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IMI
05-14-2009, 02:02 PM
I just saw a commercial on TV where a user was forced to select from various PC's, such as PCs with small monitors and so on, leading up to the punchline where the PC guy had to bow out because the user wanted a system with no viruses.

OK. Fine. All well and good.
But, if Mac-Guy wants to be realistic about it, why not mention that, for one, anyone can build his own PC with a selection of thousands of parts from thousands of manufacturers?
See, I thought the Mac angle was *originality*... which it seems they seem to be at a deficit with but... whatever. Seems the truth is you get what they offer and that's all she wrote.
And also why not mention we PC people have had 64 bit for years while...well....
And of course, not only are viruses far from built-in, but are easily avoided, if one knows what one is doing.

Finally, it seems Mac is trying to say over all these years, over all these ads, people who use PCs are somehow at a loss...

Well, I don't know: We have far more software available, definitely far more hardware available, and 64 bit.

Not trying to create a mac vs PC war, but...what's their point? Who are they trying to sell it to? Us? Surely not, as even Mac fans could agree much of their argument is moot and easily beaten.

So I am left to conclude Mac desires not to deliver a better system, but to attain the ranks of ownership PC has. In other words, they desire the market share, and will lie through their teeth if necessary, in order to get it.
We scoff at predatory sales tactics in all other areas, but Mac is free to spew forth their..... well, never mind.

I could make a video showing me replacing a Gigabyte board with an Asus board I had delivered from Newegg in less that 12 hours and getting the customer up and running again in only a couple of hours, and with a board with possibly more options. Can a Mac guy show that?
And for faaarrrr less money than replacing a Mac board. ;)

And really, if your main line of reasoning for Mac over PC is the virus thing, I'd ask, would you also advocate tying yourself to a tree to avoid being run over by a car? It's not much different. Viruses (like accidents) are often attracted to stupid people, not operating systems. Windows people can avoid viruses by simply not being reckless.

Hello, I'm a PC, and I've never had a virus. I also run several 64 bit programs. :)

Matt
05-14-2009, 02:04 PM
Trying to sell to people who don't know the difference, or aren't technically savvy perhaps?

Andyjaggy
05-14-2009, 02:04 PM
These ads got old a very long time ago. I wonder if Apple will still be running them in 5 years, they do seem to be about 5 years behind on the 64 bit thing.

AdamAvenali
05-14-2009, 02:10 PM
what really made me anti-mac was a professor in college. i would bring in my laptop and do my work and mind my own business. she made it a point to tell me i would be a better graphic designer if i used a mac, and that was it. on that day i pledged to never own a mac.

i'm sure they are great machines and they are definitely very streamline and attractive, but until i run into a problem with a pc that pushes me over the edge of insanity i have no reason to switch.

and as far as viruses are concerned, my most recent machine was built over 6 months ago with Vista Home and i have had zero viruses. just stay away from the porn and pirate sites (and the pirate porn sites).

IMI
05-14-2009, 02:18 PM
and as far as viruses are concerned, my most recent machine was built over 6 months ago with Vista Home and i have had zero viruses. just stay away from the porn and pirate sites (and the pirate porn sites).

Pirate porn - LOL!

Not to mention, games.... kind of a big thing these days, really. Hmmm.... I'm not seeing that Mac version of 3dsmax or DirectX10 anywhere. ;)

AdamAvenali
05-14-2009, 02:25 PM
i think what i dislike the most about the pc vs. mac thing is that it is pushing operating systems to be as "easy and safe" to use as possible. so, now i am left with a version of windows that i basically have to hack to do anything (i'm looking at you UAC! haha).

adamredwoods
05-14-2009, 02:28 PM
what really made me anti-mac was a professor in college. i would bring in my laptop and do my work and mind my own business. she made it a point to tell me i would be a better graphic designer if i used a mac, and that was it. on that day i pledged to never own a mac.


thats a bad professor.

hehe, that means if you had TWO macs, you'd be TWICE as good a designer!

jasonwestmas
05-14-2009, 02:30 PM
There still isn't a 64-bit version of Lightwave for OSX.

AdamAvenali
05-14-2009, 02:32 PM
thats a bad professor.

hehe, that means if you had TWO macs, you'd be TWICE as good a designer!

i agree. i mean it just left me with a bad taste and stereotype towards mac owners (please dont flame me, i realize that not every mac owner is this way haha).

IMI
05-14-2009, 02:45 PM
i think what i dislike the most about the pc vs. mac thing is that it is pushing operating systems to be as "easy and safe" to use as possible. so, now i am left with a version of windows that i basically have to hack to do anything (i'm looking at you UAC! haha).

Well, kinda, yeah.
But even moreso, it's advocating even more the idea of "let us do the thinking for you", which is part of the problem Mac-Boy is trying to argue against.
In other words, it's bad to be a slave to PC, but acceptable to be a slave to Mac. ;)

lwanmtr
05-14-2009, 02:48 PM
Well, I prefer Mac, but from a stability standpoint...I have built my own pc's many times and i still even use pc on occasion..

Yes, pc has more software available and more hardware options...but thats not always a good thing....pc's often suffer from conflicts because a driver wasnt written to play well with others and so on...

Software..yeah, there is a ton of software for it...big woop..all I care about is if the software I use will work...and there are only a few apps that I use that arent mac (yet)..

My only real complaint is that LW isnt 64bit on mac

If you wanna start talking about the stoopidity of 'puter commercials, hp runs a similar ad where people are forced to find a laptop for under a certain amount of money...the ad says nothing about the fact that the laptop they choose is only good for web browsing...

Remember, Mac, HP, Dell, M$ and all those other ads arent targeting you or i..they are targeting the masses, which means they dumb it down to the lowest common denominator...mac will focus on stability and iLife...while pc's will focus on price and colorful cases.

Lets hope another platform emerges so we can start another round of debates...lol

RebelHill
05-14-2009, 02:49 PM
oh god, who cares...

point is ur right, its the non tech savvy consumer whos gonna go for this kinda advertising... and its exactly those type of people who, when they ask MY advice on getting a new comp, despite my being a hardcore pc/win user, I always tell... "get a mac".

lwanmtr
05-14-2009, 02:52 PM
When someone asks for advice, I usually say MacPro cause you can run winblows on it as well...but if they need pc hardware advice, I can also point them away from bad choices..

ATI vs NVidia for instance....I love my FireGL..it's a fast board..but Ati's Catalyst causes problems, particularly with LW..so I usually say NVidia

Andyjaggy
05-14-2009, 03:02 PM
Just use what fulfills your needs. I need 64 bit software and lots of memory, so I use a PC. Plus it has the added benefit of being cheaper.

It's all the same hardware these days, and frankly I could care less about the operating system, as long as I can run my programs, that's all I care about.

IMI
05-14-2009, 03:12 PM
oh god, who cares...

point is ur right, its the non tech savvy consumer whos gonna go for this kinda advertising... and its exactly those type of people who, when they ask MY advice on getting a new comp, despite my being a hardcore pc/win user, I always tell... "get a mac".

That's all well and good if you have a reason. As I said, this is a complaint about the advertising technique, not the product.
But, they're lying to people. Trying to push Mac as somehow inherently superior, which it is not.
Truth is, from what I've seen, Mac is not for your basic everyday computer buyer who just wants to email, watch You Tube crap, and download pr0n.
Yet, they seem to be trying to market it as if it were not only inherently superior, but safer for the inherent moron. They'd be better off sticking to trying to market to professionals, because the general moron public knows it can get the same crap for far less from Dell or someone.

In other words it's just starting to look *desperate* or something, them clamoring for the PC market, kinda sad, especially when they resort to lies to do it.
The average computer buyer might trust them but never realize that along with that "security" they're getting, is an extremely limited platform.

RebelHill
05-14-2009, 03:18 PM
this is a complaint about the advertising technique, not the product.... they're lying to people.

and this is news about advertising because...???

PixelDust
05-14-2009, 03:19 PM
Well, at least Microsoft has some good ads now to counter the Apple ads, like the "I'm a PC" ads with the kids, and the ones where people go shopping for laptops and end up choosing a PC laptop over a Mac.

IMI
05-14-2009, 03:23 PM
and this is news about advertising because...???

It's far from news, but I felt like mentioning it. Is that OK? :)

Wickster
05-14-2009, 03:54 PM
So if say a person uses both a MAC and a PC, does that mean that person is considered a bi-technical. Or does the rule "if you use a MAC and a PC you're still a MAC" apply?

I'm just asking...for a friend...right...a friend of mine. :D

RebelHill
05-14-2009, 03:58 PM
I felt like mentioning it. Is that OK? :)

sure, lol... always room for a moan.

aidenvfx
05-14-2009, 07:09 PM
Pirate porn - LOL!

Not to mention, games.... kind of a big thing these days, really. Hmmm.... I'm not seeing that Mac version of 3dsmax or DirectX10 anywhere. ;)

But you don't see FCP or SHAKE for Windows either.

I like the ads for what they are and for how mad they make the MS CEO but I lost my fanboy hat a long time ago. I say use what gets the job done. I made the decision to go MAC a number of years ago. At the end of the day use what gets the job done that's all that matters

BigHache
05-14-2009, 07:14 PM
So if say a person uses both a MAC and a PC, does that mean that person is considered a bi-technical. Or does the rule "if you use a MAC and a PC you're still a MAC" apply?

It means you haven't catered to marketing crap. :)

Hopper
05-14-2009, 07:42 PM
what really made me anti-mac was a professor in college. i would bring in my laptop and do my work and mind my own business. she made it a point to tell me i would be a better graphic designer if i used a mac, and that was it. on that day i pledged to never own a mac.
While in college a friend of mine had a girlfriend that sideswiped her brand new $65 BMW into a concrete divider while attempting to apply her makeup. I asked her how she was going to explain that one to the insurance company. She replied "Insurance? Oh I don't know about those things. My dad will take care of it for me. I think I'll get a blue one next time."

... I will never own a BMW.

ted
05-14-2009, 07:53 PM
Finally, it seems Mac is trying to say over all these years, over all these ads, people who use PCs are somehow at a loss...

I gotta admit, like them or not, these ads work on people.
I agree with what you say, lack of flexibility, lack of hardware & software options, and such a small part of the market makes them a poor option for most of us.

But like everything else, if you say it often enough, long enough and with enough passion, people think they are the idiots for not following along.
I can think of even a better example to show how it works, but it would take this off topic and start a war! :D

I'm a PC and so is most of the world. :thumbsup:

jasonwestmas
05-14-2009, 08:02 PM
I gotta admit, like them or not, these ads work on people.
I agree with what you say, lack of flexibility, lack of hardware & software options, and such a small part of the market makes them a poor option for most of us.

But like everything else, if you say it often enough, long enough and with enough passion, people think they are the idiots for not following along.
I can think of even a better example to show how it works, but it would take this off topic and start a war! :D

I'm a PC and so is most of the world. :thumbsup:

It's all just a matter of taste and time willing.

AdamAvenali
05-14-2009, 08:05 PM
While in college a friend of mine had a girlfriend that sideswiped her brand new $65 BMW into a concrete divider while attempting to apply her makeup. I asked her how she was going to explain that one to the insurance company. She replied "Insurance? Oh I don't know about those things. My dad will take care of it for me. I think I'll get a blue one next time."

... I will never own a BMW.

i would own a BMW if it was $65 :D

cholo
05-14-2009, 08:29 PM
I still remember when this debate used to be about two different hardware platforms. FWIW, Macs, particularly the high end ones, are excellent windows PC's. :)

cresshead
05-14-2009, 09:04 PM
i buy/use computers for the software applications not the operating system...i couldn't care less about the o/s as it should really only enable you to use your apps and hardware connected to it and be able to store the files to make with the apps.

i have windows and osx both 'work' and both are annoying on occasion.

wfstecko
05-14-2009, 09:09 PM
FWIW, Macs, particularly the high end ones, are excellent windows PC's.

I have to admit, my new Mac Pro runs Windows better than any of my PCs ever did.

I switched to the Mac 5 months ago. After 15 years as a network admin in primarily Windows environments, I needed a change. I was sick of blue screens, software and driver conflicts, viruses, and overall instability. A few others in my IT department feel the same way, and we're seriously considering having a party one weekend, complete with BBQ, beer, old computers, and sledgehammers.

After 5 months with the Mac, I'm actually enjoying using a computer again. It's been a long time.

Walter

Scazzino
05-14-2009, 10:44 PM
After 5 months with the Mac, I'm actually enjoying using a computer again. It's been a long time.

That's what it's all about! :thumbsup:
Welcome aboard! :beerchug:

accom
05-15-2009, 12:24 AM
Every time I stumble upon discussions like this, I wonder, how many of mac-disliking-people have actually worked on a mac for at least one or two serious projects. I have worked on windows 3.11, 95, 98, NT, 2000, SGI's with some IRIX, Mac OS's from 7.x to 10.5. Besides MacOS's I have felt really comfortable with Win95 and 2000. IRIX was too technical for me... So I guess that Mac OS's are for dumb people. Call me dumb. ;)

JonW
05-15-2009, 12:52 AM
I started with a Mac 7300 272 mb ram, it was a great computer.

I have 2 Macs & 4 PCs & each do their own jobs, they network really well together. The Macs are great, but..... I can also put together some really cheap & nasty no frills PCs in a cheap box just for number crunching & who cares what box it is in.

Each have their task, & its easier ti have both.

lwanmtr
05-15-2009, 12:53 AM
Alot of people in the biz can claim that they've used both (no matter their preference)..often times, though they dont use it long enough to get used to the way the OS works, so they will stick with what they know.

I have a friend who refused to move to even OSX, cause he likes OS9 (dunno why)..

I've heard many folks say that their MacPro is running windows better than any pc..prolly because of that 'lack of hardware options' thing...Apple supplies the proper drivers for all the hardware on the machine..there is no guesswork about drivers..You can also download the windows drivers for the video card (for instance) from the mfg's site and use it on windows for a little better performance.

Custom building pc's can be pricey too, specially if you go for quality parts..I've never built one for less than $1500, not to mention all the install passes to install drivers for mb, cards and whatnot..and then hope that there wasnt something miswritten into the registry (the worst thing M$ did)...I was never displeased with any pc i built, but the built in power of the mac hardware is alot better, imo.

Advertising aside, no one can deny that Windows is far more susceptible to virus' than MacOS..

lwanmtr
05-15-2009, 12:55 AM
I started with a Mac 7300 272 mb ram, it was a great computer.

I have 2 Macs & 4 PCs & each do their own jobs, they network really well together. The Macs are great, but..... I can also put together some really cheap & nasty no frills PCs in a cheap box just for number crunching & who cares what box it is in.

Each have their task, & its easier ti have both.

I think alotta gfx pros do have both platforms..just makes sense.

Stunt Pixels
05-15-2009, 12:56 AM
I have a friend who refused to move to even OSX, cause he likes OS9 (dunno why)..
My best mate, and business partner, user OS9 and Illustrator 8.... He has his reasons. He's got a box with the latest OSX and Illustrator for when he needs to work with files from other people, but his preferred workstation is really old school...

brian.coates
05-15-2009, 01:20 AM
One simple rule: use what works for you.

(BTW, OSX will be completely 64-bit by the end of the year. As will LW for OSX).

lwanmtr
05-15-2009, 01:47 AM
Yes, OSX is completely 64bit already.

I think Quicktime is still 32bit because it's actually developed by a different team

Too late? I dont think so...later than it should be perhaps...

Again, it's perspective...I find osx to be a much better choice for graphics...I have had so much problems getting good video through windows..AVI sucks and WMV is finicky about settings.

But, eh...you use whatever works for ya

cresshead
05-15-2009, 06:56 AM
if your working for print then osx having o/s wide colorsync is the best option compared to windows, also for music osx is almost a no brainer compared to windows...everything else a pc is just as good at, though apple do make some nice software too...that's why i have a mac and a pc at hand.

apple's hardware has gone up and is currently stopping me upgrading from my g4 mac mini, once they offer something i consider 'worth it' i'll of course have a mac and pc in 1 box as intel mac's can run both.

jasonwestmas
05-15-2009, 07:52 AM
Every time I stumble upon discussions like this, I wonder, how many of mac-disliking-people have actually worked on a mac for at least one or two serious projects. I have worked on windows 3.11, 95, 98, NT, 2000, SGI's with some IRIX, Mac OS's from 7.x to 10.5. Besides MacOS's I have felt really comfortable with Win95 and 2000. IRIX was too technical for me... So I guess that Mac OS's are for dumb people. Call me dumb. ;)

I think you will find that many here started with osx only to be disappointed with the lack of support from apple for 3D apps and other reasons. Others are forced to use OSX at work. I for one just didn't have the patience anymore to work without windows. It was a cheaper option too but that's another story.

cresshead
05-15-2009, 08:38 AM
No it's not. Colour management is just as easy under Windows.

link to a page on that subject?

just been googling>>


Operating system level

Beginning with Windows Vista, color management in Windows is handled at the OS level through an ICC V4-compatible color management standard and API known as Windows Color System.[4] WCS supplements the Image Color Management (ICM) system in Windows 2000 and Windows XP, originally written by Heidelberg.[5][6]

Apple's Mac OS X and the classic Mac OS have long had a color management module, ColorSync.

Operating systems which use the X Window System for graphics use ICC profiles, but support for color management on Linux is still quite nascent, with only a handful of applications supporting, some through LittleCMS.

so another TICK for VISTA then!:D:thumbsup:

Andyjaggy
05-15-2009, 09:01 AM
Every time I stumble upon discussions like this, I wonder, how many of mac-disliking-people have actually worked on a mac for at least one or two serious projects. I have worked on windows 3.11, 95, 98, NT, 2000, SGI's with some IRIX, Mac OS's from 7.x to 10.5. Besides MacOS's I have felt really comfortable with Win95 and 2000. IRIX was too technical for me... So I guess that Mac OS's are for dumb people. Call me dumb. ;)

Oh and that's another thing that drives me nuts. Anytime someone says they don't like a mac the mac fanboys automatically assume that you just haven't used one seriously.

I actually liked macs UNTIL I started using them seriously. Then suddenly I realized, oh wait, these suck just as much as PC's, what was I thinking.

Andyjaggy
05-15-2009, 09:04 AM
I have to admit, my new Mac Pro runs Windows better than any of my PCs ever did.

I switched to the Mac 5 months ago. After 15 years as a network admin in primarily Windows environments, I needed a change. I was sick of blue screens, software and driver conflicts, viruses, and overall instability. A few others in my IT department feel the same way, and we're seriously considering having a party one weekend, complete with BBQ, beer, old computers, and sledgehammers.

After 5 months with the Mac, I'm actually enjoying using a computer again. It's been a long time.

Walter

Well what kind of PC's were you networking, my guess is the mac you got is probably light years faster and newer then most of the PC's you were dealindg with everyday, so of coarse you are going to be more happy with it.

I think it has been about 3 years now since I have even seen a blue screen of death. My current PC is more stable then any mac I have ever used, and I was using a top of the line mac pro.

steamthunk
05-15-2009, 09:11 AM
I'm one of those PC artists. It's actually more rebelious that way. :)
I like games. Games appear on Windows first (sometimes by years if they appear on Mac at all). Windows can run any application I'd care to use. Why bother getting a Mac and then installing Windows and suffering maintaining 2 OSes so that I can run some of my stuff on one and other stuff on the other? My life is too short and I don't want to pay the Apple Tax and the Microsoft Tax.

OSX works, but all OSes are application launchers to me. I don't believe any particular OS really is inherently "easier to use". As someone earlier mentioned, it boils down to spending time on an OS. So yeah, I'm picking the launcher that launches the most apps essentially. If that were to become OSX one day - then sure why not.

I will say that the whole Mac fanboy thing is annoying. And I was an Amiga user. I know cults. :) I considered going towards Macs when Amiga died. Then I just got tired of just constantly shouting about how much superior my platform was when really no one cared. What I really needed to do was just admit that it's all pretty much the same by the mid 1990s and that the only real difference was how innately prejudiced I wanted to be towards an OS.

accom
05-15-2009, 09:18 AM
I think you will find that many here started with osx only to be disappointed with the lack of support from apple for 3D apps and other reasons. Others are forced to use OSX at work. I for one just didn't have the patience anymore to work without windows. It was a cheaper option too but that's another story.

Yes, I agree that apple is not the best option for 3D and that overall there are plenty of rock-solid alternatives.

I use it primarly for DTP (Adobe) and some playing arround with LW. Works great for me.

Although - Adobe SW for Mac is not as solid as Win versions (but it is getting better, don't know yet about CS4). Speed is obviously on the win side, not to mention 64 bits...

But what keeps me with Mac is 'the whole package'. No hassle with drivers, much less hassle with updates and overall 'feeling' when using a computer. Yes, getting used to one specific OS (kbd. shortcuts etc.) does represent a 'hendicap' when working with another OS, but anyway. Mac does it for me, while windows doesn't. I do have to use it now and then, but if I can, I prefer to do it on a Mac.

The bottom line is, i guess, pretty much the same as is the debate with applications: it's the artist that matters, not the software. Pretty much everything can be done on any OS, the only question is a personal preference.

'nuff said! :)

adamredwoods
05-15-2009, 11:52 AM
so another TICK for VISTA then!:D:thumbsup:

Hahaha! That icon is BURIED in a hodgepodge mass of icons. Why, oh why can't Microsoft get a descent UI designer that can organize and simplify their interface for them? minus a tick for vista.

Nicolas Jordan
05-15-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm looking forward to Windows 7 myself. :) I have no time or money for a Mac. They are basically a PC running the Mac OS as some have already mentioned.

Andyjaggy
05-15-2009, 01:31 PM
Hahaha! That icon is BURIED in a hodgepodge mass of icons. Why, oh why can't Microsoft get a descent UI designer that can organize and simplify their interface for them? minus a tick for vista.

Oh it's so bad that microsoft gives you all the controls needed to tweak every aspect of your computer in the control panel. minus a tick for apple.

wacom
05-15-2009, 01:49 PM
This whole debate gets more ridiculous every day. The more people do on the web and the more their daily work is as a client the more it's just a moot point.

I know a lot of people that could probably be on some kind of "terminal" laptop and as long as they can surf the web, look at a photo or two, and watch youtube they're good for 99.9% of their computer usage.

Microlimp and Apple, IMHO, already probably have guessed that as long as google and companies like sumo paint keep pushing ahead, their relevance to the masses will eventually diminish if it goes at this rate.

I predict that general OS systems will be just for "pros" and those who aspire to be- kind of like Irix was etc. and the rest will just use some kind of netbook with a large screen, a bit of storage, and mostly web apps...

adamredwoods
05-15-2009, 01:57 PM
Oh it's so bad that microsoft gives you all the controls needed to tweak every aspect of your computer in the control panel. minus a tick for apple.

scattered beneath menus and hard-to-find context menus. minus tick for ms.

seriously, i have just as many gripes about macs:
the windowing system... too many floating windows.

Andyjaggy
05-15-2009, 02:26 PM
But again I just have to say I don't really care about the operating system, as long as I can run my programs. I don't care if there are 50 icons in the control panel, doesn't matter to me. It's not exactly like I spend a lot of time there.

belanagy
05-15-2009, 03:19 PM
i am a pc

adamredwoods
05-15-2009, 03:40 PM
But again I just have to say I don't really care about the operating system, as long as I can run my programs. I don't care if there are 50 icons in the control panel, doesn't matter to me. It's not exactly like I spend a lot of time there.

I normally dont care about the OS, but I use the OS's file system A LOT. I have hundreds if not thousands of files I store and use, and need a way to keep them organized and efficient.

Take finder versus file explorer. MS hasn't updated explorer in years. Vista, from what I could tell, added blinking arrows. Sure, there's other improvements, but usually burried under *yet another button* that i cant find. Is explorer split window yet? That would be awesome.

Then look at finder's column layout, which is a smart way to layout files and folders. It's not the best, could use improvement, but at least they tried to create a better way. And if you don't like it, you can choose to display it the old way. Options are wonderful.

Medi8or
05-15-2009, 04:59 PM
Oh it's so bad that microsoft gives you all the controls needed to tweak every aspect of your computer in the control panel.Now that is a load of solid excretory product evacuated from the bowels of bovine..
I've never had "all controls needed" available in the control panel. Too often you have to edit the registry manually, if you aren't lucky enough to find a third party tool to do it for you. Info in how to edit the registry isn't really available either, since MS obviously don't think people should mess too much with it.. Have to rely on Google and hope someone has had the same problem and posted info in some online forum..

Lightwolf
05-15-2009, 05:08 PM
Take finder versus file explorer. MS hasn't updated explorer in years. Vista, from what I could tell, added blinking arrows. Sure, there's other improvements, but usually burried under *yet another button* that i cant find. Is explorer split window yet? That would be awesome.
Which shows how much of that is subject to your tastes really. I find Finder (no pun intended) to be an abyssmal tool to organize anything, with the exception of the ability to colour stuff, which is neat (on the other hand, the mixed sorting of folders and files in list views drives me nuts). Vista Explorer I actually find to be a neat improvement to XP, especially the arrows with direct access to folders. The adress bar with autocompletion is also a big plus - for me (especially compared to command-shift-g and no autocomplete...).
Another example is Exposť, which is direly needed on OS X (I find the windowing to be a lot "messier") but which I never missed on windows. Having said that, I wouldn't mind a decent unix based shell on windows... on the other hand, the OS X one really isn't well integrated into the GUI.

Heck, I could argue all points with myself :p

*argh* sod it, they all suck. I want by C=64 back!

Cheers,
Mike

Hopper
05-15-2009, 06:11 PM
i would own a BMW if it was $65 :D
mmm yeah .. I just saw that .. Doh! forgot the k.

BeeVee
05-15-2009, 07:00 PM
Heh, I wouldn't really know having used Directory Opus as my file finder since I had a Windows PC as my main machine. How I wish I could have it for the Mac...

B

IMI
05-16-2009, 03:47 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start yet another Mac vs PC war here.
My main point was that I'm getting sick of the commercials. Maybe it's just me, but I see that sort of thing all over the place in TV commercials - outright lies or at least only partial truths. Well, it's a competitive world we live in, but still, that's not good justification for deceptive advertising, IMO.

The reason the Mac guy and PC guy commercials bug me especially though is that for one, I'm very familiar with PCs, but also, they are obviously slanted far towards the Mac side. Well, duh.. I mean, they are Mac commercials after all. ;)
But I mean they're not fair, they're not accurate. Sure, a Mac is an excellent machine, but their implication is it is far far superior in all ways.

And as I already mentioned, who are they targeting? They're targeting the ignorant, the non computer-savvy. They must be, because they're essentially saying Windows is broken and compromised, appealing to the rumors out there that the ignorant spread around - the urban legend Windows sucks, blahblahblah. The fact they use an overweight dorky looking middle aged and decidedly "uncool" guy says alot too, as opposed to the slick, modern, stylish cool young guy on the Mac side.

But as I also mentioned before, they pretty much outright say that if you use Windows, you will get a debilitating virus, you will crash, you will BSOD all day long. None of that is true. Sure, it might be a little bit easier to hose your Windows than your Mac, but not if you know what you're doing.

So again, they're trying to sell to those who don't know what they're doing, people who are computer illiterate. People who use computers professionally already know the differences between Mac and PC, after all, particularly people who use computers professionally for graphics.

I see no mention in there that if you buy a Mac you might as well forget about playing any of the popular computer games on it. well... unless you want to install Windows on it.... I see no mention in there about abysmal driver support for graphics cards. I see no mention that you can't simply buy a new motherboard and slap it in if you have to, but even more importantly, I see no mention that the Mac costs a whole lot more and is not even slightly more useful to your average off-the-shelf computer buyer than a PC is.

It's deceptive advertising. As I already said, it seems kind of desperate, too, that Apple has resorted to lying (or at least exaggerating greatly) to try to sell more of its products to people they know full well won't benefit even slightly from having a Mac. What they will find though is that a whole, whole lot of the cool freeware and inexpensive programs their PC friends are downloading and buying and using is completely unavailable to the Mac user.

Lightwolf
05-16-2009, 04:45 AM
My main point was that I'm getting sick of the commercials. Maybe it's just me, but I see that sort of thing all over the place in TV commercials - outright lies or at least only partial truths. Well, it's a competitive world we live in, but still, that's not good justification for deceptive advertising, IMO.
They're not meant to actually educate you. Look at them as entertainment and you'll end up being a much happier person :D
Maybe bad entertainment... but that's another topic ;)

Cheers,
Mike

lwanmtr
05-16-2009, 05:34 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start yet another Mac vs PC war here.

You should know by now, that any post such as this will always degenerate into a platform debate



I see no mention in there that if you buy a Mac you might as well forget about playing any of the popular computer games on it. well... unless you want to install Windows on it.... I see no mention in there about abysmal driver support for graphics cards. I see no mention that you can't simply buy a new motherboard and slap it in if you have to, but even more importantly, I see no mention that the Mac costs a whole lot more and is not even slightly more useful to your average off-the-shelf computer buyer than a PC is.

LOL..This is funny because if yo buy a Dell, HP, Etc...you can't simply drop in a new motherboard either...and realize that the people they are targeting generally know very little about building their own systems..

The popular games do end up on Mac..care to be specific?

They arent going to say outright that their system costs more in an advertisement.

Really..you are saying that you didnt want to start a platform war, but really look at your own posts, you are in fact deriding the mac platform yourself, rather than sticking to just commenting on the advertisements...

dnch
05-16-2009, 05:42 AM
well.. i am the only one using pc in our studio...
they try to convice me to mac, but i still dont want to..
couple mac pros:
- stability
- design
- hardware compatibility (you can get into troubles building your own pc from various sources or buying non-brand pc)
- ease of use of some applications
- beatifully executed system image / pdf preview.. as its fast and really great to use
cons:
- price
- service price
- keyboard, mouse price (i got mine for pc for 6 dolars each)
- i really hate those no buttons mice


other reason:
- i am very lazy to try to know how to use other OS.. fast.. i am so used to win and win applications it would be loss of lot of hours before i get to this stage on macOS
- i hate the "coolness" of macs

by the way, i use mac cinema displays for my pc.. as i love them:) (but the older ones had better picture quality... so i am little disapointed)

but pcs are not trouble free:
- i build my home machine from various parts, mostly high-end hardware (half year ago that is).. and i had to return my ram memories couple of times before i get ones that worked in 4GB setting
- i still get BSOD (blue screen of death) from time to time

anyway.. i am grown up of convicing someone to buy win or mac.. its everyones choice

SBowie
05-16-2009, 07:29 AM
The fact they use an overweight dorky looking middle aged and decidedly "uncool" guy says alot tooWait - I was fine with the fact that report these ads are one-sided, inaccurate, unfair, etc. .. that's just what about 70% of ads do (you are not young, sexy, or cool unless you use this razor, beer, phone, drug, paper product, ballpoint pen, aftershave, credit card, etc.), no biggie.

Now you're saying they are using my image? I never signed a model release! This means war!!

thomascheng
05-16-2009, 08:14 AM
I worked on a PC as a programmer and built my own computers for many, many years. Not to brag, but I'm a pretty smart guy technically :) Two years ago I took a risk and brought a macbook pro. I hated Tiger and thought that it was inferior to windows. This changed when Leopard came out. Leopard was the better OS over Windows. However, I will never completely leave windows, because of software support issues. Probably why they also get a lot less viruses. Apple knows this and that is why bootcamp was created and this worked for people like me. That enjoys Leopard and common every day task, but when it comes to some production work, needs Windows. I only need it for Fusion, I do everything else on the Mac just fine.

If you are going to complain about the MAC commercial being unfair, it's only fair that you look at the Microsoft/HP/Dell commercials on TV and call that unfair too. I mean that is only fair :)

This is simply marketing. The recent PC commercial does the same exact thing in terms of deception. They compare a PC very low cost laptop to a high end macbook pro and then compare the price. In the last one, they compared a 15" inch macbook pro to a 13" dell, but fail to acknowledge that a 13" macbook can be had for almost the same price at the 13" dell.

When you compare, you have to remember that you are comparing pre built computers by manufacturers. PCs are cheaper simply because you can't built your own macs (except for the hackintosh market), but if you compare it to dell or hp computers. They are very similar in price. Please compare the overall machine, not just the marketing of processor and ram specs, which is just another bad marketing trend.

I hate deceptive marketing for both PC and Mac, but I find MAC commercial more entertaining. Just enjoy it and don't take it personally. Besides Apple is keeping MS on their toes and now we get a nice OS from them call Windows 7. Competition is always good for all of us. PC users should be happy about Apple in this regard.

The Dommo
05-16-2009, 08:47 AM
Shake used to be on Windows actually. Just Apple put a stop to that once they bought it from the original developers.

And of course Apple lie. They've been doing it for years. One famous occasion was when they started advertising on TV their 64-bit Macs, G5's I think. It featured a guy being blown through several walls of his hosue, due to the power of the machine, and landing in his front garden. They claimed they had the world's first 64-bit desktop. It was pulled of air within days as AMD had beaten them to it by a number of years.

To top it off, they've only had a proper 64bit OS since the very latest version. Before that, the only apps which could actually run as a 64bit app were those that didn't require human inpur devices - yes, mouse or keyboard.... - you can't make this stuff up! That's why Windows has had 64bit apps for ages.

I've never really gotten on with MacOS, it really slows me down. I used IRIX for a while and loved that while I could. I'm personally looking forward to Windows 7, 64bit.

Sande
05-16-2009, 10:33 AM
Hi, I'm Sande and I'm alcoho...*cough*...Mac.

I hate all OS's equally - well, except AmigaOS, of course. I still have warm, nostalgic feelings towards my first love... ;)

danielkaiser
05-16-2009, 10:53 AM
Well again, I didn't want to start yet another Mac vs PC war here.
My main point was that I'm getting sick of the commercials. Maybe it's just me, but I see that sort of thing all over the place in TV commercials - outright lies or at least only partial truths.

Are you saying that the Enzite ads aren't true?

Stooch
05-16-2009, 11:08 AM
windows 7. all the way. let the rejects and the retards have fun with their shiny mac os. while the rest of the world continues to enjoy a democratic os. lol the creative, artistic and slow individuals out there can be proud of their computer which takes no originality to build. No intelligence to mantain. a paltry selection of style that charges premium for design over function. break the mold with your mac - which will always look like every other mac users computer. use your super advanced and well designed... pc hardware. enjoy the incompatibility that shields you from viruses and delude yoursef that you are actually cool and somehow more creative than the people who actually get the work done. lol. arguing with a mac user is very often like arguing with a religious nut. you know they have no clue what it is they are talking about... but... they dont. A perfect demographic to take for a ride. so basically, apple is doing exactly what it needs to do to cater to the people they are going for. and as it happens, the beligerence and immaturity of their advertising is something its users identify with anyway, they dont find it offensive because generally it is a reflection of themselves :)

IMI
05-16-2009, 01:28 PM
You should know by now, that any post such as this will always degenerate into a platform debate


Actually, yeah, but it's kind of safe here generally. Lightwavers overall seem calmer and more rational than most internet people. We have to be - we've been trained to be patient and calm while waiting for updates. ;)




LOL..This is funny because if yo buy a Dell, HP, Etc...you can't simply drop in a new motherboard either...and realize that the people they are targeting generally know very little about building their own systems..


It was kind of irrelevant for me to bring that up, thinking about it, because yeah, you're right. Although it's alot easier and quicker to get a Dell mobo replaced. But I was just looking at it from the angle of a system builder, which really has no place in this argument because, as you say, alot of people can't do it themselves. Actually I'm surprised how many people aren't even aware you can buy parts and build your own PC at all. I tell people I build computers and they think it's like rocket surgery or brain science or something. ;)
But I've not yet seen a Mac equivalent of, say newegg, where you can buy a whole lot of your own mac hardware and assemble it into your own Mac.


The popular games do end up on Mac..care to be specific?


Left4dead, STALKER, Half Life, Half Life 2, Call of Duty 5, Fallout 3, FarCry, Oblivion, Morrowind... and a whole lot of others. How do they get around the DirectX thing? Granted I don't go looking for games that will run on Mac, but every time I hear of someone running one of the more popular ones it's with Bootcamp or Windows.



They arent going to say outright that their system costs more in an advertisement.


Of course not. it was sarcasm. ;)



Really..you are saying that you didnt want to start a platform war, but really look at your own posts, you are in fact deriding the mac platform yourself, rather than sticking to just commenting on the advertisements...


I didn't think I was deriding it. You confused my sarcasm with derision. I made a few comments stating that Macs are excellent machines.

AdamAvenali
05-16-2009, 01:32 PM
I tell people I build computers and they think it's like rocket surgery or brain science or something. ;)

i hear that haha

IMI
05-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Let me rephrase this.

The commercials are based entirely around deriding the competition, i.e., Windows/PCs.

Suppose I were an advertiser and you came to me with your product and I based my entire ad pitch around slandering your competition, through gross exaggerations (lies) and generalizations, as opposed to pointing out the strengths of your product? Would you hire me?

Like if I were making an ad for Campbell's Soup... should I talk about how great it is, how good it is for you, or should I make an ad saying all other soups give people diarrhea? ;)

IMI
05-16-2009, 01:44 PM
windows 7. all the way.


Are you saying you're running Windows 7 as your primary OS these days?
If so, how's that working out?

Stooch
05-16-2009, 01:46 PM
Are you saying you're running Windows 7 as your primary OS these days?
If so, how's that working out?

yep. as per my sig. 64bit rc1. I LOVE IT!

there are some minor glitches with IE but overall its rock solid. I can do a fluid sim that uses nearly 100% cpu resources but the os still reacts very snappy and fluidly. no crashes so far. mostly using maya right now though. havent tried LW or modo.

things that i LOVE. the really nice way to organize, pin and have a list of favorites and recently used items. really helps out any time im looking around for a scene file or just managing alot of project files.

sooo solid, slick and nice looking. pretty much every feature i want on a pc out of the box is here and its working nicely. the only things i added to my system so far is windows live mail, maya, python, eclipse IDE with Pydev, digsby, magic iso (even though windows has a built in right click on iso and burn function), vuze and notepad++ and hopefully soon modo401 lol. oh yeah cant forget realflow and select adobe apps.

one more thing that i really like... native .mov playback support... finally!!!

IMI
05-16-2009, 01:56 PM
Thanks for the info. That's good to hear from someone using the more complex apps. I only know a few people using Win 7 and they're just running simpleware and triteware, nothing like Maya.
I'm beginning to wish I had gotten in on the beta while I still had a chance - almost everything I've heard about Win 7 so far has been very positive.
But I guess it will be here soon, if it's going as well for everyone else, maybe by the end of summer.

lwanmtr
05-16-2009, 03:25 PM
My first pc was a custom built P2 240mhz (oooh)....I have always recommend to folks that they build their own because you can then replace any part you need to..plus you have control over what goes into it.

I still have a xp64 system that I use as a render machine too.

I am pretty happy with the mac, although I admit that I would like to have more choices in graphics cards...I'm not sure if it's the same now, but early mac had 2 pins reversed on the pci slots, which is why gfx cards had to be mac specific.

I have almost bought Vista, but now I guess I'll wait for W7..and to see if it will be supported through boot camp.

On the game side of things...there are mac stores online where pretty much any title is available..of course, Gamestop, Walmart, etc.. dont usually carry mac software...but then the only game I really play on the computer is World o' Warcraft..I have a PS3 for games..hehe.

Stooch
05-16-2009, 06:02 PM
Thanks for the info. That's good to hear from someone using the more complex apps. I only know a few people using Win 7 and they're just running simpleware and triteware, nothing like Maya.
I'm beginning to wish I had gotten in on the beta while I still had a chance - almost everything I've heard about Win 7 so far has been very positive.
But I guess it will be here soon, if it's going as well for everyone else, maybe by the end of summer.

you still can! actually this is the best time to do so. take it for a spin while its free (and will be free into 2010)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/dd353205.aspx?ITPID=mscomsl

im using it as my main home install, i also used the beta since it was released! and not a single issue. 1 or 2 little nags but other than that i had my entire suite of tools installed on the beta of w7 and everything worked perfectly. this is a rc1 is its much more refined and all the features that will be shipping are included.

you know its funny. apple couldnt give enough of macos for FREE!

while people have to actually BUY windws. isnt it funny? so macos literally has no monetary value. hahahahaahah. no wonder they are bitter.

ken_g9
05-16-2009, 06:18 PM
@Stooch

Good to know Windows 7 RC 64bit is running good. I'm a bit hesitant on making this my primary OS, but it seems that I won't be running into major problems. What motherboard, specifically what chipset are you using? Can't seem to find drivers for Windows 7 for my Intel P35 chipset. Will a Wacom Intuos 3 work well using Vista drivers? If all goes well, I might just do a triple boot of Vista 64, Ubuntu and Windows 7 64 RC. :)

IMI
05-16-2009, 06:27 PM
you still can! actually this is the best time to do so. take it for a spin while its free (and will be free into 2010)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/dd353205.aspx?ITPID=mscomsl

im using it as my main home install, i also used the beta since it was released! and not a single issue. 1 or 2 little nags but other than that i had my entire suite of tools installed on the beta of w7 and everything worked perfectly. this is a rc1 is its much more refined and all the features that will be shipping are included.


Cool! Thank you! :thumbsup:
I was under the impression that only people who were in the initial beta program could get the RC1. I guess I'll take it for a spin, since now I can.
I would assume there will be a RC 2 and maybe even a RC3.
I wonder if there will be updates like the current Windows Update and service releases that are incremental? Which don't require reinstalling everything, that is.

Stooch
05-16-2009, 06:57 PM
I dont think there will be rc2 or 3.

I use the abit ip35. so far so good.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/477

ken_g9
05-16-2009, 07:01 PM
Cool! I'll give Windows 7 a spin then. Thanks! :thumbsup:

IMI
05-17-2009, 06:52 AM
Ok, so I decided to take the plunge and install Windows 7 Ultimate x64 on my main box. I figured I might as well put it on my best and most up-to-date machine. I have everything all backed up, anyway. Worst that can happen is I lose a few days testing.
But after only a couple hours with it I can see already I don't think it'll be a problem. Everything seems to be going fine so far.
Nice to see "Paint" has been brought into the 21st century. Maybe by Windows 27 it will actually be useful. ;)

I haven't installed any actual programs on it yet, but it certainly seems to be somewhat of an improvement over Vista. It had some initial confusion dealing with two monitors at first but I got that straightened out. It kept telling me the one was #1 and the other was #2, but had the order reversed. Maybe a bug, maybe a conflict between it and the Nvidia Control Panel, but it works fine now.

Hasn't rejected any of my hardware or driver software yet, so that's a plus. I'm also seeing far less disk thrashing than Vista does. Very little drive activity, kinda like my XP machine.

AdamAvenali
05-17-2009, 09:13 AM
Nice to see "Paint" has been brought into the 21st century. Maybe by Windows 27 it will actually be useful. ;)

no! how dare they change paint! i was just getting used to it :thumbsup:

IMI
05-17-2009, 11:31 AM
Will a Wacom Intuos 3 work well using Vista drivers? If all goes well, I might just do a triple boot of Vista 64, Ubuntu and Windows 7 64 RC. :)

Well I'm using my Wacom Intuos 3 on Windows 7 x64 now and it seems to be working fine. I downloaded the very latest driver from Wacom, dated April 4 2009. Or maybe it was April 9. The one at the top of the list on their Intuos 3 driver page.
It's listed as a RC beta driver for Vista, and it covers either 32 bit or 64 bit - one driver for both. As I said, it's working as normal in Windows 7 x64.
One thing though, just like in Vsta Ultimate, it turns on the Tablet PC Input panel, which is always there in your face when using the Wacom. However, unlike in Vista, the thing goes away in Windows 7 when you're not using the tablet.
If you like it you can leave it on. If not, you can go into "Control Panel>Uninstall a program>Turn Windows features on or off", and then scroll down to the Tablet PC Components and uncheck the box. That will prevent the tablet PC Input panel from ever showing up.
Or, you could type "services.msc" (without quotes) in the Run dialog and select the tablet PC from the list of services and change it's action, whether it starts automatically or manually, or not at all.

I'm a little peeved I had to do the folder registry hack to make sure that my folder options are the same for all folders, like I had to do in Vista. That one's just annoying, and I was hoping they'd have fixed it. But deleting the Bags and BagsMRU keys and rebuilding them manually puts an end to that nonsense.
Anyone who doesn't know about that one, just ask and I'll 'splain. Essentially the "Apply to [all] Folders" option got broken with Vista and apparently is still broken and you have to hack the registry to fix it. What happens is Windows just displays random folder views in any folders you change through adding new folders, pasting something in, and so on.

Stooch
05-17-2009, 11:55 AM
It had some initial confusion dealing with two monitors at first but I got that straightened out. It kept telling me the one was #1 and the other was #2, but had the order reversed. Maybe a bug, maybe a conflict between it and the Nvidia Control Panel, but it works fine now.

that is NOT a vista or windows 7 issue. I see the same "issue" at the office on my XP workstations.

The confusion is really on your part because the PRIMARY monitor is determined not by where you plug it in. but WHEN you plug it in. meaning, it doesnt matter if you plug it into the right or left port, the first monitor plugged in, is the monitor that will be considered monitor 1

IMI
05-17-2009, 11:58 AM
that is NOT a vista or windows 7 issue. I see the same "issue" at the office on my XP workstations.

The confusion is really on your part because the PRIMARY monitor is determined not by where you plug it in. but WHEN you plug it in. meaning, it doesnt matter if you plug it into the right or left port, the first monitor plugged in, is the monitor that will be considered monitor 1

Oh yeah?
So that's how that happens, eh? I have to admit I was wondering about that one.
Makes sense though, because I installed it with only one monitor. I used only that one monitor all the way up until after I installed the Nvidia drivers.
Well, I got it where it's working fine anyway. Thanks for the info, I'll definitely remember that one for future use. :)

bazsa73
05-17-2009, 12:44 PM
I'm a little peeved I had to do the folder registry hack to make sure that my folder options are the same for all folders, like I had to do in Vista. That one's just annoying, and I was hoping they'd have fixed it. But deleting the Bags and BagsMRU keys and rebuilding them manually puts an end to that nonsense.
Anyone who doesn't know about that one, just ask and I'll 'splain. Essentially the "Apply to [all] Folders" option got broken with Vista and apparently is still broken and you have to hack the registry to fix it. What happens is Windows just displays random folder views in any folders you change through adding new folders, pasting something in, and so on.

YES! Please do so and explain how to do it, because I'm going crazy of this
annoying feature(bug). Meanwhile I searched the net and find an article which explains how to do it, here:http://www.ghacks.net/2008/10/13/define-default-windows-vista-folder-settings/
What do you think, should I follow this, or you have something to add?
Thanks in advance.

IMI
05-17-2009, 01:12 PM
YES! Please do so and explain how to do it, because I'm going crazy of this
annoying feature(bug). Meanwhile I searched the net and find an article which explains how to do it, here:http://www.ghacks.net/2008/10/13/define-default-windows-vista-folder-settings/
What do you think, should I follow this, or you have something to add?
Thanks in advance.

I'm attaching a text file I made a while back from text on a website. I can't remember what website now, unfortunately. I think it was called Top 10 Vista Annoyances or something like that.
It's different from what you posted - this way seems simpler and most definitely works. Make sure to follow the second step in the lower part of the document to ensure the changes stick permanently.

bazsa73
05-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Thanks very much!

IMI
05-17-2009, 02:04 PM
You are most welcome. :)

That one drove me nuts, especially when I started noticing in some of my folders I had all kinds of crap enabled which I know I hadn't set, like Rating, Tags, Authors, and so on.
So I finally just googled it several months ago and came up with what I posted above. My folders never changed after that unless I told them to. :)

ercaxus
05-17-2009, 10:46 PM
Having said that, I wouldn't mind a decent unix based shell on windows...
Have you tried cygwin?

Lightwolf
05-18-2009, 01:28 AM
Have you tried cygwin?
Oh yeah, years ago. I have to admit I only miss it when I script batch files... and those tend up being for distribution, so it's not really an option.

Cheers,
Mike

ken_g9
05-18-2009, 04:25 AM
IMI - Thanks for the clarification on the Wacom. If I got the time, I'd install Windows 7 as well. :)


Essentially the "Apply to [all] Folders" option got broken with Vista and apparently is still broken and you have to hack the registry to fix it. What happens is Windows just displays random folder views in any folders you change through adding new folders, pasting something in, and so on.

I agree. This annoys the hell out of me with Vista.

IMI
05-18-2009, 05:42 AM
IMI - Thanks for the clarification on the Wacom. If I got the time, I'd install Windows 7 as well. :)




No problem. :)
I spent a good deal of time yesterday using my Intuos 3 (with that beta Vista 32/64 driver) with ZBrush 3.1 and Painter 10 in Win 7 x64. No problems at all, whatsoever, it all ran just as well as it did in Vista Ultimate x64.
I haven't tried LW in Win 7 yet. Not at all looking forward to having to set it all up with new configs, all the plugins, dongle, and all that jazz. I have to psyche myself up for that project. ;)
But I'll surely report any problems I find with LW 9.6 in Windows 7. From what I've read from a few others around here though, LW supposedly does fine in Win 7.

danielkaiser
05-18-2009, 05:02 PM
I'm attaching a text file I made a while back from text on a website. I can't remember what website now, unfortunately. I think it was called Top 10 Vista Annoyances or something like that.
It's different from what you posted - this way seems simpler and most definitely works. Make sure to follow the second step in the lower part of the document to ensure the changes stick permanently.



I agree. This annoys the hell out of me with Vista.

Try this http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/choosetemplate easy to use and works fine.

precedia
05-18-2009, 08:03 PM
The Apple ads are working; Windows/PC people are talking about them.

IMI
05-18-2009, 08:17 PM
The Apple ads are working; Windows/PC people are talking about them.

That doesn't mean anything, people talk about Swine Flu, AIDS and McDonald's, too. :D

precedia
05-18-2009, 08:21 PM
That doesn't mean anything, people talk about Swine Flu, AIDS and McDonald's, too. :D

Wow, the Apple ads are better than I thought! They are causing people to talk about Swine Flu, AIDS, and McDonalds? Impressive marketing Apple has.

AdamAvenali
05-18-2009, 08:35 PM
so i just received my packet in the mail for Full Sail as i am looking to acquire my masters via online through someone (pry them or SCAD), but are they really forcing a mac upon me? i thought the tools didnt matter? i cant tell from the book alone if it is mandatory or not, but i guess i will make a phone call tomorrow. i just spent 2k on a laptop last year haha i'm not ready to do it again.

LW_Will
05-19-2009, 12:29 AM
Buy a PC Laptop, you can run Windows and Linux.

Buy a MacBookPro and you can run OSX. UNIX(BSD), LINUX and Windows.

Which is more economic?

LW Will, and I'm a Mac...

ken_g9
05-19-2009, 08:10 AM
Try this http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/choosetemplate easy to use and works fine.

Worked like a charm! Thanks!! :thumbsup:

Lightwolf
05-19-2009, 08:15 AM
Buy a MacBookPro and you can run OSX. UNIX(BSD), LINUX and Windows.

Which is more economic?
That depends on what you need, doesn't it? I'd rather buy a second box than reboot all the time (and if I don't reboot all the time then I don't need another OS on the machine).

Cheers,
Mike

warmiak
05-19-2009, 08:40 AM
Buy a PC Laptop, you can run Windows and Linux.

Buy a MacBookPro and you can run OSX. UNIX(BSD), LINUX and Windows.

Which is more economic?

LW Will, and I'm a Mac...

Uhhh ... if you want to talk economics Apple and their hardware is not exactly where I would start.

IMI
05-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Try this http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/choosetemplate easy to use and works fine.

Hey that Reset Explorer looks pretty cool - thanks for that!

avkills
05-19-2009, 09:05 AM
I'm not reading that long bs, but Apple had 64bit CPUs in their machines way before Wintel manufacturers did; althought it didn't mean much since the OS hardly supported it.

The bottom line is use what works for you. I have had pretty much zero problems with the 3 MacPros at work; I might have had 1 kernel panic the entire time we have owned them.

As far as video editing goes -- bang for buck Apple + third party products just kill anything on the PC side.

-mark

IMI
05-19-2009, 09:24 AM
I'm not reading that long bs...


What "long bs"? You mean the part about how Apple is trying to sell Macs to basic, ignorant computer buyers?
No I'm not saying Mac users are ignorant, but rather the commercials are aimed at people who don't know the difference, while Mac capitalizes on the myth PCs are somehow compromised and even inherently dangerous.

That is, after all, what "that long bs" was all about...
Maybe Apple has better video editing apps available, and the better graphics programs are definitely available to the Mac OS.

But what good does that do anyone who is new to computers? (Again, the commercials are targeting n00bs.)
And why spend millions of dollars creating ads for years that slander the opposition, while spending very very little time saying exactly WHY people should buy a Mac, and what it's *advantages* are? Why not say, "Hey, if you're into video editing, the Mac OS and hardware excels because of yadayadayada..."

I'm sorry, but the sales pitch is essentially, "Buy a Mac because it's not a PC", which is, IMO, where the real BS is.

warmiak
05-19-2009, 09:46 AM
What "long bs"? Maybe Apple has better video editing apps available, and the better graphics programs are definitely available to the Mac OS.


It used to be that way about 10-15 years ago ...

avkills
05-19-2009, 10:21 AM
It used to be that way about 10-15 years ago ...

No it still is. I would not edit on a PC unless they put a full blown AVID system in front of me. The same level of performance can be had at a fraction of the cost using FCP and AJA products.

-mark

danielkaiser
05-19-2009, 10:22 AM
Buy a PC Laptop, you can run Windows and Linux.

Buy a MacBookPro and you can run OSX. UNIX(BSD), LINUX and Windows.

Which is more economic?

LW Will, and I'm a Mac...

Buy a PC Laptop and you can run Hackintosh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

avkills
05-19-2009, 10:22 AM
99% of the people buying anything are ignorant about what they are buying -- what else is new?

-mark

IMI
05-19-2009, 10:43 AM
99% of the people buying anything are ignorant about what they are buying -- what else is new?

-mark

Well, 99% of the things people discuss have already been discussed, so why bother discussing anything anymore? ;)

Aside from that though, I disagree, for one. Maybe when it comes to technical things, but most people I think pretty much can tell the difference between junk and something useful. Ads should expound upon a product's strengths, not its competition's weaknesses. Would you tell your prospective client you can deliver his commercial or product shot or whatever to him the way he wants it, on time and at at a good price, or would you tell him the reason he needs to choose your services is because all the competition is poo?

A good ad *educates* the consumer to understand why their product is superior, not just slanders the competition with little substance aside from just trying to be funny. Which, BTW, I do think the ads are pretty funny. :D

Stooch
05-19-2009, 10:43 AM
99% of the people buying anything are ignorant about what they are buying -- what else is new?

-mark

100% of internet statistics are bull ****.

sandman300
05-19-2009, 10:48 AM
Every single die hard FCP person that I know (5 to be exact) that has sat down in front of Speed Edit has said that they found Speed edit was faster and easier to use.

Lightwolf
05-19-2009, 03:19 PM
I'm not reading that long bs, but Apple had 64bit CPUs in their machines way before Wintel manufacturers did;
It didn't - AMD was there first... and it took Apple some explanations back then to wiggle out of their claim (positioning the G5 as a "workstation" and not a desktop was one of them).
There's even a few threads here on the subject.

Cheers,
Mike

avkills
05-19-2009, 06:47 PM
It didn't - AMD was there first... and it took Apple some explanations back then to wiggle out of their claim (positioning the G5 as a "workstation" and not a desktop was one of them).
There's even a few threads here on the subject.

Cheers,
Mike

At that time though, only Linux was 64 bit compliant... so does that count as a Wintel?

-mark

avkills
05-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Every single die hard FCP person that I know (5 to be exact) that has sat down in front of Speed Edit has said that they found Speed edit was faster and easier to use.

And what exactly were those people editing? DV25? HD?

The simple fact is that integrating something with professional standards is a hell of a lot easier and cheaper with FCP and Apple Mac Pros.

I'd be very curious if speed edit works with AJA's Xena line of PC cards.

Software is **** if you do not have the i/o standards such as HD-SDI, HDMI or on the Analog side (Component Y-Yr-Yb / XLR Audio) to work with. 4:2:2 sampling or better is pretty much needed as well.

Firewire is cool and all; but it isn't the professional standard when it comes to video interconnects even though AJA interfaces through it.

I've never used SpeedEdit; but I have used a Toaster. I edited on a Media100 system before going to FCP.

-mark

avkills
05-19-2009, 06:53 PM
100% of internet statistics are bull ****.

Yup. That does not change the fact the most people are stupid.

-mark

avkills
05-19-2009, 06:55 PM
Well, 99% of the things people discuss have already been discussed, so why bother discussing anything anymore? ;)

Aside from that though, I disagree, for one. Maybe when it comes to technical things, but most people I think pretty much can tell the difference between junk and something useful. Ads should expound upon a product's strengths, not its competition's weaknesses. Would you tell your prospective client you can deliver his commercial or product shot or whatever to him the way he wants it, on time and at at a good price, or would you tell him the reason he needs to choose your services is because all the competition is poo?

A good ad *educates* the consumer to understand why their product is superior, not just slanders the competition with little substance aside from just trying to be funny. Which, BTW, I do think the ads are pretty funny. :D

Apple pretty much tells it how it is -- maybe not for technical people who know how to manage and admin their systems, but for the average person who does not give a crap about technical computer mumbo-jumbo, they will hose the PC before the Mac.

-mark

IMI
05-19-2009, 07:38 PM
Apple pretty much tells it how it is -- maybe not for technical people who know how to manage and admin their systems, but for the average person who does not give a crap about technical computer mumbo-jumbo, they will hose the PC before the Mac.

-mark

OK, but what is the average non-tech savvy computer user doing?

He's buying some off-the-shelf piece of OEM crap, taking it home, plugging it in and loading up IE, browsing to his MySpace page where he discusses the latest popular You Tube garbage, lies a little, flirts a little, then off to Twitter to post his latest vapid thoughts on nothing, then downloading some movies and mp3 files, maybe blabbing on MSN, sending a few emails, carelessly opening a few attachments, then hitting up his favorite pr0n site.

And along the way, possibly he picks up a virus or ten...
Really, if he hoses his PC, he deserves it. :devil:

So, are you trying to tell me Apple is on a mission to save the digital world from itself? I kind of doubt that.

But, do you really *want* these people becoming Mac users? The only real reason Mac people are safer is because there are far more PCs with Windows in operation. If half or more of the computer using population were using Macs to do all the above, the virus writers would take notice and soon the Mac world would be afflicted with the same troubles.
And your Mac forums would be inundated with all us PC commoners, not wanting to discuss the finer aspects of video editing, but where to find the best anti-virus programs for Mac OS...

You really don't want our people to freely mingle with your people; our world to become a part of your world, do you? ;)

avkills
05-19-2009, 08:04 PM
OK, but what is the average non-tech savvy computer user doing?

He's buying some off-the-shelf piece of OEM crap, taking it home, plugging it in and loading up IE, browsing to his MySpace page where he discusses the latest popular You Tube garbage, lies a little, flirts a little, then off to Twitter to post his latest vapid thoughts on nothing, then downloading some movies and mp3 files, maybe blabbing on MSN, sending a few emails, carelessly opening a few attachments, then hitting up his favorite pr0n site.

And along the way, possibly he picks up a virus or ten...
Really, if he hoses his PC, he deserves it. :devil:

So, are you trying to tell me Apple is on a mission to save the digital world from itself? I kind of doubt that.

But, do you really *want* these people becoming Mac users? The only real reason Mac people are safer is because there are far more PCs with Windows in operation. If half or more of the computer using population were using Macs to do all the above, the virus writers would take notice and soon the Mac world would be afflicted with the same troubles.
And your Mac forums would be inundated with all us PC commoners, not wanting to discuss the finer aspects of video editing, but where to find the best anti-virus programs for Mac OS...

You really don't want our people to freely mingle with your people; our world to become a part of your world, do you? ;)

I could care less. Use whatever makes you happy and works for what you are doing.

And actually I think "virus" writers target Microsoft because they are Microsoft.

I run Windows via VMware on all the Macs at work. We have many many Dell laptops we use on show site for powerpoint computers.

They both have strengths and weaknesses. Whooop dee doo.

Personally I feel the Mac OS and Mac hardware in general is better designed and built even though the core parts are the same; and I will gladly pay the Apple tax for a better overall end user experience.

If I really had my way, Amiga would have stomped em both into the dirt.

-mark

AdamAvenali
05-19-2009, 08:33 PM
i have asked some of my friends as to why they chose the computer that they did (we are talking your general "we advertise to you facbookers and twitterers" type of people [a.k.a. non-techy] haha) and the reasons were actually pretty interesting. aside from the standard "the PC was cheaper" and the "macbook is prettier" it really had nothing to do with the machines themselves. it was more about the persona that each carries. i was surprised when i heard "well, i bought my mac because microsoft is a greedy monopoly" and "i went with the dell because my friends who are mac owners are pompous about it."

it was fun getting an average computer users input as i'm willing to bet everyone here has a totally different set of criteria for choosing a machine.

accom
05-20-2009, 01:36 AM
Funny - this kind of discussions seem like 'diesel vs gasoline' or 'ferrari vs mclaren'... silly, actually.

Stick to what works for you.
Try stepping to the other side now and then, just to check it out.
Try to be objective, 'cause only that way you can really see all the pros and cons.
Never ever let 'the cult' or hate mess with your judgment.

Competition is good. We all benefit from it. If I prefer one of the two, it doesn't make me more or less creative, hip, fancy, nerd or geek... it's my personal preference. Just as I prefer tuna over beef, but noone makes a big fuss about it.

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 01:43 AM
At that time though, only Linux was 64 bit compliant... so does that count as a Wintel?
It wasn't a Wintel from the start, but a lamd (as opposed to a Macibm, Mactel or Winamd). Hm, let's see if we can make up some more categories here ;)
If the complete OS is the 64-bit decisive matter then MS are way ahead of the curve now (and Linux was the first). I'd only consider 10.5 to be the first proper 64-bit OS by Apple.

If it's the CPU then it was AMD. *shrugs*

Cheers,
Mike

avkills
05-20-2009, 03:04 AM
It wasn't a Wintel from the start, but a lamd (as opposed to a Macibm, Mactel or Winamd). Hm, let's see if we can make up some more categories here ;)
If the complete OS is the 64-bit decisive matter then MS are way ahead of the curve now (and Linux was the first). I'd only consider 10.5 to be the first proper 64-bit OS by Apple.

If it's the CPU then it was AMD. *shrugs*

Cheers,
Mike

Fair enough; but SGI and Sun beat them both to 64bit. :D Remember Lightwave 5 for Solaris? I think it was 5. Heh heh.

I will be very interested to see if Windows 7 lives up to the hype. Vista was just a hog, although it runs ok via VMware on a MacPro if you give it 4GB of RAM.

-mark

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 03:08 AM
Fair enough; but SGI and Sun beat them both to 64bit. :D Remember Lightwave 5 for Solaris? I think it was 5. Heh heh.

I've even seen 64-bit Modeler in Win NT running on an Itanium at a Siggraph ;)


I will be very interested to see if Windows 7 lives up to the hype. Vista was just a hog, although it runs ok via VMware on a MacPro if you give it 4GB of RAM.
Vista is perfectly fine. It doesn't have any more quirks than the 10.5.7 that runs on the same desk right next to it... and it is an improvement to the XP64 that runs on the other side of the 10.5.7 here ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 03:49 AM
...since modo and LightWave render 10% faster under Vista than under OSX on the same hardware.
C4D (well, Cinebench) seems to show the same behaviour. I wonder if any of these use the intel compiler for OSX or stick to vanilla gcc...

Cheers,
Mike

IMI
05-20-2009, 03:58 AM
And actually I think "virus" writers target Microsoft because they are Microsoft.


I hope you don't really believe that. That's like saying the "Craig's List Killer" did it as revenge against Craig's List. Virus writers are out to get society in general, not specifically targeting MS.




Personally I feel the Mac OS and Mac hardware in general is better designed and built even though the core parts are the same; and I will gladly pay the Apple tax for a better overall end user experience.



Well, that's good. As you say, whatever works for you.
Personally I feel that a huge part of that "overall end user experience" is my ability to have complete control over my computers. Up to and not limited to the possibility of waking up one day and saying to myself, you know, I really think I should have gotten that Gigabyte board instead. And then I order it and have installed it by the end of next day.

But that's just me. As has already been discussed, such extreme modifications aren't possible for most PC users anyway, at least not on their own without sending it somewhere or ordering special OEM parts from the manufacturer.

IMI
05-20-2009, 04:02 AM
Ditto. I'm writing this from my MacPro at work under OSX 10.5.7. It does what I generally need it to do. But once I need to leverage all the power in the workstation I boot it up in Vista x64 since modo and LightWave render 10% faster under Vista than under OSX on the same hardware.

Vista bashing shows only ignorance.

Of course you know, the last thing I'd do is bash Vista. :)

I know you don't have the time for this, so you'll just have to trust me. Windows 7 (Ultimate x64) is like, Vista Extreme. And by that I mean it's Vista, but alot better.
And I'm only talking about the RC 1 here - I'm sure the RTM will be even better.
If you get a chance though, you really ought to check it out. :)

IMI
05-20-2009, 05:15 AM
People will still get what is basically Vista, but if a new name has such a great psychological effect on the masses, then so be it.

:agree:
I haven't found anything yet that Windows 7 won't run - it certainly runs all my programs just as well as Vista did, if not better.
Nvidia is even making graphics card drivers for Windows 7 x64, which is definitely a cool thing. :)

EDIT:
I see in your signature you got a GTX 285. Me too, a few weeks ago. EVGA.

probiner
05-20-2009, 05:32 AM
Windows XP = Windows ME SP2? :D

I know nothing about OS structure. But looks to me that Miscrosoft puts betas on the market, on trial :D

Windows Me -> XP
Windows Vista -> 7

Oh Well, technical improvements allways need time and support...

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 05:38 AM
I know nothing about OS structure. But looks to me that Miscrosoft puts betas on the market, on trial :D

Windows Me -> XP
Windows Vista -> 7

Well, it shows. Me isn't really related to XP at all.
Win 2 -> Win 3 -> Win98 -> Win Me -> death
NT 3 (which was developed from scratch) -> NT 4 -> W2K -> XP -> Vista -> Win7
Those two different lines of development. Sure, some parts were ported into either direction, but the core/kernel of the NT line is completely different.

Cheers,
Mike

accom
05-20-2009, 06:39 AM
Oh, allow me to get back to the topic: as far as those ads are concerned: I'm a member of quite a few apple related forums and there is a lot of Win-to-Mac-switchers lately... somehow they all have a common denominator - beenig fed up of virus-and-spyware threats on Windows.

So, if you consider this, those ads do have some real basis for the message they carry, and are not completly deceiving.

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 06:58 AM
In many ways you could also start a new timeline.

Though Vista is a derivative product from NT, it also lays out a completely new foundation for graphics and sound infrastructure. The new graphics system (WDDM) is a departure from any previous Windows display driver model.
You had the same switch from NT 3.5 to NT 4.0 (and to W2K actually).

*shrugs*

Cheers,
Mike

dnch
05-20-2009, 07:20 AM
who do you hate more? Bill or Steve?
anyway.. anyone who wants shiny pink laptop with round edges, should get one..

btw. wtf is wrong with itunes? its slow as crap, you cannot copy your mp3 to your friend when he likes it...
.. i know i know.. its against the law or something.. but do you or your buddy give a crap?

IMI
05-20-2009, 07:37 AM
Oh, allow me to get back to the topic: as far as those ads are concerned: I'm a member of quite a few apple related forums and there is a lot of Win-to-Mac-switchers lately... somehow they all have a common denominator - beenig fed up of virus-and-spyware threats on Windows.

So, if you consider this, those ads do have some real basis for the message they carry, and are not completly deceiving.

Sure there's some basis for that to be a concern.
Ask them what they're doing though - where they're going on the 'net, what sites they're looking at, and what they're downloading.
Are they afraid of Windows because it doesn't protect them enough as they hop from one dodgy site to the next, that Windows doesn't allow them enough freedom to be wantonly reckless?

As I said in my first post here, would you advocate a person tying himself to a tree to avoid being run over by a car? No, of course that would be silly. You avoid being run over by a car by not wandering recklessly through traffic.
And the same goes with viruses and other malware. Windows isn't magically attracted to viruses or other malware, but it gets infected when exposed.
I've never gotten a single virus on any one of my machines in more than a decade on the 'net. Not because there's anything special about my computer or my OS or even my anti-virus software, but because there's something special about what I do on the 'net - I'm careful and I don't just download any old thing.
OTOH, I've cleaned up quite a few friends computers, some of which have been really badly infected with all kinds of crap. I ask them what they've been doing... And the answers are all the same - wanton, reckless downloading... although they never state it quite that way. ;)

So yeah, if people just want to be reckless and unconcerned, and think their real problem is their operating system, then maybe they ought to go Mac. They still have the problem though, and sooner or later that car's gonna run them over. ;)

EDIT:
What I'm saying though is, there are probably all kinds of reasons for preferring a Mac over a PC, but IMO, the virus thing should be at the very bottom of that list. That's one thing you actually have total control over, since all of that can be avoided by simply being responsible and careful.

jasonwestmas
05-20-2009, 08:08 AM
"somehow they (apple switchers) all have a common denominator - beenig fed up of virus-and-spyware threats on Windows."

apple is going to have to do better than that though to win people like myself back.

art
05-20-2009, 08:36 AM
I just spray some lysol on my computer after visiting bad sites and that's all. ;)

Well, I too have seen very bad things happen to my friends' windows computers. Somehow it never happens to me and it would be a lie if I said that I do not visit some sites and look at what most men like looking at.

Somehow some people have trouble with distinguishing real warning messages/symptoms from fake ones which fool you into installing crap, etc. I can usually see right away that something is wrong and take an action before it is too late.

There were periods of time when I had no antivirus or any other security software installed, my browsing habits were more or less the same and I still managed to keep my windows relatively clean. I occasionally had some minor malwares that were easily removed, but nothing like what I see on other people's computers. Some infections are nearly impossible to clean and sometimes it is easier to just reinstall the system. Unfortunately, those malware bstrds are getting better and better.

IMI
05-20-2009, 09:24 AM
apple is going to have to do better than that though to win people like myself back.

Yeah, exactly.
But they seem to prefer appealing to people's largely unjustified fears of PC ownership, as opposed to selling the Mac on its own voluminous merits.

Stooch
05-20-2009, 09:37 AM
Oh, allow me to get back to the topic: as far as those ads are concerned: I'm a member of quite a few apple related forums and there is a lot of Win-to-Mac-switchers lately... somehow they all have a common denominator - beenig fed up of virus-and-spyware threats on Windows.

So, if you consider this, those ads do have some real basis for the message they carry, and are not completly deceiving.

only a genuine moron would be "threatened" by spyware and viruses.

macos is well on its way to being saturated with moronic users. which is perfectly fine and appropriate as far as im concerned (and painfully obvious anytime there is a mac vs pc debate). it just reinforces the "computers for idiots" stereotype. Whether you like it or not, the mac os isnt pandering to elite technologists or professionals as much as its trying to rake up the fringe of gullible fools that place themselves in mortal danger while operating a toaster.

Scazzino
05-20-2009, 10:11 AM
...Whether you like it or not, the mac os isnt pandering to elite technologists or professionals as much as its trying to rake up the fringe of gullible fools that place themselves in mortal danger while operating a toaster.

We'd only be in mortal danger while operating a toaster, if toasters ran Windows... :D

Just joking, sorry I couldn't resist. ;)

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 10:20 AM
We'd only be in mortal danger while operating a toaster, if toasters ran Windows... :D

Hehe, well, on the other hand, you'd only be able to use iBread from the iBreadStore ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Scazzino
05-20-2009, 10:23 AM
Hehe, well, on the other hand, you'd only be able to use iBread from the iBreadStore ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Good one. :thumbsup:
But at least we wouldn't need to fumigate the toast before eating it. ;)

IMI
05-20-2009, 10:33 AM
Hehe, well, on the other hand, you'd only be able to use iBread from the iBreadStore ;)

Cheers,
Mike

:lol:
Oh man, excellent! :thumbsup:

art
05-20-2009, 10:43 AM
When I buy a Mac, I'll call myself iI.

Scazzino
05-20-2009, 11:09 AM
When I buy a Mac, I'll call myself iI.

Then you'll even be able to say:

iThink therefore iAm. :D

probiner
05-20-2009, 11:14 AM
When I buy a Mac, I'll call myself iI.

"iI captain..."

cresshead
05-20-2009, 11:26 AM
currently if you buy a mac you'll become "i'm Broke"

lots of people waiting for their iphone>> IQ

cresshead
05-20-2009, 11:27 AM
also intersting to look back on comuter tech firms now loong gone...

so when will apple and microsoft be replaced...and by whom?

gone>
atari, amiga, sinclair, dragon, apricot, oric, acorn....plus silicon graphics, next, beos, cyrix, dec alphas..

jasonwestmas
05-20-2009, 11:31 AM
Yeah, exactly.
But they seem to prefer appealing to people's largely unjustified fears of PC ownership, as opposed to selling the Mac on its own voluminous merits.

That sounds more like a cry for help from apple and a catering to people who don't care about "bang for the buck" and optimization of their systems. Which is what many of you have been saying all along, that this is Apple's only foothold in the market, to preach simplicity and style to the simple minded, which is nice. . .no it's fantastic when all you need is simplicity and great style. . .but to stay stuck there? Uh uh, no thanks, I rather learn a few tricks in the windows world and get the tech support I need when I need it. That NEEDS to be an option to the serious graphics person.

Scazzino
05-20-2009, 11:32 AM
...lots of people waiting for their iphone>> IQ

Good one! :thumbsup:


currently if you buy a mac you'll become "i'm Broke"

And if you buy a PC you can say: "It's Broke", quite often. ;)

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 11:36 AM
Then you'll even be able to say:

iThink therefore iAm. :D
Unfortunately is also come with iWork... which makes me wonder what I got the box for in the first place... ;)

But it's also Finder and not iFound!

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
05-20-2009, 11:38 AM
And if you buy a PC you can say: "It's Broke", quite often. ;)
Which is much better than "It's iBroke" - because that makes you really look like a dork :D

Cheers,
Mike

cresshead
05-20-2009, 12:08 PM
at least with a pc there's the option of 'iFix'
with a mac you'll need to 'ipay'...and isend and in the meantime you'll be iless!

IMI
05-20-2009, 12:18 PM
IMI = iMe? :question:

I know... too cruel. I'm sorry my friend :)

Don't be sorry, that was pretty good. iWish i'D thought of iT. ;)

IMI
05-20-2009, 12:24 PM
And if you buy a PC you can say: "It's Broke", quite often. ;)

Yeah, there's a good deal of that going around too, no doubt.
Which is why iBuild my own PCs. And they don't break. :)

I was thinking about building my own Mac, but... ran into kind of a snag there... it appears to not be an option. ;)

waverguy
05-20-2009, 12:58 PM
also intersting to look back on comuter tech firms now loong gone...

so when will apple and microsoft be replaced...and by whom?

gone>
atari, amiga, sinclair, dragon, apricot, oric, acorn....plus silicon graphics, next, beos, cyrix, dec alphas..

Both companies will be replaced (owned) by the government.:thumbsup:

Liber777
05-20-2009, 02:23 PM
...The graphics cards you can use under OSX these days and the choices Apple offers in their online shop is also pretty dire...

Biggest complaint I have. I've considered picking up a Mac Pro especially because I'm a bit of a UNIX fan, but the crappy graphics card choices have left me cold. It doesn't seem like Apple is really interested in the workstation and creatives market. Nice iPods, tho.

warmiak
05-20-2009, 02:25 PM
Both companies will be replaced (owned) by the government.:thumbsup:

First we will be driving crappy cars .. then using crappy computers.

Viva la revolution.

cresshead
05-20-2009, 02:27 PM
Both companies will be replaced (owned) by the government.:thumbsup:


which government?
u.k.
france
germany
japan
russian
china
cuba
angola
tuvalu
tibet

or one of the less known ones?

IMI
05-20-2009, 02:48 PM
which government?
u.k.
france
germany
japan
russian
china
cuba
angola
tuvalu
tibet

or one of the less known ones?

I vote for China.
With the government severely restricting our internet browsing, maybe we can all get some more work done. ;)

accom
05-20-2009, 03:16 PM
I really switched to Mac when I have bought my last Wintel machine - a brand computer, quite pricey, well built, nice box - everything neatly clean and accesible... Got it, pluged it in, boot from CD, partitioned HD to my preference, instaled system, restarted... than some updates from the net (quite a few, actually)... reboot, install, reboot... Then i started to install the SW I needed, and quite soon the machine started to drag... Task manager showed 100% CPU usage... processes - it showed some process (a few instances of the same system process, but I can't remember now, which was it) using almost 100% CPU usage... killed it, it ran back... killed it, it ran again.

Yes, there was no antiVirus SW on it... but the machine was connected to the net less than an hour and was allready infected! I just reinstalled everything without access to the net, installed some AV SW and install updates later. That was back in 2004 or 5... I have allways administrated every machine (except the SGIs) that I have worked on and never before have encountered anything like it.

On the other hand - an old PC, that I have left my kids to torture it, have never ever got anything... zero, nada, zilch. They kept visiting some sites with on-line games, installing any game/trial etc, but nothing... after a year - out of pure couriosity - I have scanned the machine with some AV SW and it was clean!

As I said before... competition is good. Looking down at the other side is not...

Yes, there should be a few more alternatives to this two that we argue about. The problem I see here is, that the technological progress is ever faster and the gap between the big and the small players is getting bigger and bigger...

cresshead
05-20-2009, 03:26 PM
I vote for China.
With the government severely restricting our internet browsing, maybe we can all get some more work done. ;)

i heard that!:D:agree:

avkills
05-20-2009, 08:05 PM
Biggest complaint I have. I've considered picking up a Mac Pro especially because I'm a bit of a UNIX fan, but the crappy graphics card choices have left me cold. It doesn't seem like Apple is really interested in the workstation and creatives market. Nice iPods, tho.

FYI the latest nVidia Quadro card will be available for the MacPros.

-mark

avkills
05-20-2009, 08:06 PM
who do you hate more? Bill or Steve?
anyway.. anyone who wants shiny pink laptop with round edges, should get one..

btw. wtf is wrong with itunes? its slow as crap, you cannot copy your mp3 to your friend when he likes it...
.. i know i know.. its against the law or something.. but do you or your buddy give a crap?

Great except that iTunes does not use the crappy MP3 format as standard. But you are more than welcome to rip CDs as MP3s and give to all you wish.

The only thing wrong with iTunes is people who are ignorant. ;)

-mark

avkills
05-20-2009, 08:09 PM
Ditto. I'm writing this from my MacPro at work under OSX 10.5.7. It does what I generally need it to do. But once I need to leverage all the power in the workstation I boot it up in Vista x64 since modo and LightWave render 10% faster under Vista than under OSX on the same hardware.

Vista bashing shows only ignorance.

That is good to know. But one thing I do know is that our IT department can't switch to Vista because the networking has been completely revamped and breaks the speaker management system. Whatever -- that is their problem.

Personally I have nothing against Vista -- seems to run just fine using VMware. I wouldn't call it better than OS X though; just my opinion.

-mark

cresshead
05-20-2009, 08:14 PM
i have to say itunes is not one of my fav bits of software but we should also mention it's available in vista as well as osx so it's a mute point in reality.

apple mac's are okay...they are currently abit over priced and underdeveloped specwise for the imac, mac mini and macbook...i would have expected a quadcore imac by now like dell offers with their imac clone and the macbook's spec is too little for too much cash....as for the mac mini...waaay over priced..should be £250 not £500.

the mac pro is just about the right pricepoint but it's at the hi end of the market to start with.

one plus point of course is that buying a mac means you also have the ability to run windows if you wish to unlike a windows pc..and before someone jumps about a pc being able to run osx>
no, not a hackintosh...that's a non starter in my book.

jasonwestmas
05-20-2009, 08:34 PM
I might use OSX for some things more often if it ran on my self-built computers by default.

avkills
05-21-2009, 01:57 PM
i have to say itunes is not one of my fav bits of software but we should also mention it's available in vista as well as osx so it's a mute point in reality.

apple mac's are okay...they are currently abit over priced and underdeveloped specwise for the imac, mac mini and macbook...i would have expected a quadcore imac by now like dell offers with their imac clone and the macbook's spec is too little for too much cash....as for the mac mini...waaay over priced..should be £250 not £500.

the mac pro is just about the right pricepoint but it's at the hi end of the market to start with.

one plus point of course is that buying a mac means you also have the ability to run windows if you wish to unlike a windows pc..and before someone jumps about a pc being able to run osx>
no, not a hackintosh...that's a non starter in my book.

Quadcore iMac, hell where the heck is my Quad Core laptop? I was hovering over maybe getting a Quad MacPro, but decided my G5 was good enough for home still and bought car mods instead for the MX5.

-mark

Jockomo
05-24-2009, 12:25 PM
After 5 months with the Mac, I'm actually enjoying using a computer again. It's been a long time.

Walter

Funny, it's exactly the opposite for me, macs ALWAYS crash and PCs don't.

Maybe it's the user an not the computer?

cresshead
05-24-2009, 12:48 PM
you CAN get quadcore laptops btw!...not from apple mind you!

avkills
05-24-2009, 09:48 PM
you CAN get quadcore laptops btw!...not from apple mind you!

Grrrr! I know. But I need it to be a Mac, since I need Final Cut Studio on it.

-mark

IMI
05-24-2009, 10:59 PM
Apple doesn't have quad core laptops? I know you can get get a PeeCee quad core laptop, and have been able to for a good while now, but no Mac?

That's odd. How come they don't mention that in their commercials? :D

IMI
05-25-2009, 07:47 AM
I'm thinking it's got to be a simple oversight on Apple's part.
I mean, what with the Mac being world renowned for it's catering to the creative pursuits and with more and more creative types using laptops, you would think it should have been a high priority.

I think maybe Apple ought to direct some of that creative energy of their own towards actually competing with PeeCee on a technological level, as opposed to simply slandering him in commercials. ;)

EDIT:
Just for the sake of saying it again, Windows 7 rocks. For being only a release candidate and not the RTM, it's surprisingly stable.

IMI
05-25-2009, 08:22 AM
Heh. Yeah, $300.00 worth of "put my mind at ease". ;)

But actually, there are some apparent differences. For one, I can actually use disk indexing now as it's not *constantly* checking every file part on every disk. Very very little disk activity compared to Vista, actually. And the libraries and "pin to taskbar" features are totally cool, plus you can now right click on a folder and select to open it in a separate window.
Lots of little added functionality, really, plus there's obviously been a good deal of performance related issues solved under the hood.
I guess it has DirectX 11 now too. Although I don't think anything yet actually uses DX 11, but it's there....

accom
05-25-2009, 08:27 AM
Just a simple question: why are PeeCee systems sold with Windows Vista AND a free downgrade CD containg XP?

IMI
05-25-2009, 08:35 AM
Just a simple question: why are PeeCee systems sold with Windows Vista AND a free downgrade CD containg XP?

Because PC manufacturers ignored Microsoft telling them they had to create their own drivers and alot of them fell short on driver support, creating unstable systems.
Not a problem really for those of us who build our own, but for your off-the-shelf guy, yeah, it was a big issue in the cheaper PC's.

Also, because so many people took a first look at Vista, couldn't figure it out, decided it was crap, read other people saying it was crap, so in their minds it became crap, with no effort to learn it. Vista was very much different from XP, and people didn't want to know what was different and how to use it, just wanted to believe it wasn't even worth using.

And alot of people totally ignored what was stated that alot of older hardware wouldn't run on Vista, then cried when it was actually true.

Meanwhile, many of us ignored all that and learned it and used it and loved it.

Lightwolf
05-25-2009, 08:37 AM
Just a simple question: why are PeeCee systems sold with Windows Vista AND a free downgrade CD containg XP?
For the same reason that OSX on PPCs still contains OS9 - backward compatibility.

In this case mainly corporate environments (which is why it is only available for Vista/XP Business in the first place) that run loads of outdated and/or proprietary software. An OS upgrade can cause quite a few headaches if you're dealing with tens of thousands of PCs...

Cheers,
Mike

jasonwestmas
05-25-2009, 08:43 AM
Just a simple question: why are PeeCee systems sold with Windows Vista AND a free downgrade CD containg XP?

Because MS screwed up first and fixed their problems later. The transition from Win2000 to XP was a similar retro-shock.

There has always been a lot of EEK! I don't like that, I think I'll run into the past where everything is sunny and mediocre. ;)

People fear the unknown and like someone told me on this forum, people who don't fear the unknown are called explorers. . .

jasonwestmas
05-25-2009, 08:45 AM
For the same reason that OSX on PPCs still contains OS9 - backward compatibility.

In this case mainly corporate environments (which is why it is only available for Vista/XP Business in the first place) that run loads of outdated and/or proprietary software. An OS upgrade can cause quite a few headaches if you're dealing with tens of thousands of PCs...

Cheers,
Mike

Well, that's true to, it's tough to keep up with the latest os sometimes.

ted
05-25-2009, 09:25 AM
.....because .....so many people.... read other people saying it was crap, so in their minds it became crap, with no effort to learn it.

Well said. It became fashionable to say it and people felt it made them look smart to repeat it. Once we got the drivers for our Rocket Raid controller card we it's been great for us.
I don't think Vista is perfect, but it ain't the devil as some people claim. :devil: :D

mosconariz
05-25-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't think Vista is perfect, but it ain't the devil as some people claim. :devil: :D


Is the devil, I put in front of my PC a crucifix and it freezed:devil:

Stunt Pixels
05-25-2009, 11:18 PM
A well timed side note. My neighbor just came by, her computer was stuffed, browser hijacked. OSX and Safari. It's been literally years since I saw a computer infected by a virus, or hijacked browser, or spyware. So I found it pretty amusing that it was a Mac.

Anyway, fixed it all, so she's happy now. But I don't think you'll find her saying Mac's are safer than PC's... Then again, she may stick with the story...

And no, I'm not saying Mac's are safer, or more dangerous, than PC's. Just that it pretty much all comes down to the user.

Stooch
05-25-2009, 11:44 PM
lol this thread kind of brings a tear to my eye. i remember it was only a short year or so ago that just opening my mouth about macs vs pcs and all the BS that surrounds this retarded little competition - would bring down the feces on me like a monkey zoo exhibit.

People just take their software entirely too personally. but of course its always a pleasure to make them cry ;)

Philbert
05-30-2009, 08:47 AM
Ooh! I almost missed a thread on one of my favorite topics. Those commercials where D-Bag tells blatant lies to Cuddly Friendly Guy. I love how they go on and on about how macs are for people who like fun, then somehow fail to mention video games entirely. I wonder why.

Then as someone else pointed out they pretty much imply that if you're on a PC you will get viruses. I don't think I've ever had one and all I did was install a free AV program once (AVG Free) then click the OK button when it automatically tells me there's an update once every few weeks. In fact, I can't even remember the last time it thought it found one.

A recent one is one of my favorites the one where D-Bag invites his friend, the "genius". How conceded is that? These are the geniuses that make me schedule an appointment just to talk to someone at the store, then when I get there, a few minutes early mind you, I still have to wait a half hour.

I'll admit it I own an apple product, a Gen1 iPhone. After a few months it stopped working, I brought it in and they replaced it, with a broken one! Then I brought that one in and they replaced it again, but the screen is going dead. I would replace it again but my warranty ran out so I can't. So much for their fantastic hardware.


Buy a PC Laptop and you can run Hackintosh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSx86

To be honest I looked into this once because I figured I should get to know the basics of the OS in the event that some studio forces me to use one. I have an older laptop that I don't use much anymore and XP still runs perfectly on it, but it looked like a lot of work. I'm sure as heck not going to buy one, a guy I know suggested a refurbished macbook pro. I was doubtful but I looked at the refurbished prices anyway. Even the cheapest refurb was nearly twice what I paid for my high end HP Pavilion laptop last year and the features didn't even compare.

What would be ideal is an OSX Live DVD. I have seen a few sites with people attempting to make them but it seems odd like you need to actually build and burn it yourself, from a mac or something.


so i just received my packet in the mail for Full Sail

Gack! Don't say that! I think I'm going to be sick... :stumped:

I will conclude my post with a link to my favorite mac ad.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yg7Xh0m_Oco

AdamAvenali
05-30-2009, 08:53 AM
Gack! Don't say that! I think I'm going to be sick...

haha no worries Philbert. i actually got the same reaction from multiple sources, so it's not looking good for Full Sail. i also got the same reaction for SCAD, so it's not looking good for them either haha

Philbert
05-30-2009, 09:05 AM
I suggest moving to FL and going to DAVE. FL is not that expensive, I had a pretty nice 1 bdrm apartment for $650/mo. about 1 mile from Universal Studios. I think DAVE also has housing options now, something they didn't have when I was there.

AdamAvenali
05-30-2009, 09:19 AM
I suggest moving to FL and going to DAVE. FL is not that expensive, I had a pretty nice 1 bdrm apartment for $650/mo. about 1 mile from Universal Studios. I think DAVE also has housing options now, something they didn't have when I was there.

well, the original plan was to eventually be a college professor. i was just going to go to one of those two schools now to get my MFA and get it out of the way instead of waiting until i was ready to teach (which could be 5-10 years down the road). the degree would be graphic design rather than 3d as well.

Kabaal
05-30-2009, 04:37 PM
Its been quite a long time since I have seen a Mac vs PC thread, forgotten how much fun they are. :)

At the end of the day these types of arguments will always be around and there will always be crusaders for both sides. Some good examples are:

SEGA vs Nintendo.
Atari vs Amiga.
CD vs LP.
BMW vs Mercedes.
brown bread vs white bread.
crunchy vs smooth... ok i'm running out of ideas now but you get my point.

Use whatever works best for you. Any tool or machine is only as good as the person operating it but please dont stop the arguments, they are so entertaining!! :D

Philbert
05-30-2009, 06:52 PM
Pfft, Sega Dreamcast still kicks Nintendo's butt. :p

Philbert
05-31-2009, 05:08 AM
BTW I have found info on a currently working Live DVD for OSX86:

http://pcwizcomputer.com/ipcosx86/?page_id=201

don_culbertson
06-01-2009, 04:38 PM
...and I'm a (linux) penguin :D

Don

jasonwestmas
06-01-2009, 07:36 PM
What's a kubuntu??

don_culbertson
06-01-2009, 08:11 PM
What's a kubuntu??

Well, it's a different breed of penguin :D

Don

jasonwestmas
06-01-2009, 08:16 PM
Well, it's a different breed of penguin :D

Don

hehe, I knew it!