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cresshead
04-21-2009, 12:09 AM
http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=070018

bingo-tastic news! :D
looking forward to see what arrives in zbrush 4 now that they have finally got some competition with 3dcoat and mudbox 2009

jin choung
04-21-2009, 12:23 AM
EEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! !!

i mean. cool. cool.

no wonder 3.5 was takin' so long. but man, they've got a lot to make up to to the mac folks.

but wowowowow... free again! as a pc user, i fing love those guys. no no, not like that. i mean, i want to have sex with them.

man... i'm hopin' for voxel modeling. it seems to me that pixols are a bastardized version of that already... if they go whole hog and keep the workflow they have now with full voxels... man.

my hope - pix has been watching the competition and they're gonna bring on the hurt. scorched earth baby....

jin

cresshead
04-21-2009, 12:26 AM
EEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! !!

jin

:lol:

you like zbrush then!

only 3 or 4 months to go..and we should see some sneak peek vids before siggy i'm hoping too!

Hopper
04-21-2009, 12:27 AM
EEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!! !!

jin

:lol:

Now is that a squeel of a stuck pig, or a giddy little school girl?

geothefaust
04-21-2009, 12:34 AM
I hate to be the naysayer here - But I've already sold my license not more then two weeks ago, to this day. I got tired of not having more modern features that I could get from a less expensive program; 3DCoat. Not to mention 3DCoats interface is much easier to remember between sessions. Zbrush, I had to relearn everything. While it wasn't *that* difficult, it was annoying at best.

Anyway, that said, it'll be interesting to see what they pop out. Glad to see the upgrade is free. That's the least they could do for those waiting for 3.5 which was supposed to launch months ago.


Let the hype begin.

IMI
04-21-2009, 12:36 AM
Man, they don't even say what's gonna be new.
I hope they fix some of the UV weirdness, and at least put in the option for more normal viewport navigation.
Would also be nice if the simple act of importing/exporting without doing anything else at all, wouldn't round out your OBJ.

IMI
04-21-2009, 12:38 AM
How can they keep putting out free upgrades like that? Not that I'm complaining, but do they print their own money or something? Maybe ZBrush is just a front for something else.. ;)

lwanmtr
04-21-2009, 12:39 AM
We'll see if they actually deliver....but given there are no feature lists or anything like that..

Many people are still waiting for 3.5..and a multitude of bug fixes

jin choung
04-21-2009, 12:40 AM
I hate to be the naysayer here - But I've already sold my license not more then two weeks ago, to this day. I got tired of not having more modern features that I could get from a less expensive program; 3DCoat. Not to mention 3DCoats interface is much easier to remember between sessions. Zbrush, I had to relearn everything. While it wasn't *that* difficult, it was annoying at best.

Anyway, that said, it'll be interesting to see what they pop out. Glad to see the upgrade is free. That's the least they could do for those waiting for 3.5 which was supposed to launch months ago.


Let the hype begin.

were you using zb on the mac? most negative things i've heard about zb were from the mac.

never tried 3dc but most peeps have said that the sculpting feels more clunky there.

anyhoo to each his own.

i was tempted by 3dc's voxel sculpt.... but now i'm thinkin'... i'm hopin'... zb may come a trumpin'!

jin

cresshead
04-21-2009, 12:43 AM
I hate to be the naysayer here - But I've already sold my license not more then two weeks ago, to this day. I got tired of not having more modern features that I could get from a less expensive program; 3DCoat. Not to mention 3DCoats interface is much easier to remember between sessions. Zbrush, I had to relearn everything. While it wasn't *that* difficult, it was annoying at best.

Anyway, that said, it'll be interesting to see what they pop out. Glad to see the upgrade is free. That's the least they could do for those waiting for 3.5 which was supposed to launch months ago.


Let the hype begin.

I keep on hearing good things about 3dcoat..yet to see many great sculpts with it or used in other apps like lightwave, maya and max...hoping that version 3 gets enough of a userbase boost that we see some top artists take up 3dcoat and maybe digital tutors or kurv studio's create training for it.

currently zbrush is king of the castle and mudbox starting to snap it it's ankles.

2009 could be a defining year for sculpting programs.

jin choung
04-21-2009, 12:46 AM
How can they keep putting out free upgrades like that? Not that I'm complaining, but do they print their own money or something? Maybe ZBrush is just a front for something else.. ;)

actually, they may be playing a pretty smart game.

valve did an interesting study where they showed sales spikes when they supported their products (like TF and L4D) with free updates.

considering the price range zb sits at, it might make a real killing from just the sales spike alone, not to mention the good word of mouth and good will from the user base.

it really might be a case of where they examine the pros and cons and they actually come out ahead from doin' what they're doin'.

jin

OnlineRender
04-21-2009, 12:50 AM
ye baby

jin choung
04-21-2009, 12:51 AM
I keep on hearing good things about 3dcoat..yet to see many great sculpts with it or used in other apps like lightwave, maya and max...hoping that version 3 gets enough of a userbase boost that we see some top artists take up 3dcoat and maybe digital tutors or kurv studio's create training for it.

currently zbrush is king of the castle and mudbox starting to snap it it's ankles.

2009 could be a defining year for sculpting programs.

yah.

zb has prestige projects to boast about gettin' a ton of play at ILM. hell, modo never made me bat an eyelash but when i found out fing PIXAR was using it, i sat up.

mudbox has weta pedigree and gonna get featured big time in james cam's avatar....

but i'm still bettin' zb's gonna come up best in class when the dust settles post siggy.

jin

geothefaust
04-21-2009, 12:54 AM
Hey Jin, :)


I was using it on a PC. While it's a cool program, it just wasn't up to snuff on a lot of stuff (UVs and texture painting, for example).


As for 3DCoat... Seriously give it a try man. I don't think you'll regret it. I honestly thought it was vaporware for the longest time... I tried it now and again, but, it wasn't there. But v3 is shaping up to be fan-effing-tastic! No jokin'...

The poly sculpting tools are very much like ZB/MB in every way, except it's easier to control your brushes, and you have more customization that can be done then ZB on each one.

The voxel sculpting, well, it's a little weird at first, but once you settle in after a session, you'll really see the power in it. I really, really love voxel sculpting in it. It's a LOT like clay. One thing I really like about it, is when you're done sculpting and you quadrangulate the mesh (with or without symmetry, your choice!), you can pick how high/low you want the mesh to be. Anything higher detail then you select will be sent to your normal map or displacement map (again, your choice!). Oh and one more thing about voxel sculpting, you can sculpt with spline guides, or 3D objects as brushes. So you could essentially create body part collections and tack that **** on with ease, if you so desire.

Then for the direct painting tools, it's BADASS! Top shelf **** here. It's very much like Body Paint or Deep Exploration, whatever it's called. Except I don't have to shell out a ton of cash.


My only beef with 3DCoat is rotating a brush like the Drag Tool in ZB, without a 3D Space mouse. With one though, Wowhoaweewahh!


I could rant all night about it man, it sold me. There are many more features and functions, but I'll stop there unless someone asks. :)

IMI
04-21-2009, 12:54 AM
actually, they may be playing a pretty smart game.

valve did an interesting study where they showed sales spikes when they supported their products (like TF and L4D) with free updates.

considering the price range zb sits at, it might make a real killing from just the sales spike alone, not to mention the good word of mouth and good will from the user base.

it really might be a case of where they examine the pros and cons and they actually come out ahead from doin' what they're doin'.

jin


Ah, I see.
Well, I do hope they come out ahead. I love ZBrush, and would love to see them not lose out to Autodesk and Mudbox. 'cause you know, I can envision them really trying to push Mudbox on studios already using Max and Maya with Zbrush.

I just hope they make the workflow a little smoother and do something about materials and overall texture painting. Shouldn't have to jump through hoops to paint on a OBJ model with overlapping UVs or UVs out of the 0-1 range, and it should be easier to extract good normal and disp maps.
I see no reason why the V should be upside down either. That's just annoying.

sammael
04-21-2009, 02:44 AM
http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/showthread.php?t=070018

bingo-tastic news! :D
looking forward to see what arrives in zbrush 4 now that they have finally got some competition with 3dcoat and mudbox 2009

Wow awesome, cant wait! Didnt expect this so soon its a plesant suprise.

AbnRanger
04-21-2009, 07:50 AM
3DC is coming on strong though, and the UI being developed for it (similar to Photoshop CS3-4) is as user-friendly as Mudbox. I think ZBrush is safe among its current userbase, but both Mudbox and 3DC will start hording the market for new users.
When you buy an academic license of Maya or Max, you get Mudbox (and MotionBuilder too, for what it's worth) bundled with it...so obviously they are targeting students/new users). It's SSSSOOOOO easy to get up and running with Mudbox, whereas ZBrush's UI and workflow is so foreign, and that's going to prove to be its Achille's Heel.

3DC's voxel sculpting, CUDA support, Space Pilot/Navigator (still the ONLY sculpting program to do so) support and re-topology tools are either cutting edge or industry-first features. Put that together with it's superior painting tools, a Photoshop-familiar UI, and significantly lower price, and 3DC makes the most sense to those new to sculpting/painting programs.

gordonrobb
04-21-2009, 08:07 AM
I for one cant' wait. I love Zbrush, have found 3.1 (PC) excellent. The retopology tool can be a little bit stupid sometimes, but I love it. And for another free upgrade, it can only be fantastic. Here's hoping that they actully deliver it on time though.

SaturnX
04-21-2009, 10:04 AM
Hopefully zb4 and Core will be best buddies.

wacom
04-21-2009, 10:05 AM
Well, I was going to sell my zb 3.5 license, and I still am 99.9% sure I'm going too (unless zb 4 is like mudbox 1.x and 3DC-3 combined- doubtful).

Why wait- just to see if the features are BS and if there is any upgrade to the UI etc. I figure if it looks good I'll wait until a week before the release to bait somebody into purchasing it and get a higher price. If it looks like BS I'll sell sooner as planned.

I literally haven't opened zbrush in...I think six months (maybe more) and it just sits and rots on my desktop. 3DC I open MUCH more often. Regardless of the sculpting (it's good in 3.x) I need good painting, normal mapping and bump tools (hard to beat the easy to use 3DC vector displacement) far more than I need to create a mesh so dense it almost breaks even XSI on load.

Sorry- I didn't even have to live too long between the zb 2.x and 3.x cycle and I'm not willing to sit on my hands through to the 4 cycle. The fact that it's free doesn't help me- in fact it worries me more than anything. Besides...seems like Mudbox is putting downward pressure on zbrush and 3DC is attacking from the bottom (though I notice a lot of game studio peeps using the program on the forums).

The ui in zb is a waste of time and money IMHO. They better bring out something as revolutionary as zb 2 was when it came out...

((((EDIT))))) OK just looked- it's been 8 months since I even launched ZB 3.x! Roughly the time I bought 3DC!

adamredwoods
04-21-2009, 01:39 PM
I'm looking forward to the 3DCoat upgrade. Does anyone know when it'll come out?

geothefaust
04-21-2009, 01:48 PM
Andrew has said May. He's still working on the interface, it's shaping up nicely so far.

akademus
04-21-2009, 02:14 PM
How can they keep putting out free upgrades like that? Not that I'm complaining, but do they print their own money or something? Maybe ZBrush is just a front for something else.. ;)

I was wondering the same thing when ZB3 got out. When you think of it, not every studio has Maya or XSI or so, but I strongly believe every serious place has at least one copy of Zbrush. And that is a lot of copies. Free upgrades keeps old costumers but also attract the new ones, which attract new ones, which keeps sales linearly growing.

Thumbs up and I can't wait to see it. New Wacom and a new Zbrush, who cares about recession year :D

cresshead
04-21-2009, 02:23 PM
also announced today>>
http://www.digitaltutors.com/store/product.php?productid=3623

http://www.digitaltutors.com/dtp/zbrush/characterSceneDev/pagebanner.jpg



http://www.digitaltutors.com/store/images_details/d_2244.jpg

http://www.digitaltutors.com/store/images_details/d_2248.jpg



using zbrush and maya but it's quite good even for non maya folks as it's got good workflow training.

The Dommo
04-21-2009, 02:33 PM
wtf? FREE?? how?!
Well you guys are probably right about how and why. Crazy but I'm not complaining :)

hrgiger
04-21-2009, 05:29 PM
Well, I've got nothing to lose to check it out, I own zbrush. I haven't checked in on 3D Coat in a while, I'll do that later too.

Magnus81
04-25-2009, 07:52 PM
The voxel sculpting is amazing, the only problem with it is that it relies in NVIDIA's CUDA technology. I don't know if you guys heard, but NVIDIA announced that they planned on killing CUDA's development soon. Not sure I want to get involved in a technology that won't be supported anymore. Just my two cents!

jin choung
04-25-2009, 08:25 PM
yeah but it might get canned for that OPENAL standard for gpu processing....

if they can cuda, it'll be replaced with something that can probably just be dropped in place.

jin

kfinla
04-25-2009, 08:44 PM
I'm hoping we see voxel sculpting in Zbrush 4 and some decent Ambient occlusion generation. The thing is, if there is voxel sculpting it will most likely be a new "mode" since your vertex id's are probably out the window using voxels. You'll also need some killer re-topology tools to go with it.

On the mac side Zb 3.12 is a great sculpting app, better features, AO, multiple maps, new brushes, real perspective, and can handle far heavier meshes (3x) than 3.1 (pc). But the bugs (hopefully gone monday when 3.12B comes out) keep it from being a production app. If you can't generate usable maps with it, it has very limited use.

Silkrooster
04-25-2009, 10:50 PM
yeah but it might get canned for that OPENAL standard for gpu processing....

if they can cuda, it'll be replaced with something that can probably just be dropped in place.

jin
I think your right. Too many relying on it already. never heard of OPENAL but i assume that is open source.

Sonk
04-26-2009, 02:01 AM
I don't know if you guys heard, but NVIDIA announced that they planned on killing CUDA's development soon.

Link please? sounds like FUD otherwise.


yeah but it might get canned for that OPENAL standard for gpu processing....

if they can cuda, it'll be replaced with something that can probably just be dropped in place.

jin


OpenAL == Open Audio Library..has little to do with gpu processing. i think you meant OpenCL...which looks nice on paper but i don't trust Khronos after the long delay with OpenGL 3.0(and they didn't do much with it in the end).

jin choung
04-26-2009, 02:20 AM
OpenAL == Open Audio Library..has little to do with gpu processing. i think you meant OpenCL...which looks nice on paper but i don't trust Khronos after the long delay with OpenGL 3.0(and they didn't do much with it in the end).


yah. you're right. i get the acronym soup all mixed up.

here's a press release on cgfocus today:

http://www.cgfocus.com/news/story/4140

jin

radams
04-26-2009, 05:31 AM
The voxel sculpting is amazing, the only problem with it is that it relies in NVIDIA's CUDA technology. I don't know if you guys heard, but NVIDIA announced that they planned on killing CUDA's development soon. Not sure I want to get involved in a technology that won't be supported anymore. Just my two cents!

Well, from reading info from Nvidia, and others...OpenCL will be in addition too C for Cuda...remember Cuda is an API and Hardware.
OpenCL was partially developed from C for Cuda...and will be released on Nvidia products first thou any OpenCL process/application should also work with ATI's products in the future...

Nvidia has stated that it still also plans to develop C for Cuda...along with some proprietary elements in OpenCL.

So Your investment in Cuda based GPU's is safe...and will only be more powerful in the future....and most likely most Cuda based apps or acceleration will easily be portable to OpenCL....and may also just work without being ported, unless you want that to also work on ATI GPU's then you'll need to port to OpenCL and recompile....

So don't fear Cuda is still here...and will be for awhile...and your acceleration from it will only get better and better.

Cheers,

Sande
04-26-2009, 06:43 AM
never tried 3dc but most peeps have said that the sculpting feels more clunky there.

Yep, I use them both. I tried to sculpt with 3D Coat for some time, but ZBrush just feels and works a bit better in sculpting - not that you couldn't sculpt with 3DC, though.

I mainly use 3D Coat for retopology now and that is one area Pixology really should focus on. There is a bunch of useless crap and marketing features on ZB, but one of the key areas in production like retopology is still an awful, buggy, hack. The other awful hack is how importing a new base mesh with a new topology works... Grrrr!

Magnus81
04-26-2009, 01:57 PM
I had read about CUDA suppossed death on www.MaximumPC.com. It was about a month ago or two that I read the article, but that was the last I heard. If you say CUDA is still around for a while, then you probably know more than me. I certainly hope they continue to support it, the concept is fantastic. I've heard of the term OpenCL, but didn't know what it was.

I mainly use 3D Coat for retopology now and that is one area Pixology really should focus on.
I completely agree. ZB should focus on that area. Those features in 3DC look incredible. Here's hoping for it.:thumbsup:

Magnus81
04-26-2009, 02:03 PM
Here's a link to the original article I read 1-12-09. After rereading it I realized I was mistaken.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/columns/nvidia_it%E2%80%99s_time_kill_cuda

And here's a newer article on the subject 4-22-09
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/news/nvidia_releases_opencl_driver_sdk

cresshead
04-26-2009, 02:07 PM
i think zbrush should focus on being 'inventive' that's what they're strongest at, let the other apps try n copy what they do a year or more later.

and in many cases the opposition have yet to come up with any answer at all.

radams
04-29-2009, 08:18 PM
Hi All,

If you have some concerns in regards to OpenCL/Cuda...
Check out the link below:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/cuda_opencl.html

OpenCL is just one of several languages that will work with the CUDA Platform.

Cheers,

Ray Adams

cresshead
04-29-2009, 08:33 PM
just been watching this set of free training 'how to' vids>>

http://www.pixologic.com/zclassroom/homeroom/

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=72999&d=1241058789