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karlieman
05-24-2009, 05:07 PM
Does any one know how to make fire and explosions like in FumeFx?

SplineGod
05-24-2009, 06:23 PM
Do you have a particular example in mind?

prometheus
05-24-2009, 09:59 PM
Well fume fx is a fluid fire and smoke engine, and the only thing available in lightwave is Dynamite, and that plugin is probably dead in the water it seems, and quality and support was bad, including bugs.

So I really donīt think you can match fume fx with lightwave, and youll have to look for the stars if you wait for fluids to happen in lightwave in years it seems.( thinking back to when flowline showed its fire and fluids and was pushing newtek to get on the boat about fluids several years ago)

Download yourself Houdini apprentice and take a look att some of the pyrofx tools in there itīs free, and you can upgrade to different starving versions.
http://www.sidefx.com/

The full Houdini version is probably to expensive for most people, but if you learn it well and with other talents you might end up at a studio using it.

Otherwise hypervoxels, particles, and real fire clips mapped on particles or composite is probably the best thing I guess in lightwave, but it wonīt match fume fx in realism and dynamic interactivity.

Ohh..I got an mail from sitni satni..and he wonīt be developing fume fx for other platforms since no one seems to be serious about spending time and money in it, and I asked about it due to the upcoming lightwave core.

http://www.vimeo.com/user680656/videos

Michael

SplineGod
05-25-2009, 03:49 AM
Ive seen some nice stuff from fumefx but Ive also seen people do some amazing things with particles and HVs. I ususally try and get a good idea of the particular effect someone is after and see if its doable in LW or not.
For example this was done with LW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnzfeyc-bH4

prometheus
05-25-2009, 07:32 AM
Ive seen some nice stuff from fumefx but Ive also seen people do some amazing things with particles and HVs. I ususally try and get a good idea of the particular effect someone is after and see if its doable in LW or not.
For example this was done with LW.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnzfeyc-bH4

Yepp Mr rid is doing some of the best stuff of that, including that fireball smoke over a city, all with particles and hv:s.
But it also takes some postprocessing mostly to get it right.

Battlestar galactica fireīs and explosions are fine too and fits the purpose for a space drama, but it is often a combination of real fire clips too.
The 24 nukeīs and explosion are all good to.

But I still think fume fx and such tools as houdinis pyro fx fluids is at
another level in looks and reality, and itīs a level that lightwaves tools
today canīt match for creating very high end stuff.
Just look at the demo vids at sidefx
and it would be fair to say, no way lightwave can pull this off with hypervoxels and particles.

Michael

SplineGod
05-25-2009, 03:34 PM
No doubt. Im not arguing that. From a practical standpoint it makes sense to determine at which level someone needs fire explosion effects and go from there. Ive seen a lot of effects that could be done in LW and some that require something higher end. :)

SAHiN
05-25-2009, 08:39 PM
yes.. I also want a software package that behaves like a replicator out of Federation starships..

Computer, Nuklear explosion, HOT, with a black smoke to go with it.!!

prometheus
05-26-2009, 12:47 AM
No doubt. Im not arguing that. From a practical standpoint it makes sense to determine at which level someone needs fire explosion effects and go from there. Ive seen a lot of effects that could be done in LW and some that require something higher end. :)

Yepp you nailed it, absolutly... for some shotīs lightwaves hv:s and particles are ideal to do in lightwave, ergo space booms and missile hits are executed well in lightwave with a good artists eye.

Itīs almost like if youré using a certain method, it gives a certain characteristic effect.

Oily carbombs migh be very ideal for fluids,or fire on a character or house on fire, while space explosions and rocket trails and missile hits are better of with Hv:s

shotīs with highly interactive characteristic dynamics are probably best of with fluids.

Michael

Mr Rid
05-26-2009, 12:56 AM
At Pixel Magic, we recently evaluated FumeFX in Max and I dont think we will ever try to do smoke in LW again.:tongue: Afterburn is the compliment to FumeFX to accomplish all kinds of great looking explosion FX.

prometheus
05-26-2009, 06:19 AM
At Pixel Magic, we recently evaluated FumeFX in Max and I dont think we will ever try to do smoke in LW again.:tongue: Afterburn is the compliment to FumeFX to accomplish all kinds of great looking explosion FX.

Thankīs Mr Rid:thumbsup:

Ivé been waiting for a statement from you about that since I knew you
were evaluating fumefx.

Unfortunatly I havenīt had a chance to try it out yet, I have to check it out with someone whos using max.

Most things Ivé heard about it is positive, and renders and sims shown are stunning, including Afterburn.
I do have some reluctant feelings about starting to use Max again thou, I got me some 3d courses in Max several years ago but prefered to use lightwave.

Ill probably start focusing more on houdini, the new pyro fx tools and simulations are sweet, and those new upres technology and distributed simulations for large scale simulations seems very effective and handy.

I havent tried houdini 10 out yet thou, since my hardware issues has
forced me to be out from 3d for several months now, I only tried the fluids
in houdini 9.

I have mailed sitni satni two times about developing fume fx for lightwave,
the first one some years ago even before lightwave core was revealed, that time he just stated that there was no current plans for lightwave.

I mailed him some weeks ago and asked again if the new Lightwave core technology and new code would make any difference, but he replied that
unforunatly people doesnīt seem serious in spending time and investing in it so the answer is no this time again.

Very nice of him to at least answer and give some explanations, the developer of dynamite fluid cantarcan never responses back for anything.

To bad Newtek doesnīt give a clearer roadmap on where fluids will go in lightwave, like if they discussed it with cantarcan on dynamite or scanline flowlines tools, or if they have shown interest of developing fume fx with
sitni satni.

Well meanwhile I will do my fluids by pouring cream in my coffe and film it swirling, and use that as a movie clip:)

Michael



I

Mr Rid
05-26-2009, 04:31 PM
Thankīs Mr Rid:thumbsup:

...
Well meanwhile I will do my fluids by pouring cream in my coffe and film it swirling, and use that as a movie clip:)


I

Shooting real elements is always my first consideration. :) You may at least get useful reference before wrestling with 3D.

I would agree that Houdini is preferable to the Max/Fume route. It is the most potent FX app and accompanied by the most job opportunities.

Cageman
05-26-2009, 05:24 PM
I mailed him some weeks ago and asked again if the new Lightwave core technology and new code would make any difference, but he replied that unforunatly people doesnīt seem serious in spending time and investing in it so the answer is no this time again.

First of all, there are some highend VFX studios signed up to CORE and are on the internal beta, so... the "seriousness" could easily reflect upon himself.

On the other hand, he may not have any info, so what did you expect? :)

I think it's very premature to ask a developer to support a platform that havn't even reached version 1 yet. Established LW-plugin devs is one thing; developers for other platforms... well... they need to see if CORE (in this case) is viable enough to support.

A better question would have been:

If CORE ends up with alot of users and since the SDK is said to be very open, would you consider a port for it?

If he says "no" on that... he might be seriously funded by AD.

:)



That said, FumeFX looks like the best off the shelf tool for what it does. I'm not totaly convinced that Houdini will offer the same stuff with ease of use. On the other hand, Houdini doesn't seem to have any limitations if you know your Mantra.

:)

prometheus
05-27-2009, 01:39 AM
First of all, there are some highend VFX studios signed up to CORE and are on the internal beta, so... the "seriousness" could easily reflect upon himself.

On the other hand, he may not have any info, so what did you expect? :)


I think it's very premature to ask a developer to support a platform that havn't even reached version 1 yet. Established LW-plugin devs is one thing; developers for other platforms... well... they need to see if CORE (in this case) is viable enough to support.

A better question would have been:

If CORE ends up with alot of users and since the SDK is said to be very open, would you consider a port for it?

If he says "no" on that... he might be seriously funded by AD.

:)



That said, FumeFX looks like the best off the shelf tool for what it does. I'm not totaly convinced that Houdini will offer the same stuff with ease of use. On the other hand, Houdini doesn't seem to have any limitations if you know your Mantra.

:)

Thatīs why Newtek should be in the starting block and initiate contact with him, if they already have started designing something better of their own, fine with me, would be nice to hear thou.

Well my mail to sitni satni was a little longer and I directed him to the core
site for all specs and such, and I gave him a hint that it seems to be a lot
of people here asking for fumefx for lightwave plus other things about what is currently available for lightwave such as dynamite, neither lightwave 9.6 or lightwave core was in his plans.

I donīt agree with you that it would be premature to ask about considerations for fume fx for core at this early stage, Maybe he just
cant make a decision on that at this early stage, but it might be good to
get the interest fuzz going and let him now whats up on the carpet, aswell as letting newtek know about the fuzz.
It would be better of thou if Newtek made some initial contacts instead
of me or others without a clue on how far the core progress has come.

Oboy I would like to know if ever discussions were initiated with Newtek
and flowline scanline,sitni satniīs fumefx, cantarcanīs dynamite and if so,
how these discussions were going?

Fumefx or houdini? well hard to tell for me since I havenīt tried fumefx out really, only getting second hand opinions.

Agreed thou that fumefx is probably much easier to use while houdini might
be much harder to understand with itīs node networks, itīs like you have
to go backwards maybe in houdini and start with some of the setup tools and break them down in itīs elements, it might be somewhat contraproductive if you donīt get to know the workflow well.

On the other hand Houdini seems transparent with itīs procedural workflow
wich brings much more power to what you can do, and itīs something that
many people seem to expect for lightwave core but with friendlier user interface, itīs gonna be challenging to se if they pull it of.

Job opportunities might be a lot more for houdini abroad, in sweden I suspect that 3d max still rule, and with that fume fx..

Edit...And maya fluids, but I believe that
will come to a change in a near future.

Michael

prometheus
05-27-2009, 03:11 AM
Whatever happened to that eddy fluids rumors?

and what else is maybe about to come for core?

Tim (aurora) Dunn
is working on his oto taca wich sounds interesting but in its early development still I guess, sounds promising thou.

Michael

marchermitte
05-30-2009, 06:41 AM
Might not be as good as Fume FX but you can still make decent stuffs in LW. Did you see Mr. Rid demo reel?
But I agree, I would love to see fluid dynamics integrated in LW. For me LW is the tool that allow me to do things FAST in most cases. It could be a little GEM for VFX studios if the pyro/dynamics were better.

prometheus
05-30-2009, 07:11 AM
Might not be as good as Fume FX but you can still make decent stuffs in LW. Did you see Mr. Rid demo reel?
But I agree, I would love to see fluid dynamics integrated in LW. For me LW is the tool that allow me to do things FAST in most cases. It could be a little GEM for VFX studios if the pyro/dynamics were better.

Well yeah..Dynamite was promising, repeat..Was promising, support and updates and development seems to have stopped, so Ill forget about that one.

The fluid shader was actually pretty decent and easy to setup compared to mayas fluid and also the fact that you could get faster previews with viper,but other than that it was more job to simply set it up adding nulls as containers and selecting it from the menu and then adding geometry for fluid emitters..way to slow workflow,
and itīs missing some vital things as controlling the fluids with lightwaves wind dynamics and also no way to
integrate particles.

Quality wise it donīt seem to be good either.

Michael

marchermitte
05-30-2009, 09:40 AM
Yeap... the rendering id bugged, new release crashes LW in 32 bit, lots of missing features and the developper doesn't even care answering any messages at all. Close to a scam to me. It's a pity, after Zoic used It on 24 I thought It would motivate him...

djlithium
12-26-2009, 04:30 AM
I have already covered much of what is discussed here about FumeFX with the developer (talked to him 4 years ago). His attitude is that the 3D app company should pay him for development and then he sells the plug-in with nothing going back to the company out of those profits, but instead gets to keep all that money for himself.
Cute.

But have no fear, while Dynamite is dead, there is some hope on the horizon as "Bukadan" is in development for Lightwave 9.6 (.1). It will retail for about the same price as dynamite, work much like dynamite (so you don't have to learn a whole new system over again) but render properly and calculate CFD much faster. It's been kept as close as possible to Dynamite for ease of use reasons but it won't suck like Dynamite does in certain areas. I can't really say much more about it, but its going to be the beginning of several new plug-ins for Lightwave (NOT CORE, but LIGHTWAVE!) adding or replacing systems or tools that used to be around but died off.

Next on our list is physics stuff but I can't tell you anything about that because of some pretty heavy NDA ****.

djlithium
12-26-2009, 04:31 AM
Here is a great example of what you can do in LW and Fusion plus a few images here and there.
I will be covering this in my next webinar today https://www2.gotomeeting.com/register/964860019

Go there to register.

prometheus
12-26-2009, 03:10 PM
But have no fear, while Dynamite is dead, there is some hope on the horizon as "Bukadan" is in development for Lightwave 9.6 (.1). It will retail for about the same price as dynamite, work much like dynamite (so you don't have to learn a whole new system over again) but render properly and calculate CFD much faster. It's been kept as close as possible to Dynamite for ease of use reasons but it won't suck like Dynamite does in certain areas. I can't really say much more about it, but its going to be the beginning of several new plug-ins for Lightwave (NOT CORE, but LIGHTWAVE!) adding or replacing systems or tools that used to be around but died off.

Next on our list is physics stuff but I can't tell you anything about that because of some pretty heavy NDA ****.

Now that sounds interesting.
Bukada? never heard about it before, It would be extremly interesting
if it is for the lw 9 cycle, without having to wait for core.


Michael

GraphXs
12-26-2009, 05:13 PM
Bukada? "BomB" KaBooomm! Can't wait!

GraphXs
12-26-2009, 05:16 PM
Ooooooh....and physics...is it the return of Jay3D?

Still seems like Lightwave will have some nice new toys for it!:thumbsup:

Thank you for the support!:lwicon:

prometheus
12-27-2009, 06:57 AM
Nahh..bukadan must be vaporware right?

I heard someone state that Lightwave 9.6 was really pushed as far
it could go, so that makes no sense that someone actually comes up with
a fluid solution for the 9.6 cycle isnīt it:D

( I just felt to be a little sarcastic:devil:)

Michael

erikals
12-27-2009, 09:37 AM
I have already covered much of what is discussed here about FumeFX with the developer (talked to him 4 years ago). His attitude is that the 3D app company should pay him for development and then he sells the plug-in with nothing going back to the company out of those profits, but instead gets to keep all that money for himself.
Cute.

But have no fear, while Dynamite is dead, there is some hope on the horizon as "Bukadan" is in development for Lightwave 9.6 (.1). It will retail for about the same price as dynamite, work much like dynamite (so you don't have to learn a whole new system over again) but render properly and calculate CFD much faster. It's been kept as close as possible to Dynamite for ease of use reasons but it won't suck like Dynamite does in certain areas. I can't really say much more about it, but its going to be the beginning of several new plug-ins for Lightwave (NOT CORE, but LIGHTWAVE!) adding or replacing systems or tools that used to be around but died off.

Next on our list is physics stuff but I can't tell you anything about that because of some pretty heavy NDA ****.

Bukadan? interesting, hope to see it released. http://forums.cgsociety.org/images/smilies/smile.gif

physics stuff? Bullet based?
is user Jay3D working on that project?

geo_n
12-27-2009, 09:22 PM
Sounds very interesting. Some fresh plugins would be good. If blender can get some I hope lw is not left behind.