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View Full Version : Sweet Jebus, what's the frakking problem?



WShawn
03-23-2009, 02:53 AM
I'm freaking out because I'm unable to get a 400 frame scene rendered because a displacement map I'm using changes each time I try to render the sequence.

I have this nature scene with trees and critters and a stream running down the middle of the scene. I created a subpatch model of the stream bank and surrounding land (Subdivision Order First, Render Subpatch Per Object Level 6.0). To give it a little more detail I'm using Textured Displacement with two layers. The top layer is a gradient based on a weight map on the stream bank acting as an Alpha to the layer below, a hetero Terrain procedural. I'm satisfied with the look.

Up until a few days ago I was rendering low rez drafts that could finish in two or three hours and things looked fine. I'm now attempting a final render, 1280x720, Perspective camera, AS to .04. At that size and quality, the render will take 12-14 hours (over 3 million polys plus FiberFX grass). I usually render overnight, so my plan was to render the scene in chunks (I can't tie up my workstation during the day.)

So I rendered the first 120 frames yesterday. I reopened the exact same scene and set it to render the next 200 frames, but when I checked the render there's a huge change in the stream bank displacement from the first time I rendered the scene and the second time. The stream bank in frames 0-120 looks very different than the same bank in frames 121-on.

I'll reiterate. I made no changes to any of the objects in the scene. It's like each time I open the scene the displacement map does something different to my stream shoreline.

I'm at my wit's end. Right now the only way I can see to deal with this is to turn off the displacement map, but that would make for a really boring shoreline.

I'm running on a 2x3 GHz Quad Core Intel Xeon Mac Pro, LW 9.6 (Release Candidate 12 (Mac 32))

Thanks.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

Sensei
03-23-2009, 04:25 AM
Sounds like your displacement setup is using randomization function that is restarting each time you start render.. My the first thought was- use MDD and bake points to file, and remove displacement..

SplineGod
03-23-2009, 05:49 AM
Why not save out a transformed version of the bank.

WShawn
03-23-2009, 05:16 PM
Why not save out a transformed version of the bank.

Cuz I didn't know about that option?

Thanks for the replies.

You've saved my bacon yet again, Larry, with a ridiculously simple fix. The (mildly) funny thing is that I see that Save Trans Object button day after day, and last week I actually took the time to wonder what it did, but I was slammed and didn't get a chance to look into it. I've been using LW for over 10 years and there's still so much I don't know, or will probably never know.

I'd still like to know why my original displacement texture randomly changed every day, but this workaround seems to work okay.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

SplineGod
03-23-2009, 05:37 PM
I cant recall that ever happening to me but Ive received grief from 9.5+ to not be surprised. Its probably a bug.
BTW you could also use the same trick in modeler.
You could use the same displacement texture to create a weight map. Once you have the weight map use the move tool with the falloff set to weight map and you can pull out the landscape.
Another option is to to use the texture to drive an endomorph.
You can use the texture point plugin in modeler to do both.

Also in layout you can create an endomorph there directly rather then using save transformed.

WShawn
03-23-2009, 06:24 PM
I bought your Get Into Weightmaps video over a year ago but haven't had a chance to watch it. I'm guessing that explains some of the techniques you're talking about here.

Shawn

SplineGod
03-23-2009, 07:08 PM
Definately something you should watch :)

WShawn
03-24-2009, 12:47 PM
So I've got my displaced land working swell by using the Save Trans Object function, but now I'm having a problem with the procedural texture I'm applying to that object jumping around when I do a network render.

Up until now I'd been rendering everything on my 8 core Mac Pro, but since I have so much to render I decided to add my wife's 4 core Mac Pro to the render task using Screamernet. It definitely helped speed up the render last night, but I was dismayed to find the Hybrid Multi-fractal texture I'd applied to the diffuse channel of the land surface was jumping around, I assume because the different machines generated that procedural differently.

So I'm guessing my best solution is to use the Surface Baker Camera and Render buffer view to generate an image of the diffuse channel to apply to a UV map of my land. But it needs to be a pretty big image to get any detail. When I try to render at 8000x8000 or larger I get error messages like "Not enough memory for frame buffers" or "Image creation failed."

How can I get around this?

Thanks.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

4dartist
03-24-2009, 01:56 PM
WShawn, the reason this is all happening is because of the Hetero Terrain procedural. In some of the RC builds, the procedural textures with 'Noise Types' would change patterns upon loading of the scene. So Hetero Terrain, Puffy Clouds, Multi Fractal, etc are all bugged. Turbulence, Crumple, and non-noise based were ok. Rendering on multiple computers would cause a jump.

This pattern change problem is why your terrain displacement would change, and why saving transformed stopped it, and also why you see the changing texture.

This problem is fixed in the final public 9.6 release.

WShawn
03-24-2009, 02:22 PM
Benjamin:

Thanks for the quick reply; I appreciate it.

I was still using that last RC version (released, like, two days before the final) because it had been working for me. There were several times during the Open Beta process where I'd download the latest release, copy over all my plugins and presets, only to find the new release was buggier than the one I'd been using. Also, copying over that stuff day after day got to be a hassle, but since everyone's recommending I move to the final release I'll do that.

Shawn Marshall
Marshall Arts Motion Graphics

4dartist
03-24-2009, 02:37 PM
You bet. I'm pretty confident this will fix your problem. I think you'll be happy with 9.6 public too, the 4 of us that work here and use it all day, everyday, have been pretty happy.

SplineGod
03-24-2009, 11:48 PM
I wish I could agree but Im still finding 9.6 to be fairly crashy. Some things still dont work right such as FFX. I cant work with bones very long before LW crashes. Maybe the texture thing is fixed.

Sensei
03-25-2009, 12:42 AM
Except FFX, that I won't comment.. I don't remember when the last time I saw LW v9.6 crash.. Of course redirection of config dir is a must have..

SplineGod
03-25-2009, 12:48 AM
Speaking of FFx Sensei when will your styling plugin be available? :)

Skonk
03-25-2009, 08:31 AM
9.6 crashes on a regular basis for me when doing nothing more than switching between layers in modeler.

Also getting an odd error in the wireframe views from time to time where the display becomes garbled, switching to another view mode and back fixes it.

Thing is, this happens on my home pc, my work office pc and EVERY student machine we use lightwave on in the college. Thats 40 pc's in total, of different specs, with different GFX cards in.

4dartist
03-25-2009, 08:40 AM
Hum this sounds odd because it usually isn't the case with LW but maybe the windows version of LW is more crash happy. I crash maybe once a day now. Which is fine.

Skonk do you use the hub?

I guess there are varying degrees of stability. Depending on what OS and what parts of LW are used often.

Lumber Joe
04-09-2009, 08:27 AM
Definately something you should watch :)

THat's true :)

4dartist
05-13-2009, 04:06 PM
I need to correct myself... This problem with Hetero Terrain still exists in LW 9.6. It seems to only be the 'perlin noise' Noise Type. Just wasted my time because I displaced some hills and animated a couple vehicles on them, then re-opened the scene and now they are all underground... gah.. So very annoying.

The other noise types don't seem to do it. Also, you have to close/open LW for the change to happen I think.

If anyone else can confirm this and then report it: LW-Bugs email. May help get it fixed.