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OnlineRender
05-04-2009, 03:43 AM
howdy people hope all is well ?

Did anybody else Beta Windows 7 ?

i got a nice email today saying that my free copy of windows 7 is avilable for download .

"Thank you very much for your help in testing the Windows 7 Beta. Your feedback is
invaluable in helping make Windows 7 a high quality operating system. With your help, we
have reached the next major milestone on the journey to Windows 7: the Release Candidate
(RC).



So you donít need rush to make sure you get your copy. When youíre ready to download the
RC, itíll be waiting for you. "


:) excellent beta testing paid off .

now the question do i install it

akademus
05-04-2009, 04:13 AM
I've got email, too.

So do you install it? ;)

IMI
05-04-2009, 04:36 AM
Do you get a free copy of Windows 7 when the final is released?

Or does your hard work get paid back one day with a friendly message: "We're sorry, but this RC has expired and now you must Buy Windows 7. Your computer will not boot now or ever again until you pay us."

I think the least they could do is give the testers a free OEM license. It's not like they're not going to sell umpteen bazillion copies anyway.

IMI
05-04-2009, 04:49 AM
I didn't even try it, wasn't even interested. I spent a few seconds regretting that right after the open beta ended and I couldn't get it anymore, but that feeling passed soon enough. ;)

I have seen it and have messed around with it a little, as one of my friends took the plunge and installed it at his house. I had mixed feelings about it, but I'm sure he didn't have it set up right and I didn't want to change his whole setup on him.

It LOOKED nice though. But it seems the quick launch toolbar was gone. I sure hope that's not the case, because I use that feature all the time.

OnlineRender
05-04-2009, 06:19 AM
I used it before the beta release date got nuked , i found alot of pre purchased software didnt work for example my anti virus , LW was unstable aswell .
by now i think the have xp emulator installed which can just about run anything on any bit rate .

But im Linux ,i may install it on my spare machine , just to give it a whirl and see if my recommendations to MS have changed anything .

SUDO> linux rulez

Ernest
05-04-2009, 09:19 AM
It LOOKED nice though. But it seems the quick launch toolbar was gone. I sure hope that's not the case, because I use that feature all the time.

The quick launch bar was replaced with the ability to pin programs on the taskbar.

ivanze
05-04-2009, 11:28 AM
I installed it here, and until now everything is working very nice and fast. Win 7 x64.

IMI
05-04-2009, 12:46 PM
The quick launch bar was replaced with the ability to pin programs on the taskbar.

Ah, I see, thanks.
I didn't really mess with anything in my brief time looking it over, as I said, but that sounds pretty cool, really. I've actually kind of wished for such a feature many times, or more specifically, the ability to create multiple Quick Launch toolbars.

Does it limit the number you can have though without interfering with the open programs that are on the task bar? I have somewhere around 30 programs and utilities in my Quick Launch and they're nice and organized that way, and with the taskbar pulled down to about 4 times its normal width I have plenty of room for all the running programs. I say "pulled down", because I keep it at the top of my secondary monitor screen.
When you run out of room on the task bar it starts grouping things together with little dropdown arrows for selection and I really don't like that.

So I hope Windows 7 isn't being designed for people who only want 3 or 4 programs pinned to the taskbar and don't do extreme multi-tasking. ;)

Ember
05-04-2009, 01:05 PM
So I hope Windows 7 isn't being designed for people who only want 3 or 4 programs pinned to the taskbar and don't do extreme multi-tasking. ;)

I currently have 10 programs pinned to the taskbar. Did a test though and pinned software as long as space ended from the taskbar. Small up/down arrow appeared in the right edge which allows you to change the line which contains taskbar pinned applications and of course if you increase the size of the taskbar then you'll see multiple lines of applications. So it should work just the way you want it to work.

On a side note though: I find it MUCH more efficient just to keep those software pinned you need all the time (and I mean all the time) and open those you don't need daily by opening start menu and typing the name of the software you want to open (or actually part of the name) and open it there. Keeps taskbar clean and other software is still very fast and easy to open. In my opinion 30+ quicklaunch (or win 7 taskbar) applications sounds like absolute horror :) But that's just my opinion.

IMI
05-04-2009, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the info, Ember. I suppose I'll have to check it out the next time I get a chance.
No, my Quick Launch isn't as bad as it sounds, as the shortcut icons that don't fit are accessible through a drop-down to the right of all of them. I had to use Window Blinds to get that in XP, and now I can't remember if it's an option in XP or not, but it's built in in Vista and it works nicely.
I do have some pinned to the start menu though, as well as a few custom toolbars. I'm extremely anal when it comes to being organized and have to have everything categorized and shortcutted - programs, folders, help files, pretty much everything.

Ember
05-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Thanks for the info, Ember. I suppose I'll have to check it out the next time I get a chance.
No, my Quick Launch isn't as bad as it sounds, as the shortcut icons that don't fit are accessible through a drop-down to the right of all of them. I had to use Window Blinds to get that in XP, and now I can't remember if it's an option in XP or not, but it's built in in Vista and it works nicely.

I'm guessing you'll love Win 7's new jumplist feature and of course program grouping. Win 7 automatically groups same instances of a program being ran. I disliked it for a minute since it was different, then started to like it. And I do recognize the power of jumplists as long as programs start to support it.


I do have some pinned to the start menu though, as well as a few custom toolbars. I'm extremely anal when it comes to being organized and have to have everything categorized and shortcutted - programs, folders, help files, pretty much everything.

Hehe, I know what you mean :) I did exactly the same in XP, kept everything in order the way I wanted and spent quite a bit of time doing so. I've kinda forgot all about that in Win 7 due to it's new taskbar and windows search (familiar from vista, just seems to work better).

dweinkauf
05-04-2009, 03:36 PM
posted by OnlineRender.....
"by now i think the have xp emulator installed which can just about run anything on any bit rate."

I have avoided Vista because I couldn't run my older equipment on it. I've heard some good things about Windows 7. With the XP emulator installed, will Windows 7 allow me to run my old equipment that I've been using with XP?

Silkrooster
05-04-2009, 10:49 PM
My luck the email would be coming from a virus perp.

"thank you for installing virus 7 - Have a nice day" :D

AbnRanger
05-05-2009, 12:48 PM
howdy people hope all is well ?

Did anybody else Beta Windows 7 ?

i got a nice email today saying that my free copy of windows 7 is avilable for download .

"Thank you very much for your help in testing the Windows 7 Beta. Your feedback is
invaluable in helping make Windows 7 a high quality operating system. With your help, we
have reached the next major milestone on the journey to Windows 7: the Release Candidate
(RC).


So you don’t need rush to make sure you get your copy. When you’re ready to download the
RC, it’ll be waiting for you. "


:) excellent beta testing paid off .

now the question do i install itI was able to get a key several weeks ago, but when I tried to download the beta it stated that Beta testing was over. I got the same e-mail about the RC...still can't download anything cause I still hit a deadend. Microsoft really has their stuff together, don't they? They still have up this apparatus to join the beta testing, only to tell you "Sorry, dead-end road" once you get to the end of the process.

The only reason I wanted to test the darned thing in the first place is because Vista has turned out to be a piece of trash for an OS...seems to me Win 7 is just Vista...FIXED!
How appropriate are those MAC commercials taking shots at PC (Cough...Cough....Windows)

COBRASoft
05-05-2009, 07:12 PM
Sometimes, I'm wondering why people so hate Windows Vista/Windows7. I mean, are the drivers better in Linux (don't think so)? Is it the lack of security in Windows (Windows Vista is as secured as Linux nowadays, only much more attacked)? Is it the developing environments? Is it the FileSystem? Is it the Windows Explorer? Is it Office?

I know 1 thing. I have no problems with Windows since Windows 2000. I'm using Directory Opus from the moment it came out for Windows and used it ever since. Nothing on Linux can be compared to that as far as I know of.

The real problem is, that people expect a lot from Windows. Everything has to go automatically. From Linux they know and expect problems (drivers, ...) and much more willing to search for solutions.

IMI
05-05-2009, 07:22 PM
I think some people just get off on being as vocal as possible regarding their dislike for Windows, particularly Vista, and try not to miss out on an opportunity to air their opinions.
I'd say in most cases they're looking for a confrontation for whatever reason.

dweinkauf
05-05-2009, 09:01 PM
I didn't go with Vista for two very simple reasons - it wouldn't work with my older but still very good equipment and I had no time to spend with configuration. When I upgraded my workstations with XP Pro and XP 64, I simply plugged in my older equipment, turned the machine on, rearranged some desktop icons and went to work. No system configuration necessary. I went with what worked for me.

AbnRanger
05-05-2009, 10:20 PM
I think some people just get off on being as vocal as possible regarding their dislike for Windows, particularly Vista, and try not to miss out on an opportunity to air their opinions.
I'd say in most cases they're looking for a confrontation for whatever reason.So, when someone experiences numerous issues with a new OS, they can't vocalize it without being called confrontational? They HAVE to agree with you in order to maintain legitimacy?
I still have Vista trying to install the same update over and over and over...and I had to disable a key feature of Vista (UAC) due to all the hassles. I had to buy an NVidia card after already buying an ATI recently. Some would point the finger at ATI...perhaps...but prior to Vista, I had 0 issues with ATI cards. Vista seems to be giving ATI fits cause driver after driver, I had all kinds of issues. Contemplated having to buy XP 64, but then you have to go through hours and hours of re-installing programs...just because Vista is trash. Can't believe they actually charge folks to have to endure the headaches associated with such a screw-up. An OS telling the Administrator, logged onto his Administrator acct, that he isn't really the administrator, and that he needs to get permission from the administrator to simply moved a file from point a to point b. THAT is a freakin joke for an OS if there ever was one! Do you really want to copy that? If so...go ask the administrator. If you don't want to be hassled EVERY time you want to do the simplest thing, you have to research how to rip the guts out of this collosal mistake of an OS.
Obviously my experience isn't an isolated case...Vista is Apple's marketing equivalent of the "Golden Egg."

I was hoping MS would have gotten things straightened out in 7, but I won't know until it's commercial and I will have no way to TRY before I buy in order to determine if they ironed these kinds of issues out. Issues I never had in XP. You have no problems...fine. But I have, and I have every right to voice my concerns regarding the problems I've had. Do I need to run it through you, or the forum police, to have an opinion?

radams
05-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Hi Don,

It sounds like you've been thru hell and back with Vista.

You're not alone...From what I've seen and been told by friends...has been both no issues at all...to this was the worst OS they've ever had to deal with...

ATI still hasn't gotten their drivers fixed ? I thought they had.

Are you running Vista 64? With how much Ram ?

Have you had issues with 32bit, 64bit or both applications ?

From what I've been told and read so far Windows 7 is really what Vista should have been...I'm looking forward to putting an i7 system with Windows 7, 64 bit.

For those who've gotten to test out the RC build...please keep us updated here as to how things are going with your workflows...and NT's LW, and other tools.

Thanks,

AbnRanger
05-05-2009, 10:56 PM
Hi Don,

It sounds like you've been thru hell and back with Vista.

You're not alone...From what I've seen and been told by friends...has been both no issues at all...to this was the worst OS they've ever had to deal with...

ATI still hasn't gotten their drivers fixed ? I thought they had.

Are you running Vista 64? With how much Ram ?

Have you had issues with 32bit, 64bit or both applications ?

From what I've been told and read so far Windows 7 is really what Vista should have been...I'm looking forward to putting an i7 system with Windows 7, 64 bit.

For those who've gotten to test out the RC build...please keep us updated here as to how things are going with your workflows...and NT's LW, and other tools.

Thanks,I couldn't get the Catalyst Control Center to come up any time I update my drivers. You have to jump through several hoops each time you update them, to get it to work. I had to get ATI support to answer this and a user shouldn't have to endure these headaches (having to go to the registry...delete stuff and then re-install...etc).
I use Combustion as much as anything and in Vista it was practically unusable...only about 75% functional. How would you like it if LW was only 75% usable with Vista. I can't imagine that it is just ATI to blame for this...not when I have had a trouble free experience with ATI cards in XP 32 and 64bit.
I bit the bullet and bought an NVidia card to see if it worked better...it did. But that's just one issue solved...and now I've got an ATI card gathering dust. Will have to try and sell it on Ebay or something and take at least a $100 hit because of Vista. Bitter about that...hell yeah, I am.

radams
05-05-2009, 11:06 PM
To be honest I've never really liked ATI's drivers...

I've been for the most part a Nvidia guy...but I've several friends who have ATI cards...that they finnally got to work with the latest drivers...and yes they had to clean up the registry as well...but they now work.

So you're into combustion...sorry that AutoDesk dropped it.

It had its uses....

Are you looking to replace it in your workflow.
I can recommend Fusion...

Photoshop/AE really still aren't up to the task to compare.
and Mirage is no more...and was only 8 bit only.
There is TVPaint...but again that is only 8 bit.
We need something that can handle floating point color depth, and sequences. for both production paint/ animation...along with composting

Sure wish there was an application that could be a flame jr...that would work on the desktop...and didn't cost and arm and a leg...and would work with Windows...Andrew are you listening...for the Next Gen Video Products ?

Cheers,

AbnRanger
05-05-2009, 11:36 PM
To be honest I've never really liked ATI's drivers...

I've been for the most part a Nvidia guy...but I've several friends who have ATI cards...that they finnally got to work with the latest drivers...and yes they had to clean up the registry as well...but they now work.

So you're into combustion...sorry that AutoDesk dropped it.

It had its uses....

Are you looking to replace it in your workflow.
I can recommend Fusion...

Photoshop/AE really still aren't up to the task to compare.
and Mirage is no more...and was only 8 bit only.
There is TVPaint...but again that is only 8 bit.
We need something that can handle floating point color depth, and sequences. for both production paint/ animation...along with composting

Sure wish there was an application that could be a flame jr...that would work on the desktop...and didn't cost and arm and a leg...and would work with Windows...Andrew are you listening...for the Next Gen Video Products ?

Cheers,Regarding Combustion, it hasn't been "officially" dropped. It's officially an enigma. Development is practically non-existent and AD won't officially declare it dead, but what's funny is that it's being bundled with 3ds Max (with Mudbox and MotionBuilder) at Academic resellers. Maya gets Toxic instead of Combustion.
I love Combustion, and wish they would keep it under development...at least if they plan on killing it, instead just hand it over to the 3ds Max dev team and let them offer it with every seat of Max from here on out. It is an exceptionally valuable companion to 3ds Max, with it's integration feaures. One of which is the ability to use Combustion as a live texture painting tool within the Max viewport...and change texture maps/color/materials in post (without having to re-render).

It's also nice to have pretty decent options to do particles in post.

But, yeah...I've got the Fusion PLE installed and trying to learn it as a long term answer. Fusion 6 looks great as it introduces GPU rendering of frames...not just OpenGL, among other nice features.

Getting back to Vista...I think Win7 is MS's acknowledgment of Vista's troubles. Many folks are still new to Vista, and yet here you have another MS OS in such short order. I think they need to quit trying to milk users for yet another and make it a free upgrade (like a Service Pack) to Vista owners

IMI
05-06-2009, 01:25 AM
So, when someone experiences numerous issues with a new OS, they can't vocalize it without being called confrontational? They HAVE to agree with you in order to maintain legitimacy?


Was I looking at you when I said that?
I was responding to what COBRASoft said, i.e., "Sometimes, I'm wondering why people so hate Windows Vista/Windows7"
You are by no means the only one around bashing Vista on a regular basis.



Do I need to run it through you, or the forum police, to have an opinion?

Hmm, where have I heard that before? Oh, right, I asked you that when you jumped on me for having an opinion about max 2010's default UI.
Oh, but that's different, not really the same thing... because in max its obvious how to fix it, while in Vista it may take a step or two more to figure it out.

I really hope you don't go with Windows 7. The UAC is still there, for one. I'm pretty sure you won't like it anyway. I think you're better off staying with XP for as long as you possibly can.

OnlineRender
05-06-2009, 01:26 AM
Linux for networking - dosnt make my CPU and HD go zoooooooooooooooooooom to what windows xp does .. also i find that my internet connection seems faster , quote ye windows 7 is XP fixed , runs smooth but still having some problems with software mainly zbrush atm , keeps freezing . other than that its a litlle heavy on the proccesor and ram , but runs cool
BASH> you seen the linux pc / mac video "funny "

IMI
05-06-2009, 01:34 AM
I can't imagine that it is just ATI to blame for this...not when I have had a trouble free experience with ATI cards in XP 32 and 64bit.


Ah, but it *is* ATI who is at fault. MS dropped support for hardware such as video cards and software such as OpenGL and told the manufacturers they had to deal with it. Well ahead of time, not after the fact. Some chose to ignore that or deal with it half-assed, such as ATI. You didn't have trouble in XP because of that, and 32 or 64 bit makes no difference.



I bit the bullet and bought an NVidia card to see if it worked better...it did. But that's just one issue solved...and now I've got an ATI card gathering dust. Will have to try and sell it on Ebay or something and take at least a $100 hit because of Vista. Bitter about that...hell yeah, I am.

That's because Nvidia took Microsoft seriously and jumped on the problem and got it solved fairly quickly. ATI doesn't give a sh*t about 3D people and OpenGL. ATI is a maker of gamer cards, less interested in OpenGL, as opposed to Nvidia, aside from their FireGL cards. Which still aren't much of a threat to Quadro, except for on Mac OSX, which Nvidia treats as ATI treats Vista.

Matt
05-06-2009, 02:37 AM
Plus, a lot of people base their hatred of Vista based on the first experience, driver issues, early version etc.

The Vista I'm running is solid as a rock, no driver issues and it's just as quick as my XP install.

Looking forward to Win7.

Question is, do I install it (have the RC downloaded and ready).

IMI
05-06-2009, 04:12 AM
Looking forward to Win7.

Question is, do I install it (have the RC downloaded and ready).

The question you need to ask yourself is, "Do I feel lucky?"
Well, do you, Matt? :D

Of course you know the answer to that. I'd say sure, why not, but only on a separate partition as a dual boot. There are and have been people using it as their main OS for a while now, but after all it *is* only a RC and who knows what insidious as yet undiscovered problems are waiting for you...

The way I feel about it is if I had a copy I might install it to mess around with it and get an early feel for it, but I have no interest in using a beta OS for my main OS, and even less interest in helping out Microsoft unless they're giving me a free version for my efforts.

All depends on if you have the time to mess with it and the willingness to deal with any problems it might create for you...

COBRASoft
05-06-2009, 05:28 AM
I'm wondering how many people with Vista problems really read the requirements. Microsoft clearly stated that the video and audio drivers had to be rewritten for the new OS. If NVidia, ATI, HP, Dell, ... didn't do it or started too late with it, then the end-user had problems and blamed Vista. Sorry guys, NO! It's not Microsofts fault that 3rd party drivers didn't work. I admit, UAC is stupid as hell, so just turn it off and get over it.

Concerning Windows 7, it is Vista.1. So all drivers working in Vista should work on Windows 7. From the moment the real version comes out, I'll be switching to Win 7 x64 for sure.

Medi8or
05-06-2009, 06:21 AM
Funny..
It's not Microsofts fault that some hardware doesn't have (decent) drivers for Vista, it's the manufacturers fault. I think I heard the same thing 10 years ago, but with Linux.

"Windows supports Thingybob(tm), and Linux doesn't!"
"It's the hardware manufacturers that.."
*fingers in ears* "Nananananaaa.."

:D

Matt
05-06-2009, 06:55 AM
I am first and foremost an "Application User". I spend precious little time with the OS itself, I just need it to be fast and rock solid when I run apps on top of it and I want it to be 64-bit with great software availability - that's all I ask

Ditto, but it has to look half-decent too, I can't work with horrible UIs, they just bug me to high heaven, I'm not the biggest fan of Vista's UI (nor Win7 for that matter, too many borders around stuff).

But I'm used to it now.

IMI
05-06-2009, 07:07 AM
I got Window Blinds for XP a good while ago when I was still using XP.
Now I like Vista's UI just fine. As it turned out, what I was doing with Window Blinds in XP was trying to make it look like Vista, even though I didn't yet know what Vista looked like. ;)

XP - now THERE'S a hideous-looking OS. I don't do anything special to the Vista look, just Aero and a desaturated and dark purple, almost black, and it looks fine as far as I'm concerned. The way I see it it's what's going on, not really how it looks.

But Matt, we all know you love to customize the looks of things. I bet they frisk you for pens and markers and paint when you go to the art museums, don't they? Look at this hideous background in this Mona Lisa! Just needs a little touch up.... :D

dweinkauf
05-06-2009, 09:39 AM
What an OS looks like is meaningless to me. All I want are icons for my applications that I can select once the workstation is booted. I have no time for fancy graphics, bells, and whistles in the OS that are just a waste of time and resources. All I want is to be able to select the icon to Mirage, TV Paint, LW, VT5, my files, or whatever program I have to work with and start working. That's what I liked about upgrading my workstations to XP-pro and XP-64. After the upgrades, all I needed to do was plug in my old equipment (that won't work with Vista), turn on the machines, install software the dealer didn't have, create shortcuts to applications I use, and start working. Absolutely no problems with installation or anything else and there was no need to do any OS configuration. Worked for me!

warmiak
05-07-2009, 09:23 AM
XP - now THERE'S a hideous-looking OS.

What do you mean ?

There is nothing wrong with XP ... but the first thing I do on Windows is to switch it back to what I call a " Windows 95" look.

Mac OSX , Areo blah blah ... this stuff gets old fast and doesn't really bring anything new to the table...

Andrewstopheles
05-07-2009, 10:08 AM
My friend has 7 running in the next room and loves it.
Can one install 7 as an upgrade to vista and keep programs and settings?
Is 7 available in 64 bit version?
It'll have to be really solid before I'll replace Vista 64 with it. I'm only going to upgrade it once, when it's ready, I don't have time to test Windows.

Ember
05-07-2009, 10:16 AM
My friend has 7 running in the next room and loves it.
Can one install 7 as an upgrade to vista and keep programs and settings?
Is 7 available in 64 bit version?
It'll have to be really solid before I'll replace Vista 64 with it. I'm only going to upgrade it once, when it's ready, I don't have time to test Windows.

- Can one install 7 as an upgrade to Vista? Yes, but not with XP.
- Is 7 available in 64-bit version? Yes, running it currently.

And even the first public beta is rock solid. Haven't yet installed RC since it'll require complete reinstall (formatting) over beta. Oh well. :P

Matt
05-07-2009, 11:23 AM
But Matt, we all know you love to customize the looks of things. I bet they frisk you for pens and markers and paint when you go to the art museums, don't they? Look at this hideous background in this Mona Lisa! Just needs a little touch up.... :D

LOL, sounds about right! :D

jasonwestmas
05-07-2009, 11:37 AM
No, don't install it Matt, really what is the reason, vista works good. Unless of course you don't have enough toys to play with.

IMI
05-07-2009, 12:41 PM
What do you mean ?

There is nothing wrong with XP ... but the first thing I do on Windows is to switch it back to what I call a " Windows 95" look.


I just meant XP's "out of the box" look, right after first installing it. I hated that bubbly, icon-laden look of it the first time I saw it and the first thing I did after upgrading was to get it back to a Windows 98 look as much as possible... until I discovered Window Blinds.
On the other hand, I liked the look of Vista from the moment I first saw it, and haven't felt the need to spend any time customizing its appearance, aside from a few very minor things.



Mac OSX , Areo blah blah ... this stuff gets old fast and doesn't really bring anything new to the table...

Yeah, like neverko said above, Aero isn't only a "look", but also greatly improves its use with OpenGL apps.