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waelkf
08-20-2003, 01:55 AM
The subject tells it all.
What the future of aura?


Anybody knows?

Red_Oddity
08-20-2003, 02:22 AM
'Oooh...oooh...i know...i know....'

"well, do tell doctor fruitloop"



I got a friend working as a beta tester on it...(Got a spin on both OSX and PC version a couple of weeks ago...)
Oh, and it's back ot it's previous owner...the french company TVPaint, and it has been redubbed Mirage now:

http://tvpaint.fr/nouveaute.php3?viewnews=1060761683

Nothing to fear, development is going on (and maybe even better than at Newtek...no offence meant..)

TyVole
08-20-2003, 09:04 AM
They just posted a more-detailed feature list:

http://www.bauhaussoftware.com./products/features.htm

Among other things, "LightWave filter for painting on LW object unwrap maps"

waelkf
08-22-2003, 10:23 PM
Thanks to everyone who replyed.

so, Mirage is Aura, right?

what'll happen next, will it continou with aura or it will be Mirage forever?

Aegis
08-23-2003, 08:18 PM
Well, according to the guys at Bauhaus, Aura is officially dead - they said there might be some bug fixes (although based on the amount of development done on Aura whilst NewTek was distributing it this seems unlikely) so the future it seems is Mirage.

I'd like to know what's gonna happen re: the 'Toaster - I like Aura, in fact I've used it for years in preference to Photoshop and I'd like to use Mirage but I can't really afford to start investing in the upgrade cycle of another piece of software - I've got VT[3], LightWave and DFX+ to provide for - Mirage'll just have to pass me by and hopefully NewTek will come up with something to replace Aura in the 'Toaster bundle...

Shame really :(

Aegis
08-23-2003, 08:29 PM
The weird thing is NewTek's/TVPaint's recent press release which says:

NewTek will continue to include Aura Video Paint with the award-winning VT[3]™ and forthcoming VT[3]™ broadcast production suite. TVPaint will distribute the product in standalone form under new branding.

Which gives the impression that Aura VT will just be Mirage under a different name however Paul Ford at Bauhaus was pretty clear about their position:

Aside from bug fixes, you will not see any more development on the Aura VT code base. Mirage is a product of Bauhaus Software. It is effectively a new product that is far ahead of its earlier code base. We have no plans at this time to bundle or integrate with NewTek’s VT products. You will not get it for "free" ever.

Strange eh? :confused:

TyVole
08-23-2003, 09:00 PM
I think NewTek's statement simply means that they will continue to include Aura 2.5 with VT. It doesn't state that they will include future revisions of Aura.

Mirage looks nice, but without a demo, I don't think I'll bite.

GruvSyco
08-24-2003, 12:53 AM
I think I'm going to pass on Mirage as well. Not really sure what role it plays in my software arsenel anymore.

paulfierlinger
08-24-2003, 06:32 AM
It seems to me, that adopting the name Bauhaus for the publishing of Mirage is more appropriate than at first harrumph. The Bauhaus guys may be onto something if they do it right, which I feel, at this point, unwilling to claim. But Mirage, in the right hands, has the potential of becoming a movement, rather than a peg in a predrilled hole.

Graphics applications have so far functioned as a purveyor of technology, supporting the dilettante masses to ever more easily create sunsets on velvet canvases without having to take a trip to the gas stations (remember the 70s?). You want velvet? Here’s “AutoVelvet”, a truly unique plugin that allows you to create the real feel of black velvet. Or purple and green velvet, because this is cutting edge plugin technology!! Next version will enable you to render velvet with sunsets automatically attached – we are working on it now.

So now the complaints are popping up. How does Mirage compare with PS, AE and AutoVelvet? Give me a reason to make someone buy Mirage instead of the massively beloved AutoVelvet. Here is one techno-dilettante (me) who believes that the time is ripe to introduce software that will cater less and less to the plugin artists and more to the plain artist. There is so much mediocrity in this world already that the digital world just might be ready to support some originality for a change. The Bauhaus School was of that mindset in the 30’s until Hitler shut them down. Remember Hitler? He’s the guy who invented the Volks Wagon so everybody would drive the same car –

Don’t forget why D-Paint is memorialized with tears of fondness to this day: it nudged you into creating something unique. The Macs of the world are elitists in the best sense of the word. I salute elitism therefore I salute Mirage. I have a non-disclosure agreement with TVPaint as a Mirage beta-tester and I am going out on a limb a bit here, but so be it: the direction Mirage is taking is to fill the gap so glaringly evident in digital technology; the development of an application catering to serious artists. Mirage wants to be something new that will support these people’s unique need to create originals. I am in favor of elitism.

Paul Fierlinger

TyVole
08-24-2003, 08:27 AM
You have had the advantage of actually seeing the software. If there were a demo version for which the rest of us could look at, perhaps we would feel the same.

And by the way, some would say Hitler created the Volkswagen to make a car that everyone could afford, much like Henry Ford, another famous racist. If I'm not mistaken, Hitler and the other Nazi elite drove around in Mercedes.

paulfierlinger
08-24-2003, 09:06 AM
Yes, I have that advantage and that's why I felt that I should speak out. But as I suggested in my post, I don't like the way the pre-release has been handled. It would have been much more usefull to either wait with a pre-release, or to be upfront about the truth of the situation and say 'There is nothing to show in a GUI preview yet, because we need to spend more time with its design.' None of us have yet seen this "killer" design, which I think became pretty evident by not showing anything. I think it's a blunder politicians also make all the time.

As for the VW, you are, of course correct that Hitler did it so that everyone could afford a car -- I was a bit careless with my remark, but in essence what he did amounted to appeasing the masses with sameness and discourage the population from individualistic tendencies to better cultivate patriotic fervor. Fords motivations were purely financial.

I just hope this thread won't slide into a thread on Hitler.

Aegis
08-24-2003, 11:33 AM
Don't forget that DPaint was also extremely affordable and thus not just a plaything for the artistic elite - it was an everyman tool - simple, elegant and tremendously empowering (as indeed were many software products for the Amiga - LightWave 3.5 cost me £345 brand new RRP).

My annoyance at this point is that TVPaint and NewTek's announcement seemed to indicate continued development and support for Aura and I happen to be a big fan of all-in-one solutions - VT[3] provides me with a very respectable editing platform, LightWave 7.5 and of course Aura - very cost effective and I only have to upgrade one package about once a year.

It also bothers me that Aura's development has been slow to say the least whilst it was a NewTek published product - We've had 2 revisions of the Video Toaster and 3 revisions of LightWave in the time it took Aura to go from 1.0 to 2.5

I've used TVPaint since TVPaint Jr. came bundled with my Picasso II many years ago (still got the "hand-crafted" blue dongle for TVPaint 2 lying around somewhere). Since then I've used TVPaint 3.6, TVPaint Animation, Aura 1.0, Aura 2.0, Aura 2.5 and Aura DV. I have three separate copies of Aura including the one bundled with my VT and what does that get me? The same damn deal everybody else gets. I've seen slow development, no bug-fixes and now it seems no loyalty to previous customers. There's no demo, no trial version or beta for previous users who want to see where their cash is going.

As you can gather I'm somewhat bitter about the current situation and I resent having to buy into another product upgrade cycle just to get the features and updates that should have been in Aura years ago...

The way I use my 'Toaster means that Aura is quite an integral component and I can only hope that if development is ended that NewTek will find something better to replace it with.

paulfierlinger
08-24-2003, 12:01 PM
Andrew, I'm not in the position to argue with any of what you have said, all points taken -- just one clarification: D-Paint was more than a toy to some. I made at least 10 (but probably more) TV commercials and several Sesame Street films with D-Paint. It sure was cheap, even back then; I believe I paid $ 80 for it about 10 years ago. Would that make it the equivelant of $ 500 or $ 600 today?

But I don't see how you expect to get any software worth bothering with for under $ 900. I would consider Mirage a complete proffesional tool by its final release who-knows-when. How many paid jobs does it take to pay for that? To make animated films -- I mean on real film stock, I had to buy, piece by piece at least $ 250,000 worth of equipment. That took me years and years. While accumulating that, I had to pay others for services rendered to do things for me on their equipment. So you won't get too much sympathy from me about the cost of software -- or hardware.

-- Paul Fierlinger

Aegis
08-24-2003, 12:37 PM
So you won't get too much sympathy from me about the cost of software -- or hardware.

Nor was I looking for or expecting sympathy - I never stated cost was an issue - purely that I bought the Video Toaster as a complete solution - Editing, 3D, Paint - now I have to pay extra for upgrades to the paint program. Not what I signed up for and not what I want.

The point made about DPaint reflects the market at the time - My copy of DPaint 1 came free with the A500 I bought to use it on. The issue of availablity still stands though - pretty much everyone that had an Amiga had a copy of DPaint at some point and that was it's true power - digital art for the masses, much as the original Video Toaster brought desktop video to people who would never have been able to "do their own thing" before it arrived. Incidentally I think you misconstrued my point about DPaint - It was indeed a serious tool which why certainly part of the reason it captured people's imagination the way it did (I myself used it for all my work during an extended stint in the video games industry many moons ago...).

Im all in favour of empowering tools for artists but nobody could ever suggest that computer animation is cheap to get into - we pay more for our software and hardware than many people do for their cars.

This is more a rant about principles than anything else - My investment in Aura stand-alone is worthless - there's no special pricing for those that have supported TVPaint's products in the past (I suppose I could buy 5 pre-release copies of Mirage and sell 4 of 'em off...) and after years of waiting for some real innovation in Aura I'm gonna have to throw some cash at Bauhaus before I even know if it's really worth the moolah.

paulfierlinger
08-24-2003, 01:14 PM
I understand you now. I never got into Toasters and LW and such. For me, stand alone Aura was my principle tool. Now it's Mirage. Only second comes my NLE (DPS/Velocity) because I could still deliver what I do with a lesser NLE -- or even without an NLE altogether (although I wouldn't like that).

Aparrently their have been behind the scenes issues between NewTek and the TVPaint guys and I don't even want to know what that was all about, but we can both be pretty sure that that's what's behind your reasons for frustrations. Now TVP is starting a new chapter and I am extremely happy that they are, because for me, the opposite is the case. I see this as continuity, whereas you are experiencing repeated disillusionment.

I don't know what kind of work you do, so I wouldn't be able to make a judgement, but I'm itching to say that $ 300 now will set you up for another ride for another few years if nothing else will happen after that. But again, I agree that you have no way of verifying that for yourself.

It was murky business to be asked to by LPs without being allowed to hear what you were buying. I've paid hundreds of dollars buying what I didn't like -- both in music and software, before trial downloads were available.

-- Paul Fierlinger

Aegis
08-24-2003, 01:14 PM
Here's a little recap of what's been said about the Aura/Mirage situation by those involved:

NewTek, Inc., manufacturer of industry-leading 3D animation and video products, and TVPaint, Inc., developer of broadcast video paint production tools, today announced that they have reached a new agreement on the development and distribution of the broadcast video paint toolset that NewTek has distributed as Aura Video Paint™. NewTek will continue to include Aura Video Paint with the award-winning VT[3]™ and forthcoming VT[3]™ broadcast production suite. TVPaint will distribute the product in standalone form under new branding.

"We're very pleased to form this new alliance with TVPaint," said Jim Plant, President and Chief Executive Officer of NewTek, Inc.. "This will allow us to focus our marketing and development efforts on our state-of-the-art VT[3] broadcast production suite and our innovative and award-winning LightWave 3D® animation software, while still including a powerful video paint module with our video production products.

TVPaint will offer upgrades to new versions of the rebranded product to owners of NewTek's standalone Aura Video Paint package. TVPaint will also continue to work with NewTek to allow NewTek to provide enhancements to Aura Video Paint as an element of current and future video production suites. From time to time, NewTek and TVPaint will work together to provide a variety of special offers as well, including bundle offerings of the two companies' products. NewTek / TVPaint Press Release, 8th May 2003


It is great that you have Aura 2 in your VT. Its a great product. But, its as great as its going to get. Aside from bug fixes, you will not see any more development on the Aura VT code base. Mirage is a product of Bauhaus Software. It is effectively a new product that is far ahead of its earlier code base. We have no plans at this time to bundle or integrate with NewTek’s VT products. You will not get it for "free" ever. Paul Ford, Bauhaus Software Forums, 21st August 2003


NewTek is not 'dumping' Aura. NewTek retains Aura and will continue to include Aura with VT. While NewTek continues to bundle, TVPaint will pursue its own sales as a stand-alone product under this new name. Paul Lara, VideoToasterNT Forums, 23rd August 2003


My original question to Paul Ford was that if I purchased the Mirage Pre-Release now, would I be wasting my money when an "Aura" branded version is included with the 'Toaster at some point in the future - you can see from his reply that in his opinion, Aura development is history.

When I bought my VT[2] I bought it as much for Aura as I did LightWave and the 'Toaster hardware and software. I've already paid for a VT[3] upgrade and I'm painfully aware that the version of Aura included in that is the same as the one I'm running now. In such an integrated bundle I don't feel it's unfair to expect evolution in the video paint side of things as much as with the other components when I pay for upgrades and I'm certainly disinclined to pay Bauhaus for a Mirage upgrade when NewTek to all intents and purposes seem to be promising exactly that.

Admittedly, Paul Lara's comment is pretty vague and could just mean a continuance of 2.5 being bundled with the 'Toaster but for how long? Surely NewTek will not continue to enhance some parts of the package whilst others atrophy. Money for a worthwhile upgrade doesn't hurt but wasted money? That REALLY bugs me :D

Aegis
08-24-2003, 01:19 PM
Of note in the original press release is that upgrades are mentioned for "Stand-Alone Aura Users" which certainly give the impression that VT users could expect their own developments. Of course, with the current deal offered to Aura, LightWave and VT users that would seem to reinforce Paul Ford's comment that Aura is going nowhere fast :(

Aegis
08-24-2003, 01:37 PM
Another Video Toaster related issue that's been bugging me is the upgrade path for the bundled version of 7.5 - It's great that VT[3] users get a full version of 7.5 BUT at the moment there is no proposed upgrade path to LightWave [8] - I'm sure NewTek will announce some kind of deal but again, I pay £500 now for my VT[3] upgrade, £400 (maybe) for an upgrade to LightWave [8] and then when VT[4] ships (sometime in the far future ;)) will I be paying my £500 (or more) for a bundle including LightWave [8] again? Another wasted £400? For the situation to be fair, NewTek needs to look at release parity for the Toaster and it's other products (VT[4], Aura [3] & LightWave [9] maybe?) damn, those square brackets get... square after a while... :D

waelkf
08-25-2003, 11:23 PM
Just got this news today.

Bauhaus Mirage is currently available as a pre-release to existing customers of NewTek's Aura, Video Toaster (VT), and LightWave products. Upgrade pricing is set at $295 USD (for a limited time). The full product will be released to new and existing customers in October for $895 USD, and will be available on both Windows XP/2000 and Apple Macintosh OS/X operating systems.

does it mean the case was solved, and no questions will bugging us any more, who knows.

chao.


Thanx.

Wael Khalil.

jin choung
08-26-2003, 12:52 AM
yowza,

you cite mac and elitism (as well as mac's elitism) as good things...?! man oh man, you just lost me and unless i'm mistaken, a good deal of the people who appreciate newtek's blue collar, egalitarian philosophy - especially as it pertains to things like software pricing and lightwave in particular.

it is this kind of effete, 'elitist', affected, pretentious, cappucino swilling artist that is the nails on the chalkboard to regular folk the world over imo. at the very least, it's not something that i can stomach for long without reserving a vicious sneer for it.

well, i was gonna pass on mirage anyway because basically it looks pretty much exactly like aura 2, is advertising aura 2 featureset, and i'll bet that the scripting engine is none other than george.

given that is the case, it looks like it's just pasting on three of four thingamabobs like particles and such and all the 'great things' are things aura users already enjoy.

but all the weaknesses remain as well such as destructive application of effects and the inability to put affects onto the clips that load 'instantly'.

and if bauhaus is about affectation and elitism... the door has already hit my *** as i let myself out.

turtle necks and a 2003 volkswagon beetle does not an artist make.

ugh.

ugh!

i need to take a shower.

jin

p.s. it used to be that only the limp wristed upper crust had the leisure to pursue such matters as art and philosophy etc. but thankfully, we've come to a time where technology has put affordable tools in the hands of many. hooray for the fall (or falling rather - still a ways to go yet) of elitism.

jin choung
08-26-2003, 12:54 AM
btw,

i couldn't have even have imagined a 'good interpretation' of elitism!

jin

waelkf
08-26-2003, 01:12 AM
Is this related to the subject, what's your point?

Wael Khalil


Chao


Thanx

jin choung
08-26-2003, 01:32 AM
pay attention to the thread. it's a response to something that was written before.


jin

p.s. oh, it wasn't a response to you. the other guy who likes elitism....

prospector
02-22-2005, 12:28 AM
As you can see by the date, some time has passed and the VT4 is out so in refrence to this;

TVPaint will offer upgrades to new versions of the rebranded product to owners of NewTek's standalone Aura Video Paint package. TVPaint will also continue to work with NewTek to allow NewTek to provide enhancements to Aura Video Paint as an element of current and future video production suites. From time to time, NewTek and TVPaint will work together to provide a variety of special offers as well, including bundle offerings of the two companies' products. NewTek / TVPaint Press Release, 8th May 2003

Has anything happened in the ENHANCEMENTS area???

Aegis
02-22-2005, 02:59 AM
Nope, but thanks for digging up my old rant :p I'd just like to go on the record and say "I take it all back! Mirage ROCKS!!" :D

The lack of improvements to Aura still irks though... :rolleyes:

Oh, and paulfierlinger - You ROCK too! :D