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MAUROCOR
05-18-2009, 09:53 AM
Hi, everybody!


I would like to learn more about doing good riggings with the new features of LW 9.6 but I donīt find good infos or tutorials... Where do I could find some?
Thanks in advance!

JeffrySG
05-18-2009, 10:04 AM
There are a bunch of free videos over here:
http://newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90089

CGI Addict
05-18-2009, 10:37 AM
Hey Maurocor, check this section out. RebelHill and others offer some great advice, tutorials, and commentary:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=276

MAUROCOR
05-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Thank you guys, very helpfull!!:thumbsup:

RebelHill
05-18-2009, 11:38 AM
lots of very deep, thorogh, etc tuts on their way soon for 9.6

many, many hours.

JeffrySG
05-18-2009, 12:15 PM
lots of very deep, thorogh, etc tuts on their way soon for 9.6

many, many hours.

Yeah? very cool - can't wait to see them!

Do you know if there will be any tuts for mechanical objects?

MAUROCOR
05-18-2009, 12:50 PM
lots of very deep, thorogh, etc tuts on their way soon for 9.6

many, many hours.



It is great to know that, RebelHill. There is a lot of new rigging features in LW 9.6 that some of us just donīt know what is for.
Some clarify would be excellent!
I was waiting for the Lino Gandi rigging tutorial but aparently he is very busy at the moment and I donīt know when it will be launched, so...
Waiting for good news!
:thumbsup:

RebelHill
05-18-2009, 01:45 PM
It is great to know that, RebelHill. There is a lot of new rigging features in LW 9.6 that some of us just donīt know what is for.
Some clarify would be excellent!
I was waiting for the Lino Gandi rigging tutorial but aparently he is very busy at the moment and I donīt know when it will be launched, so...
Waiting for good news!
:thumbsup:

Mine should be a couple weeks max.... It covers though not jsut the new features of 9.6... it covers EVERYTHING, and teaches you HOW to rig, as oppsed to jsut walking you through a single characters rig... lots on theory, lots on the under the hood stuff...

Ill also be posting some previews, and a couple of sections from it as freebies in the next couple days so as you can get an idea of whats gonna be included.

j0SH
05-18-2009, 06:36 PM
Mine should be a couple weeks max.... It covers though not jsut the new features of 9.6... it covers EVERYTHING, and teaches you HOW to rig, as oppsed to jsut walking you through a single characters rig... lots on theory, lots on the under the hood stuff...

Ill also be posting some previews, and a couple of sections from it as freebies in the next couple days so as you can get an idea of whats gonna be included.

look forward to checking it out

Stunt Pixels
05-18-2009, 07:04 PM
Mine should be a couple weeks max.... It covers though not jsut the new features of 9.6... it covers EVERYTHING, and teaches you HOW to rig, as oppsed to jsut walking you through a single characters rig... lots on theory, lots on the under the hood stuff...

Ill also be posting some previews, and a couple of sections from it as freebies in the next couple days so as you can get an idea of whats gonna be included.
This is going to be perfect timing... After seeing your rigs in action I'm sooo looking forward to this. Whatever it is, put me down for one!

Cageman
05-19-2009, 02:54 AM
Ill also be posting some previews, and a couple of sections from it as freebies in the next couple days so as you can get an idea of whats gonna be included.

Looking forward to it alot...

As a sidenote; something great is going on with the LW-community nowdays. Two people (you and Lino) are both producing some, what I believe will be the best, rigging tutorials for LW, to date. On the flipside of character rigging, 3d4me over at SpinQuad is making ALOT of very nice videos showing how nodes can be used in many ways for more technical rigging. Ontop of this, a new update to LW9.6 is on its way and of course CORE developements.

It's a very good time being a LW-user now!

:)

RebelHill
05-19-2009, 03:44 AM
...3d4me over at SpinQuad is making ALOT of very nice videos showing how nodes can be used in many ways for more technical rigging....

Ill have to check it out... but dude, seriously.... some of the nutty stuff ive see you doing and demoing in recent and past time with nodes and motion is freakin awsome... your appraoches and capabilities with "technical animation" in LW are astounding... whole buncha stuff I would have never thought of doing/trying/possible.

Otterman
05-19-2009, 05:54 AM
Cageman-Rebelhill you guys need to get a room hehe. Nah its great to see mutal respect between your fellow wavers. Ive seen both your work and i can learn alot from it trust me!

Character rigging isnt really something i get me hands dirty with but im more interested in the technical rigging.....Cageman-do you have a link to 3d4me stuff at SpinQuad?-i cant find it.

Cageman
05-19-2009, 07:55 AM
RebelHill,

Thanks alot! :) I mostly do technical rigging at work, so I end up trying out wierd stuff all the time. :D Most of what I have shown in my videos are basic things in terms of content, but trust me, at work I throw these techniques at real production situations and they hold up very well. I wouldn't want to show off techniques that can't be leveraged towards real production situations. :) Not that you implied such a thing; it's merely a disclaimer because of the simplified examples I produce. :)

Otterman,

You have to be a member at SpinQuad to see the thread. It is located over here:
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25031

Most of his tutorials are without sound, but the later ones he managed to get the mic working. He is currently working on an amazing Tornado-rig that is kind of blowing my mind right now! I'm SO eager to see the next vid in that series...

As I said... there are alot of positivity going on right now, make sure to inhale it before it ends. ;)

Fadlabi
05-19-2009, 08:06 AM
[QUOTE=RebelHill;884639]it covers EVERYTHING, and teaches you HOW to rig, as oppsed to jsut walking you through a single characters rig... lots on theory, lots on the under the hood stuff...QUOTE]

That's very cool, i am waiting for these tutorials.:thumbsup:

RebelHill
05-19-2009, 12:04 PM
I throw these techniques at real production situations and they hold up very well. I wouldn't want to show off techniques that can't be leveraged towards real production situations.

Totally!! Same with my character rigging, so many times Ive taken on animation gigs and the rigs supplied have ranged from basic, limiting what could be animated, to totally substandard... which aint much cop for production... hence why my character rigging has been so deeply refined over the years... nothing breaks, no unexpected flips, or bad deforms... fixes prebuilt in for things that could go wrong... Most all the jobs I work on there aint even a minute of free time to sort out problems if the rig aint working right, and the character work aint exactly something u can gloss over, the way u can just blur a background to hide a flickery texture, or whatever.

As for the positivity flying round with things in LW atm, I get that too... for me its been the culmination of a few things... the encouragement of y'all round here and other parts... fellas ive known whove asked me for a few years to lay out my rigging wnow-how on video, one co-worker whos been particularly badgering (pete, u know who you are buddy)... But also recently something to do with core, naemly the announcement/reveal.

Botched and amateurish though it may have seemed in ways, there was something about..

"had enough of the same ol' same ol'?"

That rang out like a call to arms for me.... cos the answer is "yes, yes I have!"

Ive had enough of seeing the same old tired rigging techniques trotted out for LW and peddled about as if thats all it could do... Ive had enough of folks being under the illusion that LWs not up to scratch for CA work... Would I want to do huge crowds with it... no.... would I want to try transformers with it.... no... but seriously, how often do you need to do that... for 90% (maybe more) of character animation work its just as capable as Maya, et al, and its fast, and its easy to work with...

And possibly most of all, Im sick and tired of going round the forums, seeing folks with rigging questions, or probs that are often quick 5 min fixes if you know what you're doing, but to explain HOW and WHY to do the fix a certain way is gonna require a 5000 word essay, and being invariably reduced to trying to give a couple quick pointers whilst effectively just leaving folks in the dark for the most part.

So the best I can do is to try and show something new... try and do something new.

The Dommo
05-19-2009, 12:11 PM
rebelhill, sounds awesome. It's nice to know that LW can actually do decentness for CA and rigging etc. Just wish I knew how lol

realgray
05-19-2009, 03:30 PM
Bring on the Rigging Tuts :thumbsup:

Carm3D
05-19-2009, 04:18 PM
You might reap benefit from some of my tutorial videos here (http://www.vfxcast.com/profile_media/Carm3D/).

MAUROCOR
05-20-2009, 09:06 AM
You might reap benefit from some of my tutorial videos here (http://www.vfxcast.com/profile_media/Carm3D/).


Thanks, Carm! I really appreciated!:thumbsup:

erikals
05-20-2009, 11:54 AM
Would I want to do huge crowds with it... no.... would I want to try transformers with it.... no... but seriously, how often do you need to do that... for 90% (maybe more) of character animation work its just as capable as Maya, et al, and its fast, and its easy to work with...

just want to add two notes,

at school, people testing Massive for crowds, and it is not all that user friendly... put short, they just ran into a lot of problems when it came down to shaders, having to write .rib files manually for renderman. as far as i can see, crowds seems to be tricky in any package. this LW thread (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86338&page=2) had some interesting clues on how on could do it in LW, unfortunately LW projects are never of a big dimension, so no one has the time to test the techniques properly. surely was an interesting read though.

i always wondered what techniques in transformers that could not be done in LW, i found combining these techniques could automate quite a lot (everything?) that was done in transformers. robotic movements thread (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97659)

the biggest obstacle i have seen in LW has been realistic muscle simulation, Dpont's Boolean Muscle test (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84387&page=9) was interesting though. combined with muscle sliding (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=800997#post800997) using nodes.

...so, LW might very well be capable of doing complex stuff, the problem is, nobody has the time to test these techniques properly. (+the current lack of good dynamics and fluids)

RebelHill
05-20-2009, 02:29 PM
i always wondered what techniques in transformers that could not be done in LW

It really the amount of stuff going on in the rigs... al those moving, interconnecting parts, etc... different variations that would be needed for different shots... Im sure LW could do it... im sure you could rig it all up in there...

But without some kind of scene/rig referencing system to help pull it all together I think the management/organisational issues of doing that kinda thing in LW would really drag u down time wise, and probs make u want to kill yourself.

erikals
05-20-2009, 04:02 PM
yep, surely could be better,
a lot of the transformations will take place...

another tricky part would be the... um... parts...
about 12.000 individual parts on each robot.
i guess it must have taken more than a weekend...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6-MSZ_4iyw

never the less,... impossible? nope.
time consuming? yes.

Cageman
05-21-2009, 02:44 AM
One HUGE benefit with Maya in such cases as Transformers rigs is that pretty much everything can be scripted and automated.

RebelHill
05-21-2009, 04:40 AM
One HUGE benefit with Maya in such cases as Transformers rigs is that pretty much everything can be scripted and automated.

Also very true...

But again, I reckon for sure 90%... possibly even more, of CA work thats done out there in the world, from commercials to cartoons... even up to full features that star "regular" characters, is free of all the complexities that arise in a production like transformers, et al... and for such projects, characters, rigs, and animation... LW is just as capable as maya and the others, but way more accessible and easy to get into Id wager.

probiner
05-21-2009, 07:29 AM
lots of very deep, thorogh, etc tuts on their way soon for 9.6

many, many hours.

Tic Tac Tic Tac :thumbsup:

Cageman
05-21-2009, 01:49 PM
Also very true...

But again, I reckon for sure 90%... possibly even more, of CA work thats done out there in the world, from commercials to cartoons... even up to full features that star "regular" characters, is free of all the complexities that arise in a production like transformers, et al... and for such projects, characters, rigs, and animation... LW is just as capable as maya and the others, but way more accessible and easy to get into Id wager.

Absolutely! I would also argue that there is a time-threshold within production that LW is very capable to stay within and still output very good stuff. It is, of course up to the artist to know the tools, but I have seen that LW vs Maya in capable hands, gives LW the advantage in timeconstrained situations. This boils down to two things:

1. Integrated renderer in LW that can render mblur/dof in camera very fast
2. "Fire and forget" mentality in LWs architecture.

Let me explain what I mean with "Fire and forget" mentality.

If you ever have been using Maya, you would have noticed that once you get into the rendering phase, things starts to crap out or simply not work. You start to backtrack your assets and notice that things like history, shaders on faces and many other things are making it hard for Mental ray to actually work in an efficient way. You would also notice that if you have not UV-mapped every object in the scene (despite the fact that only few of them actually uses textures), the renderlogs are going crazy because before Mental ray can start render, it will report all those objects that doesn't have a UV-map. Depending on the scenesize, this can be a process that takes several minutes / frame. If you are on a tight schedule, you simply don't have time for things like this.

RebelHill
05-21-2009, 02:02 PM
...once you get into the rendering phase, things starts to crap out or simply not work. You start to backtrack your assets and notice that things like history, shaders on faces and many other things are making it hard for Mental ray to actually work in an efficient way. You would also notice that if you have not UV-mapped every object in the scene (despite the fact that only few of them actually uses textures), the renderlogs are going crazy because before Mental ray can start render, it will report all those objects that doesn't have a UV-map. Depending on the scenesize, this can be a process that takes several minutes / frame. If you are on a tight schedule, you simply don't have time for things like this.

Didnt know about any of that. Ive used maya on gigs before, but purely for animation work... create key, virtual slider, and tweak graph, thats all I know about the using the program (and if im honest all i really wanna know).

Cageman
05-21-2009, 02:10 PM
Didnt know about any of that. Ive used maya on gigs before, but purely for animation work... create key, virtual slider, and tweak graph, thats all I know about the using the program (and if im honest all i really wanna know).

Hehe... PointOven is a friend of mine.. :)

Anyhow... to get back on track with this thread, since I actually went OT here, when do you believe your videotutorials will be avaliable? I'm so eager to get them! :)

RebelHill
05-21-2009, 02:16 PM
Well.... should be completed making them in the next week or 2, as for availability... unknown as Im currently looking at my options for distibution, and seeing where that leads me. Hopefully, it wont take too long to bring them out proper.

geothefaust
05-21-2009, 02:29 PM
Well.... should be completed making them in the next week or 2, as for availability... unknown as Im currently looking at my options for distibution, and seeing where that leads me. Hopefully, it wont take too long to bring them out proper.

Hey glad to see you're so close to distribution. Check your email soon. I have some info for you. :)

Larry_g1s
05-21-2009, 04:40 PM
Well.... should be completed making them in the next week or 2, as for availability... unknown as Im currently looking at my options for distibution, and seeing where that leads me. Hopefully, it wont take too long to bring them out proper.Very cool RebelHill.

CGI Addict
05-21-2009, 04:47 PM
That's worth the wait RebelHill.

Larry_g1s
05-21-2009, 04:53 PM
What I'm loving about LW lately is in spite of CORE coming out later this year (of which I'm apart of HC and looking forward to CORE), there is still soooo much goodness in the present version of LW...great app. & community.

RebelHill
05-22-2009, 05:41 AM
there is still soooo much goodness in the present version of LW

Absolutely... 9.6 really is a breakthrough version in so many ways, especially (from my end) for rigging. So much has been solved, though I suspect that its probs because theres a lot of code thats been designed for Core that they've been able to bolt in to what we already had... though I also imagine that there must have been some serious limitation to how far they could go with that, which should mean that Core has the potential to be utterly blinding.

Larry_g1s
05-22-2009, 09:36 AM
Absolutely... 9.6 really is a breakthrough version in so many ways, especially (from my end) for rigging. So much has been solved, though I suspect that its probs because there's a lot of code thats been designed for Core that they've been able to bolt in to what we already had... though I also imagine that there must have been some serious limitation to how far they could go with that, which should mean that Core has the potential to be utterly blinding.Interesting observation RH. One that I think is not only very plausible, but one I hope is correct too.

erikals
05-23-2009, 05:46 PM
hm, this WeightPaintTool looks like a small revolution...
http://www.3dcel.jp/

geothefaust
05-23-2009, 06:36 PM
Yeah it sure is. I've only had a little bit of time to mess with it right now. I'm very busy creating some tutorials myself as well. :D

steamthunk
05-27-2009, 10:24 AM
Oh man. I was just getting totally bummed by my crappy rigging. So much so I finally caved in and bought the famous Jonny Gordon books on CA in LW even though I'm not into CA. Please let us know when tutorials are ready!