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AdamAvenali
04-08-2009, 02:42 PM
hey all,

i'm hoping some of you tech savvy people out there can help me. normally, things like this arent a problem for me and i can figure it out eventually, but this one has me a bit frustrated.

i am migrating from Vista 32 to Vista 64 on my home built machine, but i am having problems getting to the fresh install/format drive screen. i have set my boot priority to the CD drive, i have put in the Vista 64 disc, and i turn on the comp. it asks me to boot from CD just like it should, but then instead of asking me to install it just starts trying to run the operating system from the disc (only to eventually blue screen on the welcome to windows screen).

i have also tried just running the setup file on the disc, but it tells me it cannot be run in a 32-bit environment.

any help is greatly appreciated,
adam

akademus
04-08-2009, 02:45 PM
Maybe formatting c drive prior to installing. Try Acronis tools for booting from cd and formatting drive.

hope this helps,

cheers

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 08:29 AM
okay, so this is the weirdest thing ever...

to get Vista 64 to successfully install and boot, i had to take out 3 sticks of RAM dropping me down to 2 gig. once i did that i had no problems installing. so i put the other sticks back in taking me up to 8 gig and now my computer blue screens during the loading bar of windows. so, i did a little research and found out my RAM may not be getting enough power, so i checked it in the BIOS and it was set to the proper 1.9V. did a little more research and found that someone got theirs to work by dropping the speed of the RAM from 800 mhz down to 667 in the BIOS. so i gave it a shot and here we are. everything boots as it should and all 8 gig is recognized.

am i losing performance by dropping my RAM speed down? i am assuming i am, but it seems to be the only way it will boot. i'm totally shocked and in the dark haha

RollerJesus
04-09-2009, 08:35 AM
Could be that the RAM is overheating due to the higher clock speed.

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 08:50 AM
from what i have ready so far it seems to be a vista 64 quirk that happens with certain brands/types of ram. the info said that a lot of memory problems were fixed with SP1 so i will be downloading and installing that now.

Tranimatronic
04-09-2009, 09:20 AM
im guessing here - but win64 changes the way windows addresses memory - increasing the limit of memory available.
You had your 32bit running okay but 32bit (as far as i remember) only supports up to 4gb.
You say you now have 8gb so Im guessing you bought new ram.

id take a shot in the dark that the new ram is from a different manufacturer and therefore made to a slightly different spec. At full speed ahead these 2 different sets of ram work at slightly different speeds causing system instability. Removing all but a matched pair will solve this.

Setting a slower clock speed forces them all to run at a slower (safe) speed TOGETHER.
Even memory from the same manufacturer, but build at different times can cause this - hence the fact memory is now sold as "matched pairs"

As far as performance goes - yes this will make a difference on large scene renders, but only if you are trying to squeeze every last millisecond off rendertimes.

If it really bothers you - id replace the ram. Maybe the shop you bought it from will let you take any extra back if it doesnt work.
Otherwise its working now... just leave it - whats a couple milliseconds per frame between friends ?

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 09:40 AM
yeah it seems to make sense. the ram is all from Corsair and they are all visually identical sticks and model numbers, but could have been manufactured at different times and have slight differences. they came in 2 stick packs each being 2 gig sticks (which by the way is on sale and has a rebate now --> 19.99 for 4 gig after rebate!) and the two packs i bought were about six months apart. so, we will see.

i guess the only thing i am a bit disspointed about is the stupid windows experience score (which i personally think is kinda stupid, but we use it for bragging rights in the studio haha). my score is based on my RAM which is the lowest at a 5.1 and it stayed at 5.1 after going from 4 gig to 8. i was expecting and increase, but having to slow the speed may have something to do with that.

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 09:47 AM
after SP1 finishes downloading i am also going to try to go into my BIOS and try and force a speed of 800 mhz. the default setting in the BIOS is set to auto, which i'm assuming is telling the RAM to go as fast as it can. so maybe, just maybe, i can force it to stabilize at 800.

KorbenD
04-09-2009, 10:46 AM
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 11:00 AM
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929777

thanks! i did manage to get vista installed by taking out three of my sticks. the new error that i am getting randomly on startup (due to the RAM speed) is 0x0000007E

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 02:41 PM
thanks for the help everyone! i think i have finally gotten it setup to a stable position (well, i have restarted three times in a row with no problems haha). only time will tell i guess.

Tranimatronic
04-09-2009, 02:46 PM
what did you do to fix it ?? you cant just keep us guessing :D
was it the bios ? was it a microshoft fix ? did it just fix itself ??

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 02:51 PM
hahahaha i left it vague because i tend to change multiple things at once so i dont know exactly what fixed it (i know its not a good practice but i was getting impatient haha). the bios is left at default. all the specs for the RAM is what i put in the BIOS, so basically the BIOS is set to optimal performance. i also installed the Microsoft update that KorbenD linked to and also Vista 64 Service Pack 1. it seems to work for now, hopefully it will still work tomorrow haha

IMI
04-09-2009, 05:59 PM
Wow man, you've had some weird problems with that. I know a guy who went through the same thing with Vista x64. I don't know what happened and how it was fixed, because he took it to a PC shop to get it installed.
FWIW, I've installed Vista Ultimate x64 on my own 3 64 bit PC's, and a few machines I've built for friends as well, and have had none of these problems. All of those machines have used OCZ RAM in speeds from 800 to 1066 and anywhere between 4 and 8 GB. The machines I've built for friends have all used the ASUS P5Q Pro mobo.

I hope it stays stable for you now!

AbnRanger
04-09-2009, 06:34 PM
In my experience, Vista 64 sucks something profane that I won't mention :D
I think XP 64 would be the best route to go. I had nowhere near the troubles with it that I have with Vista. I still can't get Combustion to work fully...it keep trying to install the same update repeatedly. Vista is trash for an OS.

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 07:02 PM
yeah it has been rather frustrating haha i didnt think that i skimped on any parts either. i went with what i thought were good brand names with good backing. the worst part by far was the customer service run-around. now both EVGA and Corsair were very nice and helpful, there were just giving contradicting answers. EVGA said that i had to call the memory manufacturer and get the revised memory timing and not to change the speed, while the Corsair guy said i had to change the speed and possibly overclock the north bridge a bit (which would break my warranty on the mobo, so that wasnt an option). but for now everything works so hopefully it stays that way haha

here are the specs:
EVGA 750i SLi Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Corsair XMS2 800mhz 2 gig sticks x 4
EVGA 8800GT Superclocked Edition

AdamAvenali
04-09-2009, 07:54 PM
and the only small things that are still hanging up as far as vista is concerned is that my hard drive and cd drive are showing up as removable media (but i havent installed all of the motherboard drivers yet, so that could possibly fix it) and also my computer doesnt like to shut down completely on its own. upon hitting shut down it will go to the "shutting down" screen, but it will just sit there.

IMI
04-09-2009, 07:59 PM
You really ought to install your mobo drivers before doing anything else, and maybe flash the BIOS to an updated version if applicable.

NOTE: before flashing your BIOS, Google it and read everything you possibly can about how and what, and see if there are any glaring complaints anywhere about the version you're going to flash to.

AdamAvenali
04-10-2009, 07:11 AM
You really ought to install your mobo drivers before doing anything else, and maybe flash the BIOS to an updated version if applicable.

NOTE: before flashing your BIOS, Google it and read everything you possibly can about how and what, and see if there are any glaring complaints anywhere about the version you're going to flash to.

yeah i totally forgot about the motherboard having drivers until i got home and was looking through the box haha i found an updated version of the drivers on EVGA, but no mention of any BIOS version updates (which makes me really happy because of a situation in the past where i was flashing something and there was a power outage.... haha since then the idea of flashing anything makes me queezy)

but the drivers fixed the hard drive and cd drive issue (they're not removable media anymore) so now the only thing left is the refusal to shut down, but i can live with that if necessary.

akademus
04-10-2009, 07:24 AM
...which makes me really happy because of a situation in the past where i was flashing something and there was a power outage.... haha since then the idea of flashing anything makes me queezy)


Been there, seen that... unfortunately

May the power of UPS be with you!

AdamAvenali
04-10-2009, 07:37 AM
Been there, seen that... unfortunately

May the power of UPS be with you!

so you are either referring to an uninterruptible power supply, ultraviolet particle sizer, or the united parcel service haha but i'm going to assume the power supply. a power supply is actually next on my list after i get my second video card.

akademus
04-10-2009, 08:04 AM
Yeah, I meant ultraviolet particle sizer. Every home should have one by now :D

Get the uninterruptible power supply delivered by united parcel service!

KorbenD
04-10-2009, 08:12 AM
yeah i totally forgot about the motherboard having drivers until i got home and was looking through the box haha i found an updated version of the drivers on EVGA, but no mention of any BIOS version updates (which makes me really happy because of a situation in the past where i was flashing something and there was a power outage.... haha since then the idea of flashing anything makes me queezy)

but the drivers fixed the hard drive and cd drive issue (they're not removable media anymore) so now the only thing left is the refusal to shut down, but i can live with that if necessary.

Next time you reload Vista, check out vLite (http://www.vlite.net/). With it, you make your own Vista install disc, and you can add drivers, service packs, security updates, etc.

Makes it a lot simpler to install.

AdamAvenali
04-10-2009, 08:43 AM
thanks again Korben! i will have to check that out.

steamthunk
04-10-2009, 08:45 AM
You really should consider flashing your bios. I had a similar but less drastic situation when I went to V64. The system would become unstable at 6GB+ RAM. When I updated my bios later it fixed everything. Didn't change any other settings.

AdamAvenali
04-10-2009, 08:50 AM
You really should consider flashing your bios. I had a similar but less drastic situation when I went to V64. The system would become unstable at 6GB+ RAM. When I updated my bios later it fixed everything. Didn't change any other settings.

would that also be on EVGA's site? when i go to the support page for my motherboard (EVGA 750i SLi FTW) i'm only seeing a driver update but no BIOS updates.

AdamAvenali
04-10-2009, 09:41 AM
also, to prevent having to start a new post i will just tack this on here, how exactly does lightwave use RAM? i opened a scene from the 9.6 content to try a test render (sorry for the discovery edition, but my dongle is at home) and during the render i watched the usage stats. attached are the results. i was assuming much more RAM would be used.

p.s. sorry about the image size and quality. i havent installed photoshop yet so i had to get by with Paint (which i'm glad to see hasnt changed since Windows 98 haha)

steamthunk
04-11-2009, 11:32 AM
would that also be on EVGA's site? when i go to the support page for my motherboard (EVGA 750i SLi FTW) i'm only seeing a driver update but no BIOS updates.

Yes. if you don't see any updates then there aren't any I guess. I'd keep an eye out for it in the future.

AdamAvenali
04-14-2009, 08:07 AM
hey all,

well, i am happy to report that my computer is booting up and shutting down as it should. things are running stable and i am having a great time going through some of the content stuff for 9.6 and just testing render times.

i still have a question about RAM though. i was under the assumption that RAM was also used heavily in the rendering process, but it doesnt appear that way. attached is another screen capture during a render of the Airshark content scene. it seems my CPU is being used to its max, but not the RAM.

KorbenD
04-14-2009, 07:27 PM
would that also be on EVGA's site? when i go to the support page for my motherboard (EVGA 750i SLi FTW) i'm only seeing a driver update but no BIOS updates.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=547260

There's a link to the latest BIOS update.

JMCarrigan
04-14-2009, 07:39 PM
hey all,

well, i am happy to report that my computer is booting up and shutting down as it should. things are running stable and i am having a great time going through some of the content stuff for 9.6 and just testing render times.

i still have a question about RAM though. i was under the assumption that RAM was also used heavily in the rendering process, but it doesnt appear that way. attached is another screen capture during a render of the Airshark content scene. it seems my CPU is being used to its max, but not the RAM.

From the looks of that Render Status box, it looks like Lightwave only requires 258 meg for that scene. I would say it's using what it needs.

AdamAvenali
04-14-2009, 08:01 PM
From the looks of that Render Status box, it looks like Lightwave only requires 258 meg for that scene. I would say it's using what it needs.

thanks! yeah i forgot to post earlier, but i did manage to max out the 8 gigs and crash it (intentionally, just to make sure everything is working haha). i opened up the zbrush head scene from the content directory and put the subdivision level on 100 and that did it haha though i did manage to get it to render at a subdivision level of 50, so i am impressed.

IMI
04-14-2009, 08:05 PM
i still have a question about RAM though. i was under the assumption that RAM was also used heavily in the rendering process, but it doesnt appear that way. attached is another screen capture during a render of the Airshark content scene. it seems my CPU is being used to its max, but not the RAM.

I don't understand what you mean. LW is claiming that scene is using 258.8 MB of RAM. Task Manager is showing that you're using 2.67 GB of RAM.
Don't get confused between the "Free" and "Cached" values, if that's what's throwing you.
"Cached" is Vista's Superfetch in action. If you watch Task Manager while you render, you'll see that after the render, the RAM in the "Free" row gets put into the "Cached" row.

Essentially LW uses your RAM, then releases it to Free. Superfectch then puts it back in Cached memory, for quicker access.


EDIT:
But maybe you got lucky and built yourself a super machine that uses no RAM and still gets the job done. :D

AdamAvenali
04-14-2009, 08:31 PM
But maybe you got lucky and built yourself a super machine that uses no RAM and still gets the job done. :D

thanks for the explanation! i was more concerned that i build some sort of super machine that was messed up and possibly on the brink of exploding, so i just needed some clarification haha

AdamAvenali
04-20-2009, 06:22 PM
well, after some time of stability, i have managed to break something haha the comp has been running stable and i was happy with it until today.

all of a sudden i am starting to get blue screens like crazy. there are a few different ones popping up, a couple being some "IRQL not less or equal" and "Memory Management." i ran the good ol' MemTest86+ with no errors to speak of.

all i have done to the machine lately is install a few games:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare
Call of Duty World at War
Bioshock
Psychonauts
Unreal Tournament 3
Battle for Middle Earth II with Witch King Expansion

since installing the games all i have done is start to download all the patches for them. thats when the problems started. i thought it might have been the download manager i had to get from fileplanet so i uninstalled it, but that doesnt seem to have changed anything. i'm completely lost again haha and am considering going back to 32 bit until windows 7 comes out and just hope i have a better time with that.

IMI
04-20-2009, 08:07 PM
You did memtest with a boot CD and let it run fully? I would guess a faulty RAM module or even a bad RAM slot on the mobo first.

Best case scenario is your mother board drivers or maybe even the GPU drivers. You're not using that new Nvidia 182.50 driver by chance, are you? Don't. 182.50 seems to have problems, and 182.08 is alot more stable.

Of course, it's kind of suspicious that this happened after installing games and patches, and definitely implies a driver problem or a hardware problem, but I very much doubt it's because of Vista. The BSOD was invented long before Vista ever came along. ;)
In all honesty, I have not had a single BSOD since I started using Vista, nearly two years ago. Well, not in the course of normal operation at least. I have had a few hardware failures and problems when OC'ing, but that's to be expected. In other words, Vista doesn't BSOD unless there's a real good reason for it, like imminent failure of something, or actual failure. Even the GPU will "recover" in the event of a driver error, as opposed to the BSOD you'd get in XP or Win 2K.

I'd reinstall my mother board drivers, try a different GPU driver, and run Memtest many times with only one RAM stick at a time, for starters. And check the BIOS setting to make sure it's all at default settings for now.

AdamAvenali
04-21-2009, 07:25 AM
yes, i did the memtest from a boot cd and it said completed with no errors.

i was using the 182.50 drivers. i uninstalled the driver, restarted, and still blue screened after sitting idle for a few minutes with no video driver installed. since then i have installed the 182.08 you recommended.

i am really starting to think that it is the RAM, and not that the RAM is defective, but rather not the same throughout. i am attaching a picture of what i am referring to. upon further inspection of the stickers on the RAM they do not appear to be the same, even though they are the same manufacturer and model number. it seems there is a difference in voltage and version number. i will be calling both corsair and EVGA today to see if this could be a problem.

AdamAvenali
04-21-2009, 11:40 AM
just spoke with someone at Corsair and they said even though the one pair of sticks is labeled 1.8V it is fine to have them all running at 1.9V, though to stabilize the system i have to lower my frequency from 800 to 667 mhz, so we are back to that again haha. going to shut down and give it a shot.

i can say that i have been running stable on one 2 gig stick all day today though

lwaddict
04-22-2009, 08:08 AM
Running all version of Windows since 2000 here with no issues.

You've got to research your components before performing harddrive upgrades and know that it rarely pays to perform an OS upgrade but...
we do this for carparts too right? LOL.

Glad to see that you got it running.

:thumbsup:

AdamAvenali
04-22-2009, 08:19 AM
its really weird and it still baffles me even though i feel i know what is wrong haha it will run just fine with 6 gig of ram, but as soon as that last dimm is filled it seems to put more stress on the memory controller and i officially have the most unstable computer ever haha i feel i have tested every possible combo, every stick individually, every dimm, and nothing is "broken" per se.

the blue screens are pretty random. like right now i am running all 8 gig okay and have been for about an hour, but then i can shut down and restart and i will get a blue screen while surfing the net. yesterday i got a blue screen during shut down haha so if it really gets to the point of aggrivation, i will just run 6 gig.

i do have a theory that i may be putting too much stress on my motherboard by using the 3 prong case fan plugs on there. i am thinking about taking my case fans off the motherboard and plugging them directly into the power supply to reduce the stress a bit. also this motherboard came with a huge fan and heatsink for the northbridge which also plugs into the motherboard, that also may be getting plugged directly into the power supply.

mattclary
04-22-2009, 09:05 AM
all i have done to the machine lately is install a few games:
Call of Duty Modern Warfare
Call of Duty World at War
Bioshock
Psychonauts
Unreal Tournament 3
Battle for Middle Earth II with Witch King Expansion



DRM. SecuROM. The stuff can actually affect your optical drive at the driver level.

I keep a separate boot for games and work.

Google SecuROM and possibly add BSOD as a search term.

IMI
04-22-2009, 09:37 AM
DRM. SecuROM. The stuff can actually affect your optical drive at the driver level.

I keep a separate boot for games and work.

Google SecuROM and possibly add BSOD as a search term.

Sounds plausible, and I have read a few people complain about Suck-u-ROM here and there. Well, OK, *alot* of complaints....
But I've not done anything special and have many games that use it, including I guess all the Steam stuff, and the CoD games. I haven't had any particular problems I've been aware of, not with my DVD drives, games, programs, and I've definitely not had any BSOD's.
*shrug*
**************************

Don't know what to tell you there, man. I'm not so sure I'd be blaming it on the fans, but you might want to have your power supply checked out, or get something with more juice. I don't remember you mentioning what your PSU was, but with a quad core, alot of RAM and an 8800 and a bunch of case fans and a northbridge fan too, I'd not use a power supply any less than 650 watts. A good one, too. Lots of cheap PSU's out there may claim, say, 650 watts, but don't deliver. I have a Zalman modular 850 watt PSU with copper heatpipe cooling in my main box. It cost something like $180.00, but it does quite well and has plenty of juice to spare.

IMI
04-22-2009, 09:47 AM
just spoke with someone at Corsair and they said even though the one pair of sticks is labeled 1.8V it is fine to have them all running at 1.9V, though to stabilize the system i have to lower my frequency from 800 to 667 mhz, so we are back to that again haha. going to shut down and give it a shot.

i can say that i have been running stable on one 2 gig stick all day today though

Personally I find it kind of unacceptable that they sent you mismatched RAM and gave that lame advice on top of it, and I would definitely demand the correct thing from them. At their shipping expense.
Going for the lowest common denominator is not an optimal workaround, and 667 mhz kinda sucks, really, especially when doing 3D and other memory-intensive things.
Check this out for DDR2: OCZ 4 GB (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227267)
Just an example. 50 bucks for 4 GB of DDR2 @ 800 mhz is pretty good, and it's not much more for 1066 or 1200 either.

AdamAvenali
04-22-2009, 01:14 PM
Personally I find it kind of unacceptable that they sent you mismatched RAM and gave that lame advice on top of it, and I would definitely demand the correct thing from them.

dude, seriously. i was like okay well who's idea was it to change a pretty major spec on RAM mid-cycle and then sell it as the same model number?

thanks again everyone for the help! :thumbsup: my power supply is an antec 650 watt modular setup, though i was assured by EVGA that the fans are on a seperate grid and do not affect the memory controller at all, which makes sense.

so, basically after all of the research and calling people i have found out a few things. first, nforce chip sets are not as accepting to high ram counts as intel chip sets. apparently, it seems any board with an nvidia chipset is assumed to be a gaming rig, and since most games are still only 32-bit (or were when this board was made) a lot of attention wasnt paid to 64-bit 8 gig setups, since the games at the time couldnt take advantage of it anyway. i have found multiple accounts online with people who have the same board as me having problems with 8 gig setups and the only real stabilizer is pumping more voltage through the memory controller, which leaves three possible conclusions:

1. run all 8 gig of ram at the default BIOS settings and just take the random BSODs.

2. run all 8 gig of ram and up the memory voltage and break the warranties for both the mainboard and the RAM

3. run 6 gig of ram with no problems.

i will more likely be going with number 3. it seems to be the most stable and chances are i will not notice the difference. this machine really is used mostly for gaming and as a render whore, and a lot of my lightwave scenes dont come close to maxing out even 4 gig of ram, though i do have a few rendering through maya/mental ray that are pretty much the reason i went 64 bit (go over to cgtalk and ask a question about fatal errors rendering with maya/mental ray and you will almost be guranteed the answer of "well you just need a 64 bit machine" haha).

so now that it is settled and i have a faster-than-before stable machine, next is going SLi. i mean c'mon my video card is going for $80 on ebay, cant pass that up haha i am sure i will return to this thread when something goes wrong with that plan haha

IMI
04-22-2009, 01:35 PM
Well I'm glad you got it taken care of...sort of... if you did. I'm no fan of nvidia mobo chipsets, I'll say that. But if the machine is mostly for gaming I suppose what you're doing is fine. I just hope the BSOD's end.






i am sure i will return to this thread when something goes wrong with that plan haha

I'm glad to see you're optimistic about it. ;)

AdamAvenali
04-22-2009, 01:50 PM
...if you did.
look who's talking about optimism haha


I'm glad to see you're optimistic about it. ;)
well, after this whole ordeal i dont really know what to expect anymore haha

IMI
04-22-2009, 02:15 PM
look who's talking about optimism haha




Sorry. :D

Actually, I'm having my own share of PC troubles today as I just got a new motherboard - the Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, because it can use up to 16 GB of DDR2 RAM.
It's a very new model though, with the P45 chipset, and I don't think the BIOS has been ironed out completely yet. I've had quite a few problems so far... not really problems, just alot of annoying weirdness I've never had before...
So yeah, I'm probably a little pessimistic today. ;)

Quiet1onTheSet
06-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Sorry. :D

Actually, I'm having my own share of PC troubles today as I just got a new motherboard - the Asus P5Q Pro Turbo, because it can use up to 16 GB of DDR2 RAM...I've had quite a few problems so far... not really problems, just alot of annoying weirdness I've never had before...

:bump:
Hi, IMI. How have things been progressing with that fine mobo of yours, recently? Ironed out most of the issues?

By now, you likely have read my report that the budget priced, yet feature-laden, Gigabyte GA-EP45C DS3R mobo (to replace the Intel DP35DP "budget board") is serving the NewTek VT[5] suite beautifully.

I don't have any DDR3 RAM in my arsenal just yet, but, IMHO, the really sucky thing about this board, is that it only has 2 channels available for DDR3, meaning the max you can install is 4GB. Otherwise, it's turning out to be a nice home for this now-aging Q6700 Intel Proc.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/printpage/702/1

~~~
Only a moderately knowledgeable PC user, I owe a huge thanks to you, IMI, and all others involved, for your useful, though at times -- humorously cynical feedback almost a year ago, to my rants, on the subject of 64-Bit Windows Vista Ultimate and harddisk thrashing. :D

Note: I'll admit I did have some real issues with BSOD, particularly those that reported back a BCCode of 9f.

It seems things stabilized, after I changed some modes I'm not really familiar with, within the CMOS setup.
One had to do with HPET (High Precision Event Timer):
I turned it on, and set it to 64-bit (it was on 32-bit, although the OS is Vista 64 Ultimate).

Also, ACPI settings were at S3; Changed those to to S1. It seems both actions cumulatively stopped the "Unexpected Shutdown Error" problem that resulted in the BSOD that would occur, after I'd been away from the machine for a good length of time.

OK. What's going on with you and your board? (Anyone -- including those involved in last years' 64-bit drive-thrashing discussion, feel free chime on in...)
:deal:

IMI
06-05-2009, 07:46 PM
Hello, Q1,

Yeah, I got my issues with this new mobo ironed out. I've actually spent the last five minutes trying to remember exactly what manner of "annoying weirdness" I had with this board, but can't now. And that was only a month and a half ago! If you can at all avoid it, don't get old. ;)
Well, as anyone who spends any amount of time with computers knows, "annoying weirdness" comes in so many shapes and colors, it's impossible to remember it all...

That Gigabyte looks like a pretty good board, but I really don't get the decision to put both DDR2 and DDR3 on the same board. As you've noticed, that effectively limits your RAM capacity considerably. Well, motherboards are like ice cream - they both come in a thousand flavors, and although everybody loves ice cream, some of the flavors are just too weird for some of us. ;)

I can't really remember that thread, but reading your problems below, sounds like your board had some power control problems. It could very well have been a Vista-induced hardware/software conflict. But that board hadn't been Vista approved, had it? Although Vista is supposed to be able to support HPET. ASFAIK, XP can't and therefor it should have been only a Vista compliant board. Of course, that in and of itself never meant a whole lot, because even entire systems being pushed out the door had problems with Vista, even though they were supposedly Vista compliant and even had Vista installed on them. I still blame the hardware manufacturers though. It's not as if they simply weren't told what was coming down the pipes. They had plenty of time to prepare, although the official story is that M$ pushed it upon them too quickly.
However I still believe Vista never had any place being installed on any budget OEM systems. In those cases I'd have to blame both the manufacturers as well as M$.
One thing which has always supported*my* side of the whole issue is that the pro-Vista people were almost always the more high tech types, while the anti-Vista people were almost always the off-the-shelf users and the technologically impaired. Those of us who built our own PCs with newer hardware came to love Vista, while at least half of those who didn't simply hated it. I also think alot of the anti-Vista sentiment came from people who read the early reports it was crap, and saw the You Tube videos, and decided it WAS crap, without ever even knowing anything about it, and not even bothering to learn.

At the risk of offending anyone here, I do fully understand why alot of people are still using XP. Changing your OS is risky, and yes, it is a fact that some software doesn't run on it. So it makes sense for those, and XP still works just fine, too. :)
*****************************

It stands to reason the HPET was set to 32 bit by default in the BIOS. It was probably assumed most people were installing 32 bit OS's, in spite of buying a 64 bit board. Let me guess though - the manual didn't tell you that, did it? ;)
S1 is suspend, S3 is sleep state. Makes sense that changing those values would end your "unexpected shutdown" BSOD's. Offhand I'd say it was a conflict between the motherboard driver software and Vista, trying to put your computer down for a rest, but getting into a fight over the idea, and then just saying the hell with with it and just compromising with a BSOD. ;)
I never had any real problems with power management under Vista, though, although I'll admit it's one of the first things I turn off after the novelty wears off. No problems with it at all in Windows 7, either.
Although, I'm not sure how much my APC UPS software has to do with it, how deep it reaches in there. I do know that when you install it, it makes some deep registry changes to the whole power management scheme, even though it has no real general purpose sleep/hibernation controls of its own, except in the case of a blackout. Could be it might actually fix instability problems in the OS. Might explain why I've never had those kinds of problems, as I've been using APC UPS devices on all my machines, for a long time now, and it's always among the first software I install.

I do know though, when you have a firmware feature competing against an operating system feature, if they're not agreeing completely you could have problems.

Well, I'll still defend Vista, because most of the real problems people have with it are either not understanding how it works, or running it with hardware that's not really up to the task. Mostly a combination of both.

But I now have Windows 7 Ultimate RC1 (x64) on two of my Intel-based PCs - one with the newer P5Q Pro Turbo and one with the Asus Rampage. My third 64 bit machine is an AMD, still running Vista.
You might be interested to know that the previous "disk thrashing" thing with Vista is all but entirely gone with Windows 7. I think in alot of cases, Vista was still indexing even when told not to. There are actually at least two places in the OS you have to tell it not to, and even then I noticed it was still frequently doing it on its own. They've obviously improved that quite a bit with Windows 7. Superfetch seems to have been improved as well - more efficient, smarter. Win 7, BTW, is extremely stable. Even though it's only a release candidate, it's pretty much done, as far as I can tell. It has a few minor quirks here and there, which probably differ for everybody, but nothing devastating or even particularly annoying. There may be some more features before the RTM, but I don't know what. I think you'll like it alot more than Vista, whenever you make the switch.

And, you will make the switch. ;)

Quiet1onTheSet
06-06-2009, 12:41 AM
Hello, Q1,

Yeah, I got my issues with this new mobo ironed out. I've actually spent the last five minutes trying to remember exactly what manner of "annoying weirdness" I had with this board, but can't now. And that was only a month and a half ago! If you can at all avoid it, don't get old. ;)
Well, as anyone who spends any amount of time with computers knows, "annoying weirdness" comes in so many shapes and colors, it's impossible to remember it all...

That Gigabyte looks like a pretty good board, but I really don't get the decision to put both DDR2 and DDR3 on the same board.

Yeah, IMI, that's wiered, for sure. Especially since one must use *either* DDR2 or DDR3 RAM, but not both types, simultaneously (and who would *want* to?) :jester:

I'll stick with the DDR2 for now. If prices lower to my liking, on DDR2 1066, I may bite. But DDR3 will have to wait for yet another board, in another box, for me.

But here's some sour news: Just last night, after 4 successful days of no BSOD, it did it again! (Yep. "Unexpected Shutdown Error", with BCCode 9f was back, shortly after I awakened a "sleeping" Maxtor OneTouch4 external Firewire drive! Back to the ol' drawing board.)


You might be interested to know that the previous "disk thrashing" thing with Vista is all but entirely gone with Windows 7.

Well, isn't *that* good news! Well I'm a wee bit more tempted to install Windows 7 Ultimate x64 as well, only, another VT[5] user can't get it to run on that yet... :tsktsk:

I'd like to contact you via private, as I have a few queries concerning BIOS/CMOS settings. Thanks for making the S1 and S3 dichotomy clearer, as the manual wasn't much help.

Hmmmp! I must be getting old.
:thumbsup:

IMI
06-06-2009, 10:34 AM
I'd like to contact you via private, as I have a few queries concerning BIOS/CMOS settings. Thanks for making the S1 and S3 dichotomy clearer, as the manual wasn't much help.


You can certainly do that, and I'll try to help with whatever I can, but I haven't been online here anywhere near as much as I used to be, since I have alot going on right now.
But as I tell everybody at around this point, I'm no real expert. I can build a good, stable system for gaming and/or graphics, install the best drivers for everything and install, tweak, and beat the OS into submission, and I have built and upgraded many systems over the years for myself and others. But when I run across new problems, I have to solve them the good old fashioned way - by reading and researching. Particularly where it comes to BIOS in various motherboards, and especially considering the speed at which new features are being added and technology is becoming outdated and obsolete. Sometimes it's a major PITA, as motherboard manufacturers and BIOS writers seem to think that supplying the least possible amount of information is the best way to create a knowledgeable user. :rolleyes:
Yeah, that and they're all Chinese. Brilliant designers and programmers, who never quite realized not everybody just somehow mysteriously understands everything, and don't seem to employ any competent English translators. Make sure the BIOS parts of the manual are as cryptic and incomplete as possible, aside from where it's obviously for an outdated version and outright wrong.
(Reminds me of one Asus message I used to get, but can't remember now where it came from: "Are you sure to exit now?"
Uh, well, I guess. I don't know, you tell me. At least, that's my plan. ;))

But, for all their faults, we can at least thank the bad English translators for "All your base are belong to us". Somehow, that makes all the other problems worth it. :D

But yeah, ask anything you want. If I can't answer it offhand I can at least point you in the proper direction.

AdamAvenali
07-16-2009, 05:31 PM
hey all,

rather than start a new thread about the same topic i thought it would be fun to resurrect this one haha. so i went and got my coupon for my windows 7 upgrade a couple weeks ago and i am getting ready for when it comes out to try 64-bit again. i have given up on the EVGA/Nvidia board because i have read countless statements about people having the same problems that i had. basically, it's just not built stock to fill up all the RAM slots.

so, my question to everyone is this: which motherboard would you recommend?

here is a list of my hardware that needs to be reused (bare with me as my PC is at the office so i am missing a few model numbers):
Intel Core2 Quad 6600 - LGA 775
4 Corsair XMS2 2 gig sticks (800 mhz i believe)
2 EVGA 8800GT Superclocked edition video cards in SLI (PCI-express)

i think those are the important ones haha i'm having a hard time remembering right now. i think i need a nap haha.

thanks in advance,
adam

IMI
07-16-2009, 06:04 PM
Honestly I'd not try to second guess a mobo for Windows 7 at this point, especially if you want SLI.
If you could do without the SLI though, I'd strongly recommend an Asus P5Q Pro or the P5Q Pro Turbo.
SLI - I don't mess with and don't really have any interest in. The future is in multiple GPU video cards anyway, IMO.

AdamAvenali
07-16-2009, 06:15 PM
Honestly I'd not try to second guess a mobo for Windows 7 at this point, especially if you want SLI.
If you could do without the SLI though, I'd strongly recommend an Asus P5Q Pro or the P5Q Pro Turbo.
SLI - I don't mess with and don't really have any interest in. The future is in multiple GPU video cards anyway, IMO.

well, i suppose i could put one back in the box as a backup :D but then i dont know if i would be able to run Crysis on 'Very High' at the frame rates i am now :thumbsup:

IMI
07-16-2009, 06:37 PM
Probably not. ;)

You ought to be thinking i7 and GTX 350 though. ;)

AdamAvenali
07-16-2009, 06:47 PM
haha i just finished this build not long ago so it may be a while before i do another totally new one.

i was just checking out the P5Q Pro and have a question about one of the specs:

2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 (support ATI CrossFireX technology at x8 link)
PCIe x16_1 blue, PCIe x16_2 black (* black at max. x8 link)

does this mean it supports ATI's dual cards but not Nvidia?

IMI
07-16-2009, 07:08 PM
That is correct.
Supposedly there's a hack you can use to get SLI with nvidia cards on a crossfire mobo, but I don't know the details of it. Wouldn't recommend it though. ;)

if it makes any difference, it runs nvidia cards just fine, just no native support for SLI.
But yeah, ATI is totally supported.

AdamAvenali
07-16-2009, 07:20 PM
well, i will definitely be waiting until i actually have windows 7 installed to see what i am dealing with, but i am really liking the P45Q Pro. Not to mention the price really isnt that bad considering the specs. I def paid more for my nvidia board haha

IMI
07-16-2009, 07:36 PM
Well I'm using a P5Q Pro Turbo with Windows 7 x64 and all is well.
GTX 285, btw, and that does great too. Possibly better than an SLI 8800 setup.
I wasn't able to install the drivers for the mobo from the CD though, as the installers will only recognize Vista, but Win 7 actually installed most of the drivers on its own. Huge difference from vista in that regard. Other drivers I updated on my own, such as the ethernet adapter.

I'm building an i7 machine right now though. Well not at the moment, but within the next week... just trying to make up my mind on some hardware.

JMCarrigan
07-17-2009, 09:20 AM
I'm using Windows 7 on the self-built machine in signature. Having no unsolvable problems. Faster than my previous Dell XPS Gen5 that's for sure. 2 Montors with no problems; the main one is a Cintiq 21 UX.

I will probably double the RAM when they come out with some 4 gig sticks, and get a faster i7.

AdamAvenali
12-08-2009, 03:58 PM
well after 7 months, i feel like bringing this thread back :)

i finally got my computer to run 8gb of ram stable! i didnt change out any hardware, but did find a flash for my mobo specifically meant to fix the 8gb BSOD problem, so apparently i wasnt the only one haha

i also upgraded to windows 7 :)

AdamAvenali
12-08-2009, 07:34 PM
question regarding windows 7:

i have done a little research and see a few other people with the same issue, but since the upgrade, my wireless internet is considerably slower than it used to be, both during surfing and downloading.

i have a cable modem that was provided by time warner cable and that is going into a belkin wireless G router. i have a trendnet wireless PCI adapter in my desktop picking up the signal. this setup worked great on Vista, but it is now dragging with 7.

i have flashed the belkin router with an update, but it didnt really change anything. anyone have any ideas?

IMI
12-09-2009, 05:50 AM
Well congrats on solving your RAM issue. I thought you had that figured out already though.
No idea on what to tell you about the wireless router problem though. I use a wired router, because I don't trust wireless, but I also don't have a laptop and don't see much point in using wireless on a desktop.
If you run a search at M$ Tech Net you can find registry hacks that might help, and Windows 7's ipv6 might have something to do with it with certain wireless router models.
I believe you can safely go back to ipv4, but I really don't know much about it, so I would read all up on it before making any changes if you decide that might be a problem.
I think the best idea would be to call your ISP and see if they have any suggestions.

AdamAvenali
12-09-2009, 09:20 AM
yeah the ram was okay before but i ended up dropping back to 6gb to be stable, now everything is fine with 8.

the only reason i'm running wireless is because there is only one cable input in my apartment and it is across the room. i hate wires running across my floor :D

AdamAvenali
12-11-2009, 09:13 AM
so i fixed my wireless haha i'm stupid.

when i upgraded i opened up my case to put the other 2gb of ram in and do a little regular maintenance cleaning in there. apparently the wire from my headphones got wrapped around the antenna in the rear of the tower. untangled the wire and everything is back to normal. lesson learned :D