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View Full Version : Stereoscopic? Not the Blue Red Glasses version, the Coraline kind. How?



rdolishny
03-26-2009, 09:42 PM
I finally went on a 3D bender and saw the U2-3D film and Coraline in one night.

Amazing stuff.

Seems to render this kind of animation out of lightwave you need to render two passes: one of each camera about 60cm apart.

Is that it?

What software do I use to mix them together and how can I preview it with these nifty (solarized?) glasses I brought home from the theatre?

Seems like there is a business opportunity for anyone who can provide content in this format.

- Rick

Titus
03-26-2009, 11:04 PM
It's easy, you need two projectors with a polarized filter each. Each filter need to be rotated differently. There are cheap and expensive solutions.

http://www.barco.com/entertainment/en/stereoscopic/passive.asp

The principles of stereography are simple, but you need to know how to do it right, to avoid sickness and pain to your audience.

Titus
03-26-2009, 11:36 PM
I forgot the first part of the recipe. You can send the sync stereo images using a single PC with Stereoscopic Player.

SplineGod
03-27-2009, 12:12 AM
You can also use LCD shutter glasses and mix y our left and right eye views in different fields of your video.

geothefaust
03-27-2009, 12:16 AM
It's easy, you need two projectors with a polarized filter each. Each filter need to be rotated differently. There are cheap and expensive solutions.

http://www.barco.com/entertainment/en/stereoscopic/passive.asp

The principles of stereography are simple, but you need to know how to do it right, to avoid sickness and pain to your audience.

I recently saw Coraline. Great movie, but... The theatre I saw it at did something wrong while we were watching it. I got a headache early on and it only got worse by the time it was over.

So yes, do it RIGHT or don't do it at all. (PS - Horrible headache!!)

aaronv2
03-27-2009, 02:22 AM
a few years back i stupidly baught a stereoscopic card from ebay that came with glasses... made by MSI.

Th card that came with it never worked no matter how hard i tried. And since then i have thrown it out because it was only vga and now both my graphics cards use dvi thats how long ago it was.... anyway i still have the shutter glasses.

Having the shutter glasses is there anything i can do with them? Or is there a way to plug them into my pc without having to buy one of those crappy cards again?

can anyone suggest a better alternative?

Titus
03-27-2009, 09:56 AM
I had that card too. The problem is you need a high quality monitor with 100-120Hz refreshment rate, or won't work.

Titus
03-30-2009, 06:33 PM
I just found this link at the 3D World magazine, I'm tempted to attend:

http://dimension3-expo.com/uk/edition_2009.php

jayroth
03-30-2009, 08:56 PM
Stereo involves quite a few considerations. First, there is the interocular distance, or the distance between the eyes (or cameras, in our case). While there is an average distance, it is just that, an average. You can play with the interocular for different effects, or different moods.

Next, you have the focal plane (not sure what its called), where the cameras converge. At this plane, You can move this around the scene, and is the place where the screen plane would be on a projected image. The remainder is in the background (whether or not it is in focus). In fact, depth of field involves similar considerations to stereo, albeit at a very simplistic level.

To create the stereo effect, you will need to render each camera separately. It is not uncommon to have three or more cameras, often in stereo pairs, when lining up shots. Shadows and reflections require special consideration; any errors will reveal the trick. Also, you cannot do alot of the typical 2D effects, unless you have a very savvy compositor. You are better off rendering the effects in 3D, in spite of the render hit.

Some new compositing applications will let you play with the interoculars after the images have been rendered, which allows the directors and editors to play around a bit with the final imagery. I am not sure how much leeway that allows, as again, at some point, the tricks become apparent.

The cool thing about this new generation of 3D is the digital factor: digital acquistion of live action, digital effects, digital compositing, and digital projection. This approach removes almost all of the problems associated with 3D in the analog days, with the exception of one, and the most important: the use of stereo for the sake of the effect (things coming out at you), rather than its use as an immersive experience. Those who choose the latter will be more successful than otherwise.

BTW, in case you were wondering, I worked on "Jaws 3D" and did numerous stereo tests for "Ghosts of the Abyss"...

SplineGod
03-31-2009, 02:18 AM
Ive worked on two Imax 3d films that were stereoscopic,
One called Tall Tales and the other was Aliens of the Deep.
We created a camera rig for each that was composed of two cameras and some expressions allows us to change things like the intraocular distance based on a target null.
In both films we also had to motion track left and right eye background plates that our 3d elements were comped into. Once the camera rigs were setup there were some simple rules to follow. We had some shutter glasses setup with a small projection system to check things to make sure they were working.

Ron Schatz
04-28-2009, 03:43 PM
I finally went on a 3D bender and saw the U2-3D film and Coraline in one night.

Amazing stuff.

Seems to render this kind of animation out of lightwave you need to render two passes: one of each camera about 60cm apart.

Is that it?

What software do I use to mix them together and how can I preview it with these nifty (solarized?) glasses I brought home from the theatre?

Seems like there is a business opportunity for anyone who can provide content in this format.

- Rick

Just what software boys, just what software, is the question, not what you did or what setting on the camera.

Heck, can a single computer monitor even display an image for using polarized glasses (passive glasses)?

Just what software do you use to display polarized stereoscopic images?

After that we can animate our own movies.

StereoMike
05-03-2009, 10:50 AM
I work for a company now that among other stuff can support events with autostereoscopic 3D monitors (42" and we also have one of 4 autostereoscopic videowalls worldwide).
I do content for these monitors (and regular animations as well).
Right now we do it with a separate rendering of the z-pass (I use idof) and let the driver do the rest, but in the not too far future we have to get into the 8-camera workflow. There are plugins for 3ds and other packages, but as far as I know not for LW. Or does anybody know of a plugin?
(unfortunately it's not simply shifting the camera a bit to the side, you also have to adjust the center of the picture, it's like moving camera and limited region for each of the 8 views).
I guess I have to dig into lscript...

mike

bradcarvey
07-26-2009, 07:12 PM
It won't be long before you can buy a large format HD Samsung LCD TV that comes with Shutter Glasses, but not yet.

Samsung has a nice 67" DLP rear projected TV, with LED lighting (no bulb) that handles 120 hz inputs. For $49 you can get a nice pair of Samsung shutter glasses that work directly with the DLP rear projected TV, which has the wireless transmitter built in. I tried to find one, but they are apparently discontinued. I have the RealD shutter glasses ($600) and the Nvidia setup with 23" LCD Samsung monitor. The RealD glasses (formerly Crystal Eyes) are probably the best quality. The NVidia glasses are like watching a movie with sunglasses on. They are fine for games and testing/researching content creation.

Don't be fooled by all of the 120 Hz LCD TVs. They won't accept 120 Hz vertical refresh rate inputs. They interpolate frames to smooth the motion and that's why they say they are 120 or 240 Hz.

Lot's of things going on. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next 12 months.

jaxtone
07-26-2009, 07:30 PM
Hi StereoMike!

I have checked up on a few different Stereoscopic systems and have come to the conclusion that in the future Stereoscopy that craves glasses will be classified as a dead rat!

The would rather future smell like autostereoscopy solutions...

I havenīt had time or money to invest in my own system yet since the monitors are so dead expensive but found alternatives that even includes a postproduction software that can handle film and composited stuff.

The only thing that worries me is the render times X8 since I havenīt got a personal render farm. I guess your company haved solved that? Would be nice to know more about how the work process runs when you do the setup without the plugin that of some reason only excist for MAX, and also MAYA I believe!

Isnīt IDoF extremely slow and unnecessary complicated? I have tried to figure out how it will be exported in the best of ways but still havenīt found any good way. At least not for import into After FX!


I work for a company now that among other stuff can support events with autostereoscopic 3D monitors (42" and we also have one of 4 autostereoscopic videowalls worldwide).
I do content for these monitors (and regular animations as well).
Right now we do it with a separate rendering of the z-pass (I use idof) and let the driver do the rest, but in the not too far future we have to get into the 8-camera workflow. There are plugins for 3ds and other packages, but as far as I know not for LW. Or does anybody know of a plugin?
(unfortunately it's not simply shifting the camera a bit to the side, you also have to adjust the center of the picture, it's like moving camera and limited region for each of the 8 views).
I guess I have to dig into lscript...

mike

04-20-2010, 05:08 AM
So any movement out there ?
LW has been able to render stereoscopic pairs since it was steam driven, Nvidea are pushing their shutter glasses so we've ordered some, Monitor with stupidly high refresh-rate,
Got my render farm fired up & tests running,
Got SpeedEdit2 (is that any use)
So how do I get my stereo image pairs into something I can watch without getting a degree in obscure hacking & downloading instruction free stereo movie makers from dodgy sites that trigger all my anti virus software!

kurv
04-21-2010, 12:43 PM
If you are looking to dive deeper into Stereo and LightWave 3D, we have a well priced video here - http://www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave/stereoscopic_primer.php

Tranimatronic
04-21-2010, 04:41 PM
rdolishny - You're in Toronto ?
I have a headset I can show you if you'd like for experimenting with. They are around $400. It has two seperate displays and you run your two image sequences through a program that saves out a file that it reads.
They give an okay representation in 3d.
PM me if you are interested.

I worked on a Terminator2 3d conversion presentation for James Cameron last year.
It seems as though the world and his dog is jumping on the stereoscopic bandwagon right now. It is kinda difficult to do 'right'. I just hope we start seeing more good content before the world decides its just a gimmick and moves on.

04-22-2010, 04:54 AM
Thanks for the suggestion KURV, but I don't want to go out & buy fusion etc etc as well as a video:
I just want to be able to render sterio pairs out of LW and show it to clients NOT using colour anaglyph!

The new Nvidia/sony sort of default standard seems to work fine - and will produce a viewing system for less than Ģ500.
But how do I take my L & R rendered image sequences & make them into something I can play!

Iaian7
04-29-2010, 04:33 PM
...There are plugins for 3ds and other packages, but as far as I know not for LW. Or does anybody know of a plugin?
(unfortunately it's not simply shifting the camera a bit to the side, you also have to adjust the center of the picture, it's like moving camera and limited region for each of the 8 views).
I guess I have to dig into lscript...

mike

It's probably not as hard as you think! As I understand it, Pixar used parallel cameras for Up, then adjusted the stereo base separately (I could be way wrong, just the impression I got last year). James Cameron used convergent cameras, which required perspective distortion removal in post.

The beauty of Lightwave is that you can use some basic expressions and the TiltShift camera to get the best of both worlds (easily controlled stereo base, but without distortion)... I set up a basic rig last month and wrote a tutorial, just waiting for my employer to approve publishing. :D

Lightwolf
04-29-2010, 06:40 PM
But how do I take my L & R rendered image sequences & make them into something I can play!
http://stereo.jpn.org/eng/stvply/index.html
There's a few standard, usually you create a side by side video (double width, l&r images next to each other) and use a compatible video player to play back.

Edit: There's also this for nVidia hardware: http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_vision_video_player_1.5.5a.html

Cheers,
Mike