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aaronv2
03-30-2009, 11:04 PM
I have recently procured some bvh files and i was wondering if lightwave can import the bvh motion and im able to make changes to it and export it as mocap data again. I guess my goals can be explained in a few fundamental questions.

1. Can I import the data as is and be able to preview/change the motion without having to apply it to a skeleton rig or geometry of some kind?

2. Is it possible to use something like motion mixer to combine or blend many animations into one large sequence that can be exported back to bvh?

3. If the answers to previous questions are NO. Does anyone know nifty software that can do the things i previously mentioned and utilize bvh data and maybe convert it to other mocap formats?

aaronv2
03-30-2009, 11:22 PM
For all those interested I have found an extremely large database of Mocap files on a university database.

http://mocap.cs.cmu.edu/

there is also this site which offers hundreds of free bvh but also sells some too
http://www.mocapdata.com/

they contain ASF/AMC mocap data which can be converted using...

AMC2BVH
http://vipbase.net/amc2bvh/

Apart from that I have found two usefull little applications.
http://vipbase.net/bvhviewer/
Is a useful mocap viewer but with no edit capabilities.

BVHacker is a little more promising im looking into it now.
http://davedub.co.uk/bvhacker/index.html

SplineGod
03-31-2009, 01:01 AM
1. Can I import the data as is and be able to preview/change the motion without having to apply it to a skeleton rig or geometry of some kind?
Yes, You can import bvh files in layout which creates a skeleton with the motion applied. In modeler you can import the bvh skeleton as skelegons.


2. Is it possible to use something like motion mixer to combine or blend many animations into one large sequence that can be exported back to bvh?
Yes and no. LW cannot export bvh files. It can export FBX and collada. I generally use IKBoost to deal with mocap files which I use quite a bit. Theres the free stuff mentioned here and lots of commercial libraries.


3. If the answers to previous questions are NO. Does anyone know nifty software that can do the things i previously mentioned and utilize bvh data and maybe convert it to other mocap formats?
If you consider collada or fbx as other mocap formats LW will do that.

aaronv2
03-31-2009, 01:58 AM
oh wow a reply from SplineGod... i was hoping for a day like this. Im honoured.

I will jump right into it because I do have the ability to import fbx and collada into what im using.

As a side note however... when you say "I generally use IKBoost to deal with mocap files" Are you able to elaborate on that idea just a bit? Im really interested to learn anything from you. Where the hell is the butt kissing emoticon.

SplineGod
03-31-2009, 02:07 AM
LOL! Ok....
I import the bvh file to get the skeleton. It comes in with a null with bones attached. I apply IKBoost and immediately delete all the mocap data of all the bones. This is very quick and easy to do with IKB. Next I replace the null with the actual character and then use the bone tools to make the skeleton fit the new character.
Once thats complete i reload the bvh file which again comes in with a null, bones and motion data on the bones. I apply IKB to that as well. Once IKB is applied to both rigs I can now simply copy the motion from the bvh file directly to my character and rig.
The whole operation takes maybe 5 minues.
I can also copy motions from any part of the bvh rig to any part of my character and rig. Its pretty useful and allows me to quickly get mocap into LW in a useful fashion.

aaronv2
03-31-2009, 02:13 AM
awesome! i haven't done too much experimentation with ikbooster apart from trying to replicate some tentacles not too long ago. Im going to get your technique down tonight and hopefully reach some success.

You see? Butt kissing just got me some awesome new information from the god himself. :)

EDIT: oh crap i hate to be a bother but can u elaborate how you clear the motion data from the bones easily? My idea is to save the motion out as txt with only one frame then reapplying that txt to the motion is that the correct way?

SplineGod
03-31-2009, 02:26 AM
The reason I remove the motion data is to allow me to edit and tweak the bones into place without the motion being a distraction.
Its easy enough to reapply the motion as I described.
If you set the keyframe in IKB to all items whatever you do in the dopetrack will effect every chanel of every item in your rig.
So if you select and delete all the keys in the dopetrack while the keyframe mode is set to All items every bit of motion will be deleted. This is much simpler then trying to do it in the graph editor. Heres some free stuff I have on IKB:
http://www.vfxcast.com/playlist/IKBoost/
and several hours of IKB training on DVD with support :
http://www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave/ikbooster.php

aaronv2
03-31-2009, 02:45 AM
Thanks Larry you seriously keep me motivated and always ready to learn. I have one last follow up question.

Presumably most bvh are the same? Would it be more logical to make a base skeleton i can always reference later to tweak for my model or do you suggest always adapting your skeleton rig from the bvh you load because it may contain more/less data points?

If anyone else has mocap tips id love to hear from you. But i think I have pretty much got it all sorted. Im testing out larrys technique while i post :)

SplineGod
03-31-2009, 10:15 AM
You might be able to use motion mixer to retarget mocap from the bvh file to your own rig. This can take time and some tuning.
Another option is to create a rig that uses expressions to reference the bvh rig. Again it takes time. In the end Ive found that just making the bvh rig work with my character is the easiest.

If you use a bvh library created by the same people and consistently uses the same skeletal setup its much easier. Its more of a pain when different libraries do things differently.

If you can always use the same rig thats what I would do but like I said its not always the case.

aaronv2
03-31-2009, 11:56 PM
thankyou for all your information larry... you have effectively prooved to me why your technique is the simplest and most effective. I wont even try to attempt any of those other ways, expressions? yikes!

Im currently having a little trouble with editing the bones... But i am going to keep trying. If i get desperate I may have to milk you guys for some more killer info.

aaronv2
04-01-2009, 01:16 AM
YES! oh crap I got so excited when I saw everything work just how I like it after a few crashes. I think it was a bit of pride...

Larry I want to thankyou for everything dude. If it wasnt for you I would have given up on the first try! I have posted my scene if anyone wants to check it out. Its a bit crude and not very well done but i just wanted to get the basic technique down.

All Hail the mighty splinegod.

SplineGod
04-01-2009, 10:24 AM
No problem. Glad to see its working :)

Vettcross
04-26-2009, 05:15 PM
SplineGod,
I have been following your advice to arronv2. Do you have any idea why bvh content exported from Endorphin doesn't come in properly but a bvh file that I download works fine?

Basically what I do is to import a .bvh file into LW 9.3. This brings in the rig with motion. I then replace the "hips" object with the human model.

This method works fine with downloaded data but when I bring in a .bvh from Endorphin everything goes toheck.
Any ideas?

SplineGod
04-26-2009, 05:51 PM
Im not sure. Ive had different version of LW that sometimes has broken bvh import.
If generic bvh files work but not the endorphin kind then Id guess the problems is there.
Download this free app called bvhacker and see if it will import the endorphin bvh files.
If it does then resave them out of bvhacker and they should work in LW.
http://davedub.co.uk/bvhacker/index.html
Also see if the same bvh files will work in Blender which i s also free.

Vettcross
04-27-2009, 05:42 AM
Thanks- Great observation. I actually did that before and just did it again with the same negative result.

I think it has something to do with the way Endorphin handles the T or initial pose. All play well in bvHacker but the exported version gets scrambled. I have to get with the Natural Motion people.

THX

Glendalough
04-30-2009, 06:51 AM
LOL! Ok....
I import the bvh file to get the skeleton. It comes in with a null with bones attached. I apply IKBoost and immediately delete all the mocap data of all the bones. This is very quick and easy to do with IKB. Next I replace the null with the actual character and then use the bone tools to make the skeleton fit the new character.
Once thats complete i reload the bvh file which again comes in with a null, bones and motion data on the bones. I apply IKB to that as well. Once IKB is applied to both rigs I can now simply copy the motion from the bvh file directly to my character and rig.
The whole operation takes maybe 5 minues.
I can also copy motions from any part of the bvh rig to any part of my character and rig. Its pretty useful and allows me to quickly get mocap into LW in a useful fashion.

Hi Larry, hope you have time to maybe look at this and not too busy,

Have checked the manual and gone over the 2 following threads as well:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96857&highlight=BVH

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96416&highlight=BVH

Just can't seem to get the motion of the BVH applied to the object. (Damn) How is the motion applied? Why can' t I just attach the object to the BVH bones since both are the right size? But How?

What I did:

Imported the model and then the BVH, set scale factor to .1 (calculated this by using method suggested by you to check initial size difference). Put IKB on both the object and the 'hips_x', which seems to be some form of object null (what is the purpose of the 'MotionCapturePreviewNull'? )

Went to IKB menu and motion save to text file (there is a motion copy, but no motion paste so don't know how to use) from the 'hips_x' but when I try and load to the object get message: 'can't load 30 item motions (18 loaded)'

Would really be obliged for some help on how to get this motion on the figure! Managed to do this in Blender about a year ago with some stick men, but want to do it in Lightwave with more realistic models.

COMPLAINT TO NEWTEK: There's really no step by step information anywhere for such a basic and I'd imagine common task. The whole internet has just exploded with hundreds, thousands of free BVH and other motion files, About 18 months ago there were hardly any posted anywhere.

Glendalough
04-30-2009, 06:54 AM
YES! oh crap I got so excited when I saw everything work just how I like it after a few crashes. I think it was a bit of pride...

Larry I want to thankyou for everything dude. If it wasnt for you I would have given up on the first try! I have posted my scene if anyone wants to check it out. Its a bit crude and not very well done but i just wanted to get the basic technique down.

All Hail the mighty splinegod.

Wow, thats some animation, or rather BVH motion! This is exactly what I am trying to do here.

SplineGod
04-30-2009, 11:09 AM
Just follow the method I described to Aaron. You dont have to save out the motion file and reload it because you can copy the motion directly between the mocap rig and your rig.

Glendalough
04-30-2009, 01:07 PM
... you can copy the motion directly between the mocap rig and your rig.

But How is what I'm saying?

-go to IKB Menu>Motions>Motions Copy

But then what? There is no 'paste' and command v certainly doesn't work...???

SplineGod
04-30-2009, 05:13 PM
Click n a controller on the part of the heirarchy you want to copy the pose or motion FROM then right click on the controller on the other character you want to paste the pose or motion TO. In the menu that comes up go to motion tools===pose or motion copy from...

OnlineRender
05-01-2009, 07:21 AM
always been interested in BVH and mocap , need to make a clear tut , everything i find either i cant read or cant get to work .


STEP BY STEP GUIDE please ????

for example i have BVH file and a human model

I have imported the rig into modeller and used the bones from that on my model in the same layer as the mesh ?

STEP 2 were do you go from there
I know i can go into layout and import BVH data but it dosnt sync with the model ?

what about AMC can you use them ?
pS BVHHACKER is excellent source ,think its time to buy motion builder me thinks
??????????

i can get blender to work with BVH no bother LW on the other hand, hmmm

Glendalough
05-01-2009, 07:22 AM
Click n a controller on the part of the heirarchy you want to copy the pose or motion FROM then right click on the controller on the other character you want to paste the pose or motion TO. In the menu that comes up go to motion tools===pose or motion copy from...

Thanks ever so much Larry for getting back to this...But for the life of me I just can't work out how to paste the motion (to copy is no bother), there doesn't seem to be any provision? This isn't an issue anymore. Just annoying when you can't work something out.

I seem to have found another way as suggested by Vettcross above, that is to replace the top null with the object. Was even so lucky as to find some obscure paragraphs in the manual that explained a few very obvious things but also actually mention this as well.

IKB must rank with the shader tree in Modo (IMHO) as one of the most ill designed and badly documented features in all 3D, though I think LW really wins out as they have destroyed any paper trail, and you must be the only living person who understands this feature.

Anyway, maybe you could shine some light on my final problem which is that the mesh is not deforming properly, very smartly, say like Aaron's.

Would rather not get into weight painting....is there a solution? Can the rig be simplfied say in BVH Hacker, or would this break the motion? The area of influence from the hands and wrists is pulling the sides of the mesh out on the main torso.

You have seen it all before, any suggestions PLEASE?

OnlineRender
05-01-2009, 07:44 AM
Thanks ever so much Larry for getting back to this...But for the life of me I just can't work out how to paste the motion (to copy is no bother), there doesn't seem to be any provision? This isn't an issue anymore. Just annoying when you can't work something out.

I seem to have found another way as suggested by Vettcross above, that is to replace the top null with the object. Was even so lucky as to find some obscure paragraphs in the manual that explained a few very obvious things but also actually mention this as well.

IKB must rank with the shader tree in Modo (IMHO) as one of the most ill designed and badly documented features in all 3D, though I think LW really wins out as they have destroyed any paper trail, and you must be the only living person who understands this feature.

Anyway, maybe you could shine some light on my final problem which is that the mesh is not deforming properly, very smartly, say like Aaron's.



Would rather not get into weight painting....is there a solution? Can the rig be simplfied say in BVH Hacker, or would this break the motion? The area of influence from the hands and wrists is pulling the sides of the mesh out on the main torso.

You have seen it all before, any suggestions PLEASE?

I used your scene file and deleted the arm and wrist bones from bvh data , and theres no mesh deformation above the waist , it only walks ok a little funny but i didnt need to weight anything , i then brought back the bones for the upper body and manually moved them in time , worked ok , still kinda funky though . . . . .

you could quickly and roughly weight map it , it would help :P

SplineGod
05-01-2009, 04:41 PM
In a nutshell what I told Aaron was to
Import the bvh file which creates the bone structure.
Apply IKB and use that to quickly delete all motions.
Object replace the main null with his character
Make the bones fit the new mesh.
Load bvh file again.
Apply IKB
Copy motion from bvh rig to his rig using IKB.
If the rig matches your object and youve rested all the bones
there shouldnt be any major deformation issues.
Heres some free vids on IKBoost
http://www.vfxcast.com/playlist/IKBoost/

You might take a look at this. I used Kurvs PLK plugin
to import a poser rig into LW AND mocap from poser.
I use IKBoost as well to modify the mocap.
http://www.vfxcast.com/playlist/PLK/

OnlineRender
05-01-2009, 05:14 PM
easy :)

Mr Rid
05-02-2009, 03:02 AM
...LW cannot export bvh files. It can export FBX and collada. ...

If you consider collada or fbx as other mocap formats LW will do that.

Have yet to see collada, FBX or BVH anything work right in or out of LW. More incomplete 'features' LW claims to have. There are too many of these confused import export threads. Is just lame.

SplineGod
05-02-2009, 03:15 AM
It seems to be application dependant. Ive exported FBX files from blender that loaded fine into LW with motions etc. Ive exported FBX from LW that worked in some things but not in others. As for BVH files Ive got a good sized library that I use with LW alot. The biggest thing I run into is that the skeletons used in various libraries are never consistant. As for colllada I havent had luck either way.
Rather then bother with the hassle of trying to use one bone setup and retarget the mocap data I usually end up using the skeleton created by the mocap import and making that my base rig a character. Getting it to work with a new character actually goes pretty fast. Once I do that I can use IKBoost to copy the motion directly between the bvh file after its loaded and paste it into my characters rig. That part takes a few seconds.

Glendalough
05-02-2009, 08:14 AM
... still kinda funky though . . . . .



Sounds Good! Maybe you should post it here.

Glendalough
05-02-2009, 08:27 AM
I...
If the rig matches your object and youve rested all the bones
there shouldnt be any major deformation issues.



But I am getting major deformation issues here...Set the figure up in modeler by importing the bvh rig to get it in the best position as possible. Could match the rig to the object tighter but don't think it's going to help much. Don't know what "resting the bones" means exactly or how it could effect this situation....

I very cleverly did a weight map for one bone on the right arm and this stopped the side from pulling out. But just wondering am I going to have to cleverly do a weight map for every damn bone. Maybe doing a Humanoid is much more complicated than an animal.

Something is not right, also when I untick faster bones the distortion across the upper belly disappears, this just can't be that hard, there must be a reason and an answer.

Glendalough
05-02-2009, 08:35 AM
Have yet to see collada, FBX or BVH anything work right in or out of LW. More incomplete 'features' LW claims to have. There are too many of these confused import export threads. Is just lame.

I've really given up on bones and just want to apply various motions on a mesh (unfortunately still with bones, bvh and own work) and save it out in the MDD format. These can be mixed with dponts mdd plugin. MDD imports and exports flawlessly across most programs.

Trying to combine the base motion of the mesh with other dynamics, soft and cloth, to produce easier and more plausible animations. A straight forward base motion with just bones, no matter how good, is naked (like these BVH files, a bit freaky, visually irritating) or devoid of a certain gracefulness that exists in real life movement.

Well this is my theory anyway... which also equals better results with less work. Need to sort out these BVH files, as a kind of damaged link in the workflow at present.

OnlineRender
05-03-2009, 10:47 AM
Cheers Splinegod for your help the other night , granted it was 2am but i did learn something , infact alot . . quick question ,i keep getting mesh deformation , bad !

STEP BY STEP

#Step 1
Layout :
goto file :
Import Mo_CAP setup ,BVH data !
there are 2 nulls , motion preview and usually HIP / ROOT bone null, select the null called hip or whatever the mocap data is attached to in the timeline

Step 2 ; on the null hit " P " for properties and goto the geomatry tab and add IK_Booster double click on this and it will activate IK

Step 3 :
bring up the dope sheet "small grey tab above keyframe timeline " select all the key frames on the dopesheet and right click on the selected frames to bring up the track menu ,then select delete "all items" from range 1-whatever your end frame is ,
now delete all motion and key frames from object and leaves you with only the bone structure ,remember to keep frame "0" always .

Step 4 :

Now replace the hip null by going to the items tab , then replace , replace with object "your mesh " ie human model

QUESTION Q & A : goto step 5 if all is correct

THIS IS WHERE I NEED MORE clearer instruction but i will continue on with rough guide . .


once you have the model in , goto setup tab then bone edit ,this will take you into the bone edit mode ::::::

i gather you switch off deformation and align your bones to the mesh ,in bone edit ?

this is where i get the problem when i align the bones in bone edit mode , on keyframe 0 then come out bone edit mode , when i hit deform , it moves the mesh as if though it was using the original bone setup and moves the mesh to what i have aligned the bones to ie if i move the leg bone in bone edit say for example 3 feet ,then come out of bone edit it moves the 3 ft plus what the original placement was .

" i think i know the answer but hopefully it will help other people overcome this issue"

is it because i have not rested the bones ??



STEP 5 :

Ok so we have rested all bones in bone edit mode by hitting the R key to rest !
we come out of bone edit mode and back into the scene .

Step 6 : again on the same scene file we import the bvh data , again apply IK to the new hip null 2 .

Step 7 : on the dope sheet select all keyframe and on the right hand side IKB MENU , select motion , motion save " save the motion file "

Step 8 :

now go back to the original hip null " the one with your model attached " make sure ik boost is applied on the right hand side next to the dope sheet do the same again except instead of going to motion , motion copy goto motion load ,and load in the motion data txt file ,

STEP 9 , if everything has gone correctly it will come up with a menu showing that so many motions have been applied , scroll threw the timleine and the model should now move ,




OK thats a rough a guide that splinegod talked me threw so all credits goto him not me , i was just the guy that nodded my head and tryed to take in everysingle word :) uber being one of them LOL , but again it was 2am and i was whacked .

so i wrote this to refresh my memory , its not 100% correct so please edit and amend for future reference

, now back to the issue of bone edit mode at the start , can we make that step clearer

cheers

OR

Glendalough
05-03-2009, 02:06 PM
I've gotten into the Optitrack > MotionBuilder > Lightwave flow and it's worked flawlessly. I've only done about half a dozen test files, but the only problems I've had are user-error ones. Once you get the workflow down, it's very simple. Of course... getting all of your BVH files from one source (ie. not all over the web) makes it MUCH easier. Having to contend with only one base BVH template allows getting things into LW very straight-forward.

Well I can imagine with that workflow you won't have much trouble. Motion Builder looks awesome but am a bit scared of Autodesk, probably needlessly. Still can't find the price on the website, something around a thousand?

Glendalough
05-03-2009, 02:11 PM
In a nutshell what I told Aaron was to
Import the bvh file which creates the bone structure.
Apply IKB and use that to quickly delete all motions.
Object replace the main null with his character
Make the bones fit the new mesh.
Load bvh file again.
Apply IKB
Copy motion from bvh rig to his rig using IKB.
If the rig matches your object and youve rested all the bones
there shouldnt be any major deformation issues.
...

Precious little truth in this last statement . Aaron has weight maps in his example.

Don't want to be too unpleasant, but it's rather depressing. Whether this is all related to a different workflow or selling toots I don't know?.....But must take my hat off to Aaron for posting his work which gave invaluable clues to solving this.

The workflow is simply as follows: (No copy and paste crap)

0. Adjust mesh to bvh size in layout to get an idea of BVH scale size.

1. Load mesh into modeler and the BVH (Mocap skelegons). Fit mesh to bones for exact position and size.

2.Open layout and import BVH data, swap out null for mesh.

3. Weight maps


The following observations the royal we believe to be true:

1. Putting the bones at rest is irrelevant (this has been taken care of in Modeler -no.1 above).

2. BVH skeleton may not match the mesh that well or at all, this is a given.

3 Whether the mesh can be altered without breakinig the montion in BVHacker is unknown.

4, Damaged or different format BVH files is not an issue as this is obvious when they are imported.

5. Weight maps in some form are essential unless in the unlikely case of a perfect match up with mesh

6. Help with tips etc. on weightmaps would be useful at this stage but don't expect it to happen.

Glendalough
05-03-2009, 02:16 PM
...
once you have the model in , goto setup tab then bone edit ,this will take you into the bone edit mode ::::::

i gather you switch off deformation and align your bones to the mesh ,in bone edit ?

this is where i get the problem when i align the bones in bone edit mode , on keyframe 0 then come out bone edit mode , when i hit deform , it moves the mesh as if though it was using the original bone setup and moves the mesh to what i have aligned the bones to ie if i move the leg bone in bone edit say for example 3 feet ,then come out of bone edit it moves the 3 ft plus what the original placement was .

" i think i know the answer but hopefully it will help other people overcome this issue"

is it because i have not rested the bones ??
.... now back to the issue of bone edit mode at the start , can we make that step clearer

cheers

OR

Hi there OnlineRender,

Well the Scots didn't invent insurance for nothing(?) Glad to see someone else has a real interest in sorting this out!

I stand by what I say above. But to be honest I do have a slight doubt about resting bones and the bone edit stuff, but really think its nonsense.

I am quite happy to be proved wrong, but think we need to deal in empirical knowledge here.

Glendalough
05-03-2009, 02:24 PM
Empirical attachments:

OnlineRender
05-03-2009, 02:50 PM
Weight Maps are easy ! but Splinegod mentioned a weight map blur plugin , you select the top half & buttom then use the plugin to blend the maps together ,
to create weight maps >go into modeler ,select your polyz that you want to weight then goto to the weight map at the buttom right ,

so effectivly ur saying go into modeler and set the bones there ,
then back into layout import the motion again

Glendalough
05-03-2009, 03:27 PM
Weight Maps are easy ! but Splinegod mentioned a weight map blur plugin , you select the top half & buttom then use the plugin to blend the maps together ,
to create weight maps >go into modeler ,select your polyz that you want to weight then goto to the weight map at the buttom right ,

I used weight maps in the last one posted. You can see from the animation posted as well that everything is basically fine except right under the shoulders, so this has to be refined.

There is no big deal. It's just unless the mo-cap skeleton fits the mesh EXACTLY, there is no way to make it work without the weight maps. It seemed to me that PEOPLE were suggesting otherwise and it wastes a lot of time and effort trying to do something that is impossible.




so effectivly ur saying go into modeler and set the bones there ,
then back into layout import the motion again

I'm saying there are only 3 steps ( the first 0 step is to determine scale and not essential), and when you exclude the weight map part there are only 2 steps (you can forget the IKB part).

1. Load mesh into modeler and the BVH (Mocap skelegons). Fit mesh to bones for exact position and size.

2.Open layout and import BVH data (the skeleton with the motion appears) swap out null for mesh (replace with object). (The object, mesh will be in the exact right place as it was set to those coordinates in Modeler)

That's it -no Mumbo Jumbo.

SplineGod
05-03-2009, 04:07 PM
There is no big deal. It's just unless the mo-cap skeleton fits the mesh EXACTLY, there is no way to make it work without the weight maps. It seemed to me that PEOPLE were suggesting otherwise and it wastes a lot of time and effort trying to do something that is impossible.


Im going to disagree. Regardless if you use weight maps or not the bones have to fit as exactly as possible. If they dont the mesh will rotate from the wrong places etc and no amount of weight maps or no weight maps will fix that other then to make sure the bones are in the right places.

A big part of the reason I use IKBoost which I demonstrated to Onlinerender the other night was that once I have the Mocap imported I can manipulate and use the mocap in ways that are just not possible in LW without IKBoost.

OnlineRender
05-03-2009, 05:09 PM
how do you size bones in BONE EDIT mode without stretching the mesh , is it bone move tip ?im sure ive seen a video on it before

SplineGod
05-03-2009, 05:21 PM
You can adjust the rest length even after the bones have been rested.
You can use joint edit or tip move as well. Make sure to rerest your bones.

OnlineRender
05-05-2009, 09:05 AM
still get the same error , when i import bvh and replace null with mesh , i then move bones around into correct position using bone edit , i rest all the bones , when i bring back the bvh data and apply ik and copy motion it reverts back to original stance , ive tried to save and import the original pose on keyframe 0 , but again it still acts funky ,

any ideas ?

SplineGod
05-05-2009, 11:17 AM
The first part is to get the bones lined up so you have a rest pose so that the mesh will move ok with the bones. Once you reimport the motion data that rest pose will be lost.
Keep in mind that you can copy and paste the motion data so that you skip the frame with your rest ppse.

OnlineRender
05-06-2009, 05:11 PM
BVH QUICK TEST RENDER : www.youtube.com/onlinerender

i notice the keyframe jump , i need to animate arms manualy but it looks ok

SplineGod
05-06-2009, 05:23 PM
Nice! Glad to see you got it working.

OnlineRender
05-07-2009, 04:50 AM
ye it was a nightmare at first , but now i can i get bvh data into LW within minutes , again cheers for help , much appricated , enjoy your long holiday and have a safe trip :) i might make a video tut on this area , if you dont mind ?

SplineGod
05-07-2009, 05:30 AM
Not a problem. Already working on a tutorial myself too. :)

OnlineRender
05-07-2009, 08:30 AM
ohhh well might aswell let the pro do it :)

Glendalough
05-07-2009, 03:55 PM
... i might make a video tut on this area...

OH no, don't take a scunner to this idea! Would like to see exactly how you did yours, everyone works differently.

If you did one, I might too, then there would be 2 free toots for the community and if Larry's was free, that would make 3.

geo_n
05-27-2009, 08:54 PM
Are you guys using 9.6 for mocap and ikboost? I'm still using ikboost with 9.3.1 since I dont know if 9.6 broke ikboost and don't want to risk overwriting old files with working ikboost.
Btw how's the tutorial coming along? :)

aaronv2
05-27-2009, 09:06 PM
Hey guys I've come back to my thread to check it out and I was just wondering if you want me to create a tutorial about this? Or is someone already in the process of creating one? Granted it would be my first video tutorial ever but i promise to fill it with information. Let me know if you guys are interested and I will get started. Unless larry is creating a tutorial for stuff like this in which case I back away slowly unto his greatness.

geo_n
05-27-2009, 09:27 PM
Hey guys I've come back to my thread to check it out and I was just wondering if you want me to create a tutorial about this? Or is someone already in the process of creating one? Granted it would be my first video tutorial ever but i promise to fill it with information. Let me know if you guys are interested and I will get started. Unless larry is creating a tutorial for stuff like this in which case I back away slowly unto his greatness.

Very interested especially using ikboost. And mocap with lw tutorial is so few maybe just one official tutorial for 7.5 below I think, by Olaiya Gardner and Vincent Tang.
Its good but I think the tip that Splinegod said about ikboost and mocap is a great time saver. I've yet to try it out since I just read it today.

adk
05-27-2009, 10:21 PM
I've also been interested in this for a while, more from the arch viz side of things but don't hold that against me. Would love to see any such vid/tute as I'm sure it will help me a great deal. So big :thumbsup: for any such material.

adk

tyrot
08-05-2009, 05:44 AM
dear mocapmasters

ok ..so where is the video tutorial? For animation-newbees like me everything is like rocket science.....

Just a question, LW'sMOCAP(BVH)Workflow + MotionMixer=CharacterStudio's for max ????


Best

SplineGod
08-05-2009, 06:21 AM
We did a very inexpensive webinar on getting mocap into LW and editing it etc.
KURV should have a DVD available soon.

tyrot
08-05-2009, 06:27 AM
dear larry

KUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURV! come on come on....(download version will be available also...I CANT wait for shipment)

BEST

tyrot
01-08-2010, 09:02 AM
I'm saying there are only 3 steps ( the first 0 step is to determine scale and not essential), and when you exclude the weight map part there are only 2 steps (you can forget the IKB part).

1. Load mesh into modeler and the BVH (Mocap skelegons). Fit mesh to bones for exact position and size.

2.Open layout and import BVH data (the skeleton with the motion appears) swap out null for mesh (replace with object). (The object, mesh will be in the exact right place as it was set to those coordinates in Modeler)

That's it -no Mumbo Jumbo.

hey glen

Actually while i was waiting for this DVD i was trying just what you did.

I really do not understand why i need to make "IKB copy motion" while i can import BVH file both into modeler (as skelegon) and layout.

I did as you wrote here. It worked. Adjusting skelegon into mesh is dead easy. Once everything is done...export that mesh into layout...replace it as you said...perfectly done.

Also i added that mesh IKB controller. So i can control this mesh with IKB even further degree which is totally cool, just like layers in Biped MAX.

And as far as i can see without using weights it is almost impossible to do any perfect mocap. I may be wrong ...so i wanted your feedback.

All im thinking right now how to blend more than one mocap file within layout just like motionmixer in Biped. If you guys have any idea about it, it is time to share..

(PS. adding IKB to mocapped character is the coolest thing i done in layout for a long long time. After mocap ends i can carry on with IKB and use all the cool tools in IKB for mocap mesh. simply brilliant..It makes me learn more IKB after all these years...)

Glendalough
01-09-2010, 08:15 AM
Hi tyrot,

Glad someone sees some sense in what I wrote!

It seems you have gone beyond what I've tried and am interested in what you say here. I think the weight-maps are pretty essential as you say. Started to investigate this workflow in Blender which I believe has 3 methods of adjusting weights/addressing the deformation problem.

Am looking my BVH files out and will post anything useful with a few questions in a day or so. About blending motions, this could be easily done with dpont's MDD node, as a final resort, but probably not what you are looking for.

Have got a few days behind here due to cataclysmic snowstorm, just struggling to survive, shoveling snow, putting chains on the car and getting to supermarket for food.

geo_n
01-09-2010, 10:33 AM
hey glen

Actually while i was waiting for this DVD i was trying just what you did.

I really do not understand why i need to make "IKB copy motion" while i can import BVH file both into modeler (as skelegon) and layout.

I did as you wrote here. It worked. Adjusting skelegon into mesh is dead easy. Once everything is done...export that mesh into layout...replace it as you said...perfectly done.

Also i added that mesh IKB controller. So i can control this mesh with IKB even further degree which is totally cool, just like layers in Biped MAX.

And as far as i can see without using weights it is almost impossible to do any perfect mocap. I may be wrong ...so i wanted your feedback.

All im thinking right now how to blend more than one mocap file within layout just like motionmixer in Biped. If you guys have any idea about it, it is time to share..

(PS. adding IKB to mocapped character is the coolest thing i done in layout for a long long time. After mocap ends i can carry on with IKB and use all the cool tools in IKB for mocap mesh. simply brilliant..It makes me learn more IKB after all these years...)

So in the method you do the mesh is no longer in T pose? You adjust the mesh in modeller to fit the skelegon bvh which is sometimes the bvh is not in T pose.
Try the motion mixer in lightwave http://www.3dthunder.com/tutes/

Glendalough
01-12-2010, 02:15 PM
So in the method you do the mesh is no longer in T pose? You adjust the mesh in modeller to fit the skelegon bvh which is sometimes the bvh is not in T pose.
Try the motion mixer in lightwave http://www.3dthunder.com/tutes/

Have looked though all my files and it seems you don't have to bother with the T-pose when using MY 2 STEP METHOD.

Could be missing something but as far as SOME PEOPLE telling us anything useful without paying 50 dollars, it seeems unlikely, that is, if They even know.

Am having trouble getting the shoulder to deform properly in my attempt above, an unsuitable model imported from MakeHuman. Think I might give it another try with a more suitable model.

Just going back to the T-pose problem, I found the program BVHacker very interesting and easy to use. But both in the finished and alpha verstion of this, though it coverted the BVH to a T-pose, it did something weird to the last 2 or 3 joints on the feet/legs (?) Perhaps someone else here would look at this program, it seems to have good potential as you can edit the movement and take out and add clips or sections of the BVH file.

ImpactD
01-16-2010, 10:12 AM
Thanks Guys for all the help! :thumbsup: I followed your instructions and it worked great!! I brought my character into LW9.6 and then used motion mixer and saved the motion file. I did this for two separate .bvh motion files and plan on using motion mixer to bring them together in a separate scene. Hopefully it works out! The riggs seem to be almost identical for both .BVH files.

I do have one question that I hope someone could answer. How do you scale the motion path after it's applied to my character? Applying the .BVH motion rig to my character required that my character's scale be increased tremendously to match the rig. Like I said, it worked great but once inside Layout, when I scale the character back down to match the scale of my scene, the motion file remains its original size and the character follows the larger sized motion path. I need to scale the motion path to match the size of my character. FYI - I had to scale down my character to .025 the original size for it to be of proper size in my scene. Is my only alternative to increase the scale of everything else in my scene to match the motion file?

Can anyone help with advise? Thank you very much!!

Glendalough
01-18-2010, 06:23 PM
Thanks Guys for all the help! :thumbsup: I followed your instructions and it worked great!! I brought my character into LW9.6 and then used motion mixer and saved the motion file. I did this for two separate .bvh motion files and plan on using motion mixer to bring them together in a separate scene. Hopefully it works out! The riggs seem to be almost identical for both .BVH files.

I do have one question that I hope someone could answer. How do you scale the motion path after it's applied to my character? Applying the .BVH motion rig to my character required that my character's scale be increased tremendously to match the rig. Like I said, it worked great but once inside Layout, when I scale the character back down to match the scale of my scene, the motion file remains its original size and the character follows the larger sized motion path. I need to scale the motion path to match the size of my character. FYI - I had to scale down my character to .025 the original size for it to be of proper size in my scene. Is my only alternative to increase the scale of everything else in my scene to match the motion file?

Can anyone help with advise? Thank you very much!!

Well all I can say this is dreadful no one is answering your first post!

By attaching some objects to a null it is possible to scale them and their movements (by scaling the null), don't know if this would work with BVH. Think I must have done it with MDD files (?)

ImpactD
01-19-2010, 12:34 AM
Well all I can say this is dreadful no one is answering your first post!

By attaching some objects to a null it is possible to scale them and their movements (by scaling the null), don't know if this would work with BVH. Think I must have done it with MDD files (?)

Thanks Glendalough,

I will try what you recommended. I already scaled-up the remainder of my scene to match the motion rig and everything is working great! I was also having problems getting motion mixer to repeat the motion so I went ahead and set the frame post-behavior in the graph editor (for all bones in the rig) at the end of the motion file to repeat. I then baked the entire sequence within the graph editor (all bones selected) in order to apply keyframes over the duration of my animation. I then tweaked the end of my scene with a final pose using FK. So far, so good.

I just want to thank you and others again for your instruction about the .BVH motion file import to LW! I had been trying to figure it out for a long time! :bowdown: