...

I am applying a surface to an object. Now i want to change the surface "on the fly" while doing an animation. Is this possible? Or do i have to take one take with the one surface and one take with the other surface and blend those takes together in something like adobe premiere or so?

background is, that i wanna switch from one surface which show the wireframe outline only to a full textured object.

Thanks in advance for any helpful reply :)

4dartist
06-01-2009, 11:52 AM
You can do it on the fly in LW for the most part.

In any of the channels like, Color, Transparency, Bump, etc. First add your layers of your first texture. Then add the layers of your second texture under them. Then as you want to transition between the textures, just animate the opacity of the top texture. You do this by clicking the 'E' for envelope, next to the opacity, when you have the target texture selected.

When you hit E the graph editor will pop up. Put a key at 100% to see it, then a key at 0% on the frame you want it completely gone showing

Doing the transition in post might make life easier, especially in a program like After Effects. It may be difficult/annoying in Premier.

Let me know if you have any questions and I can elaborate more.

Yigor
06-01-2009, 01:39 PM
You can do it on the fly in LW for the most part.

In any of the channels like, Color, Transparency, Bump, etc. First add your layers of your first texture. Then add the layers of your second texture under them. Then as you want to transition between the textures, just animate the opacity of the top texture. You do this by clicking the 'E' for envelope, next to the opacity, when you have the target texture selected.

When you hit E the graph editor will pop up. Put a key at 100% to see it, then a key at 0% on the frame you want it completely gone showing

Doing the transition in post might make life easier, especially in a program like After Effects. It may be difficult/annoying in Premier.

Let me know if you have any questions and I can elaborate more.


Thank you for your fast reply. it works when i try to switch surfaces like you proposed.

But there is still one question open for me: Is it possible to turn on / off the "render outlines" option when doing an animation?

Many thanks again :)

SplineGod
06-01-2009, 02:01 PM
If you need to actually blend multiple surfaces that have completely different attributes it can be done using the surfmix shader that comes with LW. There are a couple of options for rendering outlines such as the Unreal shader and BESM which MIGHT give that kind of control.

Yigor
06-01-2009, 02:08 PM
If you need to actually blend multiple surfaces that have completely different attributes it can be done using the surfmix shader that comes with LW. There are a couple of options for rendering outlines such as the Unreal shader and BESM which MIGHT give that kind of control.

Thank you too!

Ill give this a try and report back.

toby
06-01-2009, 02:12 PM
Make duplicate objects and set one as the morph target (and hide it), then you can Morph Surfaces.

4dartist
06-01-2009, 02:12 PM
Where exactly is 'render outlines'? I can't find that option. Or do you mean the stuff under the 'object properties' then under the 'edges' tab? If you mean those edge options, there isn't a way to animate it that I know of.

I bet there are some other ways to get polygon outlines to render other than the edge tab. There has to be some decent plugins that do it, that you can fade out the effect over time... maybe. If not, then you just may have to do it in post. Premier can handle it if you are just fading between one render to another. For example one render with full textures, and another render of wire frames. But if you need to actually composite, like putting a background, foreground, and effects together to complete a shot, it's bad for that stuff.

Splinegods suggestions sounds like a great place to look.

4dartist
06-01-2009, 02:14 PM
Make duplicate objects and set one as the morph target (and hide it), then you can Morph Surfaces.

Whoa for real? If you make 2 objects, with different surfaces, set the 2nd as a morph target then hide, then morph over time the 1st will change surface characteristics over time? Like if 1st was reflective and 2nd wasn't?

I just figured it would morph the geometry not the texture. I haven't done morphs with separate objects in years.

Yigor
06-01-2009, 02:20 PM
Where exactly is 'render outlines'? I can't find that option.

Its under the surface edit, advanced tab. its name is just render outlines...

i am just playing around with the shaders, but surfmix isnt the one to go, maybe i am lucky using those other two... will report back!

and real big thank you to all replies here! i wish every community would be that nice and helpful!!! :)

Yigor
06-01-2009, 02:22 PM
Make duplicate objects and set one as the morph target (and hide it), then you can Morph Surfaces.

uh, i am not that deep into LW right now, but ill keep this in mind :)

toby
06-01-2009, 03:00 PM
Whoa for real? If you make 2 objects, with different surfaces, set the 2nd as a morph target then hide, then morph over time the 1st will change surface characteristics over time? Like if 1st was reflective and 2nd wasn't?

I just figured it would morph the geometry not the texture. I haven't done morphs with separate objects in years.
Yea morph targets were old when I started lw in 2000 :) but they still have their uses

It's easy, go to object properites/deform tab, under the 'Morph Target' list select the other object, and click the Morph Surfaces button - but it will be greyed out until you add some Morph amount or an envelope.

SplineGod
06-01-2009, 03:11 PM
Surfmix is the most powerful of the surface mixing options because you can use
textures, weight maps etc to do the blending. You can even blend areas that have reflection blurring etc.

toby
06-01-2009, 03:27 PM
Surfmix is the most powerful of the surface mixing options because you can use
textures, weight maps etc to do the blending. You can even blend areas that have reflection blurring etc.
Yea it's awesome, you can blend with a procedural too. I just forgot it could handle outlines :)

Yigor
06-01-2009, 03:33 PM
Yea it's awesome, you can blend with a procedural too. I just forgot it could handle outlines :)

Hmm, maybe you can push me into the right direction on how to use the surfmix shader to blend from a textured object surface to wireframe and vice versa...

i already tried to, but when i transition from one texture to another the "render outlines" from the advanced surface tab is not working...

at least not when i try :)...

toby
06-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Hmm, maybe you can push me into the right direction on how to use the surfmix shader to blend from a textured object surface to wireframe and vice versa...

i already tried to, but when i transition from one texture to another the "render outlines" from the advanced surface tab is not working...

at least not when i try :)...
uhoh
hold on

Yigor
06-01-2009, 03:42 PM
uhoh
hold on

i do :)

SplineGod
06-01-2009, 03:50 PM
Another interesting thing to try with surfmix is using Dponts Nodetexture procedural which will allow nodal to be used for the surface blending. :)

toby
06-01-2009, 03:54 PM
Doesn't look like it will work, sorry about that. Morph surface doesn't support this either. You may as well use the ghetto method - use two objects and dissolve one out and the other in.

Object properties/Render/Object dissolve.

Yigor
06-01-2009, 03:54 PM
Another interesting thing to try with surfmix is using Dponts Nodetexture procedural which will allow nodal to be used for the surface blending. :)

woha :), this is like spanish to me, i am not that far into LW yet... i didnt use the node model yet cause i seems a little confusing atm, but i try to read the manual about it...

Yigor
06-01-2009, 03:58 PM
Doesn't look like it will work, sorry about that. Morph surface doesn't support this either. You may as well use the ghetto method - use two objects and dissolve one out and the other in.

Object properties/Render/Object dissolve.

yep, will try that, i just tried something similiar with object properties -> edges -> enable all edge drawings and then enveloping the transparency under surface to zero over time... still not optimal but better than nothing...

also think, the ghetto method will do... or i do two takes and put them togehter in premiere or after effects...

thanks for all the help :)

SplineGod
06-01-2009, 04:03 PM
You can also create outlines using gradients, duplicate/inverted objects and 2 point polys.
It eepends exactly on what you need to do.

Yigor
06-01-2009, 04:13 PM
You can also create outlines using gradients, duplicate/inverted objects and 2 point polys.
It eepends exactly on what you need to do.

ok, i would like to try that, problem is that i am not able to perform this with my little knowledge about LW...

I would be very thankful if you could do a more step by step thing for me... but only if you are willing and have the time...

SplineGod
06-01-2009, 05:34 PM
Perhaps you could post a more detailed explanation of what exactly youre trying to accomplish. This would help us provide other options. techniques or tools that might be more helpful :)

Yigor
06-02-2009, 03:59 AM
Perhaps you could post a more detailed explanation of what exactly youre trying to accomplish. This would help us provide other options. techniques or tools that might be more helpful :)

I have a model (its something like a neon light)... the model is shown in a cameray flight from several perspectives... the model is shown as wireframe...

when the camera flies by i would like to change the model from its wireframe view to a fully textured view...

many thanks in advance for further helpful tips! :)

SplineGod
06-02-2009, 05:09 AM
Render out the scene in wireframe mode and render out another version fully textured etc.
Use a compositing program to blend from one to the other.
If you dont have a compositing program you can do it in LW by mapping both rendered animations onto a polygon and using an envelope in the layer opacity of the top layer to dissolve to the bottom layer.

joelaff
06-03-2009, 01:53 PM
I would do it in the comp... That way you can quickly adjust the timing or opacity without a long re-render.