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cresshead
04-30-2009, 02:52 PM
can anyone explain why most topics that arn't totally 3d or lightwave related here get pulled off to inward looking usa politics over and over again?

it's SO annoying to see decent threads de-railed into a mess of fractured conversations that has no place in the thread title whatsoever...why can't these stupid people make a political thread of their own...do they not know how to?:devil:

and yeah..i FULLY expect the first reply to BE about politics...which is sorta the whole point!

note i do not live in the usa and have no interest of knowledge about it...i'm not looking to be educated in the fine tangle of 2 party politics of the u.s.a...we have enough politics in the 3+ parties in the u.k. thanks very much!...

i don't bang on and on about british politics in threads as i'm aware that many would simply NOT understand it as they don't live in the u.k....so why do we get so much usa based political poop rammed down our throats here?

oh...do you like my 3d gordon brown sculpt below BTW [ohh POLITICS!!!]

dbigers
04-30-2009, 03:38 PM
Agreed. It is really difficult to extract any useful information because of the S/N ratio.

dbigers
04-30-2009, 03:40 PM
Oh and BTW, the first reply was not about politics. I like your Gordon Brown sculpt. :)

lwanmtr
04-30-2009, 03:49 PM
So, who would make a better president..Kang or Kodo?

Anyway, I agree...I dont care about politics...if I did, I would go to a site that was meant for that....These forums should be about 3d/video/fun...

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 04:19 PM
i dont care about politics either...even if im always involved in those discussions..

its just part of my personality to argue against anyone i consider is wrong...about any issue, actually.

meatycheesyboy
04-30-2009, 04:34 PM
These forums should be about 3d/video/fun...

Maybe you shouldn't have put that last in there. It's too broad. Alot of people consider talking about politics to be fun.

CGI Addict
04-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Way to Cresshead, you had to go start a thread on the politics of fun.

Is nothing sacred around here?

I vote for Kodo and don't even know who he/she is. Anyone care to explain.

lwanmtr
04-30-2009, 05:59 PM
Watch the Simpsons and you'll learn about Kodo and Kang...LOL

Philbert
04-30-2009, 06:18 PM
can anyone explain why most topics that arn't totally 3d or lightwave related here get pulled off to inward looking usa politics over and over again?

Yes we can!

IMI
04-30-2009, 06:57 PM
So, who would make a better president..Kang or Kodo?


"it doesn't matter which one of us you vote for, either way your planet is dooooomed!" :D

CGI Addict
04-30-2009, 09:30 PM
Dooooomed he says!

ted
04-30-2009, 09:39 PM
Throwing threads off topic is a sin! :agree: And you are right, it happens all the time on many threads.
But it's no wonder that when it does go to politics it falls mostly on US politics. The majority here are from the US. The numbers make sense.
I guess if you are not an American it takes you longer to figure it out. :D
Just kidding with ya.

Philbert
04-30-2009, 09:45 PM
Throwing threads off topic is a sin!

Ted! Did you know there's a conference (http://www.ted.com/) named after you?

CGI Addict
04-30-2009, 10:34 PM
Throwing threads off topic is a sin! :agree: And you are right, it happens all the time on many threads.
But it's no wonder that when it does go to politics it falls mostly on US politics. The majority here are from the US. The numbers make sense.
I guess if you are not an American it takes you longer to figure it out. :D
Just kidding with ya.

I guess if I were to frequent the Euro-NewTek site I'd probably find a ton of Euro-political threads over there? Probably . . . I'm going over there right now and find out. If I'm not back in ten minutes, give Chuck Norris a ring.

CGI Addict
04-30-2009, 10:44 PM
I'm back and sorry to say there's no talk of politics and anything else as there's no forum to be had on the other side of the pond.

IMI
05-01-2009, 12:23 AM
can anyone explain why most topics that arn't totally 3d or lightwave related here get pulled off to inward looking usa politics over and over again?



You were undoubtedly referring to the swine flu thread, since you linked to this thread from that one. Well, of course something like that is going to get political, and fairly quickly. Otherwise, what else is there to be said about it?
"Gee, that swine flu sure is a shame, isn't it?"
"Yep, sure is."
"I agree, a real shame."
"Yep, it's just too bad."

Now if this were a forum for microbiologists, virologists and pathologists, there would probably be more technical discussion and less politics, but even there I bet it would eventually get political.

As for why it's US-centric, well, for one, Mexico is a big player in this one and the affairs and conditions of and in Mexico affect the US to a considerable extent. And anything that negatively affects the US, affects the rest of the world too.

Of course, the very nature of such an incident immediately brings up all kinds of social issues, and has a strong government involvement in it.

So there you go, if you were really wondering. I suspect though what you really wanted was to vent and complain about it. :D

As for why do other topics go political? Well, they don't always, but this forum is populated probably almost entirely by artists in one capacity or another, and artists often tend to have strong political views.

akademus
05-01-2009, 02:35 AM
The thing I still don't get is why political/religious discussions are alowed on NT forums even when it's against forum moderation policy.

Is it deliberate to make the forums look more busy or is it matter of poor moderation (sorry)???

I'm regularly visiting couple of other CG and LW forums and I'm never seeing people discussing (and fighting as well) about stuff I see here. Even when someone goes off the tracks, mods are quick to delete problematic posts and issue a warning. If the one continues, it gets banned fairly quickly and for good.

As an example here is the link to a thread at CGTalk (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=121&t=755106&page=7&pp=15) which went off track due to some fascistic references in the artwork.

Response from admin was quick and simple:
"Any more posts involving politics and I will have to start banning people. First and last warning."

I do understand of course these forums are NT owned and it is their decisions, but I think they are very polluted with unnecessary things that only contribute to making a bad image about NT and their products, therefore resulting in shrinking the amount of people visiting the forums and eventually lowering the sales of the products.

It is greater harm than good having people fighting on these forums about every current world issue than discussing how to improve products of Newtek.

Thanks

cresshead
05-01-2009, 05:04 AM
re the swine flu thread there are plenty of things to discuss without any need to go to politics..if your so narrow minded that you think everything is related to politics then say in the thread..

"what we really need to talk about is this politicical angle and hey look i've created a thread for it HERE>>"

...'if' people agree they'll go and chat in YOUR related thread and not polute a thread that is non political in it's title message.

i believe people 'go political' within a non related thread cos they know it wouldn't stand a chance [no actual interest]on it's own thread..your just scared of failing and want to bandwagon a political argument within a interesting subject, in effect your politics are using threads as a "host thread"

an analogy that would fit well would be a cuckoo baby bird in growing up in a nest of other birds.. where it gets rid of the origional birds eggs/babies [killing the origional subject matter] and replaces it with it's own selfish needs of being fed.

in effect it's a parasite.

IMI
05-01-2009, 05:20 AM
Well... whatever you say, cresshead...

Although, to bring back the subject, i.e., how the swine flu thread went political, consider these two points:

#1. First line in the thread, from the OP:


Swine flu ? Goverment conspiracy to cut human numbers down ,or the end of the world . . . . . . . . . .


"Government" being the third word. Yeah, he didn't mean it literally - at least I don't think he did, but nevertheless, from that point on it was *almost* destined to go down the political path.

What ensured that would be its ultimate direction, however, was the first sentence of the first reply. Ironically, that reply was yours:



actually money can save you from this...if your in a decent country that has good stocks of anti virals such as the u.k. then it's not going to be much of a problem...


So... we start out with a joke about government conspiracy and then you invoke money and "decent countries".

And then later you act all surprised about where it went. *shrug*

cresshead
05-01-2009, 05:51 AM
that just proves my point..some SEE politics in everything anyone writes...

like i said if you believe it's really all about politics make your own swine flu political angled thread and don't try and mutate a thread about world health into one about insular usa car/bank politics within a world health related thread..if you have a good angle that's based upon politics then i'm sure you'll get people replying..don't be frightened of failure.

now...how a particular government is dealing with the flu crisis is totally different to how the demorcrats are/would be better for solving the usa bank debt or usa car manufacture...where's the FLU and world health in that?...that's what peeves me about replies...they go totally off tanglent with not a single mention about the thread subject just the vaugest of tangable links and they're off on the internal usa political soap box talking poo to people who just don't want to read it..

try quoting me all the times i mentioned gordon brown, the labor party, the lib dems, the conservatives, british political government tactics, david cameron and how voting for the BNP, the green party, the monster raving luny party is related to swine flu via car manufacture or the banking system in london...

-political parasite-

akademus
05-01-2009, 06:24 AM
I started a thread about that not too long ago. It went nowhere, of course. But you contributed to it, so you know the story :)

Yeah, sadly. I believe that firm moderation and couple of warnings and harsher measures could get us rid of all unnecessary rambling that goes around these forums and finally start having some normal CG related discussions.

cresshead
05-01-2009, 06:40 AM
Yeah, sadly. I believe that firm moderation and couple of warnings and harsher measures could get us rid of all unnecessary rambling that goes around these forums and finally start having some normal CG related discussions.

i think there is a place for non lightwave subjects in regards to the users being "people"

we do have users from all around the world so when something like the possible pandemic...many people from around the world who happen to know each other from these forums via lightwave do want to talk to one and other in regards to the situation...titus raised a point about him coming to france from mexico but has since been told his flight has been canceled by the french due to the flu outbreak in mexico

so i do feel there's room for off topic threads as long as they are outwardly known to be off topic and do not stray into areas banned by
newtek

my concern is that some good conversations will be locked due to the few people who want to derail the threads by mutating the subject always over to their own political ideals no matter what the actual subject is.

Medi8or
05-01-2009, 06:57 AM
The thing I still don't get is why political/religious discussions are alowed on NT forums...I think people like to whine and complain. Newtek probably knows we would complain more about Lightwave if we weren't too busy complaining about everything else.. ;)

OnlineRender
05-01-2009, 07:14 AM
were all artists here "well most of us " i wouldnt expect anything less :) we like to state our opinions about anything , we all have strong values on most issues , i like to hear other peoples perspective on life and surrounding factors ,its interesting to listen to you all ,even if some people are narrowed minded and have there set ways , i reckon if we put more effort into real posts " you know the ones about LW " we could make an excellent forum .

here are the rules on my personal forum

no bumping your own posts ,
General means general related subject IE CGI
No politics or religion full stop
there limited to 1 thread per section ,
Also mines auto refreshes every 5 minutes " i dont think NT site does that or i havent noticed at least !"

away to WIP section maybe i can help someone rather than cloggin up the search facilitly :)

jburford
05-01-2009, 07:31 AM
I seriously believe all of the posts on Politics and Religion have Nothing to do anywhere on This Board. The bashing and bashing and nasty comments go against the thought of a "community" and destroy the mood here. (and yes, I have been caught up in some from time to time)

If you want to talk about those topics, go offline with messages to each other or go find another forum to discuss those topics as We do not want to hear or have it shoved down our throats!

perhaps there is no forum @ the NT Europe Site, however some other ones are easy to find such as . . .... http://www.rendering.de/forum/viewforum.php?f=1

and you would have a damn hard time to find politics or such topics there.....

Lightwolf
05-01-2009, 07:37 AM
that just proves my point..some SEE politics in everything anyone writes...
Well, what do you expect:

Politics is the process by which groups of people make decisions.
Cheers,
Mike

akademus
05-01-2009, 07:41 AM
i think there is a place for non lightwave subjects in regards to the users being "people"

we do have users from all around the world so when something like the possible pandemic...many people from around the world who happen to know each other from these forums via lightwave do want to talk to one and other in regards to the situation...titus raised a point about him coming to france from mexico but has since been told his flight has been canceled by the french due to the flu outbreak in mexico

so i do feel there's room for off topic threads as long as they are outwardly known to be off topic and do not stray into areas banned by
newtek

my concern is that some good conversations will be locked due to the few people who want to derail the threads by mutating the subject always over to their own political ideals no matter what the actual subject is.

That stands. But on the other hand there is a plenty of forums on every possible subjects everywhere on the internet where you can discuss whatever you want.

You have a good point about some people here who are "mutating" threads into their own political and/or religious beliefs. And too many conversations where ruined by such. And I think anyone doing that should be recognized and penalized for doing such as they only ruin the overall atmosphere on these forums. I have seen people on the other forums avoiding these ones just because they don't want to be involved in fights.

I stated this point before, but I'll say it again. As long as you are engaged in fighting with someone you'll probably miss some useful information, technique, you'll fail to help someone else with good advice from your own experience. Because of that, forum is failing to serve it's purpose!

IMI
05-01-2009, 07:58 AM
my concern is that some good conversations will be locked due to the few people who want to derail the threads by mutating the subject always over to their own political ideals no matter what the actual subject is.

So, do something about it if you don't like it. Go cry to somebody, report the posts, anything. I really don't care.

It's clear that THIS thread was created simply because you wanted to let everyone know how you feel about it. Maybe you were also hoping for an argument, maybe you were hoping for a cheerleading squad to show up and back you up.
Threads go off topic. Who knows why, maybe we're all a-holes or something. Show me a forum where that doesn't happen, and I'll show you a forum with little activity or over-zealous mods.
But your real issue isn't with us, it's with the moderation here. So as I said, go tell it to them. Bringing it up in public like this is only going to get you the exact reaction that you got from me. The reaction and confrontation you wanted, to be specific.

But again, things are tied together. Unless you have very linear thinking, it doesn't take much to go from government involvement in a pandemic to government involvement in anything else, including banking.

But you're also trying to tell people how to conduct themselves in a thread? So who appointed you Forum Topic Integrity Guardian? And in that I mean your suggestion people should say, "Hey I'm starting an OT political version of this now and here's the link..." That's just silly.

Maybe you were brought up where you got your wrist slapped the moment you changed the subject, but most people weren't, and non-linear conversations are a pretty typical aspect of life even when it does stray into areas you feel uncomfortable in.

Having said that, what did you contribute to the swine flu thread? Links to statistics and speculation and worrying. Virtually everything you wrote would almost naturally lead towards a political discussion, and when it happens, you get all offended, then try to take charge of the situation by making it worse, where most people would either join in or ignore it. The thread did not progress according to your liking, and I gather that happens alot. Boo-hoo. As I said, go tell it to someone in the position to do something about it. Because honestly, this forum doesn't exist for the purpose of keeping you happy, and people are not going to refrain from following a discussion's natural course just because cresshead doesn't like it.

This is reality. Embrace it, fight it, ignore it or try to change it. I wish you good luck in however you choose to go about it. :)

akademus
05-01-2009, 08:06 AM
Threads go off topic. Who knows why, maybe we're all a-holes or something. Show me a forum where that doesn't happen, and I'll show you a forum with little activity or over-zealous mods.



Go to CGTalk. Go to ZBrushCentral. Go to Spinquad. You wont find people fighting over nazis or swine flu or whatever, yet they are high frequency CG related normally functioning forums.

IMI
05-01-2009, 08:09 AM
Go to CGTalk. Go to ZBrushCentral. Go to Spinquad. You wont find people fighting over nazis or swine flu or whatever, yet they are high frequency CG related normally functioning forums.

Well, believe it or not, even I go to forums where I never stray off topic.
I think what we have here, silly as it may seem, is a genuine *community* acting as a community, not just a group of people with a common interest who have no interest in discussing anything else.

Then again, as I mentioned above, maybe we're just a-holes here. ;)

akademus
05-01-2009, 08:11 AM
Or we come here when we want to be ones :)

DiedonD
05-01-2009, 09:49 AM
I think what Cress is trying to say is that, its not that he doesnt likes threads that are off topic. Threads that have nothing related to CG whatsoever (Though since one might see politics in anything, there could also be one that sees CG in everything!)

But the issue, to be precize is hijacking an already Off topic thread in the first place!

So theres a straight, linear, 100% CG thread. And it gets boring and someone hijacks it. Rightyo. No problem!

But hijacking an already interesting Off Topic threads is what his 'Off topic, off topic?' actually means!

So in other words, Cress sounds to me that he is a YES for politics and religion, but not when say a Religious topic is already set there, but it gets hijacked to a political one for instance!

BTW, only those who realistically are in some quite DEEP SH1T, in an AWFUL political position in the FIRST place, would they naturally not want politics to be here! And of course those are A-holes of a special type, and of a minority here, and shouldnt be taken seriously!

Me?

Im ok as it is, and would be alright too if an off topic thread doesnt gets hijacked aswell!

Theres no proof that either would stop these places from beeing fun!

blacksmith
05-01-2009, 10:24 AM
It is EXTREMELY LOGICAL for me not to have politics, religion or other non computer graphic related controversial talks on a graphic and product related forums like these.

It aint nothing but bad publicity for Newtek.

As a matter of fact I'm making a poll just to see what people thinks about it.

Lightwolf
05-01-2009, 10:30 AM
It is EXTREMELY LOGICAL for me not to have politics, religion or other non computer graphic related controversial talks on a graphic and product related forums like these.
Would computer graphic related controversial talks be allright then?
Or to phrase it differently, what's the real issue? The topic or the controversy?

Cheers,
Mike

blacksmith
05-01-2009, 10:45 AM
Would computer graphic related controversial talks be allright then?
Or to phrase it differently, what's the real issue? The topic or the controversy?

Cheers,
Mike

Probably yes, unless they turn into flame wars about 3D apps.

Lightwolf
05-01-2009, 10:47 AM
Probably yes, unless they turn into flame wars about 3D apps.
Well, that rules out closing a thread like the one on CGTalk then (as an example, and by looking at the last few posts that are still there).

Ah, so it can be controversial... but not about apps either. Anything else or does that cover it? Is sexism o.k.? :question:

Cheers,
Mike

blacksmith
05-01-2009, 10:53 AM
Well, that rules out closing a thread like the one on CGTalk then (as an example, and by looking at the last few posts that are still there).

Ah, so it can be controversial... but not about apps either. Anything else or does that cover it? Is sexism o.k.? :question:

Cheers,
Mike

Well, we know how threads about apps end like.

I think it's pretty clear what forums like these are for. Simple comparison akademus did between other forums like CGTalk or Zbrush Central can give you all the answers what is appropriate and whats not on a forum like this.

akademus
05-01-2009, 11:13 AM
I think of it this way.
Remember when you were starting in 3D, or when forums started to form, whichever comes first? Now, I think we all learn a great deal from forums as well from some other sources.

Now, imagine you are just starting in Lightwave or you are considering getting into it. You go and inform yourself about it, you find out about Flay, Spinquad, LWGroup bla bla and eventually NT forums as a mother forum for Lightwave.

Now, you've been on Spinquad and seen people discussing techniques, new movies that got out, resources... a lot of useful information.

Then, you stroll into General Discussions in Newtek forums. You see something about something you saw on news this morning and you think, what the h+ll, let me say what I think. All of the sudden, you've been called names, tried to be proven wrong, quoted endlessly. All in all, an ugly experience for anyone, not just a newbie.

So you say for yourself, these guys on NT are bunch of pricks, I aint going to learn nothing fighting with them, proving who's wrong and who is not, and you leave NT forums for good.

So one by one, people are starting avoiding these forums as they have better things to do than fight.

And by loosing members, sometimes really good ones, ones that write tutorials, discover techniques, bring the new members in, community looses on the long run. And it eventually shuts down.

Nothing good in it.

And Blacksmith is right, no logic in having things that only causes damage to community.

prospector
05-01-2009, 11:20 AM
it's SO annoying to see decent threads de-railed into a mess of fractured conversations that has no place in the thread title whatsoever.

Totally agree :thumbsup:

So Why are non Newtek related items showing up on the boards?
If I want to see what Modo..XSI...Max is doing..they have their own websites.
Lets keep all mention of them off this site.

We have the VT...AE has a website, Sony has a website.

Lets keep all mention of them off these threads.

Aura paints single frames OR video...Photoshop speak should be gone.


So yea, we should have a nothing but Newtek discussion site..frankly I am tired about hearing what other programs have or do.


Yea....that's the ticket
:devil:

IMI
05-01-2009, 11:29 AM
Well, we know how threads about apps end like.

I think it's pretty clear what forums like these are for. Simple comparison akademus did between other forums like CGTalk or Zbrush Central can give you all the answers what is appropriate and whats not on a forum like this.

Wouldn't it be safe to say that what's "appropriate" is an opinion?
Personally I like this place because it's free and loose. CG Talk is boring, and, IMO, suffers from a severe lack of personality. Not to mention, people have to live in fear of upsetting the almighty...what's-her-name there, the "heavy metal is the law" chick. Heavy metal is the law....pppphhhttthhh sounds like something some 15 year old junior high school kid would scribble on a book cover. :rolleyes:

But I digresss....

Is it appropriate to have a discussion of swine flu on a Lghtwave forum? I didn't see any complaints about that, but it got complaints once it went political.
Of course, it *started out* political, but that's just an inconvenient truth. ;)

But if you just want static, pure LW advice and discussions, well, this is only one of many forums here on this site, not to mention there are several other LW forums out there.

cresshead
05-01-2009, 11:45 AM
i don't mind political threads, if they start out as such as i'd just not read them unless it was say talking about uk politics..i'm really not interested in russian politics, the politics of tuvalu islands or the usa for that matter.

i could use the ignore list feature more but some of the posters who 'go political' also have some good views on lightwave so i'd hope they'd just "do the right thing" and either not derail a thread or make a new thread that is political so people didn't have to skip thru pages of "tut" [alan sugar saying] trying to follow a threads actual on topic content.

some simply can't even percieve how insanly boring it is to have a continous stream of political diarrhea written about banks, car firms and usa politics in a bar room soapbox style bleeting, blathering and yawn inducing dirge. :D

[read that out in a basil fawlty voice btw..]

Lightwolf
05-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Of course, it *started out* political, but that's just an inconvenient truth. ;)
So did this one... and we're discussing nothing but politics here - and I don't see anybody complaining here about this thread.

Sometimes I just wonder if I've been around way too long...

Cheers,
Mike

ted
05-01-2009, 11:50 AM
Ted! Did you know there's a conference (http://www.ted.com/) named after you?

As a matter of fact I did. My GFX guy pointed it out to me a couple months ago.
I remember when there was an editor made by NewTek named after me! :D

adamredwoods
05-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Forums that tend to skew off topic are usually because there is a COMMUNITY here, rather than people who pass through, looking for technical know-how.

Strange how NewTek has this community. Do any other software forums have that same effect?

jasonwestmas
05-01-2009, 12:10 PM
Agreed, it does make sense not to de-rail from a subject Cresshead.

lwaddict
05-01-2009, 03:20 PM
Trick is to accept that if you're reading and replying to the type of thread that you most complain about...well...I don't know what to tell you.

"Community" is the key.
I've got 3d buds offline and we don't just yammer about software all day...
but when we need each other's help on something 3d, BAM.
"Community" breeds "Loyality" breeds "Willingness to help others in the Community".
Why would I waste my time adding to a dictionary of answers?
Why would I waste my time helping those in my community?
Ah...two different questions huh?

IMI
05-01-2009, 08:31 PM
Trick is to accept that if you're reading and replying to the type of thread that you most complain about...well...I don't know what to tell you.

"Community" is the key.
I've got 3d buds offline and we don't just yammer about software all day...
but when we need each other's help on something 3d, BAM.
"Community" breeds "Loyality" breeds "Willingness to help others in the Community".
Why would I waste my time adding to a dictionary of answers?
Why would I waste my time helping those in my community?
Ah...two different questions huh?

Yeah, that's right.
If I happen to read a LW (or 3D in general, or a technical computer ) question I know the answer to and nobody has yet replied or has answered the question only partially, I don't care if the person asking is a left wing commie pinko liberal or a raging Limbaugh Dittohead, I'll answer it to the best of my ability.

Because, after all, we're all here primarily because we use and enjoy LW. Anything else that goes on is just people interacting in the way that people tend to interact, and attempting to alienate those who are more predisposed than others to "go political" from time to time is just silly.

I really believe you lose an integral and vital part of what "community" means when you start telling people what they can and can't discuss, within reason, of course.

And that's what this is, after all, a community, not just a stagnated help desk, take-a-number, get-a-support ticket, and someone will be with you shortly type-of-place.

lwaddict
05-01-2009, 11:21 PM
Exactly.

I don't care if we disagree about anything or even everything else under the sun... variables in anything is what keeps life interesting.

When push comes to shove...
I get the answers to my questions
and try my best to help when I can.

I think most here do, it's why I come back.

DiedonD
05-02-2009, 03:38 AM
It also happens that LW has joined some of best people I never knew existed in one single forum! The ethos here man... Are such a marvelous thing!

One can speak of everything here, asked interesting questions about, further evolve from there, and get the conversation into a knew unknown subject that was related before but now has becomed in a different shape and still is interesting! Freedom to share and speak is the key!

Sometimes think that we are using LW as a pretext just to hang around and have fun :)

sampei
05-02-2009, 06:15 AM
one thing that's been bugging me for awhile...I never seen any mods around the these forums and that's just wierd to me. I mean there must be some mods right, maybe they never post ? That would be even wierder !
:confused:

DiedonD
05-02-2009, 06:20 AM
They are always watching us from above!

Should someone get uncivilized and personally attack another one, youd see them right then!

Its then and when opening up threads about latest publications that mostly show up!

And to keep matters proffesional, I think thats how it should be!

sampei
05-02-2009, 06:53 AM
well on other forums an important task of mods is to kill off-topics right at the start before they evolve in actual discussions. Also I don't mind mods taking part to discussions, I don't see how that would be negative..
that said I think this forum is pretty good and the community seems very solid, but the galleries don't get enough comments/visits which I imagine can get quite frustrating and lead people to abandon the forum since they get very little and sometimes no feedback.

IMI
05-02-2009, 06:57 AM
one thing that's been bugging me for awhile...I never seen any mods around the these forums and that's just wierd to me. I mean there must be some mods right, maybe they never post ? That would be even wierder !
:confused:

They do post, occasionally. BeeVee posts alot, and not always just LW-related stuff. Chilton used to hang out, down in the trenches with the peeps, but he's not with NT anymore. William "Proton" Vaughn still posts from time to time, though he used to post ALOT more than he does now.

There have been a few occasions of the mods closing threads, and making comments in a thread about someone's conduct, but that's rare. Chuck posts occasionally, as does Jay Roth. From what I gather, all the mods here are NT employees, and only NT employees - no outsiders.

They're not entirely absent, they just pretty much let us do our thing until they see a need to get involved, whether it be to warn someone, or answer questions or make announcements, for the most part.

sampei
05-02-2009, 07:01 AM
ok, thanks for the explanation.

SBowie
05-03-2009, 07:37 AM
Aura paints single frames OR video...Photoshop speak should be gone.(Note: quoted not to single this one post out, but to use it as representative of one point of view). I have no problem when a thread in an 'application oriented' forum touches on comparative techniques, what the competition is doing, and so on. It's in the spirit of 'community' to discuss these things as relevant. Subversive 'shill' tactics are over the line, imho though. They show a lack of respect for both the community and the forum hosts. (We are all fellow guest here, and should behave as such - don't like the house rules, the reasonable thing would be to leave.)

I also think that despite stated policy, sub-forums that discuss art inevitably do involve things like religion, politics, philosophy, science, etc., from time to time - inasmuch as they are legitimate fields both of artistic endeavour, and also bear on funding, distribution, etc. Probably such tangents have no place in sub-forums dealing with tools and techniques ... but when it comes to a 'gallery' or 'community' they are more relevant.

I do think that policies on "Non-constructive criticism of a malicious nature", "Personal attacks" and "Promotional messages and material for competing products" should be rigorously but judiciously enforced, and that perhaps topics that stray too egregiously from sub-forum relevance should be moved to an "OT" sub-forum for topics.

A forum where no constructive criticism or OT rambling at all was permitted would be pretty sterile; but an overly permissive approach produces an unnavigable and aggravating morass of verbal bullying, childish name-calling, and threads that are OT to the point of being useless repetitions of political slogans and ranting where newbies fear to tread and experienced pros weary of a signal to noise ration that leans too heavily to the juvenile.

Achieving a good balance is by no means simple, and will not please everyone. It takes the regular attention of mature, patient and reasonable moderators who take pains not to be heavy-handed but know when enough is enough. A little more moderation here (rather than less) would not be a bad thing imho, and I'm glad we've seen some movement in that direction of late. I'd not like to see it overdone, though.

blacksmith
05-05-2009, 06:53 AM
A forum where no constructive criticism or OT rambling at all was permitted would be pretty sterile; but an overly permissive approach produces an unnavigable and aggravating morass of verbal bullying, childish name-calling, and threads that are OT to the point of being useless repetitions of political slogans and ranting where newbies fear to tread and experienced pros weary of a signal to noise ration that leans too heavily to the juvenile.

Achieving a good balance is by no means simple, and will not please everyone. It takes the regular attention of mature, patient and reasonable moderators who take pains not to be heavy-handed but know when enough is enough. A little more moderation here (rather than less) would not be a bad thing imho, and I'm glad we've seen some movement in that direction of late. I'd not like to see it overdone, though.

I agree with you totally. I'm glad to see there is less and less non-constructive babbling about political and religious and sometimes personal issues and people turn more and more to talking about more cheerful subjects and things that are more related to the work we do and most of us live from instead of trying to turn threads in their desired directions.

Progress seems slow but notable.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 07:29 AM
A little moderating, when obviously needed, is appropriate anywhere...
here...
at work...
in your home...
etc...

So long as it's tempered with patience and some experience.

A thread like this is what it is and can probably just be left to wander where it may go...
but a thread that starts about say....oh...hair and fur on a 3d object that gets hijacked...that's when boards go wrong.

Maybe an off topic area like so many other sites have setup?
That way the users know what they're stepping into when they go there?

cresshead
05-05-2009, 09:08 AM
A little moderating, when obviously needed, is appropriate anywhere...
here...
at work...
in your home...
etc...

So long as it's tempered with patience and some experience.

A thread like this is what it is and can probably just be left to wander where it may go...
but a thread that starts about say....oh...hair and fur on a 3d object that gets hijacked...that's when boards go wrong.

Maybe an off topic area like so many other sites have setup?
That way the users know what they're stepping into when they go there?

yeah the max web board waay back in max 4 days used to have a "Take 5" forum just for off topic posts and general chit chat...the area doesn't btw.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 11:28 AM
"General Discussion" isn't vague enough for ya?

:hey: