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ige
05-26-2009, 04:30 PM
Why does LW9,6 crash when I apply a material node (carpaint/dielectric) and use FPrime3,2?

Hopper
05-26-2009, 05:18 PM
FPrime + Nodes = no worky.

Never has.

Lightwolf
05-26-2009, 05:32 PM
FPrime + Nodes = no worky.

Never has.
Not quite... FPrime and new nodes (since 9.2) won't work. Which incidentally is the time materials were introduced.

Cheers,
Mike

jasonwestmas
05-26-2009, 06:02 PM
You have to use LW 9.3.1 in order to use Nodes with Fprime. Worley is working on the update for 9.6x

Hopper
05-26-2009, 06:33 PM
Seriously?

Event the most basic of nodes craps out my FPrime (3.2) on 9.3.1. Maybe that's why I suck at texturing so much. I'm not a big fan of how the layer system is implemented, but I also can't see texturing anything without FPrime open.

jasonwestmas
05-26-2009, 06:48 PM
The only issue I have had with Fprime3.2 is with the Sigma node but that happened only with one scene. It worked in other cases. Works great and is fully interactive with my two computers. There are some gotchas of course but they have nothing to do with the surfacing parameters in nodal.

Lightwolf
05-26-2009, 06:49 PM
...but I also can't see texturing anything without FPrime open.
Darn it, you really make me feel old now ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Nicolas Jordan
05-26-2009, 08:43 PM
Fprime is nice but I try not to rely on it as much as I used to especially when having to work with nodes.

Hopper
05-26-2009, 09:19 PM
Darn it, you really make me feel old now ;)

Well it's habit for me now and I don't absolutely 'have' to have it, but when you're a beginner it's a must have. When you're not sure what you're doing it gets extremely frustrating to attempt surfacing using Viper, then wait a couple of minutes to render out a result just to see if you're close. And when you're just starting on a 1.9GHz single core system, even the simplest of renders may take 10 minutes. I almost quit alltogether until I saw a tutorial with someone using FPrime. After that, life was good.

Well, if everyone else seems to be trucking along with nodes in 9.3.1, I might have to call Worley and see wtf I'm doing so horribly wrong to make it crash so much. Something between the chair and keyboard is obviously F'd up.

Nicolas Jordan
05-26-2009, 09:36 PM
Well, if everyone else seems to be trucking along with nodes in 9.3.1, I might have to call Worley and see wtf I'm doing so horribly wrong to make it crash so much.

If I remember correctly I think at one point in time fprime didn't get along well with the Shift camera with 9.2 and 9.3.1. If you don't use the Shift camera must be something else then.

Jockomo
05-26-2009, 09:40 PM
Darn it, you really make me feel old now ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Heh, yea no kidding. You new folks try this, switch all of your viewports to wireframe mode. Now imagine that is the only view mode you have, oh besides bounding box.

biliousfrog
05-27-2009, 02:33 AM
FPrime has it's uses but it's not much good as a previewer anymore with 9.6. 9 times out of 10 it will be faster to render previews out of Lightwave...Sell FPrime and buy a faster processor ;)

Panikos
05-27-2009, 04:19 AM
FPrime has it's uses but it's not much good as a previewer anymore with 9.6. 9 times out of 10 it will be faster to render previews out of Lightwave...Sell FPrime and buy a faster processor ;)

I believe the opposite :lightwave

JML
05-27-2009, 07:06 AM
FPrime has it's uses but it's not much good as a previewer anymore with 9.6. 9 times out of 10 it will be faster to render previews out of Lightwave...Sell FPrime and buy a faster processor ;)

agree,
It was crucial before, but with 9.6 final gather, I rarely use it anymore..
but if it stops crashing with nodes then it might become more useful again
as nodes can be complicated..

jasonwestmas
05-27-2009, 08:50 AM
FPrime has it's uses but it's not much good as a previewer anymore with 9.6. 9 times out of 10 it will be faster to render previews out of Lightwave...Sell FPrime and buy a faster processor ;)
Fprime's advantage is about NOT disrupting your work flow, not about processor and rendering speed. (Even though Fprime does render faster).
I don't get interactive previewing with F9 even on a quad core. With complex surfacing I have to press F9, wait for 2 minutes at low quality settings till it finishes rendering and click the continue button. Then I have to wait 5 seconds for the status window to disappear, observe my render, change settings, and then wait another 2 minutes for the render to finish again. With Fprime the only buttons you have to use are the surface and lighting settings, and most importantly you don't have to get a finished render in order to get feeback to know which settings you have to change.

garynb
05-27-2009, 09:36 AM
At least you have a version of FPrime you can use with 9.6, sitting here on a mac wishing.

Cheers
Gary

Sensei
05-27-2009, 10:37 AM
At least you have a version of FPrime you can use with 9.6, sitting here on a mac wishing.

Why? ;)
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95330
It worked even faster with similar CPU than on Windows.. ;)

twine
05-27-2009, 10:55 AM
All of the IFW2 nodes seem ok with FPrime, theres even an occlusion node and that works ok too!

adamredwoods
05-27-2009, 11:43 AM
I don't get interactive previewing with F9 even on a quad core. With complex surfacing I have to press F9, wait for 2 minutes at low quality settings till it finishes rendering and click the continue button. Then I have to wait 5 seconds for the status window to disappear, observe my render, change settings, and then wait another 2 minutes for the render to finish again.

You're talking about one of the biggest problems I'm having with 3D CG in general. It takes too long to iterate the test render process. Viper is ok for some textures, but gives inaccurate lighting results.

We're all waiting for FPrime. Nothing against Sensei's truepreviewer, but you've priced it higher than fprime and you'll need some sensational promotional images to really give confidence in the product.

My time is more and more limited everyday. Speeding up that rendering iteration process could really save some serious sleeping time.

stevecullum
05-27-2009, 11:59 AM
We're all waiting for FPrime. Nothing against Sensei's truepreviewer, but you've priced it higher than fprime and you'll need some sensational promotional images to really give confidence in the product.

I mainly use FPrime for previewing my lighting setups and without it, it would be tedious F9ing it all the time.

Sensei's previewer looks like a real competitor and the support for nodes is great, but as mentioned its way too pricey to make me want to ditch Fprime.

toby
05-27-2009, 01:29 PM
I stopped using Fprime and just do test-renders. Fprime doesn't save previous renders for direct comparison like the image viewer does, and once you get to the point of tweaking, that is a must. It also takes FPrime a lot longer to refine to the point where you can judge fine-tuning anyway, and if you do the wrong thing - whoops, it refreshes and dumps your render. That and the subtle loss of stability, pauses / sluggishness when moving something and all the things it doesn't display just make it a waste of time for me.

adamredwoods
05-27-2009, 05:20 PM
I stopped using Fprime and just do test-renders.

Is there a way to set a function key to do a quick-render setting? Liek predefined render settings with f10, then HQ settings on f9? That would be acceptable.

toby
05-27-2009, 05:53 PM
Is there a way to set a function key to do a quick-render setting? Liek predefined render settings with f10, then HQ settings on f9? That would be acceptable.

I've always wanted that! I don't remember if I tried lscript commander, but it wouldn't surprise me if something didn't work. But actually I change my settings too much to use a preset, I'm never satisfied!

BTW I get test render times of less than a minute on my old G5, you just have to limit what you're rendering to what you're tweaking. Turn off radiosity and raytracing if you're testing aa settings and vice-versa, use limited region, render selected object etc. Not trying to talk you out of fprime though :^)

bjornkn
05-27-2009, 06:05 PM
You could always clone your camera, set it to use faster/smaller settings, and parent it to the "real" camera?
BTW, what frustrates me the most with FPime is the total silence from Worley. Never any news about it, if they're working on a fix, when it'll be released etc. He may be a programming genius (as many claim), but he certainly isn't a marketing genius...

toby
05-27-2009, 06:32 PM
Hey it looks like lscript commander can access plenty of commands. Radiosity settings, raytracing, ray recursion, etc. Some commands like Unseen by Camera are tricky because they're just a toggle; same command on or off. But it could still do what you want, you'll have to open the .ls in a text editor if you want to tweak the preset though.

toby
05-27-2009, 07:17 PM
Try this one

You could have a script for each low and hi settings and have each one mapped to a key. You could also put
RenderScene();
at the end of your hi settings script, then map it to F10, so it does it all at once. Fun stuff!

Oh I forgot, lscript commander creates ("") on commands with no values like toggles, which causes an error. Just delete the quotes, ().

mav3rick
05-28-2009, 02:11 AM
You have to use LW 9.3.1 in order to use Nodes with Fprime. Worley is working on the update for 9.6x

for ages not to tell infinity... and once we were *****in NEWTEK is slow... time is changing.... why noone ***** on WORLEY now?


***** is b*i*t*c*h*i*n

biliousfrog
05-28-2009, 02:32 AM
Fprime's advantage is about NOT disrupting your work flow, not about processor and rendering speed. (Even though Fprime does render faster).
I don't get interactive previewing with F9 even on a quad core. With complex surfacing I have to press F9, wait for 2 minutes at low quality settings till it finishes rendering and click the continue button. Then I have to wait 5 seconds for the status window to disappear, observe my render, change settings, and then wait another 2 minutes for the render to finish again. With Fprime the only buttons you have to use are the surface and lighting settings, and most importantly you don't have to get a finished render in order to get feeback to know which settings you have to change.

I'd find it pretty disruptive to alter my lighting/surfacing so that I could use FPrime...no material nodes, no advanced lights, no shaders. It still has it's place but I find it so restrictive and the previewer takes so long to refine now that I stick to Lightwave's native renderer, it's faster and looks nicer IMO.

Panikos
05-28-2009, 04:39 AM
Rome took ages to build and 3 days to destroy.
Some people think that developing takes an afternoon.

hrgiger
05-28-2009, 07:05 AM
Looks like Modos previewer in 401 has finally topped Fprime and it seems to work with all the different surface shaders and volumetric lights. I bought Fprime last year because Worley said they were still updating it but I'm still waiting on that.

Panikos
05-28-2009, 07:46 AM
"Volumetric Lights" : Since they were introduced, almost nothing changed.
Nor anybody touched them in the recent 9.6 SDK update and apparently we wont see them in FPrime :(

adamredwoods
05-28-2009, 12:07 PM
Hey it looks like lscript commander can access plenty of commands. Radiosity settings, raytracing, ray recursion, etc. Some commands like Unseen by Camera are tricky because they're just a toggle; same command on or off. But it could still do what you want, you'll have to open the .ls in a text editor if you want to tweak the preset though.

This and the duplicate camera are great suggestions.

My current process is to start off with low AA and poor GI, small render (640x480), then gradually increase settings as I get surfaces finalized. The GI gives a quick preview, which is nice to catch obvious mistakes.

mav3rick
05-28-2009, 04:50 PM
Rome took ages to build and 3 days to destroy.
Some people think that developing takes an afternoon.

exactly in worley case well i do not ask for any features but to make it work again with nodes... does that need a year to code? i guess not since trueart already make it work in truehair previewer.... kray support nodes and i guess why worley not....

Panikos
05-28-2009, 11:26 PM
I am not Worley's advocate or embasador, but I rely on him that he always does more that he ought to

mav3rick
05-29-2009, 03:45 AM
I am not Worley's advocate or embasador, but I rely on him that he always does more that he ought to

good to know that for a moment you fooled me :)

Greenlaw
05-30-2009, 11:28 PM
I stopped using Fprime and just do test-renders. Fprime doesn't save previous renders for direct comparison like the image viewer does...

I just hit pause and then open a second Fprime window and compare that to the paused one. You can have up to four Fprime previewer windows open at a time, paused or unpaused.

Greenlaw

toby
05-31-2009, 01:41 AM
I just hit pause and then open a second Fprime window and compare that to the paused one. You can have up to four Fprime previewer windows open at a time, paused or unpaused.

Greenlaw
Yea I tried that, but there's nothing like toggling between images in the image viewer, you can see the tiniest differences. It has all the other 3d apps beat too.