View Full Version : Does yours hang to the left or to the right?

08-20-2003, 03:42 PM
When working in symmetry mode I always hit a mental/visual brick wall as I prefer to grab points on the OPPOSITE half of my model that Modeler would have me grab them on.

The ability to set a preference so that we can work in symmetry mode and push or pull points on either the left or right half of the model (doesn't have to be both sides at the same time though that would be nice) would be very very welcome to this user!



08-25-2003, 08:05 PM
A true Symmetry tool that allows you to work in any axis would be cool.

08-26-2003, 11:54 AM
It would be great if the point you drag just followed the Mouse and the symmetrical one did the oposite the one being dragged.

I hate that I have to stop to figure out which side I am on.


08-27-2003, 07:30 PM
yes it would be very cool !

09-04-2003, 03:16 PM
I agree the symmetry tool needs some work. Personal I think there should be user definable axis and placement of symmetry.

Think of it like using the mirror tool with free rotation on. Place it in the appropriate viewport (and not limited to the 0.0 position or rotation of the axis). Each layer should be capable of its own mirroring axis just like pivot,
But like with the mouse modes for switching between selection, mouse, pivot…etc…There should be a mode switching to go back to X,Y, or Z symmetry on the 0.0 axis.

Perhaps having an auto align to 3+ selected points.

02-19-2004, 12:47 AM
so is this up for LW8 NewTek?

02-21-2004, 02:48 PM
Well another thing that should be cool with the symmetry mode should be the ability to have a not perfect symmetry mode at all.........I know it sounds a bit cryptic....but I'm going to explain....

An interesting addon to this mode would be the possibility to check an extra option (that can be enabled/disabled in real time ) so that when you model you can choose that the symmetrical points created are slightly Asymmetrical from the original points being manipulated, like if they are Jittered around the correct position in all the axes alike.

That would be interesting when modeling organic shapes and characters for adding a realistic mood by creating not perfectly symmetrical geometry....and I'm pretty sure It would be not difficult to implement......

02-21-2004, 05:11 PM
The problem with that in how the current symetry mode works is that once you break symetry LW can no longer automatically select the points/polys on the opposite side when you're making your selections. There would have to be a new way of keeping track of the point pairs, which becomes complicated when working with objects with unsymetrical geometry in symetrical mode.

02-21-2004, 08:01 PM
Extent can you expose the concept a little better, I didn't follow you perfectly.

If I've understood what you said, then you refer to the problem that there is no symmetry anymore because of those jittered points and so when you select symmetry again then there is no correspondence between each side with those points.
That should be true.

But this could be avoided if when activating the symmetry mode Modeler could create a buffer that caches the ID of the points that are symmetrical to others, this way Modeler knows what points are symmetrical to what points. It retains the information needed to use symmetrical again.
Indeed when manipulating a point (eg: on left side ) if the mirrored copy is a point that appears on the buffer then manipulating the original point means that we want to move even the mirrored copy ( this not necessarily ) so Modeler could automatically restore its position ( the exact mirrored position of the original point ) then apply the transformation to the original point, by doing so, because you are in symmetry mode, you will also change the mirrored point, and when manipulation to the original point is completed it applies the same jitter the point had before of the last manipulation ( this could be very useful ).

Anyway, maybe a better way to do this things would be adding to the .lwo file information like :

ID of symmetrical point : x or none
Jittered difference position :
X-axis offset : x or none
Y-axis offset : y or none
Z-axis offset : z or none

This way if no symmetry mode has been used all these informations would be set to none.
Else when setting symmetry mode on and adding geometry those points would retain information on their symmetrical points, this speeding up the use of symmetry tool because Modeler must not search if a point with mirrored coordinates does exists, it already knows !

Some things should be considered when you toggle off the symmetry mode, if you delete a point that has a referenced point as a mirrored point, it should set those addon informations of the remaining point to "none" .

Someone could say why adding information to the .lwo file format, good question, infact why should we add weight to the .lwo format, those informations are useless for those who don't use that tool and would also end up with a bigger file.
This would also mean support for the third parties that does support the .lwo format.

So to avoid this a custom new file format could be saved with the file.
This files would be small because it would contain only the infos for the points that have any mirrors.

It could be done this way : Save .lwo with .sym
And load .lwo with .sym

This would permit a better control on the use of symmetry mode in many other ways that we haven't considered.

Always too much cryptic :D


02-21-2004, 09:17 PM
There is a way to Auto select points that are *not* symmetrically opposed to each other.

What you do is to create a morph of your nice symmetrical object. & *only* work on the endomorph. You can drag one side all over the place until it's as lopsided as the Elephant Man, but no matter what you do, the opposite point will be selected.

Once you have the morph, you can even move it off centre, and rotate it to any angle, the selection in symmetry mode still works, so you can have symmetry in Z or Y depending on how you rotate the object.

Once you're finished, go back to the base object, apply morph, and delete your endomorph. Dadaaa!!

I can't believe I managed to think of that at this time in the morning ;)

02-21-2004, 09:40 PM
Thats clever mkii. I sometimes create an endomorph to store deformed version of a mesh, but never thought of it this way.

Jinxius, I think your request could be solved through the use of a custom vertexmap where corresponding points on both sides would share the same "symmetricalID". It would basically do the same thing your suggestion does, but wouldn't brake the lwo format and be more efficent. Although, NT would naturally have to make some changes to the symmetry function so it would be able to look for and use the custom vmap instead of the true coordinates.

02-22-2004, 06:48 AM
I too often have the desire to pick the points on the right as oppposed to the left (even though logically, it should be the same.)

However, I find sometimes picking the right points works in Symmetry mode; and the times it doesn't, if I move the point in opposite direction to what I want, I get the desired effect.

Still, it would be better if it worked correctly.

02-22-2004, 07:58 AM
...MkIII... interesting technique, have to try that...

...I think your request could be solved through the use of a custom vertexmap where corresponding points on both sides would share the same "symmetricalID"...

Yes evenflcw, that could be an interesting way, in any case a bit of code working on the symmetry tool mode have to be done for helping us artists on getting major control and better performance over those features.