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jin choung
04-05-2009, 03:39 PM
figure a thread where non-hardcore people can cast their bread on the waters was in order. for the wtf factor....

1. RUN OVER SELECTION -

in most adobe products, in a "list" with many layers or something, if there is an attribute like the "eyeball of visibility", you don't have to click each and every one of them individually to toggle them.

you can click one and then hold down the button and just roll over the others and it toggles the setting from what it was to a new one. (try this in layers in photoshop or the layers in the timeline in after effects.

lw's layer editor became a chore to use after a while because you couldn't do that. click click click click click click click.... also, maya is the same - no run over selection and it becomes a pain to toggle lots of entitities.

and for the sake of COMPLEXITY MANAGEMENT and dealing with large datasets, this should absolutely be implemented.

it should work exactly like selecting a poly and then dragging around the mesh with the button held down.

and it should even follow the same conventions and do adobe one better - simply left click roll over would toggle to opposite. a SHIFT-CLICK roll over would be the same. a CTRL-CLICK roll over would toggle OFF. and SHIFT-CTRL-CLICK roll over would toggle ON.

also, other common conventions like multiple selecting layers and then toggling an attribute en-masse by toggling any one would be required of course.

jin

p.s. oops.. "UNSOLICITED"

IMI
04-05-2009, 03:54 PM
Speaking of selection, I'm tired of having to press the / key or find a tiny sliver of gray somewhere to click on to deselect in Modeler.

Really, that's a petty complaint though, I'm just too lazy to click the "subscribe" button for this thread, so this at least accomplishes that. ;)
I love your ideas for layers and would add it would be cool to be able to collapse layers into groups or like Photoshop layer folders.

archijam
04-05-2009, 04:17 PM
Jin you are such a drama kquing. :)

Good points, tho be good to suppress things like the object list too .. drives me nuts in Rhino.

IMI
04-05-2009, 04:48 PM
I just noticed 'Non Hardcore Outcasts'. I like that. As the CORE people have the yellow and black warning stripes, we ought to have our own colors. We could start a rival gang, even. :D

CGI Addict
04-05-2009, 05:08 PM
I just noticed 'Non Hardcore Outcasts'. I like that. As the CORE people have the yellow and black warning stripes, we ought to have our own colors. We could start a rival gang, even. :D

LOL! :ohmy:

jin choung
04-05-2009, 05:11 PM
I just noticed 'Non Hardcore Outcasts'. I like that. As the CORE people have the yellow and black warning stripes, we ought to have our own colors. We could start a rival gang, even. :D

i like it.

actually, in the book i'm reading now "a game of thrones", there's a character that is a bastard son of royalty and unlike the privelege and status that his brothers and sisters get, he is left twisting in the wind when push comes to shove.

and in another very fitting detail, all bastards do not take their father's surname but take the moniker - "snow". it's cold out there....

so are we the bastard children of lw then? are we the disenfranchised ishmael to the hard core isaacs? i'll take that. : )

jin

IMI
04-05-2009, 05:20 PM
so are we the bastard children of lw then? are we the disenfranchised ishmael to the hard core isaacs? i'll take that. : )

jin

I guess we are. So be it. Can't fight destiny. :D

Mike_RB
04-05-2009, 07:06 PM
Which one almost got slaughtered on that little hill in Israel? Or do the books disagree on that.... either way a goats blood was good enough right? Better find yourselves a goat.

Titus
04-05-2009, 07:15 PM
Better find yourselves a goat.

Kinky :D.

Dexter2999
04-05-2009, 07:29 PM
I still think Render options and camera options should be the same dialog box but on different tabs or at least a toggle button between the two on the dialog box.

I also get tired of minimizing windows to have them cover the "object", "light", and "camera" buttons at the bottom of the layout screen. I know you can resize, in fact you have to, in order to keep access to these buttons...so in my book that one is chalked up to bad design choice.

IMI
04-05-2009, 07:34 PM
I also get tired of minimizing windows to have them cover the "object", "light", and "camera" buttons at the bottom of the layout screen. I know you can resize, in fact you have to, in order to keep access to these buttons...so in my book that one is chalked up to bad design choice.

You can move those minimized tabs out of the way, but I've found that after doing so with the render window I sometimes end up with multiple render windows somehow. I'm not sure if that's what causes it, but it seems that way.
But yeah, that's a serious annoyance, one which needs to go.

AbnRanger
04-05-2009, 07:39 PM
i like it.

actually, in the book i'm reading now "a game of thrones", there's a character that is a bastard son of royalty and unlike the privelege and status that his brothers and sisters get, he is left twisting in the wind when push comes to shove.

and in another very fitting detail, all bastards do not take their father's surname but take the moniker - "snow". it's cold out there....

so are we the bastard children of lw then? are we the disenfranchised ishmael to the hard core isaacs? i'll take that. : )

jinSo, if LW 9 was "REBORN"....what does that make LW CORE?
The fetus that crawled back into it's mother's womb or something? :D

jin choung
04-05-2009, 07:42 PM
I still think Render options and camera options should be the same dialog box but on different tabs or at least a toggle button between the two on the dialog box.

totally agree.

there's also a button for the GLOW that is totally in an unexpected area and always makes newbs go scrambling for their mommies.

all relevant sh1t should be glommed together.

jin

AbnRanger
04-05-2009, 07:44 PM
Kinky :D.Only to someone thinking those kinds of thoughts. Eeeeewww, creepy...Titus and farm animals.

Just kidding :D

jin choung
04-05-2009, 09:05 PM
So, if LW 9 was "REBORN"....what does that make LW CORE?
The fetus that crawled back into it's mother's womb or something? :D

yeah... that's the problem with sales hyperbole... you eventually leave yourself in a position where you have NOWHERE TO GO!

seriously, if 9 WAS "reborn", wtf indeed is core?!

RE-BORN-AGAIN ?!

lol....

geez, that actually works.... i'm fing marketing genius. if they can bottle what i got, they could make a killing.

jin

Dexter2999
04-05-2009, 09:33 PM
yeah... that's the problem with sales hyperbole... you eventually leave yourself in a position where you have NOWHERE TO GO!

seriously, if 9 WAS "reborn", wtf indeed is core?!

RE-BORN-AGAIN ?!

lol....

geez, that actually works.... i'm fing marketing genius. if they can bottle what i got, they could make a killing.

jin


LOL, CORE "Born Again!!" on those paper fans that they give out a tent revivals in the old days (locally referred to as "Jesus on a popsicle stick").

I may have to to do a mock up when I get home.

SplineGod
04-05-2009, 09:33 PM
I think Lightwave Resusitated would have been better.

ivanze
04-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Or it could be

Lightwave Phoenix

IMI
04-05-2009, 09:38 PM
I think Lightwave Resusitated would have been better.


Get out of our thread you.. you HardCore guy you!
You're traipsin' on Outcast Land now. ;)

SplineGod
04-05-2009, 09:44 PM
You were looking a bit lonely... :)

IMI
04-05-2009, 09:46 PM
You were looking a bit lonely... :)

OK you can stick around, but only because you're a funny guy. :D

SplineGod
04-05-2009, 10:26 PM
Well...ok then... :)

cresshead
04-05-2009, 10:36 PM
hi, i seemed to have stumbled in here...err...wher's the exit?...don't want to be burnt at the stake for being a HC believer!

Dexter2999
04-06-2009, 12:31 AM
Um....I just found out I have a HardCore membership. It appears to have been applied to the upgrade I bought in January.




Who knew?

*Pete*
04-06-2009, 01:08 AM
We could start a rival gang, even. :D

uh...this was unexpected.....a new gang.








....can i join too?

*Pete*
04-06-2009, 01:11 AM
lol...we can so easily infiltrate their gang...we can spy on all the things they plan and we can even become leaders of this gang too...as long as we remove the construction stripe, they will never know...

AbnRanger
04-06-2009, 04:13 AM
LOL, CORE "Born Again!!" on those paper fans that they give out a tent revivals in the old days (locally referred to as "Jesus on a popsicle stick").

I may have to to do a mock up when I get home.
Let's see...it has 5 father's, so it maybe it's:
LW CORE..."The Bastard (Child) Strikes Back." :D

With Modo's looks (UI), Max's heart (Modifier stack), Maya's brains (programming/scripting ability), and Houdini/XSI's mannerisms (nodes)...this is bound to debut on the Jerry Springer show.
Look out Jay, here comes Larry swinging a chair! :D

archijam
04-06-2009, 05:44 AM
Slogans, eh?

"It's ALIVE!"

http://static.guim.co.uk/Guardian/arts/gallery/2007/jul/22/comedy.films/young_frankenstein_kobal-2145.jpg

shrox
04-06-2009, 06:26 AM
Maybe Core is LW's fraternal twin...

Mike_RB
04-06-2009, 06:27 AM
geez, that actually works.... i'm fing marketing genius. if they can bottle what i got, they could make a killing.

jin

Like Sarin Gas!

alexos
04-06-2009, 07:47 AM
i like it.

actually, in the book i'm reading now "a game of thrones", ...
jin

Jin Snow? But anyway - you do realise that waiting for CORE seems like just another pleasant way to spend an evening, in comparision to that blasted George RR Martin's "it shall be finished by the end of 2007, no, make that 2008, what, is it 2009 already?! OH sorry...", don't you. :)

ADP.

JeffrySG
04-06-2009, 08:50 AM
figure a thread where non-hardcore people can cast their bread on the waters was in order. for the wtf factor....

1. RUN OVER SELECTION -

in most adobe products, in a "list" with many layers or something, if there is an attribute like the "eyeball of visibility", you don't have to click each and every one of them individually to toggle them.

you can click one and then hold down the button and just roll over the others and it toggles the setting from what it was to a new one. (try this in layers in photoshop or the layers in the timeline in after effects.

I put in a feature request a while back for LW on this. I hope they carry it over into CORE. I hate it when apps don't let you do this.

IMI
04-06-2009, 08:56 AM
....can i join too?

If you want to join the NHO, you've got to REALLY hate the HardCores!

(Very obscure reference to a scene from Monty Python's Life of Brian)
:D

jlyon
04-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Jin's avatar makes me think sandwiches should the the NHO avatar motif.

No construction signs here!

Welcome "Chuck the Evil Sandwich Making Guy! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOTZOmZacjg)"

IMI
04-07-2009, 07:56 AM
Oh, the things I do when I'm bored....

Decided have a go at making an NHO logo. ;)

sammael
04-07-2009, 09:22 AM
Oh, the things I do when I'm bored....

Decided have a go at making an NHO logo. ;)

lol :D the pitch forks are a nice touch. Your not missing much though, so far Core = :compbeati

prospector
04-07-2009, 10:14 AM
seriously, if 9 WAS "reborn", wtf indeed is core?!

RE-BORN-AGAIN ?!

Tried and true marketing ploy

Coca Cola
New Coke
Classic Coke

Red_Oddity
04-07-2009, 12:13 PM
Jin Snow? But anyway - you do realise that waiting for CORE seems like just another pleasant way to spend an evening, in comparision to that blasted George RR Martin's "it shall be finished by the end of 2007, no, make that 2008, what, is it 2009 already?! OH sorry...", don't you. :)

ADP.

Pfff...don't remind me...how long can this guy screw around finishing A Dance of Dragons...and he's not even ending there (i believe there's 2 more books in the pipeline)...
Maybe by the time LW Core gets to version 6 we'll have that saga completed.

Oh...crap...HC member..i'll bugger off now.

Nicolas Jordan
04-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Not sure if I can consider myself an outcast or not since I have access to Core at work but haven't upgraded my personal license yet and probably won't for some time until I feel it's worth it. Does this make me an outcast or am I outcast form the outcasts and in danger of this angry mobs wrath?

Ernest
04-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Watch out!
It looks like the HC group is getting mobilized. Fortunately, CNet's ever watchful eye caught them on camera: http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10000681-2.html?tag=mncol;txt

Nangleator
04-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Slogans, eh?

"It's ALIVE!"
LightWave CORE. Oof! It has an enormous Schwanstücher!

BlueApple
04-07-2009, 02:14 PM
1. RUN OVER SELECTION -

in most adobe products, in a "list" with many layers or something, if there is an attribute like the "eyeball of visibility", you don't have to click each and every one of them individually to toggle them.

you can click one and then hold down the button and just roll over the others and it toggles the setting from what it was to a new one.

I love this functionality, however in Photoshop CS4 (and perhaps the one prior) you need to drag directly over each of the eyeballs. If your cursor moves out of the tight vertical path over the eyeballs as you drag, it will skip those layers. Likely there were users that wanted this, but I thought it was a bad move.

prospector
04-07-2009, 02:18 PM
http://news.cnet.com/2300-11386_3-10000681-2.html?tag=mncol;txt

I like that...you can (it looks like), lay on the back wheels like a recliner, go to work while ya catch up on some sleep :D

AbnRanger
04-07-2009, 02:33 PM
Oh, the things I do when I'm bored....

Decided have a go at making an NHO logo. ;)Replace one of the forks with an axe and a place a raised fist in the foreground :D

IMI
04-07-2009, 03:26 PM
Replace one of the forks with an axe and a place a raised fist in the foreground :D

Hey that's an excellent idea, thanks. Tomorrow's project I think. :devil:

GregMalick
04-07-2009, 04:42 PM
Man! We really miss you guys in the CORE forums.

We need some sharper swords in the Icon-vs-NoIcon threads.
And in the "not enough like LW" and "WTF!!! Is this XSI/Maya?" threads.

I guess I'll have to stop by here periodically to see what you Spartans are up to.
Going for a walk with a few hundred friends?


** sigh **

Glendalough
04-07-2009, 06:43 PM
Man! We really miss you guys in the CORE forums.

We need some sharper swords in the Icon-vs-NoIcon threads.
And in the "not enough like LW" and "WTF!!! Is this XSI/Maya?" threads.

I guess I'll have to stop by here periodically to see what you Spartans are up to.
Going for a walk with a few hundred friends?


** sigh **

Wow, this sounds BAD!

No Icons for Lightwave Please. And why lose the austere slide rule/etched metal-look?

Red_Oddity
04-08-2009, 04:07 AM
Not sure if i break NDA, but any icon can be removed from any theme, so, don't you guys worry.

Kuzey
04-08-2009, 07:22 AM
Man! We really miss you guys in the CORE forums.

We need some sharper swords in the Icon-vs-NoIcon threads.
And in the "not enough like LW" and "WTF!!! Is this XSI/Maya?" threads.

I guess I'll have to stop by here periodically to see what you Spartans are up to.
Going for a walk with a few hundred friends?


** sigh **

Haha...are any of those treads reached the 10,00 post mark yet :D

Good to hear the icons are not permanent and can be removed.

I hope Lw leans towards XSI more than Maya...especially after people have opened my eyes on the topic. XSI does feel like a cousin of LW from what little I have seen.

I would think Lw without the workarounds would not feel like LW at all...so that is a good thing. Stuff like the stack, will impact on the feel of LW but people can adapt and as long as things are still easy and fast to do...then I don't see a problem. If it takes ten clicks to make a basic cube etc. then something is wrong!!

I also hope there is one tool and not duplicates like in Maya...one for polygons and one for surfaces etc. There should be one bevel tool that works in all possible modes be it polygons, edges etc.

Kuzey

Tranimatronic
04-08-2009, 01:58 PM
its very assuring to know the development time on core is being spent wisely. Whether an application can have icons or text / icons is tantamount to my choice of software.

Reminds me of the shot in fight club where they are presenting the software and saying they prefer the blue buttons.

Its great also to know i can come onto someone elses computer and be lost when they have remapped all of their hotkeys to something completely bizarre.

Personally i cant wait to find out what these buttons actually do.

Maybe because of the NDA its all anyone can talk about ??

Kuzey
04-08-2009, 02:22 PM
its very assuring to know the development time on core is being spent wisely. Whether an application can have icons or text / icons is tantamount to my choice of software.


If I remember correctly, working on icons does not take time away from the development of the Core....that task would go to the graphic artists not the coders.

Kuzey

Tranimatronic
04-08-2009, 02:27 PM
in which case I stand corrected. :thumbsup:

Kuzey
04-08-2009, 02:40 PM
in which case I stand corrected. :thumbsup:

:D

There could be a coder or two who can create icons in Newtek, but I'm sure the top priority will be the code and pretty much little else for such people.

Other departments will probably do their bit for the Core...but only in the areas they are knowledge about :hey:

Kuzey

realgray
04-09-2009, 09:58 AM
As far as UI is concerned. I like the way Houdini tackles it. Let the user create it and upload to a sharing point at Newtek. People download, install and your off, just like texture presets. This should also encompass icons as well. Personally I keep imagining my final cut pro setup with four windows. I love the brushed metal look of it. Maybe someone will create a style for me:)

A Mejias
04-10-2009, 06:24 PM
I just noticed 'Non Hardcore Outcasts'. I like that. As the CORE people have the yellow and black warning stripes, we ought to have our own colors. We could start a rival gang, even. :D

Not all HC members have the yellow and black safety stripes. ;)

Mike_RB
04-10-2009, 06:26 PM
I wish LW9.6 could get a patch to remove the icons from the viewport headers. And have it say "PAN" "ORBIT" "ZOOM" and "MAXIMIZE/MINIMIZE" in text instead. NO ICONS!

I also think the mouse pointer should say "CROSSHAIRS" and get rid of the little picture.

:)

A Mejias
04-10-2009, 06:26 PM
Slogans, eh?

"It's ALIVE!"



LOL :lol:

Some would just be happy with "It works!"

sammael
04-10-2009, 06:58 PM
I like the icons...

jin choung
04-10-2009, 07:09 PM
i've said it before, i'll say it again - with the advent of fast tool tips, icon/no icon has become largely irrelevant.

jin

jin choung
04-10-2009, 07:13 PM
speaking of tooltips-

ZBRUSH has an awesome system of tooltips where if you hold down CTRL while hovering over a button, you not only get the text variant, you get a mini-instruction manual entry.

now this might not be useful everywhere and sometimes, zb adds clutter without providing anything really useful.

where it WOULD be useful:

ARCANE ATTRIBUTES!!! in maya for example, in the cloth solver, you have ALL KINDS OF REALLY RIDICULOUSLY CONTRIVED NAMES for attributes that you can't even guess at from the name!

and to refer constantly to a manual is tantamount to sexual harassment (well, harassment anyway... i threw in sexual because it sounds more offensive).

THAT would be a truly AWESOME place to have ZB like tutorial tool tip info! tell me WTF the damp is and how it differs from the soften!

(applicable anywhere where you have a long list of attributes that you usually have to min/max to find good settings... can be in physics panel (probably waaaaaaaaay down the line), lighting, HDR settings, voxels, etc))

jin

BlueApple
04-10-2009, 07:26 PM
Great points Jin. ZBrush is certainly a model that should be followed, assuming their tooltip methodology isn't protected somehow.

Regarding the icon vs. no icon debate - I agree that it is largely irrelevant given tooltips. However icons (generally) take up less real estate than their text equivalents, so I prefer having the option to use icons. It may take some training for individuals to learn them, but in the end it allows the user to have more screen devoted to seeing whatever they are making.

Of course collapsing menus (designed without icons) would accomplish the same goal to some degree.

cresshead
04-10-2009, 09:58 PM
i've made some of my own icons for my version of lightwave core..just a handful so far, i hope to have a full 'cresshead' theme in later builds!

jin choung
04-10-2009, 11:33 PM
Oh, the things I do when I'm bored....

Decided have a go at making an NHO logo. ;)

btw,

very nice! love the torch and pitchfork motif.

very revolutionary comrade!

jin

IMI
04-11-2009, 12:12 AM
Thanks, Jin!
Man, approval from the top dog! Who could ask for more? :thumbsup:

jin choung
04-11-2009, 04:22 PM
blender - BASIC MOUSING:

blender's use of the mouse is imo CRIMINAL and is the very first, formidable trap that new users stumble at.

the rt. button is used to both SELECT (affirmative) as well as CANCEL OPERATIONS (negative)! WTF?!?!

this is akin to making enter and esc interchangeable or opposite depending on the context.

also, that rt. button select is soooooooo unintuitive to most of the computer using world where most of us use LMB to select... and in fact, in most lists, blender uses LMB as well! INEXCUSABLE!

in the main interface, the LMB places the 3d cursor (which is a nice feature but should be a level below primary interface imo) and along with a "GESTURES SYSTEM" that CANNOT BE DEACTIVATED, in the hands of a new or unseasoned user (present company included), blender feels very "TOUCHY" and even downright "UNSTABLE"... even though it is NOT AT ALL UNSTABLE in actuality.

the very very FUNDAMENTAL, FOUNDATIONAL LEVEL of "MOUSING" (for crying out loud) is ludicrously important and strict and rigorous attention must be paid to not only INTUITIVENESS (giving heed to broad conventions across the 3d and general computing landscape) but CONSISTENCY ACROSS MENUS/FUNCTIONAL SCREENS (something lw stumbled badly at where mousing conventions in main lw were distinct from even something like graph editor, nevermind vertex paint and the nle) and further should make the user feel like they are IN CONTROL and not OUT OF CONTROL like blender does - things should happen when you expect. things should NOT HAPPEN WHEN YOU DON'T EXPECT!

[*** WARNING *** for people who consider "customizability" to be the great salvation for everything - as i said, blender uses an unconventional rt click to select in the main interface but left click in some other functions.... sure, you can remap the left button to select in the main interface.... but now you are flipped left/right button in the OTHER interfaces!!!

ACK!

consider that and make choices wisely initially or truly surrender to making every single (even foundational functions like select) mappable at every screen.]



------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maya - mousing in OUTLINER:

i include this under this flaws post but it is a forgivable one but one worthy of study -

in working with 3d meshes, shft click toggles from selected to unselected, ctrl shft click selects whatever the previous state was, alt click deselects no matter what the previous state was.

but in outliner, the behavior is DIFFERENT - which imo is NOT ideal... but in this case, it is excusable and an argument can be made that they gave it some thought:

in OUTLINER, where you are dealing with lists of entities, CTRL click adds single entities to a previous selection. a shift click allows you to add all the intervening elements between what you shift clicked on to what was previously selected.

does that sound familiar to anyone? it should - it is the behavior of windows itself in file folders.

maya COULD HAVE tried to implement their own control scheme in outline so that it was consistent with general interaction but here, they deferred to windows conventions.

an argument could be made for either case and the fight then comes down to what is more important - self consistency or first blush intuitiveness by most users.

autodesk acceded to the second notion.

it is not necessarily something to be copied or avoided but again, it should be a case study that newtek should be mindful of and take into consideration when they are developing their conventions.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

blender - ARE YOU SURE? PROMPT:

blender has a truly inane and inept convention for bringing up a blocking "are you sure?" prompt... in many many functions, it asks you that stupid mfing question but if you select quit or turn off the X of the window, it quits without a prompt whatsoever....

WTF?!?!?!

RULE: if you can UNDO it, there is NO NEED TO ASK "are you sure?". the only time when it is necessary is when you are asking to do something irrevocable like saving over a file (which is a windows function so should be good to go) or quitting or something else catastrophic.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maya - 99% of things are undoable....

but there are situations that occur that maya gives you no warning of and whether by bug or design, you have no way of undoing what you just did.

this is NOT GOOD.

when you attempt to OPTIMIZE SCENE SIZE (a scene cleaning operation), it does indeed give you warning that this is not undoable. excellent.

but in other somewhat esoteric but still not uncommon cases (like in weight painting) things end up not being undoable for some reason.

such cases must either be warned through the interface (could end up being cumbersome) or at least just DOCUMENTED!

it is understandable that a software is not perfect, and so it might, as a result of either a design flaw or bug or something, fail to undo something.

but these instances should all be catalogued and relayed to the end user so they are aware of the precise instances when and where they can expect that to happen.

jin

IMI
04-12-2009, 11:34 AM
That's a real thoughtful post there, Jin, and I hope it doesn't go unnoticed.
I certainly hope NT doesn't use *only* the suggestions of the CORE beta testers, and doesn't overlook things like this, which could seem irrelevant at first glance, but make a big difference in the long run. :thumbsup:

jin choung
04-12-2009, 03:39 PM
thanks imi....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

another-

maya - DIFFICULTY IN ASCERTAINING LINKS AND CONNECTIONS

like in the new luxology vids, in maya, it is very easy to set up multiple relationships by means of CHANNEL CONNECTIONS as well as CONSTRAINTS.

however, once those connections and constraints are established, it is very difficult to figure out WTF they are connected to! you have to jump into hypergraph and graph either the constraint exclamation point icon or the object with the connections and if you have something like a central control that has a LOT of connections going out of it, good luck in trying to decipher it all.

there is no reason for this hiding.

there should be a simple (even right click menu) way of seeing that something is connected (which IS indicated in maya) and then getting it to reveal to you what it is connected to via gui.

jin

A Mejias
04-12-2009, 04:54 PM
Jin, very good analysis!

Mike_RB
04-12-2009, 06:59 PM
thanks imi....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

another-

maya - DIFFICULTY IN ASCERTAINING LINKS AND CONNECTIONS

like in the new luxology vids, in maya, it is very easy to set up multiple relationships by means of CHANNEL CONNECTIONS as well as CONSTRAINTS.

however, once those connections and constraints are established, it is very difficult to figure out WTF they are connected to! you have to jump into hypergraph and graph either the constraint exclamation point icon or the object with the connections and if you have something like a central control that has a LOT of connections going out of it, good luck in trying to decipher it all.

there is no reason for this hiding.

there should be a simple (even right click menu) way of seeing that something is connected (which IS indicated in maya) and then getting it to reveal to you what it is connected to via gui.

jin

in 401 the channel viewport or the keying widget next to the channel shows a arrow or gear, based on if its controlling something else, or if its being controlled. RMB on the channel lets you select inputs or driven from that channel.

jin choung
04-12-2009, 07:05 PM
in 401 the channel viewport or the keying widget next to the channel shows a arrow or gear, based on if its controlling something else, or if its being controlled. RMB on the channel lets you select inputs or driven from that channel.

and from that can i assume that you can see the current state of connections as opposed to assigning new ones? cuz in maya, you can see that a connection exists and assign different ones... the difficulty is in just seeing wtf it's connected to... NOW.

if so - excellent. they've improved upon a genuine mayan flaw.

jin

Mike_RB
04-12-2009, 07:07 PM
and from that can i assume that you can see the current state of connections as opposed to assigning new ones? cuz in maya, you can see that a connection exists and assign different ones... the difficulty is in just seeing wtf it's connected to... NOW.

if so - excellent. they've improved upon a genuine mayan flaw.

jin

Yes.

AbnRanger
04-12-2009, 08:59 PM
btw,

very nice! love the torch and pitchfork motif.

very revolutionary comrade!

jinIt's still missing a raised fist in the foreground :D

Dexter2999
04-13-2009, 12:17 AM
and from that can i assume that you can see the current state of connections as opposed to assigning new ones? cuz in maya, you can see that a connection exists and assign different ones... the difficulty is in just seeing wtf it's connected to... NOW.

if so - excellent. they've improved upon a genuine mayan flaw.

jin

"mayan flaw"

Yeah, that and virgin sacrifice...what a waste of virgins.

Red_Oddity
04-13-2009, 06:23 AM
and from that can i assume that you can see the current state of connections as opposed to assigning new ones? cuz in maya, you can see that a connection exists and assign different ones... the difficulty is in just seeing wtf it's connected to... NOW.

if so - excellent. they've improved upon a genuine mayan flaw.

jin

I think Alias always thought everyone would have the hypergraph open at all times. But i agree, it's bothersome i had to write another hack for that.

IMI
04-13-2009, 07:53 AM
It's still missing a raised fist in the foreground :D

I decided the Frankenstein style insurrection seemed a little more appropriate at this time, but have not ruled out the Castro/Guevara motif for later on, if and when the HCM becomes more oppressive. :D

Jockomo
04-13-2009, 08:57 AM
I can't think of anyone more appropriate to lead the insurrection than Jin.

Anyway for what it's worth; the point that I decided that I would not be joining HC was when it was announced that they would be starting with modeling.

What they need to do is look at the industry as a whole and all of the toolsets that are available and find a niche. Instead of starting completely over they should have picked out the areas that would most complement the existing toolset in LW9 and other packages. For example... we don't need another freaking modeler right now.

Here's how I would have approached it:

Start with the render engine. Just make a really badass rendering engine that is super fast and efficient with radiosity, nodal texturing, voxels, fluid rendering and supports realtime previews like fprime.
Something like this: http://www.maxwellrender.com/

Don't forget the network rendering and make it really simple and stable - you know not like the bs you've been feeding us since network rendering was invented.

Add an object and scene converter to convert existing lw objects and scenes to collada.
Build in cross platform conversion and object navigation so you can convert lw/maya/xsi/max objects and scenes to/from each other to texture and render them in core.

And that's it. Only concentrate on that until it is the most solid bit of software you've ever seen.

Now that would be a tool that I can use with lightwave and would be worth spending money on and would complement the already mature and fairly stable lightwave 9x
Then from there they might add bones and rigging or particles and dynamics in the next release.

But to me it looks like NewTek is going to try and recreate lightwave in one blow. I hate to break it to them but they are spreading themselves too thin with that approach.
If they continue this course I think what will happen is they will end up with a package that does everything poorly and little or nothing that LW can't do anyway.

Titus
04-13-2009, 10:51 AM
Start with the render engine. Just make a really badass rendering engine that is super fast and efficient with radiosity, nodal texturing, voxels, fluid rendering and supports realtime previews like fprime.
Something like this: http://www.maxwellrender.com/



Maxwell is an unbiased renderer. This approach is the opposite of what LW, Maya or even RenderMan does. I know you mean a maxwell quality, but this quality is incompatible with animation, flickering and render times are huge.

And no, I think LW shouldn't be a niche software.

oobievision
04-13-2009, 11:07 AM
hmm I would like to see a History like the one that can be found in photoshop would make undoing things alot faster if u realize that ur model has an error instead of saving so many instances just go to history and click where u wana start back from.

OnlineRender
04-13-2009, 11:34 AM
yeah... that's the problem with sales hyperbole... you eventually leave yourself in a position where you have NOWHERE TO GO!


geez, that actually works.... i'm fing marketing genius. if they can bottle what i got, they could make a killing.

jin



you should bottle that sandwhich everytime i see your avatar it make me hungry !

IMI
04-13-2009, 12:27 PM
hmm I would like to see a History like the one that can be found in photoshop would make undoing things alot faster if u realize that ur model has an error instead of saving so many instances just go to history and click where u wana start back from.

CORE will have a history stack. Well, a modifier stack. Not like Photoshop, but more like 3dsmax, I guess.

Demo Video of the Modifier Stack (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/core/modstack.swf)

It says on the Core page about the modifier stack, "Nondestructive mesh editing will allow for amazing flexibility in the modeling process."

Well, currently that's all Core has, I guess, is modeling. At least that's all they've shown so far. But I'd imagine that as much as can possibly go into the modifier stack will, and I would assume they'd use the base of that as a basis for an overall project history, for modeling and animating.
I hope it includes surface changes too.

Then again, you know what they say about assumptions...

Mike_RB
04-13-2009, 01:36 PM
Maxwell is an unbiased renderer. This approach is the opposite of what LW, Maya or even RenderMan does. I know you mean a maxwell quality, but this quality is incompatible with animation, flickering and render times are huge.

And no, I think LW shouldn't be a niche software.

Unbiased doesn't mean what you think it means. You can use modo in an unbiased fashion. All unbiased means is more samples converges on correct result. It has nothing to so with the progressive noisy sample shooting that maxwell and fry do.

http://www.cgafaq.info/wiki/Bias_in_rendering

jin choung
04-17-2009, 10:39 PM
another mayan flaw:

in the graph editor, you can control how your motion curve interpolates after the last key (rebound, repeat, offset repeat, linear, constant, etc).

BUT

the graph editor's DEFAULT STATE is to NOT SHOW THE CURVES INTO INFINITY.

WHY?!?!

if it doesn't repeat, there's nothing interesting to show, just a straight line. but there are countless newbs everyday that encounter a situation where they cannot identify where a motion is coming from because the graph editor will not show it to them unless they ACTIVATE "VIEW INFINITY".

madness.

stupidity.

graph editors should show everything by default and allow selective filtering... AND, your graph editor should have a preferences setting that persists from session to session (which maya does not for viewing infinity).

jin

Dexter2999
04-18-2009, 03:46 AM
From working on current project at work...

All properties of particles or hypervoxels need to be enveloped by time relative to timeline and/or by relation to time of birth. Color, scale, transparency, all of it with easier access. I see people doing it but it isn't as simple as it could/should be.

Titus
04-18-2009, 08:54 AM
From working on current project at work...

All properties of particles or hypervoxels need to be enveloped by time relative to timeline and/or by relation to time of birth. Color, scale, transparency, all of it with easier access. I see people doing it but it isn't as simple as it could/should be.

Actually, any parameter should be accesable by any other variable. Simple as that.

jin choung
04-19-2009, 12:22 AM
wow,

http://www.usefulslug.com/messiah4/Productivity_tools.mov

LOOOOoooooooooove messiah's default graph editor and how it just pops under the timeline!

that's an idea from after effects i think but it just makes so much sense... actually, come to think of it:

TIMELINE

DOPE SHEET (more ala maya than ala lw's bastardization)

GRAPH EDITOR

all deal with the same info at varying degrees of granularity... it would make sense to throw in dope sheet into that pop under view too.....

very compact and intuitive. of course, you should be able to have graph editor and dope sheet be separate floating/docked windows too but have them pop under the timeline is just genius.

jin