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View Full Version : LightWave CORE Page Updated - 2 Videos, 2 New Screenshots



Chuck
03-25-2009, 05:55 PM
The LightWave CORE Page (http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/core/index.php) has been updated with a couple new screenshots and two videos! Jay Roth takes a look at GPU subdivision surface support and selection, and Jarrod Davis takes a look at using the modifier stack in modeling operations.

adamredwoods
03-25-2009, 06:28 PM
looks good, thanks for the update.

wsi
03-26-2009, 07:05 AM
Very cool. Thanks for the update. I really appreciate that.

littlewaves
03-26-2009, 08:55 AM
Both videos pretty interesting esp. the modifier stack one

but c'mon guys. What line of business are you in again? Synch up the audio on Jarrod's video and repost it!

___mats___
03-26-2009, 12:09 PM
- Audio out of sync on one video.
- 5 minutes of black at the end.
- Audio level way off on both videos (not normalized).
- The "widget size not final" note did not look professional, plus I think it was not needed since its assumed nothing is final yet (but this is nitpicking).

And this is a personal opinion, but what they showed did not have that much more substance than what was shown in the first reveal, which scares me when I think at the actual pace this is being developed.

Disclaimer, I would LOVE for NT and LW to get it right, im just stating obvious marketing issues, is there QC on the videos before they are posted.

I want NT to look professional.

Ok, back to work (LW 9.6)

Sean Martin
03-26-2009, 12:56 PM
Videos don't exactly fill me with confidence for a Q4 release of CORE,
especially the MAC version!

Why do I feel less interested in purchasing CORE after this?

oh well! lets see what the next few days bring.....

gordonrobb
03-26-2009, 01:29 PM
It was enough to convince me, and I took the plunge today.

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 02:15 PM
Omg ...... i just watched ,firstly ill say GUI looks smooth and easy to use "nice",
but come on NT , it looks to me as if youve just read this weeks post " 1 week left and no new info on Core " stuck hypercam on and said go on mate do something with it and then posted it to straight to your main web page ,without even editing it .

Audio is poor , far to much background noise and you can hear the cpu fan spinning at times which indiactes its heavy on proccessor " in my opp .
Apart from that "no offence" rather flat and unpaced , if your going to catch peoples /worlds attention and interest ,may i suggest getting proton to VO work , at least the NT crowd are fimilar and enjoy his tuts and at times hes rather amusing .

Your making school boy errors and not only looks bad on yourself / company, but what does it say about the people who use LW , it reflects harsh , that people that use LW follow the same paths as there maker , which to me is unfair and totally disrepectful to the hardcore LW followers , which these people not only pay for the service , but make images that will take your breath away from the software that you are supposidly premoting !

I understand that this is new software and there will always be bugs , and appricate the time that you taken to make these videos , but again you have let yourselves down with poor basic buisness ethic .

The LW users on here are some of the best artists i have had the pleasure to share info and ideas with ,i feel as if they have been robbed of there dignity and pushed to side .


Sorry if I have offended or upset ,I do appoligize but the truth is you are slowly lossing the market and your fans !

ps Goodluck

SBowie
03-26-2009, 02:24 PM
Thing is, I don't think these are really intended to be 'infomercials' ... they are just quick glimpses for the current crowd, to try to help them decide what to do about HC in the next few days - nothing more than that. And some at least have basically said 'don't worry about that stuff for now, just show us what you've got and hurry up about it'.

I suppose 'the world is looking on with bated breath', but still .... I've no doubt that when it comes time to really market Core for release, there will be a good deal more attention to detail.

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 02:37 PM
I have no proplems with the software infact im looking foward to it ,you cant knock anything that is trying to move fowards , I may not buy it straight away ,afterall i just did buy Max and im feeling the empty pocket syndrom ,
but its the manner that they have handled it , if they came onto the NT forum and said look weve made a short a clip its only on the forum if you want to view it, fair enough i would have excepted the yet again dodgy video . but the matter of putting onto there main web page ,reflects terrible on a company, where not only existing customers but new customers will access this information .

Please NT take your time over this , dont rush , especailly at the demands of forum artists which at times will be strong and correct . but if your going to do promo stuff make sure it gets the target audince by the ba77s and not some amuture like me , picking up faults that a college student would make >

away to model a cave to hide from AD fans !

Edit : please dont go back and give your staff negitive feedback from what i have said , i can understand not only the pressure but they strain at this moment in time they may be under , somtimes things are overlooked when your sitting ontop of it !

SBowie
03-26-2009, 02:41 PM
away to model a cave to hide from AD fans ! :D

Thanks for your comments.

Sonk
03-26-2009, 03:30 PM
Okie i was watching the video Jay did and i have to wonder why the selection tools aren't more integrated into the workflow?

I mean you have to press select>select? select > lasso? IMO thats kinda slow. In other 3D application left clicking is some sort of selection, clicking and dragging you get a lasso selection or rectangle selection in Modo depending on what they set it on. right click is a sort of raycast selection by default.

So whats with the the selection workflow? its something you do everytime, shouldn't it be more integrated at least the basic ones i mention?

SBowie
03-26-2009, 03:49 PM
So whats with the the selection workflow? its something you do everytime, shouldn't it be more integrated at least the basic ones i mention?I think all of the excess clicking is just for the sake of someone viewing the video - so they can follow the process. Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

adamredwoods
03-26-2009, 03:54 PM
I think all of the excess clicking is just for the sake of someone viewing the video - so they can follow the process. Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

Like making a tutorial by using shortcut keys and not telling people when you press it?

SBowie
03-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Like making a tutorial by using shortcut keys and not telling people when you press it?Yep.

kfinla
03-26-2009, 04:02 PM
There also didnt seem to be a lot of hotkeys setup in genral.. I noticed i missed the assigned hotkey indicator on the right side of the button like in LW of old.

hrgiger
03-26-2009, 05:57 PM
FYI- a third video has been added to the core page: www.newtek.com/core

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 06:27 PM
nice , 10 times better video than the last , audio is still funky but you can be forgiven for that ! plus timming and pace and VO is much more appealling , plus you can actually see what core does "sort off" , like the way the polys selected are highlighted nice and clear

Cheers big man ! much appricated ! ,

love the way he jumped in and out of the menus , faster than a speeding bullet , must be all that time sitting infront of core ,when were all chocking for a shot . now that video makes you want Core

EDIT : congrats youve made it streaming video content and youve got rid of the dead space on video 2 , looks sharper and more proffesional now !

away to model a sword , to rise up against AD fans (",)

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 07:15 PM
Question : i may be going over something which has been said on another forum post , but its probably lost in the 9600 + posts " ps thats alot of info for you marketing staff to read "
but will there be a feedback button on Core Beta , that you can easily hit and send ?

hrgiger
03-26-2009, 07:18 PM
Well we already have the feedback agent which is in your programs folder in 9.6. Allows you to send bug reports, add attachments (such as scene/object files for bug reports), or give feature requests.

cresshead
03-26-2009, 07:24 PM
anyone else agree that the modifer stack is upsidedown?

we stack things 'up' not 'down'??
base object should be on the bottom of the list not the top.

if it were a modifier 'list' i'd have no issues...but a stack is very descriptive in how you'd expect it to be displayed...much like layers in photoshop....your background layer in pshop is NOT on the top is it?

Myagi
03-26-2009, 07:31 PM
From how it works a list might be better suited, but then they have the problem that more people know what a modifier stack is, so calling it a stack makes more people instantly know what it is. Damned if you do, damned if you don't :)

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 07:31 PM
nice i thought you probably would have , just making sure ? i got MS to change the transparancy on the last windows 7 build on one of the start menu icons mainly because i sent them about 5000 words , i thought core might have had the same quick icon " sometimes when you want to send feedback you want it there and then , just so you dont forget " esp on a beta build

I like it when big companies ie NT & MS listen to there customers , breaks down the barriers i respect that .

Peace away to read about student discount on Core if any ? if you want ill clean your office for a year to pay for it (",) but u'll have to pay for my flights :P

GandB
03-26-2009, 07:32 PM
Like making a tutorial by using shortcut keys and not telling people when you press it?
Can't stand that; especially in an intro to basics tut.

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 07:41 PM
Can't stand that; especially in an intro to basics tut.

you mean like the zbrush one , basic tut training and all you hear is click click next thing you know hes modeled a space marine and your still trying to subd a cube

SBowie
03-26-2009, 07:46 PM
I like it when big companies ie NT & MS ...Ummmm.... ok.:stumped:

(I also like it when big countries are democratic - like Canada and Antigua :D )

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 07:54 PM
Ummmm.... ok.:stumped:

(I also like it when big countries are democratic - like Canada and Antigua :D )

ok i appoligize for putting NT and MS in the same sentence , i am dyslixic ,and its 2 am please forgive me !

Ps i like it when I get fries with ma shake :)

im just back from boarding in canada , i meet more people from the UK than actual canidians , allround nice place . plus the people seem happier " example you walk past someone in Glasgow and they walk right threw you , in Canada they say excuse me and thank you " .

SBowie
03-26-2009, 08:00 PM
in Canada they say excuse me and thank you " .Well, I've been in parts of Canada where total strangers say "Hi Steve" less than an hour after you hit town, and others where they say "Give me your wallet ... please" (we do try to be polite) ;)

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 08:20 PM
Well, I've been in parts of Canada where total strangers say "Hi Steve" less than an hour after you hit town, and others where they say "Give me your wallet ... please" (we do try to be polite) ;)

Could be worse , i stayed in long island for about a year , every day i had to travel threw Far Rockaway , that was fun , pale white , scottish and male :

i learned a thing about how the world spins then ! also i set the fastest land speed record by foot ... hmm maps dont tell you that Sh!t

Sonk
03-26-2009, 08:25 PM
I think all of the excess clicking is just for the sake of someone viewing the video - so they can follow the process. Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken.

For NT sake, i hope that's the case and assigning custom hotkeys to basic selection workflow is not my idea of integration(though understandable with more advance selection(i.e. expand). Basic raycast selection and rectangle selection should be integrated into the default mouse button config. :p

OnlineRender
03-26-2009, 08:28 PM
I wanna see how it handles rendering , could we have another quick video on that ? prefferable on a computer like mine ,Sinclair ZX Spectrum (",)

littlewaves
03-26-2009, 11:59 PM
anyone else agree that the modifer stack is upsidedown?

we stack things 'up' not 'down'??
base object should be on the bottom of the list not the top.

if it were a modifier 'list' i'd have no issues...but a stack is very descriptive in how you'd expect it to be displayed...much like layers in photoshop....your background layer in pshop is NOT on the top is it?

I dunno.To me it's more like a more interactive version of Photoshop's history which stacks down.

However maybe in the final version of core we'll be able to customize this kind of thing to our own preferences. That might make sense. A simple sort button at the top (or bottom!) or the stack would do nicely.

I think these sort of details are probably a long way off being finalised so there's probably plenty of time for them to evolve (with the help of a few feature requests)

Panikos
03-27-2009, 01:15 AM
I am sorry for not joining this joy.
I havent found a reason yet or I am not convinced.
Newtek is late several years (in technology terms) and considering previous tactics, I will revise CORE after 3 years. No excess of money to finance anybody.

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 03:18 AM
I'm with Panikos here I'm afraid :(

Sub-D Performance - OK, better than old Lightwave, but other my other 3D software has had hardware accellerated graphics for quite a few versions.

Modifier Stack and Instancing - Again, this feature has existed in my other software for years.

Keyboard Shortcuts - Are you kidding me? You have a brand new whizzy bit of Software coming out that you want everyone to buy into and the best you can manage is showing us how to set up keyboard shortcuts!!!

I'm afraid I'm very disappointed, I wanted to buy into this, and expected to see a lot more before the end of March 'deadline'.

I think my money would be better spent at this stage with another years maintenance for Softimage.

mav3rick
03-27-2009, 03:24 AM
I wanna see how it handles rendering , could we have another quick video on that ? prefferable on a computer like mine ,Sinclair ZX Spectrum (",)

hmmm

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 04:13 AM
I'm not saying that the SubD performance isn't good.

What I'm really getting at is when you try and sell a new piece of software, and especially when you enforce a 'buy it before the end of the month, and get it cheaper' policy, you should be showing things that get people, and especially existing users, excited!

Showing us stuff we've all seen before is not the way to do it, and these videos have been a looooooooooong time coming.

I wanted to see particle instancing, rendering speed and quality, render passes etc. stuff I can really use in production.

Yes 15 level subD is great, but most of the time I animate at between 1 & 3 and just render at 10 and above - all of which I can do in Lightwave now.

hrgiger
03-27-2009, 04:26 AM
Yes 15 level subD is great, but most of the time I animate at between 1 & 3 and just render at 10 and above - all of which I can do in Lightwave now.

Yes, if only they were building CORE just for you, maybe they'd be showing other things right now.

The fact is, a majority of users have criticized Lightwaves poly pushing ability for quite a few years. Not to mention the complaints over the way cc subdivision was implemented in 9.

They're not trying to get everyone to buy in before the end of the month. They're showing what's ready to show right now and giving you the choice to upgrade or not and participate in the development of the other things you have mentioned that are important to you. For you, it sounds like right now with what's been shown, you're not ready to buy in. Yet I just checked outside and the sun is still rising.

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 04:41 AM
I just love fanboys!

So you think things like particle instancing and render passes are just for me?

Sorry Happy Digital, no-one wants to use instancing (except me of course)!

Sorry Eyeon, Adobe and Autodesk, no-one needs to render out passes and layers(except me)!

Get real!

hrgiger
03-27-2009, 04:56 AM
I just love fanboys!

So you think things like particle instancing and render passes are just for me?

Sorry Happy Digital, no-one wants to use instancing (except me of course)!

Sorry Eyeon, Adobe and Autodesk, no-one needs to render out passes and layers(except me)!

Get real!

You're missing the point. It has been stated numerous times. The focus for the Q1 release is the modeling aspects of CORE. The other things will be revealed and shown as they move forward beyond the first build of CORE, as in beyond March 31st. So if you're looking for information on the other stuff before next Tuesday, I've probably got bad news for you.

simonnankivell
03-27-2009, 05:02 AM
Your kidding right? so one of the reveal videos is how to assign keyboard shortcuts. I'm sorry but any faith I still have for Newtek is slipping away.
Right now I would have been happier to have seen a 9.7 or 9.8 before we got Core.

The Newtek guys have obviously worked hard on Core and I imagine it will be a great piece of software in its final form. But I would have rather had a really cool teaser campaign with great technology reveals and a see you at Siggraph.

Then time could have then been spent having properly prepared videos and a I must have it now result, rather than a lot of disappointed lightwavers.

I hope that the next couple of days may reveal more and restore my faith

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 05:10 AM
It's not bad news at all!

I'll just keep making a living with Lightwave (9.x) and Softimage. If and when the CORE looks like it will be useful, then I may purchase it!

For now I'll leave it to the hobbyists who can afford to pay $400 to be beta testers :)

SBowie
03-27-2009, 05:15 AM
I'll just keep making a living with Lightwave (9.x) and Softimage. If and when the CORE looks like it will be useful, then I may purchase it!That's an entirely reasonable decision, given your view.

For now I'll leave it to the hobbyists who can afford to pay $400 to be beta testers :)But even with the smiley, some of the HardCORE members will find this to be a cheap shot, and unwarranted. Some are admittedly hobbyists, but many are not.

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 05:21 AM
That's an entirely reasonable decision, given your view.
But even with the smiley, some of the HardCORE members will find this to be a cheap shot, and unwarranted. Some are admittedly hobbyists, but many are not.

Yeah, that was a bit of a cheap shot! Apologies.

I suppose what I was getting at is that I just don't have time to play with software anymore (which I regret).

When I purchase software it has to be 'production ready' and able to start making money in a very short timespan.

SBowie
03-27-2009, 05:27 AM
When I purchase software it has to be 'production ready' and able to start making money in a very short timespan.Sure - and that's one solid reason why HC isn't for everyone. For you (unless the $ aren't a big factor and you want to lock in savings on the following years version now), seeing how things have come along toward the 1.0 around year end would likely make more sense.

jasonazure
03-27-2009, 05:37 AM
Sure - and that's one solid reason why HC isn't for everyone. For you (unless the $ aren't a big factor and you want to lock in savings on the following years version now), seeing how things have come along toward the 1.0 around year end would likely make more sense.

This is true! But you have to admit that Newtek aren't doing a very good job of getting people excited about this new software?

I can be as impulsive as the next person, and money isn't the issue here. If they had shown one or two really cool things then maybe I would have been tempted!

Keyboard Shortcuts!!!! WTF!

-EsHrA-
03-27-2009, 05:39 AM
wow...that was lackluster...


mlon

SBowie
03-27-2009, 06:01 AM
This is true! But you have to admit that Newtek aren't doing a very good job of getting people excited about this new software?This criticism has been raised by a few, so I will just post the link to my reply fwiw:

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showpost.php?p=856346&postcount=66

SBowie
03-27-2009, 06:02 AM
wow...that was lackluster...mlonIsn't your avatar the first frame of Prospector's? Or is his yours, animated? Or did you both get it somewhere else?

OnlineRender
03-27-2009, 06:35 AM
IDEAS :

Videos I would like to see before 31st prefferable with Jay doing VO " sorry Jarrod no offence I dont doubt your ability , just better comming from CEO in my opp

Proton Modelling a head ! or anything

Rendering Engine working and a final bmp image at the end of the video showing the quality " im sure someone here will have a nice model for you " .

Saslite , fibre Fx any pluggin or effect ,installed and used on model , i know this would probably be simillar to LW9. but just to give the user more of an idea .

If the emphasis on modelling for Q1 , a nice sneak preview of some new tools in action would be nice .

These are not demands just suggestions for more videos , student loans day is the week after the deadline date , which is gutter because im serouisly thinking about " its like a new toy that i must have " but i have some cash saved up for a rainyday and my wifes slowly comming around to the idea , mainly because she got hooked on the whole viral marketing , or was it because i never shut up about for about 2 weeks solid .

Peace and goodluck !

SBowie
03-27-2009, 06:37 AM
... Than after some time they told to the customers they want do focus on modeling!For Q1 ... more to follow.

Do you really have the notion that 'listening to the customer' means letting each and every customer drive the order in which development projects are tackled? It's hard for me to imagine you could seriously expect that. How could that work, since many different people would want very different things addressed first?

I take it to mean that NewTek listens to and weighs customer suggestions and priorities, then considers a feature's perceived value, development effort required and time available, and eventually implements those which pass those tests - doing so at the most fitting point in the process from the standpoint of Core architecture. Anything other than this approach would be chaos.

-EsHrA-
03-27-2009, 06:49 AM
Isn't your avatar the first frame of Prospector's? Or is his yours, animated? Or did you both get it somewhere else?

yes i wanted to get rid of my core avatar and found this on my drive :)


mlon

OnlineRender
03-27-2009, 06:54 AM
Please NT take your time over this , dont rush , especailly at the demands of forum artists which at times will be strong and correct .



No they aint going to bend over backwards for someone like me , i could understand if another more respected member of the forum asked the same question !

I was just spinning ideas

but me hey , im just a Scottish punk with 500 in my back pocket !

Edit sorry sounded like a |Pick there , not my attentions , just saying , no matter what or who says , NT have an agenda and project scope which we cannot change or infulance , merley watched from a distance !

cresshead
03-27-2009, 11:13 AM
I would think that implementing the abillity to choose the way it is displayed would solve the problem and make everyone happy:)

well if you see how the big 3 apps do it then newtek's core is upsude down...:thumbsdow

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71555&d=1238172078

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71556&d=1238172093

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71546&d=1238125033

pooby
03-27-2009, 11:27 AM
totally agree with Cresshead. Industry standards are good to keep to if possible.
It makes no difference in workflow-we COULD use an upside down list but this kind of thing will make Core look a bit wonky and odd in others eyes.

A stack SHOULD go upward. You put one effect on TOP of another, not beneath it.

Kuzey
03-27-2009, 11:49 AM
What would be very useful in a stack system is a thumbnail preview of the object at that time. So, instead of trying each extrude in the list until you hit the right one....you just look at the preview icon and go from there :D

Kuzey

caesar
03-27-2009, 01:39 PM
About stack: I think a bottom base and new actions on top to be default, but just use that triangule simbol just like email apps to choose top or bottom stack.

About Core videos: the auto-sync audio is really sad. The keyboard shortcuts video was really lame: they just shown us simple letters shortcuts, and no combination of letters/alt/ctrl and clicks (rmb/mmb/lmb). No drag and drop! And again, the way Apple uses to assign shortcuts in their apps is fantastic: a full screen keyboard, where you type or can drag commands from the interface or a bottom list, all classified in areas :selection, filters, etc. The areas have colors, so you can see the keys in that color to ease find em.
The SDS performance video are VERY great!!!! I just hope to see something being modeled and also see a high poly model with a lot of detail (arch viz or modeled hair, terrain, mountains, landscape etc).
In the stack video, when twist the model, theres a "widget" that surrounds the model, that shows the amount od twist your applying (2 circles -top and bottom- and a red line that distorts). I think it d great to have the info of the info panel also right in the screen widget, like angle, scale, etc.
Newtek is going in the right direction, but the presentation must be flawless.

kaflinn
03-27-2009, 01:55 PM
Since I've got to re-learn Lightwave anyway, might as well start with a whole new setup. (sucks when life gets in the way of art!). Although - will still being playing with 9.6 as soon as I download the update.

kaflinn
03-27-2009, 01:56 PM
Wow - just noticed that was my first post since the old forums. How sad is that!

OnlineRender
03-27-2009, 02:45 PM
I think NT staff staff are getting slighty bored with all these demands and questions , its only a few days till deadline date , and to be honest i think they have showed enough to make our minds up , granted things didnt run perfect , but they are breaking barriers with technology and i give a big high 5 for the software developers that probably dont see day light .


I think its time to ease off a little and maybe concentrate on the good points .
why cant change anything now ,Core's set in stone , we can only add constructive critism ,which at time us the user can be pretty damn cut to the bone , esp as artists , we have strong views on alot of issues , wait and see how core developes , its not going to move mountians but it will create them ................................

Peace

harlan
03-27-2009, 06:28 PM
Cool thanks for the Core info updates. I'm stoked about it, and see no reason why people couldn't deduce the potential of Core and decide wether or not to buy into it based on the information readily available. It's an exciting time for LW and LW users.

Personally, I haven't bought into Core just yet, but not because I'm on the fence deciding or waiting for more info. I was ready to buy into core the first day the released the info about it - I just don't have the money right now to buy it. Hopefully before the 31st!! :)

Thanks again for keeping us updated Chuck (and Jay and Jarrod)

A Mejias
03-28-2009, 12:26 AM
well if you see how the big 3 apps do it then newtek's core is upsude down...:thumbsdow

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71555&d=1238172078

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71556&d=1238172093

http://www.newtek.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=71546&d=1238125033

Well, maybe they are all doing it wrong and LW is doing it right. :)

Yamba
03-28-2009, 01:22 AM
Cool thanks for the Core info updates. I'm stoked about it, and see no reason why people couldn't deduce the potential of Core and decide wether or not to buy into it based on the information readily available. It's an exciting time for LW and LW users.

Personally, I haven't bought into Core just yet, but not because I'm on the fence deciding or waiting for more info. I was ready to buy into core the first day the released the info about it - I just don't have the money right now to buy it. Hopefully before the 31st!! :)

Thanks again for keeping us updated Chuck (and Jay and Jarrod)

Ditto from me, for what its worth.

Shane

Karmacop
03-28-2009, 01:23 AM
It's true that a stack is a specific thing - new things are placed on top of old things, leaving what was originally there untouched. How a stack works can not be argued, but how it is displayed to the user is a different story. Do you place new operations on top of past operations, or do you place new operations after old operations? Both are equally valid, and the current standard could be a result of programmers creating a program rather than user preference.

ural
03-30-2009, 01:23 PM
so what about dynamices. im dying to see lw core's dynamices:)