View Full Version : FR: Modeler - photogrammetric modelling

08-17-2003, 01:20 PM
Yeah, I dont ask for much do I ;)

I been playing with the trial of ImageModeler from Realviz, and well - you gotta try it to believe it.

I think including this would scare the nubblies out of the competition, and put Lightwave right back at the leading edge.

08-17-2003, 01:32 PM
Maybe they should include Poser too. :rolleyes:

08-17-2003, 05:50 PM
Oh, I might as well reply,
I am requesting a new technology not purchasing software.

and in direct response, Max has Charachter Studio, so what would be wrong with LW having it's own similar toolset. Though you could bet if it did - Newtek would include it, not sell it as an optional extra.

Or are you actually trying to imply that ImageModeler is less than worthy of a professional's toolkit? ...Now that would be a point not worthy of discussion.

08-17-2003, 06:39 PM
I used 3D Express with LW for modeling from pictures and was kinda cool, but now ya can put different pics in each of LWs windows and now LW is better for photo modeling.

08-18-2003, 09:06 AM
First there would have to be cameras in Modeler. Then it should be possible to store and retrieve their settings from/to perspective viewports.

Once this is possible, UV VMaps could be used to place the same points on different locations over the photos shot from different arbitrary angles. After enough points are placed to serve as base for the camera calculation, the VMaps could get fed into a Modeler plugin which creates the appropriate cameras and moves the points to the right 3D locations.

One problem with this is that currently it's only possible to display/edit one UV Map at a time, whereas for the workflow explained above, different UV Maps would have to be visible simultaneously...

08-18-2003, 09:21 AM
Yep, I dont know a lot about it but I expect getting a camera into Modeler would be the first big obstacle, or a least a kind of camera, that could be made specifically for this task...

I'm really trying to imagine 2 or 3 years from now, and guessing what kind of new features will become standard accross the range of 3D apps - and who is going to be the first to implement them.

I see Photgrammetric modelling as being a very important addition in my 3D toolbox (maybe doing 30 to 40% of the modelling on each project), as I do Arch Vis which mixes alot between existing buildings and proposed. Not even for the complex and organic objects that ImageModeler can handle. I'm just wondering if this will become a mainstream technique (enough so, for developers like Newtek to write their own version) or will it remain in the realm of a only a few specialists.

08-19-2003, 07:19 PM
no need to invent new terms, the method is called image modeling.

08-20-2003, 01:02 AM

08-20-2003, 01:04 AM

08-20-2003, 01:55 AM
Yeah, Hervé it's far from LW - but I've been spolit with LW's Modeler, when I fire up a new 3D app, I keep looking for LW's modeling tools... ImageModeler-like camera calibrations and LW's modeling tools...Mmmmm

And no, I dont know know about the App's development history - sounds a bit disappointing if you've been owning and upgrading to have useful tools removed. I remember reading something from Paul Debevec that indicated a kind of node based / parametric modelling approach - and I was expecting to find that in ImageModeler, I had just assumed I hadn't figured that part out yet...

and yeah, I've gotta say - I think the texturing system is what is going to make me purchase... how well (or not) does it export to LightWave?

Hi Harhar - I have no idea what you are talking about.. is it this? (http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=photogrammetric+modeling&meta=)

08-20-2003, 05:33 AM

08-20-2003, 09:37 AM

08-20-2003, 09:40 AM

08-20-2003, 09:40 AM

08-20-2003, 09:52 AM
sold! :)

I was wondering about something related...

I wonder if you took two photo shoots of two different people.
With your camera postions setup exactly the same for both shoots.

And you managed to get the people to stand in exaclty the same pose and position...

could you model one person and export the textured model - then
apply new textures to the old model, and get a second person out of it, without having to re-model the whole thing?

OK, so I know it would be useless close-up and be very inaccurate, but I was wondering if I could do this to build myself an army of extras for Architectural walkthru's - who would never be close to the camera and only need slight variety in clothing colours etc.

Or am I just mad...:D

08-20-2003, 11:36 PM

08-21-2003, 02:58 PM
that sounds like really cool job you've got for y'self there,

Pity that re-texturing of 'base' models doesn't work out, though how you describe the whole process - it does sound very sensitve, so I understand why, and at least it saves me the frustration of finding out the hard way.

Thanks for the kind offer and the tips too, another few pieces I'm glad I dont have to learn the hard way :)

It'll take a while to go through the red-tape purchasing process at my company, but I'm really looking forward to getting this program into action - I tried a few tests, didn't get much results and had a lot of difficulty getting good calibration/accurate modelling. I reckon due to lack of understanding when shooting the photos, took some more shots today and am about to try them out now...

I think my orignial request was too much wishful thinking - though I would hope to see simlar tools for the texture extraction - which I dont think would be too difficult...

Camera Calibration tools - probably never, but that's OK for me at the moment as I have a full land-suveying crew at my disposal :D

Thanks again, all the replies and info are greatly appreciated, especially the vote of confidence and examples for the export tools.


08-21-2003, 11:33 PM

08-22-2003, 01:55 AM
That's a lot of ImageModeler allright, I suppose it would get a little tedious after a while, right now I'm loving it - ran a new test last night and it went perfect, I'm struggling with my patience to get it exported and have a look at the lightwave version :)

I'm not really sure I understand about the pixels resolutions and that preference you mentioned, but to save you too much more trouble I'm gonna go through the manual with a fine toothed come (when I get it)

at the moment I'm shooting in absolute minimum resolution, as I only have 1 8mb card for my camera :rolleyes: and I have 1.5 kilometres of cityscape to model, so as I can only shoot early on a Sunday morning, and I must get as many shots on the card as possible, but the results look like they will be OK.

This new version of IM seems to be getting a lot of exposure at the moment, and the Autodesk version seems like a good marketing strategy too, maybe the user base of the app will increase in the near future and hopefully that help foster a bit of community. As I said in one of the top posts - I believe this technology is going to be used more and more, as it seems to be realy proving itself as very useful accross a wide range of fields.

Hopefully Realviz will realy concentrate on workflow and modelling tools for fututre releases, as the camera calibration seems pretty good to me right now.


08-22-2003, 03:24 AM

08-23-2003, 07:11 PM
hee hee, I just had a quick glance out the Realviz forum, I seen that there are a few things that bother you alright :D

Gotcha on the pixel res thing, makes good sense alright.

One thing I'd like to question:
I made an object in Lightwave, and exported as Alias.*obj, then imported to IM, but I cant tweak the vertices...

I also tried converting the lwo to obj with a third party converter, also tried unwelding the object first to seperate the whole thing into unconnected faces... still no luck :confused:

I dont understand why tou would be ablr to import anything if you cant edit it - is this just a LightWave issue? or the way IM is 'meant' to be?

08-24-2003, 12:14 AM

08-24-2003, 03:02 PM
Hervé, put that half face in the gallery as a WIP, I'll bet they'd be delighted to see IM being used so well.

And yup, I just got tripped up over that not being able to hide individual faces too...

and now we're really OT in fact we're OF off-forum :D

08-24-2003, 11:45 PM

09-30-2004, 09:52 AM
Do any one of you know if there is some kind of tutorial how to calibrate photos in imagemodeler so that you get the same camera settings in lightwave and can build your 3d ontop of the photobackground?

09-30-2004, 11:04 PM
maybe there