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View Full Version : spinquad interview ... how do i feel about lw? :-)



xtrm3d
04-06-2009, 12:53 PM
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=246519#post246519

feel free to comment as i say stuff that not every one might want to hear :-)

MrWyatt
04-06-2009, 01:16 PM
http://www.spinquad.com/forums/showthread.php?p=246519#post246519

feel free to comment as i say stuff that not every one might want to hear :-)

Cool interview, and so true
:thumbsup:

evolross
04-06-2009, 01:22 PM
I think everything you said was fair. I totally agree about the membership card and t-shirt comment too. I cringed upon hearing that.

What about some of the Image Filter plugins in Layout for rendering out different passes without making a ton of scenes? Like Render Buffer Export, Render Buffer View, or Photoshop PSD Export? Do these not work in a production environment?

Cool read. Great work.

GandB
04-06-2009, 01:35 PM
Very nice work and a great interview. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

-Keith

MrWyatt
04-06-2009, 01:41 PM
I think everything you said was fair. I totally agree about the membership card and t-shirt comment too. I cringed upon hearing that.

What about some of the Image Filter plugins in Layout for rendering out different passes without making a ton of scenes? Like Render Buffer Export, Render Buffer View, or Photoshop PSD Export? Do these not work in a production environment?

Cool read. Great work.

those are soooo dated by now and don't give you the flexibility you need in todays compositing work.
The buffers lack standard outputs like normals, occlusion ,uv and such and on top of that they are not expandable uppon user needs. By that I mean that other renderers have ways to render any arbitrary buffer to file so that for instance you can output a buttload of masks with your initial render without having to have a scene dedicated to rendering an rgb matte.
where I work we use a special renderman atmosphere shader that gets applied to the entire scene, that outputs 12 Mattes as well as Normals in world and camera space, Ambient Occlusion and a coulpe of other things. We render only one scene and get out all passes we need. In LW that would be several scenes and several objects with different shaders.

allthough LightWolf has released a plugin that would make this sort of thing easyer in that you don't need several versions of your objects, bt you still need several scenes to render.

hope this makes it clear as to where LW is lacking.

scratch33
04-06-2009, 02:00 PM
Awesome work.

And cool interview.

:thumbsup:

sammael
04-07-2009, 01:46 AM
Nice interview, I think you summed up the feelings of a lot of people.

JBT27
04-07-2009, 02:32 AM
I think alot of people say and think that stuff - it's just some are heard more than others - same old story.

Look around and you will see posts from several, over many months, who bemoan the great new renderer, but left crippled, in some ways, by its lack of a modern workflow. I am still staggered that NT chose to stop at that point and move to CORE, because had they developed that render-pass workflow now, before CORE, 9.6 would have alot more to shout about and be a far higher production contender.

By the schedule, we're not going to see this in CORE for quite some time, certainly not for Q4, which seems slated as a modelling release. I understand the need to pursue that for the groundwork, but at Q4 they have to release a modeller that surpasses Silo and others, and rivals Modo's toolset at least. I don't expect that, to be honest, but would love to be proved wrong :)

As for the marketing.....what planet ARE they on?? There is something deeply immature about the whole marketing exercise, and I have wondered if some at NT simply don't get the target audience.....that's what it looks like.

Good interview - thanks for posting!

Julian.

OnlineRender
04-07-2009, 03:02 AM
nice tallent , works amazing

sammael
04-07-2009, 03:03 AM
By the schedule, we're not going to see this in CORE for quite some time, certainly not for Q4, which seems slated as a modelling release. I understand the need to pursue that for the groundwork, but at Q4 they have to release a modeller that surpasses Silo and others, and rivals Modo's toolset at least. I don't expect that, to be honest, but would love to be proved wrong :)


Huh what schedule? a Modeler?? Either you or I are mistaken and I hope to hell it isnt me...
I am yet to come accross any solid info on what we can expect in the q4 release feel free to point me in the right direction. I'm hoping its a damn sight more than just a modeler..

Sarford
04-07-2009, 03:56 AM
...they have to release a modeller that surpasses Silo...

Silo isn't so hard to surpass. Don't get me wrong, it is a great modeler and my prefered tool to use, but its riddled with buggs and the bugfixes are sparce at best. It is great... no, awsome... for organic modeling, realy super fast but hard surface modeling is..... hard.

Anyhow, nice interview Christoffe, and a mature opinion on LW. Luckely, with Core, NewTek seem to be right on track again.

biliousfrog
04-07-2009, 04:32 AM
Huh what schedule? a Modeler?? Either you or I are mistaken and I hope to hell it isnt me...
I am yet to come accross any solid info on what we can expect in the q4 release feel free to point me in the right direction. I'm hoping its a damn sight more than just a modeler..

Read through the threads started by Jay...not just a modeller but that is the primary focus for this release. He recently said that the 9.6 renderer was designed to be easily ported to CORE so, purely on speculation, you'd expect a new modeller with 9.6 renderer bolted on by Q4.

Nice interview and thanks for being honest. Unfortunately it will be ignored by the people that count just like all the other honest feedback over the years but at least you said your part.

bobakabob
04-07-2009, 04:40 AM
It read like a pretty balanced view on Lightwave, pointing out the pros as well as the cons.

Weetos
04-07-2009, 06:20 AM
Really interesting read - Christophe is right on many points, and I'm happy he still shares his artwork with us spinquaders.

Thanks for taking the time to do this interview, Christophe :thumbsup:

adamredwoods
04-07-2009, 07:24 PM
Doesn't the plugin exrTrader allow for multi-pass rendering?

xtrm3d
04-09-2009, 11:08 AM
thank you for teh kind answer ..

the main problem is not only in spolitting a pass at rendertime .. but in aking partition and shader override in the same scen/object

Lightwolf
04-09-2009, 11:15 AM
Salut Christophe,

thank you for teh kind answer ..

the main problem is not only in spolitting a pass at rendertime .. but in aking partition and shader override in the same scen/object
have you had a look at shaderMeister (http://shadermeister.db-w.com) yet?
Mind you, it doesn't solve all the issues (Janus or LWPassPort have more complete scene management).

Cheers,
Mike

gerardstrada
04-11-2009, 06:06 PM
Referring to multipass rendering (not to multilayering rendering), people interested in to make - in a single render - SSS passes, normal passes, AO passes, lighting passes, and several other effects (like color corrections, some compositing tasks, LSD, DOF filters at pixel level, etc) could take a look to DP's Filter Node Editors. They work with your favorite buffer saver and though they are experimental tools, many of these stuff are viable in a production context. A native render management system for LW might take some starting points from the idea of DP's Filter Node Editors, I think. If it's built-in, it could be much more powerful, better structured in other levels and it could be better integrated with other modules as well.



Gerardo

Lightwolf
04-11-2009, 06:39 PM
Referring to multipass rendering (not to multilayering rendering)...
Hehe, that depends a lot on your definition of passes, layers or buffers ;)

I see buffers as anything that can be generated in a single run through the renderer... which includes everything you mentioned. Ymmv though.

Cheers,
Mike

gerardstrada
04-11-2009, 10:47 PM
Yes well, buffers can store many components of the render (even the entire data of overlapped objects and independent light passes in some 3D packages). Also, the term multipass rendering (used when rendering different attributes of the scene individually) is interchangeable with the term multilayering rendering (used when we render different objects in our scene separately). And interchangeable means they can shift their meanings! Though it only confuses more people, it seems lately that the term 'multipass' is more used in both cases indistinctly. maybe because buffers are replacing both? :D Curious how some terms used in CGI from several years now have not consensus yet. So to not confuse anyone, a clarification is indeed valid :)



Gerardo