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View Full Version : 9.6 and memory usage



monfoodoo
04-09-2009, 07:56 PM
i was looking at the statistics in layout and was wondering if this looks right.I,m running 2 gigs.
object memory=390.2M
Free Memory=100.3M+2645M pagefile
Polygons=2149630
Layout could not load from modeler twice do to a lack of memory.I,ve never had that happen in 8.5.Any thoughts?

IMI
04-09-2009, 08:30 PM
Well for one thing, 2 GB is nowhere near enough to be doing anything complex in any 3D app. You really do need more. And two million polys is pushing it.
Also, if you have any textures on the object, LW uses about ten times the amount of memory for each to render as the texture itself, yet that information is not accounted for in the render window. So for example, if you have a 5 MB bitmap, it's using 50 MB in RAM.
I don't know if the same is applied to object memory though, but it seems it could be. Layout is loading it with the intent of rendering it, so maybe there's something it's doing with the RAM that it wouldn't have to do in Modeler. Just speculation.
Are you saying you tried this particular object in 8.5? Or just in general you never had out of memory errors with 8.5?
But 2 million+ polygons is really pushing it on a system with only 2 GB RAM. You have to figure, your OS is eating some of that too, not to mention any other services or background programs.

EDIT:
I've done a few things in Layout with well above 2 million polygons, but with 8 GB RAM in my system, and haven't had problems loading such objects.
If you haven't already, you ought to try loading that same object into LW 8.5 on the same machine and see what happens.

akademus
04-10-2009, 03:39 AM
Even my laptop struggles sometimes with 4GB of ram. That would be bare minimum for anything close to serious work. 8 is nice and comfy especially with amounts of ram vista eats nowadays.

Hope it helps,

Cheers mate!

monfoodoo
04-10-2009, 01:32 PM
This is what i,m working on.I,m trying to reduce the poly count now,anywhere i can.As you can see i,m only somewhat done'

IMI
04-10-2009, 02:19 PM
That looks very good, really, but I'm confused now. You say you can't load it into Layout, but there it is.
Is this shot from LW 8.5 or something, or have you significantly reduced the polygon count to get it into 9.6?

Is this a subpatch object or all polygons?
One really good place you could start with to reduce the poly count would be in the tires, by making them subpatch and using a displacement map for the treads.
You could also try the QemLOSS plugin in Modeler to reduce polys on certain parts while still keeping the general shape. It's fairly well-controlled through its options. Note that QemLOSS creates triangles though, if that's an issue.

monfoodoo
04-10-2009, 03:48 PM
It will not switch from model to layout everytime.And the memory specs differ wildly.and with FPrime the ram drops to 7mbs.ithought the pagefile would be used,but it doesn't seem like it.The memory sticks are 2,1 gig pc3200 ddr 200.i just ordered 3,1g sticks of pc3200 ddr 400 and hope this will resolve some of the problem.From what i hear,xp only sees 3 gigs,so i'll start from there.(those fork tubes are only a angle reference mockup)

JonW
04-11-2009, 08:20 AM
Get more ram, you do NOT want to be using virtual memory.

For emergencies.... Once you are absolutely ready to render, change every view port to “Bounding Box” save the scene, quite Layout, then restart, & then render. do not change any of the view ports to anything else, keep them as Bounding Box...... then Render.

(Textured Shaded Solid & Wire frame etc use a lot of ram. I had a scene that was using 2gb of ram for just one view port out of 4 & I was running out of ram with 16gb)

I’ve notice that on my box when you get short of ram, Paging file swaps a large chunk, I think you really need to keep at least 1 gb of ram spare or your render times will go through the roof.

Also close all other application including Modeler.

Also,

Shut down useless programs, Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Services, Disabled or change to Manual programs you don’t require. But be very careful what you close & read Properties - Description before you close things left right & centre! but there is a lot of crap running which I don’t anyone really needs.

Buy more ram. (approx over 3gb you will need 64 bit OS)

Titus
04-11-2009, 08:46 AM
I was talking with an AMD engineer. He advised me to buy sticks in pairs, so instead of 3GB, buy 4GB. The OS will use 3 but the hardware uses the dual channel, better performance.

sampei
04-11-2009, 10:12 AM
Well for one thing, 2 GB is nowhere near enough to be doing anything complex in any 3D app. You really do need more. And two million polys is pushing it.
Also, if you have any textures on the object, LW uses about ten times the amount of memory for each to render as the texture itself, yet that information is not accounted for in the render window. So for example, if you have a 5 MB bitmap, it's using 50 MB in RAM.
I don't know if the same is applied to object memory though, but it seems it could be. Layout is loading it with the intent of rendering it, so maybe there's something it's doing with the RAM that it wouldn't have to do in Modeler. Just speculation.
Are you saying you tried this particular object in 8.5? Or just in general you never had out of memory errors with 8.5?
But 2 million+ polygons is really pushing it on a system with only 2 GB RAM. You have to figure, your OS is eating some of that too, not to mention any other services or background programs.

EDIT:
I've done a few things in Layout with well above 2 million polygons, but with 8 GB RAM in my system, and haven't had problems loading such objects.
If you haven't already, you ought to try loading that same object into LW 8.5 on the same machine and see what happens.

some good info, I wasn't able to understand the underscore quote, with "object memory" you mean the memory eaten up by the objects present in the layout scene ?

sampei
04-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Shut down useless programs, Control Panel - Administrative Tools - Services, Disabled or change to Manual programs you donít require. But be very careful what you close & read Properties - Description before you close things left right & centre! but there is a lot of crap running which I donít anyone really needs.

about this, I was wondering if there's a way to recognize the useless applications running, I've tried opening the services but really not sure what I'm supposed to do...
Is it basically the same as Process Explorer ?
Is there a way to get rid of some useless apps permanently so I don't have to bother shutting them everytime I turn on the machine ?
thanks in advance :)

JonW
04-11-2009, 10:42 AM
If you read the description on each application one will get a pretty good idea of what is really not necessary. Once they are disabled they are off & you will save some ram. If your computer is really a work horse one should get rid of everything that isn’t conducive to productivity.

This is really a last resort for those panic situations.

You will save much more ram with Bounding Box & re starting LW.

Best thing is get more ram, its pretty cheap these days.

I upgraded my old 5335 V8 from 8 to 12gb, I was running a little bit short. With the extra ram the render time halved.

sampei
04-11-2009, 10:52 AM
unfortunately I have to stick to notebooks so RAM upgrades are limited, soon getting a MBP with 4 GB of DDR3 but the upgrade to 8 GB at the moment is extorsionate so I wont be getting it anytime soon I'm afraid :(
You mean restart layout, set bounding box and load the scene then render it ?

monfoodoo
04-11-2009, 11:52 AM
i manage to clean out a few thousand polys.But also remembered the object subpatch level.They where all at 3.Setting at 2 made a huge difference and Fprime render still looks good.I always work in bounding box mode so i ncan make scene adjustments on the fly.

IMI
04-11-2009, 01:47 PM
some good info, I wasn't able to understand the underscore quote, with "object memory" you mean the memory eaten up by the objects present in the layout scene ?

Yeah, more or less that's what I meant, but I was speculating on whether it does the same with geometry as it does with image maps.
As I said, an image map uses up 10x more RAM than what the scene stats displays, so I was wondering if it does the same for polygons at render time.
But in this case I'm wondering if it's pre-loading it into RAM for the polygons, in preparation for a render.

As I said, just speculation - I really don't know how it works, but I've had some rather large, poly-heavy scenes which seemed like they should be using a whole lot more RAM than what the statistics says, and have seen more RAM usage in task monitor during the render.

monfoodoo
04-12-2009, 05:33 AM
What is the max poly count on a xp 32bit before lw can,
't deal with it?In Layout.

IMI
04-12-2009, 08:12 AM
What is the max poly count on a xp 32bit before lw can,
't deal with it?In Layout.

I have no idea, man. There are factors beyond simple polygon count, such as render subpatch level, plus LW's render engine internally triangulates the mesh for its own purposes.
But also, your scene uses memory in many other ways beyond only polygon count.

monfoodoo
04-14-2009, 12:00 AM
I just bumped my memory up to 4000 mb and scene statistics now reads 1450 free ram.Now i can sleep at night.