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OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 11:41 AM
Swine flu ? Goverment conspiracy to cut human numbers down ,or the end of the world . . . . . . . . . .

yet another victim , and money cant save you from this , its spreading fast , faster than people care to take notice , also the vacination will not be produced for another 7 months , hmmm the human race is going to get wiped out by some sort of virus , is this it ?

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:11 PM
actually money can save you from this...if your in a decent country that has good stocks of anti virals such as the u.k. then it's not going to be much of a problem..if it surfaces in india though where there's less than 1% of antivirals for their population then they maybe in BIG trouble as their hospitals will not be able to cope an they may spread it out of control across the world....so keep an eye on india, malaysia, pakistan, kenya, uganda etc where their antivirals are VERY low.

as soon as it spreads to 3rd world...'the world' would be in trouble...also note that there's been NO death's outside of Mexico as of today which has only CONFIRMED 7 deaths to swine flu...there number of 150 deaths is correct but only 7 are attribruted to swine flu 100% so far..w.h.o. are still getting firm data on the other deaths.

Larry_g1s
04-28-2009, 12:21 PM
You know this is very interesting times we're living in. I will pray this is not a major ordeal. There was a flu that went around in 1918 that wiped out hundreds of thousands of people. I don't know if this will turn to that or not, I pray not. I don't like however, how our current administration is responding to it, very slow to respond. I'm not saying to over react, but they haven't even shut down/slow down boarders, and it's like they're afraid to mention that it came from Mexico. It's nothing against Mexicians, heck...look at my last name. It's about not being soo PC that you're unable to protect the country you've sworn to protect.

The other thing is, the Bible has much to talk about in the last days. One of them is pestilence. That word (pestilence) is talking about deadly infectious decease (Mathew 24:7). Now we've always had some type of deadly infectious disease, but what the Bible describes is increasing number & frequencies. Anyone remember the bird flu concern not to long back?

So interesting & concerning...

gerry_g
04-28-2009, 12:21 PM
.if your in a decent country that has good stocks of anti virals such as the u.k

Stanwich Northamptonshire UK where a businessman and his family are currently quarantined after he returned from Mexico with a fever is around ten miles from me tops. You'd better be right Cress cos right now I'm sneezing and sniffing and got a bit of a headache, of course I could all just be a mixture of hypochondria and a common head cold.......... but then again

gordonrobb
04-28-2009, 12:26 PM
We have two 'confirmed' cases in a Hospital about 20 miles from me. Kinda makes it all a little too real. Be well Jerry_g

Titus
04-28-2009, 12:27 PM
All movie theaters, schools and restaurants are closed now, so no Wolverine for the moment.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:32 PM
if your into praying to solve stuff..do it in your own home and not in a church full of potential flu carriers:thumbsup:

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:33 PM
All movie theaters, schools and restaurants are closed now, so no Wolverine for the moment.

DUDE...take care...get some of that anti viral stuff ready at hand..or go on a holiday...'anywhere'!

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:35 PM
history>>

FLU PANDEMICS

* 1918: The Spanish flu pandemic remains the most devastating outbreak of modern times - infecting up to 40% of the world's population and killing more than 50m people, with young adults particularly badly affected


* 1957: Asian flu killed two million people. Caused by a human form of the virus, H2N2, combining with a mutated strain found in wild ducks. The elderly were particularly vulnerable


* 1968: An outbreak first detected in Hong Kong, and caused by a strain known as H3N2, killed up to one million people globally, with those over 65 most likely to die


of course nowdays global travel is common place...which isn't good...eeek!

Liber777
04-28-2009, 12:37 PM
There are a few confirmed cases at a school here in New York City; some kids just returned from Mexico over spring break. The cases have been mild, however.

Titus
04-28-2009, 12:38 PM
I already have flu, just hope to not infect my kids and recover before may because I'm going to Cannes.

Mike_RB
04-28-2009, 12:39 PM
I think the Trailer for 'District 9' is airing in front of Wolverine. So thats good.

Hopper
04-28-2009, 12:41 PM
Yes.. but that's before we had these! Go anywhere, fear free!

It's the fuill body condom!

http://www.guitar.com/uploaded/profile_images/forum_e3cf272e_Body%20condom.jpg

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:42 PM
cheer yourselves up and go watch a dvd...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516D1ckLZaL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IjY7ax0LL._AA240_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X9M588HRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

or sharpen up those 'scouting' skills for future use

OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 12:43 PM
i dont think most people understand the mass implications of this " but said earlier , your right if this hits third world countries , it will spread faster than the rate of control , for example africa is already suffering with HIV and aids , this is viral , it passes threw the air , gordonrob ye its about 20 miles from me aswell , but what if the couple had went to there local asda for there weekly shoping , or they went to football match , or whatever .
my kids are terrible ill at the moment showing signs of flu / viral infection , ok theres very little chance of being the swine strain , but what if my kid went to nursery with another kid , whos mum and dad are just back from a long trip sitting on a plane with circulated air flow , . . .

the death rate will be low ,in the UK only because of the advances in medicine , but what about others ,,,, hmmmm the end is near

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:43 PM
I already have flu, just hope to not infect my kids and recover before may because I'm going to Cannes.

take care...and you may find flights are cancelled...we already have flights being cancelled going to mexico from the u.k.

Hopper
04-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Sounds like it's time to get into the spirit of things... anyone for a few rounds of Left 4 Dead? :D

Titus
04-28-2009, 12:49 PM
take care...and you may find flights are cancelled...we already have flights being cancelled going to mexico from the u.k.

Well, I bought my tickets yesterday. WHO doesn't recomend close borders or flights, we're not yet in a pandemic.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 12:49 PM
my kids are terrible ill at the moment showing signs of flu / viral infection , ok theres very little chance of being the swine strain , but what if my kid went to nursery with another kid , whos mum and dad are just back from a long trip sitting on a plane with circulated air flow , . . .

the death rate will be low ,in the UK only because of the advances in medicine , but what about others ,,,, hmmmm the end is near

so you've phoned nhs 24 and have anti virals working yes?

also noticed the disguarding of flight info on those planes coming back from mexico..they literally DO NOT KNOW who was onboard with the infected passengers...

if we see this hit a 3rd world country...like a british person taking a flight to pakistan or india and starting it spreading into a county that can't cope..then this will become an pandemic..and a realy bad one


i reckon the govt's are 'letting this run' to some degree which i find baffling to understand.

Titus
04-28-2009, 12:50 PM
Sounds like it's time to get into the spirit of things... anyone for a few rounds of Left 4 Dead? :D

oh please! I'm starting steam.

OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 12:52 PM
sorry i would get into the swing and play , but my kids spewing everywhere atm , and im trying to render out :) plus its champions league night

plus im more a peggle fan :)

Titus
04-28-2009, 12:54 PM
my kids are terrible ill at the moment showing signs of flu / viral infection , ok theres very little chance of being the swine strain , but what if my kid went to nursery with another kid , whos mum and dad are just back from a long trip sitting on a plane with circulated air flow , . . .

Please don't be paranoic and calm down. Your kids are gonna be OK.

OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 12:56 PM
ye my kids will be ok , we have a great "ok shabby NHS " but its there , unlike most , i feel for those people that step into a hospital and they get hit with a $300 BILL ,and thats before theve even seen a doctor . . ps kids mega sick , just spewed all over pc power supply " great "

cresshead
04-28-2009, 01:09 PM
i do love the word "spew"...it's SO descriptive!...yukky!...so no need for a photo please!

*Pete*
04-28-2009, 01:12 PM
but they haven't even shut down/slow down boarders, and it's like they're afraid to mention that it came from Mexico.

the medicine Tamiflu works well against swine flu, besides stopping borders would make absolutely no difference...you propably have tens of thousands passive carriers of the virus in USA already, most of them will not even get sick even though they can infect everyone they meet.

closing the borders would do just about no difference at all...

anyway, you shouldnt worry, we need viruses to keep our bodies immunesystem up do date...

OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 01:20 PM
ye but everytime it infects someone it mutants ever so slightly hence the delay in the vacanation , i have this persception on human life and here it is , some may totaly desegree and i apoligize if i offend , but i need to say it ,,,,,,

The Human race is a virus , no more no little , ok we have became complex organism and have developed high intelegence "except me because i cant spell " but again we are a virus

we breed , we eat , we kill the host "earth "

i rest my case :)

ps i think my kid has slap cheek !

Titus
04-28-2009, 01:23 PM
and it's like they're afraid to mention that it came from Mexico.

It actually appeared in the US first.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 01:40 PM
It actually appeared in the US first.

the bbc news said the usa discovered it in some lab results from someone there first but that infected patient was from mexico either on a trip there or lived in that locale..they then contacted mexico to see if they had any issues and they had but had not got ahold of 'what' was happening at that time...mexico still only has 7 CONFIRMED cases of death by swine flu...the other 143 are yet to be determined.

to try n explain abit better the usa have much larger/capable testing labs than mexico has and so found it first and traced it back to mexico and the swine flu connection...

cresshead
04-28-2009, 01:43 PM
ye but everytime it infects someone it mutants ever so slightly hence the delay in the vacanation , i have this persception on human life and here it is , some may totaly desegree and i apoligize if i offend , but i need to say it ,,,,,,

The Human race is a virus , no more no little , ok we have became complex organism and have developed high intelegence "except me because i cant spell " but again we are a virus

we breed , we eat , we kill the host "earth "

i rest my case :)

ps i think my kid has slap cheek !

there is NO vaccine as yet..and will take upto 6 months to make one.

anti virals ONLY work IF you give them in the early stages...

OnlineRender
04-28-2009, 01:49 PM
i think with flu jags "general " there effectivley always 5 years behind , due to rapid evolution of the virus , all they can do is a caculated guess at what it will evolve into , i seen the live covarage on bbc news medical conference yesterday, and the people who were standing there seemed very confident , but answered no direct question . . . they know exactly what will happen and how fast

JBT27
04-28-2009, 02:47 PM
Bizarre it's hitting middle-aged people, so it seems. That honeymoon couple in Scotland are recovering, from what were described as mild flu symptoms - other people they were in contact with were showing symptoms of a mild cold, according to the 5.00pm news, though it was confirmed as swine flu. What was most curious was the medic guy who you could hear was genuinely baffled by this middle-aged thing.

I'm keeping my head down on this one - life-long asthmatic - the last thing I need is a dose of any kind of weird flu ..... :)

Julian.

adamredwoods
04-28-2009, 02:50 PM
Please keep in mind that ordinary influenza kills about 65000 people per year.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 02:52 PM
Actually...

It is estimated that anywhere from 20 to 100 million people were killed worldwide,[3] or the approximate equivalent of one third of the population of Europe,[4][5][6] more than double the number killed in World War I.[7]

From Wikipedia

actually...let's get some realistic numbers not some user submitted scarmongering in there...

FLU PANDEMICS

* 1918: The Spanish flu pandemic remains the most devastating outbreak of modern times - infecting up to 40% of the world's population and killing more than 50m people, with young adults particularly badly affected


* 1957: Asian flu killed two million people. Caused by a human form of the virus, H2N2, combining with a mutated strain found in wild ducks. The elderly were particularly vulnerable


* 1968: An outbreak first detected in Hong Kong, and caused by a strain known as H3N2, killed up to one million people globally, with those over 65 most likely to die

Larry_g1s
04-28-2009, 02:55 PM
It actually appeared in the US first.No, it shows it was Mexico, and by the looks of it Mexico City. I pray you stay well.

Titus
04-28-2009, 03:00 PM
Yeah, it seems a pig taco transformed somehow in this new virus.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 03:12 PM
current world state of swine flu as of 10pm news on bbc

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72943&d=1240953097

Hopper
04-28-2009, 03:16 PM
Also keep in mind that this isn't some "killer flu virus". It's just like any other flu. If you have somewhat of a healthy immune system, it's going to be just like any other flu. The "regular" flu kills just like any other. Some fluids and a bottle of ordinary anitbiotics is going to put you right as rain. It would just be preferred if we didn't have yet another weird strain of flu to contend with floating about the planet.

Titus
04-28-2009, 03:20 PM
Also keep in mind that this isn't some "killer flu virus". It's just like any other flu.

We don't know yet. According to the WHO we need more information before say anything about this.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 03:21 PM
We don't know yet. According to the WHO we need more information before say anything about this.

:agree:


apparently healthy 20 to 40years olds ARE dying from this.

Red_Oddity
04-28-2009, 03:25 PM
For those who like to stay up to date : http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&t=p&msa=0&msid=106484775090296685271.0004681a37b713f6b5950&ll=32.639375,-110.390625&spn=15.738151,25.488281&z=5

harlan
04-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Yes.. but that's before we had these! Go anywhere, fear free!

It's the fuill body condom!

http://www.guitar.com/uploaded/profile_images/forum_e3cf272e_Body%20condom.jpg


Hmmm, no reservoir tip though! ;)

Mike_RB
04-28-2009, 03:46 PM
site with some stats (http://www.dhpe.org/infect/flu.html)

Between pandemics, smaller but still substantial influenza epidemics are common. In 1994, an estimated 90 million Americans (about 35% of the population) contracted the flu. More typically, influenza strikes 10% to 20% of the U.S. population yearly. In an average year, influenza is associated with about 20,000 deaths nationwide and many more hospitalizations.

---

so... 55 people daily die in the US of the flu. I honestly can't believe this swine flu thing has gotten this much attention...

cresshead
04-28-2009, 03:52 PM
links>

http://www.who.int/csr/don/2009_04_24/en/index.html

http://www.cdc.gov/swineflu/?s_cid=swineFlu_outbreak_internal_001

cresshead
04-28-2009, 03:56 PM
site with some stats (http://www.dhpe.org/infect/flu.html)

Between pandemics, smaller but still substantial influenza epidemics are common. In 1994, an estimated 90 million Americans (about 35% of the population) contracted the flu. More typically, influenza strikes 10% to 20% of the U.S. population yearly. In an average year, influenza is associated with about 20,000 deaths nationwide and many more hospitalizations.

---

so... 55 people daily die in the US of the flu. I honestly can't believe this swine flu thing has gotten this much attention...


i can tell you why...

The majority of these cases have occurred in otherwise healthy young adults. Influenza normally affects the very young and the very old, but these age groups have not been heavily affected in Mexico.

Because there are human cases associated with an animal influenza virus, and because of the geographical spread of multiple community outbreaks, plus the somewhat unusual age groups affected, these events are of high concern.

WhiteBoy
04-28-2009, 04:07 PM
I honestly can't believe this swine flu thing has gotten this much attention...

Agreed 100%.

I guess it's nice to see something other than the "catastrophic" economy making headlines lately, but good grief, people.

cresshead
04-28-2009, 04:18 PM
it's very early to attempt to judge how far this will go

better to be fore warned than be complacent or dismissive, the 'it won't happen to me' syndrome can lead to all sorts of things and not many of those are good.

if this get to the 3rd world..you'll see just how bad this can go.

WhiteBoy
04-28-2009, 04:26 PM
it's very early to attempt to judge how far this will go

Which is exactly why this story isn't headline news. It's all speculation. I don't believe it shouldn't be getting any attention, but blowing it out of proportion before it's even an issue does its own damage.

Hopper
04-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Stanford University says:

The influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 killed more people than the Great War, known today as World War I (WWI), at somewhere between 20 and 40 million people. It has been cited as the most devastating epidemic in recorded world history. More people died of influenza in a single year than in four-years of the Black Death Bubonic Plague from 1347 to 1351. Known as "Spanish Flu" or "La Grippe" the influenza of 1918-1919 was a global disaster.

----------------

I think when you start getting into the MILLIONS... you don't have to worry about scaremongering - it's alaredy built-in. ;)

Yes, but in 1918, how many people could simply jump in their cars or even walk to a nearby hospital or emergency care clinic? Medical technology is also a wee bit better than it was back then. If the exact same virus of 1918 was an issue today, you would probably not even hear about it.

New mutations of old viruses are always scary and we should indeed be very aware of them, but spreading panic over this is just a bit far fetched. But we'll soon see.

Man.. I think I feel a spell of the bird flu coming on ...

cresshead
04-28-2009, 05:03 PM
Yes, but you're not taking into account world travel - this can spread around the world in days. And you also need to take into account those countries that do not have the capability to handle this efficiently. That... and the possible mutations you've already mentioned should put us all on edge. Yes, medical technology is several orders of magnitude improved now, but when you are talking about a pandemic it still puts the medical community into a spin.

Panic? Not at the moment. But awareness is essential. Hopefully this will all blow over quickly and we see no more deaths. :goodluck:

yeah the time to get really concerned is when there's cases popping up in india, china, pakistan, malaysia, congo, kenya, uganda, s africa, Zimbabwe, brazil and columbia.

if they get it then we need to hope they can deal with it.

the good> we are technically better prepared for pandemics

the not so good> travel..huge numbers of people move around our planet thesedays compared to 1918 or indeed 1968
and around 100,000 cross the mexico/usa boarder each day to work/school

the bad> 3rd world countries are just NOT set up to deal with a pandemic..india which has 1200million population has around 1 million anti viral treatments available.

adamredwoods
04-28-2009, 05:07 PM
Its a new virus, which usually stops after a couple people. That's why it's making news. And news has been a little dry lately.

Since its new, we don't have an immunity yet. It only gets serious when you get pneumonia infection. And b/c its new, there's the cytokine danger where your own immune system attacks you.

wacom
04-28-2009, 05:08 PM
I've heard that if it is like the 1918 flu, which mainly took out people aged 25-45 (vs a normal flu which is the inverse) that it will go through waves- each time getting a bit worse. There is speculation that this is what has happened in Mexico- they've already had a first wave, and now a second is going through and taking a few people out as it's mutated.

I'm not sure what to believe until more is known. For now it's just safe to wash your hands, not touch your face if you can help it, and avoid close contact with folks who have the sniffles etc. That should almost be regular behavior though even without the flu...

BTW- a lot of people confuse the flu with the "stomach flu" which is caused most of the time by forms of food poisoning bacteria that are transmittable. If you're spewing and sitting on the potty all the time chances are you don't have the flu. If you have aches...raspy throat...high fever...chills (like a cold) then it very well could be a form of the flu. Still- same thing- wash your hands...don't touch your face and avoid contact with the spewing ones if you can!

Hopper
04-28-2009, 05:10 PM
Yeah, the whole travel thing is a bit scary. We have the means to address the issue quicker, but we also have the means to spread it infinately faster than back then.

It's those damn pigs... seeking revenge in the only way they know how.

wacom
04-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Since its new, we don't have an immunity yet. It only gets serious when you get pneumonia infection. And b/c its new, there's the cytokine danger where your own immune system attacks you.

AFAIK that's what made the 1918 flu so deadly- it made healthy people's great immune system turn on them- raising their fevers way up and causing this form of pneumonia.

Which had me thinking- pending you can't get anti-virals but have come down with this flu...and are age 25-45- woudln't it be better to just do some heavy drinking for ten days or so? Then your immune system would be really SOL and the virus might run its coarse. :)

1 litter of vodka for every man woman and man child!

Hopper
04-28-2009, 05:17 PM
I think I'm going to have to go with Dr. Wacom's prognosis. I'm about due for some medication today ...

cresshead
04-28-2009, 05:31 PM
just be careful how much you drink..

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20090428/tod-laid-off-russian-stuns-doctors-with-7f81b96.html

cresshead
04-28-2009, 05:33 PM
hey wacom what does SOL mean??

Mike_RB
04-28-2009, 05:36 PM
hey wacom what does SOL mean??

completely out of luck.

wacom
04-28-2009, 05:36 PM
Well patients will always abuse medication!:)

Hey I'm not completely crazy (yeah right) look here:

http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSSYD11479320071010

jameswillmott
04-28-2009, 05:44 PM
hmmmm the end is near

I agree. I'd better get some more Left4Dead practice in before the real thing comes...

cresshead
04-28-2009, 05:49 PM
completely out of luck.

most probably text speak:D

o.t. but i'd actually GET an iphone if there was an iphone app that gave you a rotary dialer on the touch screen!

edit!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fr2APizuXZg

Titus
04-28-2009, 10:09 PM
A great article explaining some things on behalf of Mexico.

http://www.slate.com/id/2217017/

jin choung
04-28-2009, 10:22 PM
meh...

it's an fing flu. right now, it doesn't even seem particularly lethal.

for some odd reason, it was pretty fatal in mexico but everywhere else, it seems to have the effects of plain ol' influenza (which kills 35000 a year in america).

you feel bad, aches and pains, fever. you're down for a few days and then you're ready to go.

but i think the title of this thread is prescient. i fully expect this to have an impact on enclosed social gatherings like movie theaters.

i guess the pirates just scored another reason for bit torrent accessibility: piracy saves lives! : )

jin

Larry_g1s
04-28-2009, 11:56 PM
A great article explaining some things on behalf of Mexico.

http://www.slate.com/id/2217017/

Very sad indeed. But what's also sad is that I believe that is quite possibly what this current administration is doing / would do here in the USA.

OnlineRender
04-29-2009, 02:08 AM
meh...


I guess the pirates just scored another reason for bit torrent accessibility: Piracy saves lives! : )

jin


lol

jin choung
04-29-2009, 02:14 AM
Very sad indeed. But what's also sad is that I believe that is quite possibly what this current administration is doing / would do here in the USA.

ooooo... wanna go there do ya?

this ...current ...administration... ...?

as opposed to the last one that used every conceivable excuse to consolidate power to monarchical - heck, megalomaniacal - proportions?

who'd probably attempt to waterboard the virus out of mexicans? or his repub good ol boy xenophobe flunkies that would use this as a primo opportunity to further demonize the mexican people and create some kind of land mined, sniper patrolled DMZ border "for the health of the american people"?

or the inspiring confidence one gets in how "other administrations'" might handle things as we listen to one of dubya's puppet masters shooting off his fool mouth and MOCKING pandemic preparedness?

http://ragingtantrum.com/?p=2246

oh no no no... you don't want to open this door... oh no you don't.

all things considered, people should be getting on their knees and thanking their lucky stars that they have this CURRENT ADMINISTRATION to deal with matters more significant than a paper cut.

paper cuts and under can be dealt with by the nimrods that ran the last eight years.

jin

blacksmith
04-29-2009, 02:46 AM
It's quite creepy. All I'm afraid is that we'll see more and more of strange flues and other sh**t coming onto us.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 03:36 AM
i did wonder when the "conspiracy theory" would pop up here...:rolleyes:

OnlineRender
04-29-2009, 04:50 AM
i did wonder when the "conspiracy theory" would pop up here...:rolleyes:

The first post :)

spiroz
04-29-2009, 05:28 AM
Whatever sort of virus it is, it cannot possibly have the same impact
as the viral aspect of fear, spreading through the nervous system of media.

Sure, there are pandemics that could threaten the civilisation as whole,
but it's very unlikely. Beeing too lethal isn't an advantage for a virus.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 05:51 AM
Whatever sort of virus it is, it cannot possibly have the same impact
as the viral aspect of fear, spreading through the nervous system of media.

Sure, there are pandemics that could threaten the civilisation as whole,
but it's very unlikely. Beeing too lethal isn't an advantage for a virus.

a virus doesn't look for an "advantage"..it's a virus...it does what it does and mutates as it moves thru the population either getting stronger or weaker as it goes.

biliousfrog
04-29-2009, 05:54 AM
Some of the symptoms are excessive sweating, body odour and lethargy...I'm staying away from our town centre because that covers 90% of the people there.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 06:03 AM
latest figures>
Mexico: 159 suspected deaths - seven confirmed cases
US: one death, at least 63 confirmed cases
Canada: 13 confirmed cases
UK: 5 confirmed cases
Spain: 4 confirmed cases
Germany 3 confirmed cases
New Zealand: 3 confirmed cases
Israel: 2 confirmed cases
Austria: 1 case

interactive map for those who like 'details'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8021547.stm

mattclary
04-29-2009, 07:51 AM
cheer yourselves up and go watch a dvd...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/516D1ckLZaL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51IjY7ax0LL._AA240_.jpg

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41X9M588HRL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

or sharpen up those 'scouting' skills for future use

You forgot one! Captain Trips!

cresshead
04-29-2009, 08:54 AM
28 days later, 28 weeks later, resident evil, the andromeda strain...plenty of upbeat dvd's to put a smile back on your face and a skip in your step!

Titus
04-29-2009, 08:59 AM
You forgot Signals, this is an alien virus.

Oh! and X-files.

*Pete*
04-29-2009, 09:19 AM
Legend with Will Smith...i mean, this swine virus could mutate into making people agressive, strong and bald cannibals.


...could happen,

dwburman
04-29-2009, 09:30 AM
Don't forget "12 Monkeys"

If you'd like to see a conspiracy theory for this event, check out:
http://turnerradionetwork.blogspot.com/2009/04/prepare-to-die-its-been-planned-and-has.html

Everyone knows that Bush and Obama work for the same super secret organization. :D

cresshead
04-29-2009, 09:38 AM
i think the W.H.O are about to go to phase 5 as there's now more than 1 country where person to person infection has taken place where they have not been to mexico

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 10:49 AM
Highly doubtful.You know I got nothing but love for ya Megalodon, but people seriously need to wake up to this current administration values & goals. They have more in line with the guys he (Obama) recently shook hands with (Chavez), then with our countries founding fathers.

The fact that they would use the bail out of banks, and in some cases forced banks to take bail out money, not let them pay it back because the govt. wants a "partnership" in it is SOOOO anti-American it crazy! The govt. should not have any part in the private sector like this. Read our founding fathers.

The fact that the head of the Dept. of Home Land Security would accuse such people as:
those in the arms forces, the ones that have put their lives in jeopardy for the safety of our country
those that believe in the 2nd ammendment
those that believe in the sanctaty of life (pro-life)
etc.
as potential terrorist, is more along the lines of something that some one like Amadenajad (the President of Iran), or chairman Mao would say, is scary!

And this is all in less then the first 3 months in office. WE'VE GOT 3YRS AND 9M STILL TO GO!


ooooo... wanna go there do ya?

this ...current ...administration... ...?jinI got nothing but love for you to Jin, but come on...I thought you were better then this, I've seen/read you argue many times on these board, and I really expected more from. Seriously this has to be the worst argument! It's like trying to defend Mussolini by comparing him to Hitler...weak.

I didn't bring up the previous administration, nor do I defend them. The topic at hand is this current administration, and I think it shows just how weak this current administration is, when the best & first defense to defend them is to compare them to the last.

spiroz
04-29-2009, 11:17 AM
a virus doesn't look for an "advantage"..it's a virus...it does what it does and mutates as it moves thru the population either getting stronger or weaker as it goes.

Nope, never said it was.. :)
Just meant that a virus too aggressively killing its hosts wont
spread as efficently or might even eradicate itself in the process.
(I don't know if "stronger" or "weaker" should be attributed to the virus
itself -- maybe rather the weaknesses of the host it exploits.)

warmiak
04-29-2009, 11:41 AM
if you vote for policies that benefit the rich and you are not rich - 1.you will NEVER be rich 2.you're a fool and a pawn. congratulations.


Man, you are really getting radicalized these days ....

I am kind of lost though ... if we want to benefit the poor , then obviously we don't want them to be poor .... but then again , do we want them to become rich and join other rich people in doing whatever despicable things rich people are doing that makes them rich ?

So what happens if they become rich ? Do we then stop supporting them and wait until they become poor again so we can start supporting them again ?


As I said, I am kind of lost ..

cresshead
04-29-2009, 12:09 PM
Man, you are really getting radicalized these days ....

I am kind of lost though ... if we want to benefit the poor , then obviously we don't want them to be poor .... but then again , do we want them to become rich and join other rich people in doing whatever despicable things rich people are doing that makes them rich ?

So what happens if they become rich ? Do we then stop supporting them and wait until they become poor again so we can start supporting them again ?


As I said, I am kind of lost ..

simple..don't do anything...let the next virus pull the population down so we can get out of the resession...EEEK!..more money for the rich:hat:

of course i don't subscribe to that idea but some may do and by looking at the current actions it could be said that this is happening right now.

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 12:09 PM
i got nothing but love for you to jin, but come on...i thought you were better then this, i've seen/read you argue many times on these board, and i really expected more from. Seriously this has to be the worst argument! It's like trying to defend mussolini by comparing him to hitler...weak.


oh snap! It on baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 12:15 PM
So what happens if they become rich ? Do we then stop supporting them and wait until they become poor again so we can start supporting them again ?

To be "rich" in monetary terms means to have MUCH more than the average person. Where you live well beyond what is a standard.

So let's not hyper-analyze the situation, since we can rationalize that the poor will rarely ever become rich. The purpose of helping out the poor is to raise the standard of living and to keep a healthy middle class.

This usually results in less crime and better education. Don't we all want this?

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 12:21 PM
If you'd like to see a conspiracy theory for this event, check out:
http://turnerradionetwork.blogspot.com/2009/04/prepare-to-die-its-been-planned-and-has.html

Everyone knows that Bush and Obama work for the same super secret organization. :D

Love pages like that, makes me glad im sane.

mattclary
04-29-2009, 12:28 PM
Don't forget "12 Monkeys"

If you'd like to see a conspiracy theory for this event, check out:
http://turnerradionetwork.blogspot.com/2009/04/prepare-to-die-its-been-planned-and-has.html

Everyone knows that Bush and Obama work for the same super secret organization. :D

OK, I am not real big on conspiracy theories, but that is some seriously freaking scary stuff right there. Just the visuals of the plastic coffins and concrete burial crypts are enough to make you ask "WTF do they know that we don't?"

lwaddict
04-29-2009, 12:30 PM
Case discovered in the high school, now closed, just up the street...

I work in Biotech and trust me when I say that the most dangerous thing that will come of this outbreak... is people who are not properly informed.

It was the main cause of most deaths in the last three incidents, it will be the main cause in this one as well.

Wash your hands, a lot.

Stay away from crowds.

Keep windows up whenever possible.

Wash hands a lot.

Do not share information you 'think' is accurate.

Contact local authority on the issue for accurate and current information before acting.

DO gather supplies necessary to live at home for up to two weeks straight.
In most cases, this will include movies and video games folks so we all don't kill each of during fits of cabin fever.

Hang in there,
God bless,
This too shall pass.

And 'no'...this is not IT.
Beware of those who talk about how it is...
as they've probably already soaked up as much misinformation as their heads can hold.

LW

lwaddict
04-29-2009, 12:31 PM
Again...

Avoid close contact.

Avoid close contact with people who are sick. When you are sick, keep your distance from others to protect them from getting sick too.

Stay home when you are sick.

If possible, stay home from work, school, and errands when you are sick. You will help prevent others from catching your illness.

Cover your mouth and nose.

Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when coughing or sneezing. It may prevent those around you from getting sick.

Clean your hands.

Washing your hands often will help protect you from germs.

Avoid touching your eyes, nose or mouth.

Germs are often spread when a person touches something that is contaminated with germs and then touches his or her eyes, nose, or mouth.

Practice other good health habits.

Get plenty of sleep, be physically active, manage your stress, drink plenty of fluids, and eat nutritious food.

IMI
04-29-2009, 12:37 PM
Woohoo!

Political discussions return! And it hasn't been locked yet!

Let the good times roll!

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 12:50 PM
OK, I am not real big on conspiracy theories, but that is some seriously freaking scary stuff right there. Just the visuals of the plastic coffins and concrete burial crypts are enough to make you ask "WTF do they know that we don't?"

The problem with that conspiracy article is that it's been discussed before and proved false. But if you grab enough info you can make your own conspiracies. Its a human trait to apply human thought (ala God theory, government consp) to things one doesn't understand.

I got spooked when I read that said website and followed this link:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601101&sid=aXjbg7pIcXo4&refer=japan

But here's the STORY BEHIND THE STORY:
http://www.yokota.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123133675

But what IS TRULY SCARY is reading the comments... *shudder*

Liber777
04-29-2009, 12:50 PM
Legend with Will Smith...i mean, this swine virus could mutate into making people agressive, strong and bald cannibals.

And the two versions of this movie before this:

'Omega Man' where Charlton Heston fights the infected who have turned into blaxpoitative hipster vampires.

'Last Man on Earth' with Vincent Price, and the closest version to the original short story.


Um, plus the tv series, 'Jeremiah'

IMI
04-29-2009, 12:54 PM
'Omega Man' where Charlton Heston fights the infected who have turned into blaxpoitative hipster vampires.




You know, I saw that movie again only about a month ago. I remember seeing it when I was a kid and thinking it was pretty cool, but this past time... it just sucked. Sucked bad, sucked.... as in embarrassingly sucky.

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 12:59 PM
You know, I saw that movie again only about a month ago. I remember seeing it when I was a kid and thinking it was pretty cool, but this past time... it just sucked. Sucked bad, sucked.... as in embarrassingly sucky.

What? It wasnt THAT bad. They killed one of the kid characters, brutally, in that version. No studio would dare do that in today's movies.

Titus
04-29-2009, 01:30 PM
DO gather supplies necessary to live at home for up to two weeks straight.
In most cases, this will include movies and video games folks so we all don't kill each of during fits of cabin fever.

LW


Panic shopping is a bad suggestion.

jin choung
04-29-2009, 01:35 PM
nor do I defend them. The topic at hand is this current administration, and I think it shows just how weak this current administration is, when the best & first defense to defend them is to compare them to the last.

point 1. good, i'm glad you don't defend them. at least we're on the same page there.

point 2. no defense is necessary. it's been 100 days of damage control. the fact that you're jumping the gun and condemning now doesn't speak highly of your objectivity.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

as for bank bailouts and all that. they are corrupt mother fers. they are the ones that made the mess.

the bail out started with the repubs and most SANE ECONOMISTS feel that's the best way to go.

personally, i wanted to see it all burn to the ground and get mad max on the motherfer. but that's me.

motherfing execs still getting million dollar bonuses for failure and you're b1tching about the government wanting to run the show?

sorry but pfffft....

the private sector done fd up and they're "too big to fail". it is regulation that should have prevented THAT situation in the first place. i want failed businesses to fail too. but government must make sure then that all of them are "small enough" to do so without it becoming a threat to the nation as a whole.

read my lips - "IF YOU ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL, YOU ARE TOO BIG TO BE FREE"
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

second ammendment eh? that the one about adultery?

anyway, if i had my way, i'd let the nra nutjobs run the country. sure. firearms for all. that might work alright in rural indiana. kinda different in south central l.a.

but still. if i had my way, i'd give them their shot to run things. just so i can say i told you so to all the ones not shot and dead.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

finally - abortion.

the issue of whether the 8 cells of a blastocyst is a "human being" or "person" is not a scientific question. it is not a medical question. it is a PHILOSOPHICAL QUESTION.

on par with whether humans have souls.

why should your group get to determine that answer for everyone? we don't let hindus define sacred life and mandate vegetarianism for everyone.

without your scriptures, there is NO way to PROVE that a 8 cells is a "person". and at that point, you lose.

you guys always get WHAT IS confused with what MIGHT or WILL BE. there is a DIFFERENCE.

an egg is not a chicken. neither is an acorn an oak tree. neither is a med student a doctor. but such simple facts are things you guys mysteriously do not allow.

finally, even according to your scriptures, do you even know what happens to an aborted fetus? do you know if it is bound for heaven or hell?

if you don't even know that, how can you possibly claim authority on the status of 8 cells?

it is a philosophical question that has no DEFINITIVE ANSWER without a specific religion's books. that being the case, it has no business being in legislation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danbury_Baptists

"The Danbury Baptist Association of Danbury, Connecticut sent a letter, dated October 7, 1801, to the newly elected President Thomas Jefferson, expressing concern over the lack in their state constitution of explicit protection of religious liberty, and against a government establishment of religion.

In their letter to the President, the Danbury Baptists affirmed that "Our Sentiments are uniformly on the side of Religious Liberty — That Religion is at all times and places a matter between God and individuals — That no man ought to suffer in name, person, or effects on account of his religious Opinions - That the legitimate Power of civil government extends no further than to punish the man who works ill to his neighbor..."[5]

As a religious minority in Connecticut, the Danbury Baptists were concerned that a religious majority might "reproach their chief Magistrate... because he will not, dare not assume the prerogatives of Jehovah and make Laws to govern the Kingdom of Christ," thus establishing a state religion at the cost of the liberties of religious minorities."

jin

jin choung
04-29-2009, 01:40 PM
Man, you are really getting radicalized these days ....

"these days"? man... you haven't been paying attention.

and if being against a SYSTEM that puts more human beings in prison than ANY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD....

against a system that engenders a situation such that the top 2% of the population controls more wealth than the other 98% combined....

... well then... hand me my pitchfork and light my torch and smack me with a giant sandwich board that says "radical" and i'll march happily with it.

and if you're not in the top 2% and you defend the policies that keep them in their gold plated robes... yeah, my siggy says it all.

jin

*Pete*
04-29-2009, 02:08 PM
A saw nothing wrong with the Chavez handshaking, etc. - we MUST find a better way than the diplomacy of the previous administration. Look at Cuba - Castro is NOW willing to talk to us and even admitted that they may have gotten a few things wrong. That's incredible. How did this happen?

simple human behaviour...force someone in the corner and they will fight to the death, shake hands and honestly seek for a solution and you will often find that the other part is equally intrested in a solution as well.

it will be intresting what will happen in the middle east, since from what i read so far it seems as southern americas most hardened socialists and selfdeclared enemies of USA are starting to loosen up and speak well about USA and its president.

isolation has, as we have seen, done nothing at all...its just a "pause mode" where nothing happens, at all.


Jin..instead of the choice of bailing out vs letting the banks crash and burn, there would have been a third way...nationalisation.

you would OWN the banks, you would be able to stop bonuses and put the money of the bank into circulation instead of having it collect inside the bank for security..a national bank needs no security so it can do all the right things that need to be done without risks.

of course..its the most expensive option of all, but its the only option where you have a standing chance (quaranteed actually) to get your money back when you sell the banks back to the private sector, after the crisis has been solved.

unfortunately, such solutions wont happen in USA where anything that smells like state ownership or socialism is considered the biggest evil there is.

basically it goes like this.
bail out = hope that the moneyflow starts again, it all depends on the actions of the banks.
crash and burn = destruction of our economy, completely..
nationalisation = stockmarkets DOWN, but perfect controll over the money flow.

lwaddict
04-29-2009, 02:37 PM
Who said anything about 'panic shopping'?

I didn't tell ya to rush down to Wallyworld and stuff the car with pork and twinkies.

You should always have what you'd need for a two week stint...
it's called grocery shopping, do it and make sure there's ample canned goods
and a rotation of water.

You should also have what is needed for basic medical incidents like cuts, scraps, cold, flu...this is called grocery shopping again or stocking the medicine cabinet.

Having nothing available...even on an average sunny day... is stupid.

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 04:18 PM
point 1. good, i'm glad you don't defend them. at least we're on the same page there.

point 2. no defense is necessary. it's been 100 days of damage control. the fact that you're jumping the gun and condemning now doesn't speak highly of your objectivity.Tripling our nations deficit, appointing people to his cabinet (one of which over sees the Treasury) that willing avoided paying taxes, releasing vital information to our enemies, & forcing banks who didn't want a bail out to take it is ridiculous and a straw man to call it "damage control." The fact of the matter is it's a cop out. Their scape goat. No matter how bad they screw up, they'll blame it on the last administration, and people will eat it up. Sad.
-----------------------------------------------------------------



as for bank bailouts and all that. they are corrupt mother fers. they are the ones that made the mess.

the bail out started with the repubs and most SANE ECONOMISTS feel that's the best way to go.

personally, i wanted to see it all burn to the ground and get mad max on the motherfer. but that's me.

motherfing execs still getting million dollar bonuses for failure and you're b1tching about the government wanting to run the show?

sorry but pfffft....

the private sector done fd up and they're "too big to fail". it is regulation that should have prevented THAT situation in the first place. i want failed businesses to fail too. but government must make sure then that all of them are "small enough" to do so without it becoming a threat to the nation as a whole.

read my lips - "IF YOU ARE TOO BIG TO FAIL, YOU ARE TOO BIG TO BE FREE" Do your homework...the current administration KNEW about the bonuses. I had a discussion with a guy in my office about the bonuses weeks before Obama said he only heard about it. How does a guy in my office know more then the President who said it was okay to give them that much of OUR money!!! There is a clip from C-Span dated the month before that shows Geithner discussing the bonuses. This idea that Obama is mad like the rest of the country after the crap hits the fan because he "just recently found out", is ridiculous and irresponsible. If the man and his team doesn't know before hand where mine and your tax dollars are going to go, before they go to bail someone out, he shouldn't be running the country.

I've got an idea, how about instead of giving billions & billions of someone else's money to these failing corps., why not give it BACK TO THE RIGHTFUL OWNERS of the money (the taxpayer) so they can go out and buy things like cars, tv's, investing it, etc. It seemed to work for Reagan after he got the mess from Jimmy Obama..er sorry...Carter...Jimmy Carter.

And now the fact that they won't let them pay it back but want to run it is even worse! When you have the government running whole or parts of the private sector, this is SOCIALISM. And we know it doesn't work.
Here are a couple of quote from Thomas Jefferson (the third President of the United States (1801–1809), the principal author of the Declaration of Independence (1776), and one of the most influential Founding Fathers.)

“If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations which grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their father conquered.”
- Thomas Jefferson
Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone. The people themselves, therefore, are its only safe depositories.
- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, Query 14, 1781

If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people, under the pretence of taking care of them, they must become happy.
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, Nov 29, 1802
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

second amendment eh? that the one about adultery?
finally - abortionjinYou gotta stay on track with me Jin. I wasn't arguing for or against these things. My point was how in the world does an appointee to Defense of Home Land Security place returning men and women in military, those who agree with our Constitution when it comes to the 2nd amendment, those who believe in the sanctity of life (ie. pro-life), etc. in the same category as TERROIST?!?!

As I said before, I'll say again, this current administration has more in common with many of the people (many whom are dictators) who hate this country then our founding fathers & how they framed this great country! That is very disturbing!

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 04:41 PM
As I said before, I'll say again, this current administration has more in common with many of the people (many whom are dicators) who hate this country then our founding fathers & how they framed this great country! That is very disturbing!

Obama is a deist? Cool.

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Obama is a deist? Cool.Fixed, thanks. ;) (where did you get deist, that's not what I spelt? lol)

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 04:53 PM
And now the fact that they won't let them pay it back but want to run it is even worse! When you have the government running whole or parts of the private sector, this is SOCIALISM. And we know it doesn't work.


(Oh how the gates get opened a little further...)

How do we know socialism doesn't work?
Have you lived in a socialist country? What didn't work?
Why is capitalism so superior?
What makes a government more superior to another, "Wealth and power" or "education and peace"?

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 04:56 PM
(Oh how the gates get opened a little further...)

How do we know socialism doesn't work?
Have you lived in a socialist country? What didn't work?
Why is capitalism so superior?
What makes a government more superior to another, "Wealth and power" or "education and peace"?Well...go ask Carl Marx? ;)
Secondly, it makes me very very sad that someone in the United States could even ask such a question. Let me tell you, there are many reasons why America is one of the greatest countries that have been & has a problem with people wanting to come and live here, and they are an antithesis of socialism.

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Fixed, thanks. ;) (where did you get deist, that's not what I spelt? lol)

I was excited to think that maybe Obama wasn't a christian at heart, like many of the founding fathers. Many of them were deists.

Titus
04-29-2009, 05:01 PM
You should always have what you'd need for a two week stint...
it's called grocery shopping, do it and make sure there's ample canned goods
and a rotation of water.



Yeah, massive amount of people is doing "grocery shopping" right now and is nearly a chaos. When media or gvmt. suggest people to go to stores this can become out of hand very fast.

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 05:30 PM
I was excited to think that maybe Obama wasn't a christian at heart, like many of the founding fathers. Many of them were deists.Many of them we not just deist.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
-Patrick Henry (A famous Revolutionary leader and orator, Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty, or give me death" which became the battle cry of the American Revolution.)

"The Bible is the rock on which this Republic rests."
Andrew Jackson (The seventh President of the United States)

"The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."
-Samuel Adams (a signer of the Declaration of Independence and called the first Continental Congress.) Known as the "Father of the American Revolution," Sam Adams organized the famous Boston Tea Party, a landmark event that sparked the War of Independence with Great Britain.

"It is the duty of mankind on all suitable occasions to acknowledge their dependence on the Divine Being...[that] Almighty God would mercifully interpose and still the rage of war among the nations...[and that] He would take this province under His protection, confound the designs and defeat the attempts of its enemies, and unite our hearts and strengthen our hands in every undertaking that may be for the public good, and for our defense and security in this time of danger." - Benjamin Franklin was one of America's most influential and famous founding fathers.


"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
- Alexander Hamilton (January 11, 1755 or 1757 – July 12, 1804) a signer of the Constitution and one of America's most preeminent founding fathers, was the first Secretary of the Treasury, a Founding Father, economist, and political philosopher. He led calls for the Philadelphia Convention, was one of America's first Constitutional lawyers, and cowrote the Federalist Papers, a primary source for Constitutional interpretation.


Shall I continue?

Sadly, I don't think you have to worry about Obama not being a Christian at heart.

And this ones for you adamredwoods:
"The duty of government is to leave commerce to its own capital and credit as well as all other branches of business, protecting all in their legal pursuits, granting exclusive privileges to none."
Andrew Jackson

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 05:33 PM
I wasn't worried.

jin choung
04-29-2009, 05:36 PM
Many of them we not just deist.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
-Patrick Henry (A famous Revolutionary leader and orator, Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty, or give me death" which became the battle cry of the American Revolution.)

"The Bible is the rock on which this Republic rests."
Andrew Jackson (The seventh President of the United States)

"The right to freedom being the gift of the Almighty...The rights of the colonists as Christians...may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutions of The Great Law Giver and Head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament."
-Samuel Adams (a signer of the Declaration of Independence and called the first Continental Congress.) Known as the "Father of the American Revolution," Sam Adams organized the famous Boston Tea Party, a landmark event that sparked the War of Independence with Great Britain.

"It is the duty of mankind on all suitable occasions to acknowledge their dependence on the Divine Being...[that] Almighty God would mercifully interpose and still the rage of war among the nations...[and that] He would take this province under His protection, confound the designs and defeat the attempts of its enemies, and unite our hearts and strengthen our hands in every undertaking that may be for the public good, and for our defense and security in this time of danger." - Benjamin Franklin was one of America's most influential and famous founding fathers.


"I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man."
- Alexander Hamilton (January 11, 1755 or 1757 – July 12, 1804) a signer of the Constitution and one of America's most preeminent founding fathers, was the first Secretary of the Treasury, a Founding Father, economist, and political philosopher. He led calls for the Philadelphia Convention, was one of America's first Constitutional lawyers, and cowrote the Federalist Papers, a primary source for Constitutional interpretation.


Shall I continue?

Sadly, I don't think you have to worry about Obama not being a Christian at heart.

And this ones for you adamredwoods:
"The duty of government is to leave commerce to its own capital and credit as well as all other branches of business, protecting all in their legal pursuits, granting exclusive privileges to none."
Andrew Jackson

ugh...

again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danbury_Baptists

and jesus didn't have a lot of good things to say about money or wealth. seems like christians and conservatives really don't like to think about that.

ugh...

jin

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 05:40 PM
I wasn't worried.Well I did say sadly. With all my criticism, I don't wish bad on him or those currently in power. In fact the Bible says to pray for those who are leadership of the government, and Paul wrote that under Nero. They are still all sinners in need of saving.

I'm simply addressing their values and agenda, which I believe are tearing down the fabric and foundations of our great country.

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 05:46 PM
ugh...

again:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danbury_Baptists


jinJin read in context. It's saying that the government will not impose a particular religion.

Read it. Or do you just see something referring to Christ/Bible and cut and paste? I'm expecting more from you Jin.

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
-Patrick Henry (A famous Revolutionary leader and orator, Patrick Henry said "Give me liberty, or give me death" which became the battle cry of the American Revolution.)

These people were there, not you. They know what it meant by Separation of Church and State, not what those would like it to mean so they can run with their agenda.

One has to be either ignorant (i.e. un-informed) or completely brain-washed to the fact that this great country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics. I'm not saying it was/is a "christian nation". But it was/is a country built upon the bible and the God of the bible. Anyone who denies this is as I said, ignorant (i.e. un-informed) or completely brain-washed. But now that we've been informed, that only leaves one option should people choose to deny this.


and jesus didn't have a lot of good things to say about money or wealth. seems like christians and conservatives really don't like to think about that.

ugh...

jinEither this is a low blow, or you've got me confused with someone else. Not once have I defended greed. I'm defending a system that allows people to be free. You're confusing capitalism with greed. They are two distinct things.

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 05:53 PM
Well...go ask Carl Marx? ;)
Secondly, it makes me very very sad that someone in the United States could even ask such a question.

It makes me very sad that you would not want me to think for myself.



Let me tell you, there are many reasons why America is one of the greatest countries that have been & has a problem with people wanting to come and live here, and they are an antithesis of socialism.

What are some reasons that make a country "the greatest"? How could Iran become "the greatest" country?


granting exclusive privileges to none."
Andrew Jackson
So you're saying Andrew Jackson would be against "Marriage ONLY between a Man and a Woman"...?

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 05:58 PM
completely brain-washed to the fact that this great country was founded on Judeo-Christian ethics.

I still think its a shame Deuteronomy 13 wasn't put into the constitution.

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 06:05 PM
Please don't - I can site JUST AS MANY references to the Founding Fathers as not being Christians (as Christians are today) as you have just quoted. And one or two that specifically state that the United States was NOT founded on the Christian religion - a treaty signed by George Washington and written by John Adams I believe.

Don't bring this crap up again here - we've gone through this stuff so many times and we don't need yet another church thread. Your beliefs are yours and you are entitled to them. You must understand that not everyone here believes as you do.Come on Megalodon, be fair, I didn't bring it up but responded.

I'm sorry, but there is just too much evidence of what I've wrote. Go read what Benjamin Franklin said at the Convention when he motioned for Prayer. We just have too much history for this to be disputed.

I don't understand why people are so against this. It's not like you have to convert because you admit the truth. Why such animosity to the truth?


And Obama is not tripling the national debt. It WAS, however, DOUBLED by the last administration and we have nothing to show for it. At least the increase in the debt NOW will help to get us out of this recession. Debate THAT please - but not the religious affiliation of the founding fathers. You will not win and will only succeed in creating a heated debate that will end up nowhere.He want's to. Secondly, the last administration in the last two years was majority democrat in the congress, the place were the money is spent!

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 06:07 PM
I still think its a shame Deuteronomy 13 wasn't put into the constitution.Keep it context Mike. It'll help you stay out of your realm. ;)

jin choung
04-29-2009, 06:09 PM
larry,

stop your condescension. it's weak.

i read it. further i understood it. you do not. if you understood it, you would understand what it meant that BAPTISTS were seeking such a separation and what that would mean in today's context.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'll make this simple.

you think obama is a failure because of your political alignment. that's it. there is no objectivity to it. as much objectivity as in rush limbaugh (you a fan? full disclosure here.. who do you listen to? you gotta listen to somebody....).

that's fine.

you're a nice guy.

but we will never agree about these big topics. not because i'm not right. (i am. and you are wrong and poorly informed by right wing propaganda.) but because you're biased (and you would say just the same about me).

and i am wretchedly tired of trying to make you people see reality and sense.

so i'm not.

we will never agree.

and that being the case, in a truly non-personal sentiment (if you can understand what i'm trying to say here), i really hope that you are really unhappy about the country for a really long time.

it means my side is winning. and so i'm going to sit back and enjoy it. i'll stew again when the repubs once again inevitably vote some pre-literate dumas into the white house.

but it's your turn to suffer now. and i'll not be baited away from my enjoyment.

my turn to smile.

so stew as you will. i'm outside in shades and a beer raising a glass to obama.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and i'm waiting repubs. you bring your culture war, i will bring my class war... and since your carpenter's son spoke up for the poor and weak and decidedly not for the top 2%, we each have a claim don't we?

pitchforks sharpened - check
torch dripping with accelerant - check
cold beer - check
sunglasses - check
winning - check
done - check

jin

cresshead
04-29-2009, 06:09 PM
we've moved a step closer the world is now at level 5...
1 step away from a pandemic situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8025931.stm

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 06:11 PM
It makes me very sad that you would not want me to think for myself.Who said you couldn't think for yourself? My somber was in regards to people not understand basic principals and foundations that made this country great.


What are some reasons that make a country "the greatest"? How could Iran become "the greatest" country?Last I checked, Iran (as opposed to the US) doesn't have a problem with people by the millions wanting to become citizens. ;)


So you're saying Andrew Jackson would be against "Marriage ONLY between a Man and a Woman"...?This is a whole other can of worms. One of which I don't mind speaking about. But again, I think context is always the best medicine to understanding something.

jin choung
04-29-2009, 06:12 PM
and this is a good education for people who wouldn't know the founding fathers if they pulled up in a pickup and beat the snot out of them:

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Faith-Tools/The-Founding-Faith-Archive/About-Founding-Faith.aspx

check out the dude's credentials. and read it and be illuminated.

this is not a theocracy. this is not your home or world. remember the whole "pilgrim" thing. wait for yours. leave ours to us.

jin

Larry_g1s
04-29-2009, 06:23 PM
larry,

stop your condescension. it's weak.

i read it. further i understood it. you do not. if you understood it, you would understand what it meant that BAPTISTS were seeking such a separation and what that would mean in today's context.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

i'll make this simple.

you think obama is a failure because of your political alignment. that's it. there is no objectivity to it. as much objectivity as in rush limbaugh (you a fan? full disclosure here.. who do you listen to? you gotta listen to somebody....).

that's fine.

you're a nice guy.

but we will never agree about these big topics. not because i'm not right. (i am. and you are wrong and poorly informed by right wing propaganda.) but because you're biased (and you would say just the same about me).

and i am wretchedly tired of trying to make you people see reality and sense.

so i'm not.

we will never agree.

and that being the case, in a truly non-personal sentiment (if you can understand what i'm trying to say here), i really hope that you are really unhappy about the country for a really long time.

it means my side is winning. and so i'm going to sit back and enjoy it. i'll stew again when the repubs once again inevitably vote some pre-literate dumas into the white house.

but it's your turn to suffer now. and i'll not be baited away from my enjoyment.

my turn to smile.

so stew as you will. i'm outside in shades and a beer raising a glass to obama.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and i'm waiting repubs. you bring your culture war, i will bring my class war... and since your carpenter's son spoke up for the poor and weak and decidedly not for the top 2%, we each have a claim don't we?

pitchforks sharpened - check
torch dripping with accelerant - check
cold beer - check
sunglasses - check
winning - check
done - check

jinI am not condescending, and apologize if you took it as such. I am no better then anyone else and would not want to come off that way. We are have a discussion (one of which we obviously disagree), and it is sometimes difficult to express tone via words. So again, I am not condescending.

I understand the context and it still stand what I said it meant. The government would not enforce a particular state religion. Not what many with a particular agenda would have us believe.

You assume I listen to someone? That's ill informed. I've never listen to Rush Limbaugh. I don't have cable. What I do know is what this great country was founded on. What I do know is what the Bible says about the way we should live and treat fellow human beings. etc. And that is how I vote.

You assume I was happy with the last administration, or that I was giddy about the other choice aside from Obama. You're wrong again. I already said I wasn't defending them.

You can be happy, that's fine. But you can not say this man and current administration isn't more inline with a set of systems and world view that lines up more with fallen regimes, and is an anti-thesis to our founding fathers. You can't have it both ways, history backs me up.


and this is a good education for people who wouldn't know the founding fathers if they pulled up in a pickup and beat the snot out of them:

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Faith-Tools/The-Founding-Faith-Archive/About-Founding-Faith.aspx

check out the dude's credentials. and read it and be illuminated.

this is not a theocracy. this is not your home or world. remember the whole "pilgrim" thing. wait for yours. leave ours to us.

jinAgain, please be honest when posting. I fully admitted that this is not a theocracy. I said this was never a "christian nation". But I did say, and with ample proof, that this is a country founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic.

Megalodon, I will address yours when I get a free moment.

Hopper
04-29-2009, 06:28 PM
I like pie.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 06:30 PM
Who said you couldn't think for yourself? My somber was in regards to people not understand basic principals and foundations that made this country great.

Last I checked, Iran (as opposed to the US) doesn't have a problem with people by the millions wanting to become citizens. ;)

This is a whole other can of worms. One of which I don't mind speaking about. But again, I think context is always the best medicine to understanding something.

:offtopic:

just selected one of the many off topic non virus related replies

if you want to post about politics within the usa and not this world wide devloping swine flu pandemic...make a new thread...simple as that.:mad:

jin choung
04-29-2009, 06:31 PM
history backs me up.

no it doesn't.

and YOU ought to know better. especially with all your gibberish about founding fathers and all the gibberish you claim your opponents spout about them.

history is lost. and you're blind. and you'd say i'm blind. and so to be fair, we're all blind.

history like statistics can be bent and convoluted to suit virtually any purpose.

and worse - at last check, none of us here are historians.

so we're all full of sh1t.

but i'm winning.

jin

IMI
04-29-2009, 06:32 PM
we've moved a step closer the world is now at level 5...
1 step away from a pandemic situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8025931.stm

Uh oh... not a level five! PLEEEEZE.... not... LEVEL.... FIVE! :eek:

Good Lord, at this rate swine flu is going to surpass accidents as a leading cause of death in.... several years!

Looks like it's time to break out the cyanide capsules. I simply refuse to go out at the hands of some pig ailment. :rolleyes:

OnlineRender
04-29-2009, 06:32 PM
www.onlinerender.mybrute.com ROUND 2

IMI
04-29-2009, 06:34 PM
I like pie.


Pie is for wannabees. Cake is where it's at.

Titus
04-29-2009, 06:38 PM
Ok, sorry to interrupt the religious thread. Just want to vent something.

I've the honor to screen a shortfilm at Cannes but the French government is cancelling flights from and to Mexico. The festival is going to deny access to us as well. This is the second time in my life I feel like a pariah.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 06:50 PM
Ok, sorry to interrupt the religious thread. Just want to vent something.

I've the honor to screen a shortfilm at Cannes but the French government is cancelling flights from and to Mexico. The festival is going to deny access to us as well. This is the second time in my life I feel like a pariah.

i said yesterday that flights to mexico were cancelled from u.k. so was only a matter of time and with level 5 it became obvious that flights from mexico would be cancelled in response to the the world being another step closer to a pandemic.

i hope you can understand how people are quite concerned right now and are trying to keep spreading this to a minimum...annoying i know but not as annoying as seeing a 2 year old die from this swine flu.

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 06:57 PM
Who said you couldn't think for yourself? My somber was in regards to people not understand basic principals and foundations that made this country great.

The foundations and beliefs this country was founded on have been known to be faulty. That is what the US Constitutions Amendments are about. Perfection is not a human trait, so don't automatically assume that the founding fathers are flawless. Research, challenge, learn.



Last I checked, Iran (as opposed to the US) doesn't have a problem with people by the millions wanting to become citizens. ;)

I'm asking these questions to try and understand you. You are saying that what makes a country great, are the lines of people wanting to become citizens? It has nothing to do with education, war policies, prisons, poverty, health or anything? It's a popularity contest (ala American Idol)? Are you also saying that it would be impossible for Iran to become (in your mind) the greatest country?

Anyways, even if it is, or you're answer is "that a country is great based on its founding principles..." well, the truth is that people are still lining up to get into this country, even with Obama at the helm. So the conclusion would be "this country is still the greatest".



This is a whole other can of worms. One of which I don't mind speaking about. But again, I think context is always the best medicine to understanding something.
You're right, my mistake, that quote is specific only to commerce and business, not to its citizens. So it doesn't hold much weight, does it? Also, I won't go into why the free market is a myth, just yet.

Titus
04-29-2009, 07:00 PM
i said yesterday that flights to mexico were cancelled from u.k. so was only a matter of time and with level 5 it became obvious that flights from mexico would be cancelled in response to the the world being another step closer to a pandemic.

i hope you can understand how people are quite concerned right now and are trying to keep spreading this to a minimum...annoying i know but not as annoying as seeing a 2 year old die from this swine flu.

WHO said clearly there was no reason to close borders. Of course countries can do whatever they want.

cresshead
04-29-2009, 07:03 PM
WHO said clearly there was no reason to close borders. Of course countries can do whatever they want.

correct..but France has no numbers as yet...they are accountable to their population so have to be seen to be doing "something" and not chance rolling the dice for no big gains doing so.

adamredwoods
04-29-2009, 07:10 PM
i hope you can understand how people are quite concerned right now and are trying to keep spreading this to a minimum...annoying i know but not as annoying as seeing a 2 year old die from this swine flu.

Research, challenge, learn.

It is sad children die from any illnesses, but in 2008, 83 children died. They closed no airports. The influenza spike seasonally ends around May. People fear what they don't know, and governments control them through those means.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5725a5.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/fluactivity.htm

cresshead
04-29-2009, 07:20 PM
i'm sure the world health organisation are much better informed than us guessing and speculating...some countries are very concerned and some ARE over reacting..egypt are killing all pigs even though we know it's spreading via people and pig meat is in fact safe...

japan is meeting those mexico flights in fall haz mat suits...in the u.k. people are just walking off the plane into the arms of their friends at the airports...

which is the best reponse?

honestly i REALLY do not know...i would probably come down on the side of 'possible prevention measures' rather than..ahh heck what can we do anyway...

cresshead
04-29-2009, 07:23 PM
there are some REAL unkowns on this virus like why healthy sub 40 year olds are dying where as it's ususal for the elderly and infirm to die form flu...

with that unkown people have to speculate and guess until the labs come back with answers that explain this.

Hopper
04-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Pie is for wannabees. Cake is where it's at.
I don'-a wanna da B's. I gotta have-a da double D's. :D

And Cake rocks!! :rock: Saw them in Austin at Stubbs last night. Awesome set. I got to talk to Greg Brown after the gig. Cool guy - gave me some guitar tips.

and cake (the food) .. meh .. I like blueberry pie :)

Mike_RB
04-29-2009, 08:01 PM
Again, please be honest when posting. I fully admitted that this is not a theocracy. I said this was never a "christian nation". But I did say, and with ample proof, that this is a country founded on a Judeo-Christian ethic.

Just curious what that ethic is, so I can find written examples that predate it. Funny that they left out so much of that ethic, like that gem from deuteronomy. I wonder what evolved innate sense of morality let them pick and choose....

Hopper
04-29-2009, 09:16 PM
Kids do the darndest things...

http://imgur.com/27K39.jpg

ok .. I think this thread is played out...

cresshead
04-29-2009, 09:40 PM
we haven't reached level 6 yet...

jin choung
04-29-2009, 10:38 PM
not only is the kid cute but the pig is cute too and has an expression on his face that i could totally see on a person in a similar situation.

jin

DiedonD
04-30-2009, 12:16 AM
Man I dislike pigs and I dislike viruses!

Wouldnt mind seeing them both go away! Especially the viruses!

Now. If there is something that is asking for the highest last level of cruelty from humanity are these viruses! If we could be taught how to eliminate them, Id be the first in line to do so!

They brought Polio to its knees! I should expect to see the same for all them viruses!

jin choung
04-30-2009, 12:37 AM
If we could be taught how to eliminate them, Id be the first in line to do so!

i dunno.

they're not cool now but they could be a vital component of the medicine of the future.

viruses invade cells and ALTER THE CELL'S DNA... it HIJACKS the cell to make more viruses.

now THAT'S an interesting function!

if genetic engineering ever really takes off and they find ways to alter DNA to get rid of diseases, they're gonna need DELIVERY AGENTS to take the alteration formula into each and every one of the diseased cells.

can't think of a better way to affect cells en-masse than with a.... VIRUS!

jin

p.s. herpes virus... nasty lil fck that, when in recession, HIDES IN YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM. now THAT'S INTERESTING. cuz there would be lots of cases where we would need to TARGET the nervous system!

p.s.2. i actually like pigs too much and in problematic and irreconcilable ways. i love pork and bacon and such. AND, i think they're cute animals and have read they are very intelligent (you can really taste the intelligence)....

DiedonD
04-30-2009, 01:37 AM
Well there are some viruses, that, say the body is immune to them.

So we may use those for the delivery services!

But H1N1! Id hunt that thing down all the way to the jungle!

And I think, given the means to do so, to ordinary man, you could have more involved in that elimination! Not just highly educated scientists!

Conkered Earth smartly, and all whats visible can be dominated within the human power. But we are so weak when it comes to things that cant be seen but they kill you nevertheless!

Scientists should give directions and provide means as to how can an average Jaran or Joe get to kill viruses. Those lethal ones of course! Those that would rather kill children than provide the transport services to our DNA!

And of course, if we MAY need even the lethal ones in the future, then there are ways to store them, multiply them as necceesary on science labs, for future scientific reference, or gains.

But not set it all loose in the open like this! Im saying, we need to control their beeing!

jin choung
04-30-2009, 02:38 AM
Jin..instead of the choice of bailing out vs letting the banks crash and burn, there would have been a third way...nationalisation.

you would OWN the banks, you would be able to stop bonuses and put the money of the bank into circulation instead of having it collect inside the bank for security..a national bank needs no security so it can do all the right things that need to be done without risks.

of course..its the most expensive option of all, but its the only option where you have a standing chance (quaranteed actually) to get your money back when you sell the banks back to the private sector, after the crisis has been solved.

unfortunately, such solutions wont happen in USA where anything that smells like state ownership or socialism is considered the biggest evil there is.

basically it goes like this.
bail out = hope that the moneyflow starts again, it all depends on the actions of the banks.
crash and burn = destruction of our economy, completely..
nationalisation = stockmarkets DOWN, but perfect controll over the money flow.

yup.

state ownership of banks would've been fine with me. separate BANKS from INVESTMENT INSTITUTIONS and make it like an fing UTILITY. (and yes, per ENRON... F the privatization of motherfing utilities!)

but yeah, a bewildering mass of the american populace are myopic @#$$%@%%$#%@$....

"socialistic policies are all sooooooo evil.... (and by unspoken subtext, capitalism and the mammon that it worships is the root of all salvation)"

that's why we in america have:

- PUBLIC schools
- PUBLIC libraries
- PUBLIC works
- PUBLIC law enforcement
- PUBLIC fire fighting
- SOCIAL security

ALL EVIL! (wtf.... if you can't pay to have someone put out your fire, too fing bad. wtf... are we running a charity here? you can't afford it, tough sh1t. maybe you can sell the charred remains and make some money and prove your worth as a human being. don't have money to live granny? just may be it's time for you to die then....)

and such policies are all aligned with our ENEMIES!!!

like CANADA. and ENGLAND. and FRANCE. and GERMANY. and JAPAN. and KOREA. and NORWAY. and FINLAND. and most of all.... DENMARK.

evil motherfers that eat naught but dust and must weep bitter tears at the state of their misery and poverty.

yes. obama is aligned with evil fs like that! how fing dare he?!

...

seriously man. wtf. i swear if people could be convinced by just grabbing them and shaking the living sh1t out of them, my biceps would just get huuuuuuuuge.

ignorant, propaganda swilling razzafrazzagrumbledygook....

clearly i need more beer. and perhaps a fried snack of somesort.

jin

colkai
04-30-2009, 02:43 AM
Man I dislike pigs and I dislike viruses!

Wouldnt mind seeing them both go away! Especially the viruses!

Pigs go away? No Bacon? NNoooooooooooo!!!!!! ;D

warmiak
04-30-2009, 02:51 AM
yup.

"socialistic policies are all sooooooo evil.... (and by unspoken subtext, capitalism and the mammon that it worships is the root of all salvation)" jin

They are .. no need to speculate .. just look at Eastern Europe.

jin choung
04-30-2009, 02:52 AM
They are .. no need to speculate .. just look at Eastern Europe.

beat you to it. i'm lookin' at canada and western europe and the view looks just fine.

jin

DiedonD
04-30-2009, 04:00 AM
Pigs go away? No Bacon? NNoooooooooooo!!!!!! ;D

Bacon is that good huh? :)

I just GOT to try one!

Its such a famous thing, and yet once when I had a chance to try it I had such a psychological reaction, that If I were to get a mm cloesr to the fork with bacon and eggs on it, I wouldve just vomited!

Gotta beat the programme though!

Bacon goes best with eggs right?

DiedonD
04-30-2009, 04:29 AM
(wtf.... if you can't pay to have someone put out your fire, too fing bad. wtf... are we running a charity here? you can't afford it, tough sh1t. maybe you can sell the charred remains and make some money and prove your worth as a human being. don't have money to live granny? just may be it's time for you to die then....)


Capitalism at extremes! Money will have a say on a humans worth, irrelevant of ENTIRE other characteristics that that one may have!

Its so sad to see that an invention that was made to merely ease up trade would grow so much, and beyond all proportions, so as to rize above humans aswell, and have a say on who gets to live filthy luxorious and who gets to starve to death!

cresshead
04-30-2009, 04:30 AM
current numbers>

Mexico: 168 suspected deaths - eight confirmed
US: one death, at least 91 confirmed cases
New Zealand: 13 confirmed cases
Canada: 19 confirmed cases
UK: 5 confirmed cases
Spain: 10 confirmed cases
Germany: 3 confirmed cases
Israel: 2 confirmed cases
Costa Rica: 2 confirmed cases
Switzerland: 1 confirmed case
Austria:1 confirmed case
Peru: 1 confirmed case

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 07:23 AM
current numbers>

Mexico: 168 suspected deaths - eight confirmed
US: one death, at least 91 confirmed cases
New Zealand: 13 confirmed cases
Canada: 19 confirmed cases
UK: 5 confirmed cases
Spain: 10 confirmed cases
Germany: 3 confirmed cases
Israel: 2 confirmed cases
Costa Rica: 2 confirmed cases
Switzerland: 1 confirmed case
Austria:1 confirmed case
Peru: 1 confirmed case

to add to that list.

300.000 pigs in Egypt.

Egyptian authorities have decided to kill all their pigs to calm down their people, not that they or anyone else but some illiterate people think that pigs carry the virus, but it is done as a symbolic action showing that the goverment takes things seriously....

yea...right, why didnt we kill all the cows in the world when the mad cow sickness was at its height?..i mean, THAT actually did come from COWS!!

anyway...i still do not think that this virus will be too serious problem to the world, it seems to have mutated into a less dangerous one, even if it still is bad...its good that goverments act (in other ways than killing pigs) as it gives us further expertise for future pandemies, but seriously..i do not think this one will prove to be a world destroyer virus.

cresshead
04-30-2009, 07:31 AM
i hope your right but it's waaay too early..and history on pandemic flus outbreaks show these things develop in waves...we're in a low point of the first wave...all depends on if this get to a 3rd world country or not and then explodes thru the population which has poor capabilities to handle it and low stocks of anti virals...if it hits india fo example..that could be VERY bad.

uk tv ad on swine flu>>

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8026121.stm

cresshead
04-30-2009, 07:37 AM
I don't trust people who don't like bacon. Bacon is seriously that good! If you lack receptors on your tongue for the immaculate taste of bacon, what else do you lack as a person? Huh? Huuuuh?

:D

i don't eat much meat thesedays [i'm not a veggie btw] but the smell of bacon will tempt most veggies to rethink and maybe lapse for 'just once'...
if no one's looking!:D

colkai
04-30-2009, 07:52 AM
Bacon buttie - food of the Gods. :D
With brown sauce of course. Droool.

Edit: aside - my work associates mum and dad "fell off the wagon" of being veggie because they missed bacon so much - true! :)

IMI
04-30-2009, 07:53 AM
The government can barely run itself, Jin, and it screws up nearly everything it touches. The government is filled with just as much greed and crime and corruption as the private sector, if not more, and you want them to run the banks?
Forget about the implications of nationalization/socialism - I'm saying that with the way our government functions, it's simply not possible.
At least in the private sector you have probably a 50/50 chance that someone is either honest or dishonest, but... how many elected officials in the government are there because they really want to help? I'd say the huge majority of them are there for the power and the perks, and for what they stand to personally gain.
They tried to "nationalize" the mortgage industry, and we all see how well that worked out.

IMI
04-30-2009, 07:58 AM
Yeah, the whole swine flu panic... err, I mean panDEMic... is increasing at a mind-boggling rate!

Out of the 140,000 or so people that died in the past 24 hours around the world, nearly .001% of them were from swine flu! And in another 24 hours that number may have increased to .0011%! :eek:

We're doomed!

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 08:21 AM
The government can barely run itself, Jin, and it screws up nearly everything it touches. The government is filled with just as much greed and crime and corruption as the private sector, if not more, and you want them to run the banks?

not run but own.

today, the strongest, most solid banks in the world are all Chinese, goverment owned banks, you can also see this in other nations where the banks that goverment has majority or full ownership in stand rock solid.

why?

becouse goverment owned bank is quaranteed to be solid by the nation, and nations do not go out of business, a nation cant run out of money either.

if you would have your x amount of trillions stashed under your bed right now and would be seeking for a safe bank to put them in, where would you put them?

privately owned bank that might crash and burn or a state owned bank that is as solid as the nation owning it.

both give you the same terms, same intrest rate, same quarantee for 2-3 million of your money (very little, seen to your trillions)..where would you put the money?

id pick the national bank since it cant fail and my money would be safe.


another thing is that a privately owned bank is on its own...if it lends money to a company or person who fails to pay back, then the money is more or less lost.
so in times like these you tend to be carefull on where to lend the money...even solid companies suffer becouse of the difficulties to get loans for investments.

a national bank however, can survive any amount of people or companies who will not pay back and can lend money for investests in companies...investments that will keep/give people jobs and improve products or production.

but you are right...a goverment should NOT own banks, this things belong to the private sector, but these are not normal times and extraordinary actions should need to be taken...it worked well in scandinavia, we made money on it and stopped our crisis.

but none of this matters...your govt will never go so far as to nationalise banks, it simply does not have the balls to do it and will instead rely on a more unsafe middle way that MIGHT prove to be both incredibly expensive and completely ineffective, or it might prove to be cheap and effective...its a gamble, nationalisation is not.

cresshead
04-30-2009, 08:21 AM
Yeah, the whole swine flu panic... err, I mean panDEMic... is increasing at a mind-boggling rate!

Out of the 140,000 or so people that died in the past 24 hours around the world, nearly .001% of them were from swine flu! And in another 24 hours that number may have increased to .0011%! :eek:

We're doomed!

the world health organisation don't announce near imminent pandemic just cos they like their sound of their own voices you know:rolleyes:

sorry to tell ya but this doesn't play by hollywood rules..it's not going to explode within 90mins and the hero saves the day just in the nick of time..this may or may not go dormant for weeks or months..or could leap to a 3rd world country in a day and expand overnight to infect hundreds of thousands... yeah i know if, but, may....w.h.o. are being cautious and with good reason...look at the last flu outbreak in 1968...and the 40% of the world killed in the 1918 flu outbreak...50 million dead.

yes statisticly the numbers ARE low right now at this "very moment"


to quote a cool film

"I hope your right, I really do..."

:agree:

warmiak
04-30-2009, 08:41 AM
Capitalism at extremes! Money will have a say on a humans worth, irrelevant of ENTIRE other characteristics that that one may have!

Its so sad to see that an invention that was made to merely ease up trade would grow so much, and beyond all proportions, so as to rize above humans aswell, and have a say on who gets to live filthy luxorious and who gets to starve to death!


You are confusing money with flaws in the human character flaw.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 08:44 AM
an inlfuenca as the swineflu is actually very important for us..and since it seemed to have weakened a lot from the version that appeared in Mexico, i personally would not mind much if i got it.

the more exposed we are to these kinds of things now the stronger resistance we will have towards the killer viruses that will have to appear one day or another.

so no, im not worried about the swineflu, im more worried about over use of antibiotics that will sooner or later give us a supervirus that is immune to medicines...and then we are all f'ed up.

warmiak
04-30-2009, 08:47 AM
becouse goverment owned bank is quaranteed to be solid by the nation, and nations do not go out of business, a nation cant run out of money either.

.


And that's the biggest problem. A bank which cannot go out of business nor run out of money is essentially a blank check for all kinds of abuse and corruption.

It is the worst kind of institution with hardly any accountability ( after all, taxpayers will cover any mistakes ) and a prime target for all kinds of political posturing and pressure.

If we have problems because there are already banks which are “too big to fail” why would you want to create even bigger ones ?

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 08:48 AM
the world health organisation don't announce near imminent pandemic just cos they like their sound of their own voices you know:rolleyes:

no, but they announce it after a set of specific rules...when a virus spreads in X amount of nations it is a "level 5" or "pandemic", but it still doesnt make the virus itself more or less dangerous....im not saying that it is harmless, but even if it is very dangerous panic helps nobody...all the necessary steps need to be taken to try to stop or prepare for the swineflu, but we should not over react just yet...

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 08:52 AM
Warmiak...i can tell you by experience that nationalising banks worked wonders over here..it was done very fast as banks were starting to fail and as soon as the crisis was stopped and the banks made profit again they were returned to private hands.

its a win, win, win situation where the only loser will be the stockowners and bankers with bonuses, which imho means that the right people still get punished for letting the bank fail.

im in no way advocating for permanent ownership of the banks...

cresshead
04-30-2009, 09:00 AM
no, but they announce it after a set of specific rules...when a virus spreads in X amount of nations it is a "level 5" or "pandemic", but it still doesnt make the virus itself more or less dangerous....im not saying that it is harmless, but even if it is very dangerous panic helps nobody...all the necessary steps need to be taken to try to stop or prepare for the swineflu, but we should not over react just yet...

we should also not 'under react' either...

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 09:11 AM
we should also not 'under react' either...

heh...no, i mean..it is good that the goverments OVER react, but we, the average joes should not need to, not yet.

sales on tamiflu on the internet has increased and often the "medicine" from the net is not safe to use, people are selling/buying mouth covers, bunkering up on food and avoiding contact with others and this is just the beginning.

none of that helps in any way, it is a completely unnecessary over reaction and i think that we, the average joes simply cant under react even if we would try...its all in the hands of the world health organisation and our goverments.

Egypt is actually one of the goverments who just reacts..a knee jerk, symbolic reaction by killing all its pigs...just how will that help? lol

IMI
04-30-2009, 09:21 AM
the world health organisation don't announce near imminent pandemic just cos they like their sound of their own voices you know:rolleyes:



I disagree. I think they do. I think we live in an age of overreaction to just about everything, and an age where the media is so driven by competition for "the big scoop", and an age where covering one's @ss is the politically correct thing to do, not to mention advised by lawyers.

With all these elements working together, a totally natural occurrence such as a swine flu outbreak becomes The Big Story and the latest panic.

How about heart disease? Which has, BTW been in "pandemic" status for decades now, and is increasing at a rate much higher than swine flu ever will.

We close down airports so people like Titus here can't go to France when he really needs to out of irrational fear of the extreme off-chance he's going to infect someone.... But we can't go into the elementary schools and round up all the fatties and make them go in two hours early every day for exercise until they shape up.

Well, the airports and schools aren't being closed to protect people - they're being closed to protect corporate and government assets (and @sses) from trial lawyers. And the WHO is the media's bestest buddy in times like this, while the public sits glued to its collective TV and watches the "drama" unfold in between insurance, aspirin and car commercials.

The advertising sponsors absolutely live for this sort of thing, and we play right into their hands.

IMI
04-30-2009, 09:32 AM
not run but own.

today, the strongest, most solid banks in the world are all Chinese, goverment owned banks, you can also see this in other nations where the banks that goverment has majority or full ownership in stand rock solid.



Not run, but owned? What's the difference? As long as some publicly elected (or worse, appointed) committee is sitting at the top, it's still "run".

China? Sorry Pete, but I'm not going to condone America following any example by China. Yeah, sure, they're efficient, responsible and successful, but only because they hold extremely tight reins over everything, including their people and their rights.
And of course they cut corners too, giving them an unfair advantage...such as...Oh, I don't know, like putting lead in things for children and defying trade agreements...
China is successful because it doesn't give a fick about anything and the government maintains extreme control over everything and people who defy that die or disappear.
Is that the price of success and stability? To willingly (or in China's case, unwillingly) hand over all control to your friendly national government?

cresshead
04-30-2009, 09:34 AM
I disagree. I think they do. I think we live in an age of overreaction to just about everything, and an age where the media is so driven by competition for "the big scoop", and an age where covering one's @ss is the politically correct thing to do, not to mention advised by lawyers.

With all these elements working together, a totally natural occurrence such as a swine flu outbreak becomes The Big Story and the latest panic.

How about heart disease? Which has, BTW been in "pandemic" status for decades now, and is increasing at a rate much higher than swine flu ever will.

We close down airports so people like Titus here can't go to France when he really needs to out of irrational fear of the extreme off-chance he's going to infect someone.... But we can't go into the elementary schools and round up all the fatties and make them go in two hours early every day for exercise until they shape up.

Well, the airports and schools aren't being closed to protect people - they're being closed to protect corporate and government assets (and @sses) from trial lawyers. And the WHO is the media's bestest buddy in times like this, while the public sits glued to its collective TV and watches the "drama" unfold in between insurance, aspirin and car commercials.

of course your welcome to your views...but i do not agree with most of it
media do like 'stories' i'll give you that obvious one..

you can't catch heart disease by touching a hard surface like a door..or by someone sneezing near you...find some better analogies, your failing to impress even at a low level here.:)

w.h.o. are not seeking fame and fortune or breaking a 'story' they're trying to get a grip of a set of events that's changing hour by hour...either growing or being held control..
i'm hoping it DOES NOT spread out of control..i DO NOT want to have flu..any type of flu...it's not fun at all.

Titus
04-30-2009, 09:35 AM
It's a hamdemic.

IMI
04-30-2009, 09:43 AM
you can't catch heart disease by touching a hard surface like a door..or by someone sneezing near you...find some better analogies, your failing to impress even at a low level here.:)



No, you missed my point. And my earlier point as well. My point is, swine flu isn't jack sh1t compared to a whole lot of other things we live with day in, day out, for centuries. You have a better chance of falling in the shower and breaking your neck than you do of getting swine flu. You have a better chance of winning the lottery, probably, living in a modern society with access to modern medicine.

Out of six billion+ people on the planet, how many have gotten swine flu? Out of those, how many have died?
Far, far, far more people die every day from things that are not only AS preventable as swine flu, but mostly even MORE preventable.

IMI
04-30-2009, 09:44 AM
It's a hamdemic.


:lol: :thumbsup:

lwaddict
04-30-2009, 10:04 AM
"Its so sad to see that an invention that was made to merely ease up trade would grow so much, and beyond all proportions, so as to rize above humans aswell, and have a say on who gets to live filthy luxorious and who gets to starve to death!"

I always find it funny and somewhat narsosistic of us as individuals when I see us looking at something as old as time itself, trying desperately to pretend that it's happening before our eyes like it wasn't always there.

"I don't remember it ever being this cold" = your getting old, nothing's changed. :twak: Ok, your ability to withstand cold might have. :D

"Geez it's particularly hot this July" = it's hot every July, write it down. :twak:

and the first quote... = you wish to be above a system that you've always been a part of in one way or another. :twak:

The main thing that I've seen change is that our governement, US Governement (at least the last bunch), not even bothering to 'pretend' that they were doing the right thing. Lying, poorly, as if to 3rd graders just to get through each day. :devil:

Other than that...same old same old.

lwaddict
04-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Hamdemic...

THAT's FUNNY

Mike_RB
04-30-2009, 10:43 AM
If you could give me 50% better odds I wouldn't ever be hit by a car I'd happily go chill in a room with some peeps infected with SARS, Swineflu, and chow down on some mad cow burgers. You guys should be playing the lottery with that you think your odds of catching this stuff is. Hold on, I gotta go invest in that Plastic Burial Vault company FEMA is buying from, right after I pick up my new helmet to protect me from the LHC's death rays once it gets back on line.... I'm gonna start wearing it now though, just it case it can shoot them into the past. Wont go to Wal Mart to buy it though, I still don't believe we're any lower than Orange on the Terrorist color wheel, Bush wouldn't have lied to us, and you know Bin Laden is going to target my Wal Mart.....

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 10:48 AM
Not run, but owned? What's the difference? As long as some publicly elected (or worse, appointed) committee is sitting at the top, it's still "run".


no, its owned. :D

the company i work in, is "owned" by a bigger swedish company but still run by its Norwegian leaders, the owner has the right to demand those who run the company to do what ever he wants, but usually this does not happen.

a state owned company is no different than a private owned company...not all owners care for running companies, you know..i think that even Paris Hilton owns a few companies, but it doesnt make them being better or worse, this depends completely on who runs them.

the only difference between a state owned company vs a company owned by a foreign or domestic rich dude is that a state owned company has "more owners"..meaning you and everyone else in your nation.

both private and state owners can pump in money into a failing company/bank, but only state has the means to do so indefinetly...and the state can have a goal bigger than only profit for the company it owns, the state actually can win more if it focuses on having the company it owns to serve the society, to fill the gaps where needed, even at the expense of the profits of the company it owns.

but a private owned company will never let his company go on a loss for the sake of the greater good, in this case to stop a crisis or to create more jobs by lending out money as there was no tomorow.

there are big differences between owned and run...i dont remember the statistics, but a large percentage of US companies are chinese owned but you would never know the difference, nor would you see anything special with a state owned company other than that it might be easier to get the loan you need...as the state owner can give that simple instruction to those who run the bank, "GET THE MONEY MOVNG!!".

in the 90's some of our banks got nationalised...you know, the fewest of us would know which ones if we wouldnt read newspapers explaing it, and when they went back into private hands...i never noticed, i actually got suprised to hear that it happened many years ago and that the goverments in all involved nations did make a profit in it too...which in turn ended up as improvements in schools, police and so on...

adamredwoods
04-30-2009, 11:19 AM
not run but own.

today, the strongest, most solid banks in the world are all Chinese, goverment owned banks, you can also see this in other nations where the banks that goverment has majority or full ownership in stand rock solid.

why?

becouse goverment owned bank is quaranteed to be solid by the nation, and nations do not go out of business, a nation cant run out of money either.



I think a nation can run out of money. Argentina had problems in the 90's ... any Argentines here expand on this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_economic_crisis_(1999-2002)

Basically, if investors lose confidence in your currency, it becomes less and less valued. Inflation runs rampant.

Chinese banks are doing well b/c investors like China, they're going through an economic expansion. Not because they're government owned.

Government owned banks will lead to corruption. Image if the last US president tried to privatize banks, what would people here on the boards think?

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 11:28 AM
cant run out of money, but can fare quite badly such as iceland has done...

nations can print more money if and when needed, but typically it is not needed as the knowledge of that the bank is backed up by a nation gives more than enough confidence for people and companies to trust their savings in them, and the knowledge of the impossibility to fail only becouse a percentage will not pay back their loans in time will allow the bank to lend money without the need of a safety buffer that other banks need.

but, even if it sounds like a perfect solution, it is not...nationally owned banks have a huge advantage over private owned banks, this ruins competition and without competition there will be no innovation or improvment.

so a nation should only own banks in certain, special times...like, now.
and only for as long as absolutely necessary.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 11:33 AM
Government owned banks will lead to corruption. Image if the last US president tried to privatize banks, what would people here on the boards think?

had he tried it 2-3 years ago, that would be considered as completely idiotic and dangerous, but had he done it the last months of his precidency, it might have saved his legacy and we might have remembered him as a better man than he deserves...

but it didnt happen and it wont happen...Obama/democrats do not have the balls to do it, and i fear that they will try every other method possible before considering it seriously...this will take time and cost money.

for me it doesnt matter...im happy with the economical crisis, im one of the very few ones i think, who actually hopes that it will last for some time to come too.

im making much more money now than before, by doing nothing special. :D

warmiak
04-30-2009, 12:17 PM
the only difference between a state owned company vs a company owned by a foreign or domestic rich dude is that a state owned company has "more owners"..meaning you and everyone else in your nation.



When was the last time you heard about major Soviet or Eastern European car/electronic or other companies ?

Believe it or not , they did exist back in the day and they produced a lot of ****** products which were not marketable anywhere beyond the Eastern block ...

What do you think made them so different and pathetically unproductive compared to companies like Intel or BMW ?

IMI
04-30-2009, 12:39 PM
in the 90's some of our banks got nationalised...you know, the fewest of us would know which ones if we wouldnt read newspapers explaing it, and when they went back into private hands...i never noticed, i actually got suprised to hear that it happened many years ago and that the goverments in all involved nations did make a profit in it too...which in turn ended up as improvements in schools, police and so on...

I've said it before and I'll say it again: What works in Europe does not necessarily work in the US. Our bumbling batch of buffoons in the upper echelons of our government are simply not capable of it. It's all politics, and politics stands in the way of everything every one of them does. Major decisions are made based on some idiot congressman voting on something because some other idiot congressman agreed to vote on his idiot idea later... and so on. Potentially good decisions are stalled because it could be politically damaging for just enough people to casue them to vote against, or to try to attach more idiocy to it to appease their own stupid agendas.

Someone, somewhere, at some time had the brilliant idea that the US federal government should be heavily involved in the mortgage industry. Epic fail. And most of us here still remember that shining example of government idiocy. Being that its effects are still being felt *everywhere* and it killed our housing industry and all. And alot of us aren't real ready to say, "sure, just take over the banks now, we know you can do it, we trust you..."

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 12:56 PM
When was the last time you heard about major Soviet or Eastern European car/electronic or other companies ?

Believe it or not , they did exist back in the day and they produced a lot of ****** products which were not marketable anywhere beyond the Eastern block ...

What do you think made them so different and pathetically unproductive compared to companies like Intel or BMW ?

im not disagreeing with you Warmiak.

and i think i even wrote just a moment ago that a state owned company would have advantages that would kill competition, which would kill innovation and improvement.

so, we do see on communism and state controlled stuff the same way, we are in agreement here.

but...nationalising banks, which i am for and you against, is not intented to be anything more than a quick and sure solution for a problem that is today, and once the problem is resolved (a couple of years) the banks would be auctioned back into private hands.

its like...you have a sinking, leaking boat...you can repair the leak with chewing gum and save the ship and yourself, but as soon as you get the boat ashore you replace the chewing gum with something better...nationally owned banks or other companies should only be a short, life saving operation done only when absolutely necessary.

contrary to me, while we agree on socialism and communism and its huge drawbacks, you are looking at it from a point of principle and im looking at it from a point of necessity.
meaning..i would save the boat with chewing gum even if it is a bad solution, you would not out of prinicple becouse a sinking boat deserves to sink, its built wrong and does not deserve to float.
id "save" the boat with chewing gum and then let those who have intrested to buy/repair the boat once i get it to land.

principles are good but not always necessary to follow...you always have to weigh the positives vs the negatives.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 01:03 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again: What works in Europe does not necessarily work in the US. Our bumbling batch of buffoons in the upper echelons of our government are simply not capable of it. It's all politics, and politics stands in the way of everything every one of them does.

you over estimate the talents of our leaders...they are just as lousy as yours.

all they need to do with the banks is to "KEEP THEIR HANDS OFF" and not run them, owning is enough to create stability and trust.

thats what they did over here...bought (i dont like the word "took", since it is misleading) over the banks, instructed them to lend out money and otherwise get the moneyflow moving and then the goverment just sat back and returned into internal political fights and juvenile namecalling, all the while the banks were run by bank managers just as before...

soon enough the problem was solved and the politicians sold their shares of the bank out to the private market...

its not more complicated than that...i feel as im trying to persuade a child to go to a dentist.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 01:09 PM
the radio is about the flu all the time...

we have a population of 5 million, we have tamiflu enough for 1.5 million, option to buy far more of it, and we expect a couple of hundred thousand tops to get sick...and people are panicking.

i wish i would have a deposit of mouthmasks to sell...now is the time. ;)

i just cant understand the panic..not in a rich nation.
its the poorer nations who will suffer where medicine is more difficult to get.

i mean..its good that nations prepare, but this panic among people??

IMI
04-30-2009, 01:38 PM
its not more complicated than that...i feel as im trying to persuade a child to go to a dentist.


Pete, it *IS* more complicated than that.
Why do I have to keep bringing this up - why does this keep getting ignored:
You say, "instructed them to lend out money".
That's what the Fed did with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac - instructed them to lend out money. And it didn't work out too well.

So the banks in the US get pwned by the Uncle Sam. Before you know it, it's business as usual again, right? Well... what about all those poor people who have no collateral, have insufficient income? Surely they too "deserve" a loan for a nice new car, home, or 72" widescreen LCD TV....
Right?
And you know, there will be more than enough politicians hoping to appease their less well-off voters, and, gosh-darnit, it's only FAIR that people with no money and no way to pay off a loan should be able to borrow money...
Wash, rinse, repeat? :confused:

cresshead
04-30-2009, 02:53 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=878826#post878826

adamredwoods
04-30-2009, 02:59 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=878826#post878826

Because this thread has the strangest title:
Hugh Jackman's Wolverine becomes swine flu casualty

Tell me, what in God's name does the title have to do with anything?????

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 03:04 PM
i hope they would have learned not to lend money to people they know cant pay back.
i just cant believe how they could be so stupid as to force banks to lend money to unsecure payers with bad economy...common sence should have prevented it.

the problem with the current situation is that good stable companies and businesses cant get loans either as the banks are on the "save" modus, building up a buffer for themselfs so that they can stand future losses better.

while this is common sence and understandable, it doesnt stop the crisis in any way..if anything it simply increases the speed of it.

the moneyflow stops at the banks..money in but not out, bail out money in but not out...what other solutions do we have, other than nationalisation?

only one...keep "bailing" them out, keep pushing money into the banks in a hope that some day soon they feel they have enough to start lending money again to companies and businesses in need.

nationalising would speed up this process as the "owner" could simply say "stop building buffer, start lending money".

but none of this will happen anyway...not in your nation...i dont mind, either...since i profit on a prolonged crisis, im just saying that it would be a solution..a quick fix for the problems.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 03:05 PM
sorry cress...ill stick to the flu from now on ;)

cresshead
04-30-2009, 03:06 PM
Because this thread has the strangest title:
Hugh Jackman's Wolverine becomes swine flu casualty

Tell me, what in God's name does the title have to do with anything?????

Hugh Jackman's Wolverine> latest film

swine flu> spread by human contact to contact

put them both together...will people not be going to the cinema's in great numbers due to the impending pandemic of swine flu as people are afriad they may get swine flu whilst in the cinema full of potential carriers...

so will that also effect the box office of the film and other latest films...


note within ALL this...i can't SEE any political undertones...

cresshead
04-30-2009, 03:13 PM
sorry cress...ill stick to the flu from now on ;)

cool..i was getting "sick"...cough cough...of havin to skip thru replies not around the actual topic...gave me quite a fever i can tell you!:D

i think i have some allergic reation to usa pol****s

"viral conversations that mutate into fractured poop" anyone?

OnlineRender
04-30-2009, 03:16 PM
how do you stop Swine FLU ? OINK-MENT :P

adamredwoods
04-30-2009, 03:18 PM
Swine flu responds to Tamiflu.... outbreak over.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWcd0Nbgc_R4&refer=home

cresshead
04-30-2009, 03:18 PM
how do you stop Swine FLU ? OINK-MENT :P

you mean Influenza Strain A sub strain H1N1 [new prefered name]

:D....make sound alike joke about THAT!:devil:

OnlineRender
04-30-2009, 03:23 PM
ohhh challenge i accept ! , how do you stop swine flu ? sub patch , mwhahah best i could do plus i kept in line with 3D aspect :) ill try and think of something more solid :)

cresshead
04-30-2009, 03:27 PM
Swine flu responds to Tamiflu.... outbreak over.


i would agree if we had enough Tamiflu or other anti virals to cover the population of planet earth, then anti virals can if given quickly to those infected be very succesful in treating the infected to make a good recovery.

sad to say we do not have enough...usa has 50million for it's population..last i heard usa has more than 50 million people however...
more like 210 million...are you lucky enough to have yor own stock at home?

u.k has 30 million for it's population of 60+million and hopes to ramp up stocks t 50 million...still 10 million short 'if' this thing goes pandemic.
india has 1 million for it's population of 1200 million...
w.h.o. has a stockpile of 5million 'just in case' to issue to countries that do not have good stocks.

so should we be so confident about the pandemic being "over" now?
if this thing hits india or china etc...they're in big potential trouble.

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 03:28 PM
Swine flu responds to Tamiflu.... outbreak over.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aWcd0Nbgc_R4&refer=home

not really...we knew it responds to tamiflu a long time ago, but only the rich nations have enough tamiflu on store...

this is why i didnt understand why the panic in rich nations..we have medicine against it, and if i get the flu ill propably try to avoid medicines just to toughen my own body against it..but i can do it becouse of the certainty that if it turns out to be REALLY bad, i can always get tamiflu.

but poorer nations have no choice...no medicine against it, they will still get infected and some, perhaps even many, will die.


we will see...swineflu has weakened from its original form and perhaps this is as bad as it gets...a virus does not seek to be as evil as possible, it mutates on different directions completely randomly and can just as easily become milder than stronger..

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 03:32 PM
as cress says...not enough for everyone.

still..not everyone will get infected, and not everyone will get sick...

so if we are looking at, say..10 percent sick, most rich nations will be just fine...India as pointed out, will not be fine.

but then again..it is more likely to spread to rich nations faster becouse we travel more...we will see.

cresshead
04-30-2009, 03:36 PM
as cress says...not enough for everyone.

still..not everyone will get infected, and not everyone will get sick...

so if we are looking at, say..10 percent sick, most rich nations will be just fine...India as pointed out, will not be fine.

but then again..it is more likely to spread to rich nations faster becouse we travel more...we will see.

yeah W.H.O are very busy trying to model how this strain works and what percentage get sick and what percentage of them get ill enough to need a course of antivirals to get them over it, also how it spreads and the percentage of carriers etc...hard stuff to work out and get accurate numbers on just yet.

OnlineRender
04-30-2009, 03:59 PM
< man flu right now "cant handle life , plus LW doing my head in , nothing aint going right "

*Pete*
04-30-2009, 04:16 PM
however...the positive is that medical and other critical services will function even in the poorer nations thanks to tamiflu, even if the patients cant be medicated they can propably still be kept alive by other means...

the one million doses in India for example, should secure a big part of the medical workers..for example.

in our richer nations we can afford to medicate just about anyone who gets sick...

its all very unfair, but not very dark and gloomy as it could have been or as it was with the past pandemies.

cresshead
04-30-2009, 04:32 PM
looking positive...
there's no 3rd world infection at all as yet...
we can cope just fine right now

let's hope this continues

Riff_Masteroff
04-30-2009, 06:45 PM
A good movie to watch while you are pondering the spread of swine flu: 'Death in Venice'

Its something like the swine flu outbreak (plague) but takes place in the 1600s. From an Amazon customer review: "This is not, without question, an easy film to watch. The dialogue is sparse and the music is basically limited to Mahler's gorgeous Adagietto from Symphony No. 5." The movie wasn't so graphic, but it was very powerful art. Also a good introduction to an emotional score.

IMI
04-30-2009, 06:51 PM
Don't start on THAT... please?

LOL!
You thought the "DEM" part meant democrat, didn't you? I had to think about that for a few minutes. Nope, that's not what I meant. It's called a "pandemic", right? It was a play on words on my part, as in, "the whole panic...oops, I mean pandemic...." Because I see it as more of a panic. See it now? :)

Tom Wood
05-01-2009, 04:54 AM
At the risk of repeating this joke since I didn't read the entire thread...

They said a black man would be president when pigs fly.

100 days in, swine flu. :rimshot:

...

I just read a review of Wolverine that I agree with. Another origin story. Bleah. I really dislike superhero/mutant/whatever origin stories. It's called 'backstory' and is left offscreen for a reason - it's tedious and boring. Pass.

BeeVee
05-01-2009, 02:04 PM
I met an epidemiologist at Schipol airport while waiting for a plane delayed by fog and I asked him what constituted an epidemic. He asked me how many people I thought, so I guessed at 1,000. He said nope, so I tried 100 and no came the answer again. I asked how many and he told me, in a whisper, that an epidemic was declared every time doctors reported more cases than they'd expect.

B

Tom Wood
05-01-2009, 03:14 PM
I dislike all the Spiderman movies too. :D Well, I dislike the first two, gave up after that. The only entertaining scenes in the first one were the ten minutes or so when he struggles with his new 'powers'.

Titus
05-01-2009, 03:17 PM
I met an epidemiologist at Schipol airport while waiting for a plane delayed by fog and I asked him what constituted an epidemic. He asked me how many people I thought, so I guessed at 1,000. He said nope, so I tried 100 and no came the answer again. I asked how many and he told me, in a whisper, that an epidemic was declared every time doctors reported more cases than they'd expect.

B

Yesterday our president, yes the president said this is an epidemic just for the mere fact the virus is new.

Tom Wood
05-01-2009, 05:00 PM
You mean... how Peter parker bacame Spiderman and his dealings with his new power?
The ORIGINS of Spiderman? :) Sounds like you might like the origins of Wolverine! :D

Only ten minutes of it! :D

Dark Knight was a bore too. :devil:

adamredwoods
05-01-2009, 06:26 PM
I dislike all the Spiderman movies too. :D Well, I dislike the first two, gave up after that. The only entertaining scenes in the first one were the ten minutes or so when he struggles with his new 'powers'.

I don't mind origin movies, but my god, hollywood has gone bonkers over them.

BTW-- (on topic)-- The Wolverine movie is not related to the comic, at least the Weapon X version written by the great Barry Windsor-Smith, that I know of.

From what I saw in the trailer... Wolverine gets turned into adamantium by choice AND gets to choose his own name??? (call me "Wolverine", baby!) How uninspiring. That's poor screenwriting, no conflict, no interest.

I'll pass.

Mike_RB
05-01-2009, 07:28 PM
teaser trailer for d-9 is out. None of our shots are in this one.

http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/district9/

cresshead
05-01-2009, 08:22 PM
d-9 looks cool...nice to see a non americano acent in a film

Mike_RB
05-01-2009, 08:59 PM
d-9 looks cool...nice to see a non americano acent in a film

Yeah, Sith A'freekin sounds cool.

Cageman
05-02-2009, 03:54 AM
Uhm...ok...

So... what about the movie then? Anyone seen it yet?

cresshead
05-02-2009, 05:44 AM
Uhm...ok...

So... what about the movie then? Anyone seen it yet?
wolfy or D-9?

not seen either..not seen xmen 2 or 3 yet either...x-men 1 was enough i think.

IMI
05-02-2009, 06:48 AM
I'm not even interested. Super Hero movies just bore me. WOW! factor 3D animation for its own sake does little for me. It's technically impressive, and I can appreciate it on that level, but not enough to make me like a movie just because it has great 3D in it, and I've always found the whole "super hero" (or super villain) idea to be kind of silly. I never read comic books as a kid, either, in case anyone wonders. ;)

I did really like The Dark Knight, but that was the exception to the rule, and I had to be forced to watch it - wasn't my idea. ;)

Yes, I did see the first x-men movie. Not my thing.

adamredwoods
05-02-2009, 11:33 AM
I'm not a huge X-Men fan.... but... I'd like to know HOW you can determine the quality of the screenplay JUST from the trailer? No conflict, no interest? What? Next thing you'll say you listen to critics and they KNOW what they're talking about. :cursin:

How many superhero origins are interesting because they get to choose to have their powers? (hehe, I'll take the adamantium.... and the claws... oh and how about a little xray vision!) Superman, Spiderman... Iron man was closest to choosing his own destiny, but even he had to create a device or he'd die.

I've seen enough trailers and enough movies to know how they coincide. it's standard Hollywood playbook.

Cageman
05-02-2009, 11:58 AM
Cress: I was thinking about Wolverine...

I love superhero movies... But that's because I've read alot of Spiderman and X-men when I was young. Some of the superheroes have some really silly powers, but non the less they make for some cool action. :)

Cageman
05-02-2009, 12:01 PM
I did really like The Dark Knight, but that was the exception to the rule, and I had to be forced to watch it - wasn't my idea. ;)

Yes, I did see the first x-men movie. Not my thing.

I would say that Batman (at lest the two new movies) isn't really a superhero... just a guy with alot of training and some high-tech stuff to help him out.

Iron Man is somewhat the same... no real superpowers, but high-tech stuff that allows him to do the things he do.

*Pete*
05-03-2009, 10:02 AM
looks like the flu was just a scare..nothing worse than we seen before.
it is now expected to be just as contageous and lethal as the normal seasonal flu...

it is good that the world health org acted as they did, its good excercise..but they and the media should have been more clear on that this is not necessarily going to be a worst case scenario and could very likely become as it became..a standard scenario, a typical, seasonal flu.

IMI
05-03-2009, 10:07 AM
it is good that the world health org acted as they did, its good excercise..but they and the media should have been more clear on that this is not necessarily going to be a worst case scenario and could very likely become as it became..a standard scenario, a typical, seasonal flu.


I don't think it's good the way they acted at all. And then you have things like Joe Biden telling people not to travel and had to be "corrected" by the White House PR people.
Surely you've heard about the story of the boy who cried wolf. Every time something like this happens and the WHO and the media freak out, it lessens the possibility of them being taken seriously when a *real* problem comes along.
Same thing with all those ridiculous terrorist alert levels they used to announce - when they were still common, who was actually worrying about it?

To be fair, Obama was at least telling people be concerned but don't panic, as were some of the people on the TV news, but the reactions of some were just insane, irresponsible, and extremely counter-productive. There were something like 200 schools closed in Texas, creating a hardship for parents who had to figure out what to do about their kids and putting a dent in the local economy, all for no reason. Irrational fear created by people acting irresponsibly with too much ability to do serious damage.

*Pete*
05-03-2009, 10:43 AM
yeah, and as i wrote earlier...Egypt killed off all their 300.000 pigs, to prevent the flu from spreading, even if its doesnt come from pigs and no egyptian had gotten sick yet.

Panic is just that..irrational fear which leads to actions...any action, often not thought through actions.

over here also some politcians were explaining about "worst case" scenarios..and i was thinking "what for?"...why at all even mention a worst case scenario when a worst case scenario is not a likely one...when a virus has killed 100 of our 600.000.000.000 people from the planet, is this when we should start considering a worst case scenario?

when the world health org raises the alarm from rate "4" to "5" all it means is that it has spread from one continent to another, as from the Americas to Europe, it still could be just a hundred sick in total but it sounds like imminent nuclear war, defcom 5 comes to mind.

i do not have so much problem with the world health org, but more with the media...becouse the media "threat level 5" sounds better than "one infected in Europe as well".

that the world health org. followed this virus and organised a global network and prepared a defence against it is very good...it was fast and responsive, and after a few more tries it will be faster.

its just the way they communicated to the outside world that bothers me...

cresshead
05-03-2009, 10:52 AM
that the world health org. followed this virus and organised a global network and prepared a defence against it is very good...it was fast and responsive, and after a few more tries it will be faster.

its just the way they communicated to the outside world that bothers me...

the results they obtained were good though...it looks to be under control which was always the 'goal' so as long as you 'get there' all's good except for the piggy's in egypt and so on...

this isn't 'over' btw...it's seemingly under countrol right now so good news.
these do however come and go in waves..so don't count it out just yet.
dn't get sloppy in the way you handle sneezing etc...

IMI
05-03-2009, 11:11 AM
dn't get sloppy in the way you handle sneezing etc...


Well I hope it ends soon because I much prefer a sloppy sneezing society, and I really miss it myself.

*Pete*
05-03-2009, 11:46 AM
.it's seemingly under countrol right now so good news.

its not under control...these things rarely can get under control anyway becouse many can carry the virus without symptoms but still able to infect.

what happened though, is that the virus itself is simply not as strong as it was thought to be, it will spread around the globe just as any other virus. but it wont be any more dangerous either...not one of the actions taken has accelerated or decelerated the spread of the virus, nor have we done anything to contribute for it getting weaker.

you will propably see that next month or two months from now, we will have tens or hundreds of millions of people who got sick and some tens of thousands of dead, but this happens every year.

nothing compared to the big ones that took the lifes of a third of Europe (plague) or killed 20-100 million worldwide.
either way...us in the north are well set against these too, since historically we are more or less immune to them (not genetically i think, but becouse clean drinking water, cold and other geographical advantages).

*Pete*
05-03-2009, 11:48 AM
i didnt get sick last year, or the year before...its been a long time since i got sick now, so i hope i get this one, atleast.

as long as you survive (99 percent of us will live), these viruses strenghten us a lot for the future.

doimus
05-03-2009, 12:19 PM
yeah, and as i wrote earlier...Egypt killed off all their 300.000 pigs, to prevent the flu from spreading, even if its doesnt come from pigs and no egyptian had gotten sick yet.

Not only it does not come from pigs, it's the complete opposite!

Apparently, a man in Canada who returned from vacation in Mexico got infected. Next day at work he infected few of the residents there. Funny part is - he works at the pig farm!
Now, isn't THAT ironic! Pigs contracting the swine flu from humans!
I really wish somebody sues the World on behalf of pigs.

PS: Both the man and the pigs are recovering nicely.

manholoz
05-03-2009, 04:28 PM
Feels bad to bring Mexico to the front page news from something like that. We got a laugh at mad cows in Great Britain, avian flu in Asia, now that we have pig influenza, and we're giving it to the world, I'ld rather have taco or tequila or even seniorita diplomacy any day.

*Pete*
05-03-2009, 04:32 PM
yeah..the three nations that i consider my home are all famous for good things, Blonde women, strong men and alcohol.

nothing bad from our part of the world, no... :D

Besides Manholoz..the pigflu wont be remembered too long time, you will see.

Tom Wood
05-03-2009, 08:37 PM
Okay, so this thread inspired me to make this cartoon (http://www.wendelbrume.com/2009/05/03/superhero-origins/). I hope you're all happy. :D

DiedonD
05-04-2009, 01:12 AM
Okay, so this thread inspired me to make this cartoon (http://www.wendelbrume.com/2009/05/03/superhero-origins/). I hope you're all happy. :D

Excellent point! :thumbsup: Bravo!

But since you were already there doing it with your voice for all your characters, you couldve pitched ones voice lower, and the next voice higher! So as you would have the chance to act out your characters and with a different voice aswell!

Audacity could do it for you? Its free!

The script is so funny though :D

IMI
05-04-2009, 01:54 AM
Okay, so this thread inspired me to make this cartoon (http://www.wendelbrume.com/2009/05/03/superhero-origins/). I hope you're all happy. :D


Very funny, Tom, Very good. :thumbsup:

I think your bass is still a bit too boomy though, as a minor critique. I have some pretty powerful speakers and a great sound card with great EQ and effects software, but the preset I made for general internet stuff has alot of the bass filtered out, and your vids still rattle my desk, even just the talking.

Not that I'm complaining, don't get me wrong, but I remember a while ago you said you were having trouble getting your bass under control. New mixer you were using or something like that. :)

cresshead
05-04-2009, 05:15 AM
china's being really cautious...'anyone' with a mexican passport arriving in china is put into quarantine in a hotel in hong kong and held there...the mexican govt are sending a plane to bring these 300+ people back home...

DiedonD
05-04-2009, 05:29 AM
china's being really cautious...'anyone' with a mexican passport arriving in china is put into quarantine in a hotel in hong kong and held there...the mexican govt are sending a plane to bring these 300+ people back home...

Hell yeah! A free 5 star hotel :D

*Pete*
05-04-2009, 05:44 AM
the war on terror, global warming, economical crisis and a new pandemic "killer" virus...all at the same time, whats next??...alien invasion?

DiedonD
05-04-2009, 05:53 AM
the war on terror, global warming, economical crisis and a new pandemic "killer" virus...all at the same time, whats next??...alien invasion?

All an all just for us to loose focus of the real power behind throne of any president!

And of course Im talking about the money rich, elite, secretive people, that use all means to get richer!

Theyve come to light and ever since so many things have been thrown to us, just to forget about them, and re-fool ourselves that what is is what you get!

Should we let go of that knowledge about them or not?

For the imposing fear sake?

SBowie
05-04-2009, 06:29 AM
the war on terror, global warming, economical crisis and a new pandemic "killer" virus...all at the same time, whats next??...alien invasion?Global dimming:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming

News media motto for the new millennium: "If it ain't global, it ain't news ... "

*Pete*
05-04-2009, 07:03 AM
News media motto for the new millennium: "If it ain't global, it ain't news ... "

so a local alien invasion would only be notified in the local newspapers, the pages after the sports.

Tom Wood
05-04-2009, 07:37 AM
DiedonD - I've tried the pitch/formant modulators and they just don't sound right to me. Plus it adds a ton of work to a short-turnaround type project. I'll try to 'act' better with my own voice. Thanks!

IMI - Bummer to hear that, but I appreciate the feedback. My good speaker set died and I replaced it with a cheap set, no bass at all. I'll set up my studio monitors and give it a listen.

As an aside, this was the first time I was able to figure out how to use the LW UV Viewer in Mirage, create a PNG image based on that, and then map it back to the character - for the mask. Way cool, and opens up some new possibilities.

Mike_RB
05-04-2009, 07:37 AM
so a local alien invasion would only be notified in the local newspapers, the pages after the sports.

The real danger is the chemtrails. Nothing else matters.

IMI
05-04-2009, 01:04 PM
so a local alien invasion would only be notified in the local newspapers, the pages after the sports.

Or perhaps cleverly buried *within* the sports page. Hide in plain sight and all that. Ever think about that possibility?
Some of those sports stars definitely look like they COULD be aliens, or at least being treated with super-alien extraterrestrial steroids. ;)

mattclary
05-05-2009, 01:21 PM
the war on terror, global warming, economical crisis and a new pandemic "killer" virus...all at the same time, whats next??...alien invasion?

Makes you want to start reading the bible for a heads up, huh? ;)

Larry_g1s
05-05-2009, 02:09 PM
Or a ouija board. :thumbsup:One has 100% prediction accurace, the other doesn't. I'll let you guess which one. ;) Just a hint...(it isn't the ouija board).

If you seriously want to know, I can give you ample evidence. This is only for those that are serious to the question. It's not difficult, it's just one's willingness.

cresshead
05-05-2009, 02:57 PM
US resident dies from swine flu

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73185&d=1241557091

A woman from Texas has become apparently the first US resident to die from swine flu.

In a statement, the Texas Department of State Health services said it was "reporting the first death of a Texas resident with H1N1 [swine] flu.
"A woman from Cameron County who had chronic underlying health conditions died earlier this week," it said.
It is the second swine flu fatality outside Mexico, after a Mexican toddler died of the virus in the US in April.

The World Health Organization (WHO) said earlier that 1,490 swine flu cases had been verified in 20 countries.
After Mexico, the US has seen the greatest number of laboratory-confirmed infections, at 403.
The WHO urged nations to remain vigilant, saying a global pandemic remained a threat.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:01 PM
I bet the folks who were around in 1918 thought it was the end of the world too...
and that was without today's media. Wonder if we can pull up how many Bible's were sold or stolen then?

1,490 cases...1 confirmed death in Texas (of a citizen)...
hardly should make one panic.

Now...if we were talking about highway deaths from dumb drivers...
Now THERE's a Pandemic...er...Dumbdemic? Either way.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:01 PM
Oh...and WASH YER FREAKIN' HANDS people.

Geez.

cresshead
05-05-2009, 03:08 PM
I bet the folks who were around in 1918 thought it was the end of the world too...
and that was without today's media. Wonder if we can pull up how many Bible's were sold or stolen then?

1,490 cases...1 confirmed death in Texas (of a citizen)...
hardly should make one panic.

Now...if we were talking about highway deaths from dumb drivers...
Now THERE's a Pandemic...er...Dumbdemic? Either way.

yeah had some bible bashers around going door to door last week.
they're just opportunists hoping to pick up some new recruits.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:22 PM
Exactly...
I come from a pretty religious sect and let me tell you,
we had to read that thing up and down and sideways as kids.
Here's what they ignore...

Look in your food cabinets...got some? How about the neighbors? Friends? etc?
If the majority do...it's not the end.

Pestilence...Ok, swine flu is now spread out amongst .00001% of the population of this planet, roughly...
not the end.

What it is, is the end of free thinking and free will.
This much is true.
If they say it on tv, it must be true.
If they preach it on the pulpit and my money's been taken, it must be true.

Nobody's talking about the facts and figuring things out for themselves.
That's what's staggering here.

*Pete*
05-05-2009, 03:37 PM
US resident dies from swine flu

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=73185&d=1241557091

A woman from Texas has become apparently the first US resident to die from swine flu.

In a statement, the Texas Department of State Health services said it was "reporting the first death of a Texas resident with H1N1 [swine] flu.
"A woman from Cameron County who had chronic underlying health conditions died earlier this week," it said.
It is the second swine flu fatality outside Mexico, after a Mexican toddler died of the virus in the US in April.

The World Health Organization (WHO) said earlier that 1,490 swine flu cases had been verified in 20 countries.
After Mexico, the US has seen the greatest number of laboratory-confirmed infections, at 403.
The WHO urged nations to remain vigilant, saying a global pandemic remained a threat.

1 dead out of 403 sick gives you a 0.25 percent lethality rate....it is also unlikely that the flu will infect everyone of us, so if one of four gets sick, out of 6 billion people we are looking at somewhere around 4 million dead...while it sounds a high number, it is actually quite normal for a virus.

we have had really dangerous viruses previously with lethality rates up to 30 percent, so the quarter a percent swineflu lethality rate just fails to impress me...


as for predictions, bible or ouija board...i prefer the old fashioned way of dropping buttered sandwiches from shoulder height, if it falls down with the buttered side towards the ground, the day will just suck..if the buttered side is facing up, i go play lottery.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:39 PM
Example of paranoia...

"Wolverine" is first major swine flu victim...

Reality = 87 million first weekend.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:40 PM
Try doing to lethal rate check using only healthy specimens that died...
it gets lower and lower.

lwaddict
05-05-2009, 03:41 PM
I WILL try the butter thing though...
at least if I'm wrong, I'll know that I looked dumb doing it to begin with and won't feel bad in the long run.

And it's hard to get mad when someone challenges your morning toast. :P

DiedonD
05-06-2009, 03:43 AM
Howcome there are more deaths when now theres a vaccine?!