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Dexter2999
03-17-2009, 03:50 PM
I had started a new topic earlier that involved some current events.

An administrator deemed the material inappropriate to the forums and locked the thread.

I am shocked. It amazes me that a dialog about media manipulation/financial practices/ and media coverage is something that needs to be locked. Yet we have had threads here going on for pages that defame religeous beliefs and political extremes on both ends of the spectrum.

There was no name calling or juvenile behavior in aforementioned thread it was a grown up discussion. And yet it is locked.

If the argument is that the statement is not a Newtek oriented thread. I will respectfully ask that the same measure be applied to all threads on the boards.

OnlineRender
03-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Theres no such thing as free speech anymore ,infact there never was ,only the illusion, people are worried that they may offend or upset at the minor detail , i belive your statement and concerns but as a company ie Newtek they have to protect there customers but mostly there reputation and public persona !

its a sad world that we live in but i can understand the admins choice , its a touchy subject ,as with most these days ..

Lightwolf
03-17-2009, 04:19 PM
An administrator deemed the material inappropriate to the forums and locked the thread.
It looks more like a recent change in policy.

I personally think it's a shame and I'd prefer to have an off topic section to interact with, what I consider to be, extended family. But so be it.

I wonder if a "social group" covering topics like that would be against forum policies or not, but whatever...

Cheers,
Mike
@Zane: It's "avenues", not "avenue's" in this context ;)

IMI
03-17-2009, 04:25 PM
It looks more like a recent change in policy.

I personally think it's a shame and I'd prefer to have an off topic section to interact with, what I consider to be, extended family. But so be it.

I wonder if a "social group" covering topics like that would be agains forum policies or not, but whatever...

Cheers,
Mike
@Zane: It's "avenues", not "avenue's" in this context ;)

Agreed completely. :agree:

Just speculation, but I think they have been receiving complaints, and decided to crack down.
I would imagine a social group would be different, since they're not publicly obvious.
As for the "avenue's", that's a common mistake people make in English... getting plural confused with possessive and all that. I see it all over the place.

*typing quickly to get response in before the locking* ;)

Rod Seffen
03-17-2009, 05:31 PM
You could say that a 'general discussion' section means 'general discussion of CG' in the context of a cg forum. It's assumed that it means general discussion of any subject.
The problem comes when some totally off-topic threads are allowed and others aren't, with no real explanation of why.

Lightwolf
03-17-2009, 05:43 PM
You could say that a 'general discussion' section means 'general discussion of CG' in the context of a cg forum.
Except that it's the general discussion area of the support forums of a company that, amongst other things, also happens to have a cg (as in computer graphics) app in its portfolio.

So in that context it's the general discussion of NewTek, not cg.

Other than that you're right though, which is why an off topic would be a nice gesture, as it seems those topics just come up every now and then.

Cheers,
Mike

jin choung
03-17-2009, 06:41 PM
I had started a new topic earlier that involved some current events.

An administrator deemed the material inappropriate to the forums and locked the thread.

I am shocked. It amazes me that a dialog about media manipulation/financial practices/ and media coverage is something that needs to be locked. Yet we have had threads here going on for pages that defame religeous beliefs and political extremes on both ends of the spectrum.

There was no name calling or juvenile behavior in aforementioned thread it was a grown up discussion. And yet it is locked.

If the argument is that the statement is not a Newtek oriented thread. I will respectfully ask that the same measure be applied to all threads on the boards.

lol....

wow, i had the exact same thing happen to me. and on the exact same topic.

i have a feeling someone's ideologies are being threatened by jon stewart.... either in newtek proper or they're getting complaints by whiners who don't have a leg to stand on and so resort to.... crying.

and it does INDEED seem to be centered around the topic of wall street misbehavior as other topics are fine.

anyway, i mock and ridicule, heap scorn and look with squinted eye at the inarticulate (who died and made you) thought police who go running to the mods. you know who you are.

jin

Rod Seffen
03-17-2009, 07:17 PM
Except that it's the general discussion area of the support forums of a company that, amongst other things, also happens to have a cg (as in computer graphics) app in its portfolio.

So in that context it's the general discussion of NewTek, not cg.

Other than that you're right though, which is why an off topic would be a nice gesture, as it seems those topics just come up every now and then.

Cheers,
Mike

I don't know what difference that would make. It would still be covered by the same forum moderation policy.
If the forum is attached to the newtek forum and open to any member to read, then the same problems and concerns would apply there as here for newtek (I have no idea what their concerns are when members discuss things like the banking crisis or whatever, or how such a discussion could affect anyone in any way, but they obviously are concerned)

adamredwoods
03-17-2009, 07:19 PM
I dont think people are running to the mods. I think it is NT trying to maintain a focus and professional environment.

We naturally want to discuss with each other, because we know we have similar interests: Lightwave and other geeky things. If there is ever a off-topic thread on NewTek, I'd prefer it located at the bottom of the forums.

As for forums having "general chat" threads, it is common.
Gamedev has the lounge, with over 1million threads:
http://www.gamedev.net/community/forums/

Ultimate metal:
http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/

or if you have REALLY thick skin head to:
http://www.12ozprophet.com/forum/

(which BTW was the thread that started posting personal info about Adamsblock and his cameras, threatening him and his girlfriend)
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/12/13/BA7Q14N5S6.DTL&hw=adamsblock&sn=004&sc=555

Zane Condren
03-17-2009, 07:41 PM
The problem is threads on topics devoted to politics or religion etc. Is that they quickly turn into personal attacks. Which is not welcome on these forums. We suggest taking these topics to other forums where topics like the threads I locked are welcomed.

Lightwolf
03-18-2009, 01:50 AM
The problem is threads on topics devoted to politics or religion etc. Is that they quickly turn into personal attacks.
Then again, the last personal attack that led to a ban was in ... a CORE thread.
Most OT threads have been extremely courteous lately, especially if you compare them to some of threads that were around in 2001/2002.

I don't know what difference that would make. It would still be covered by the same forum moderation policy.
Oh absolutely. The only difference is that it's not cg related either.

Now the question is: Which general discussion topics actually make sense in relation to NewTek?

Cheers,
Mike

DiedonD
03-18-2009, 02:13 AM
The problem is threads on topics devoted to politics or religion etc. Is that they quickly turn into personal attacks. Which is not welcome on these forums. We suggest taking these topics to other forums where topics like the threads I locked are welcomed.

Yeah but Dexters thread was about finance! And was a very good one at it too! No personal offense at all!

Then, the thread about countries, there were attacks there, but they got moderated away, and right when we were telling of each others cultures and stereotypes it got closed!

Was it a coin that got in the Arcade game later on thing?

Meaning, was that thread closed due to complains that were carried out later on, and happen to be executed at a moment when the thread was cool?

DiedonD
03-18-2009, 02:30 AM
Thats just to name a few! There were alotta threads that went down like that!

I think you guys started worrying and trying to force focus these threads on NT and NT only, after there were complains about certain users on another forums! And we were gathering around for a strikeback!

Ultimately, those strikes mightve been tracked to their base, which is here, and might lead to some sort of suit afterwards! Was that it?

Alternatively it may be because this whole CORE thing should get more attention isnt it?

Meaning that its temporarily! Cause otherwise I think, we are adults here and surely can take a carefully carried out joke!

IMI
03-18-2009, 02:33 AM
Then again, the last personal attack that led to a ban was in ... a CORE thread.



Based on the threads I've been following and participated in, actually the last *several* bans occurred during the course of LW CORE and CG-related subjects


There were two or three threads recently that were preemptively locked, such as this one in question, but as you know, there were several political and religious threads recently which went on for a looonnngggg time with very little trouble at all and no need for bans.

Equally, there have been other OT threads recently which showed every bit as much indication as the recently-closed ones that they might be headed towards flaming, which survived just fine with no proactive, preemptive locking down.

*shrug*

I kinda miss being able to discuss political, religious, and and social issues with you guys here, but have been trying to stay out of those threads because it gets annoying to get involved in a discussion only to have it locked a few hours or a day later.

You ought to start up "Lightwolf's Political Smackdown" Social Group and see how it goes over. :devil:

Lightwolf
03-18-2009, 02:38 AM
*shrug*
Yup.

You ought to start up "Lightwolf's Political Smackdown" Social Group and see how it goes over. :devil:
Lol. Suprisingly I never started any of the threads... but I've never been shy in participating.

I suppose a social group wouldn't be that bad an idea though. :newtek: Zane?

Cheers,
Mike

DiedonD
03-18-2009, 02:40 AM
You ought to start up "Lightwolf's Political Smackdown" Social Group and see how it goes over. :devil:

Where though? Somewhere in here? Somewhere at the bottom! Like a bunch of shameful people, hiding away their comments from the world! What are we doing here! Somekinda S&M Orgy that deserves such a shameful treatment!

If you say somewhere else, than all the fun will ba carried out to another place! And all the CG and CG only stuff would be put in here! That might lead to an overall less numbers posting situation!

shrox
03-18-2009, 03:29 AM
It's probably that a mod noticed one, and didn't notice another. You really have to follow a thread to see where it goes, and with hundreds posted every day, I doubt they monitor all of them.

People have sigs that might not be appreciated by some, but I have never heard of someone being told to change it.

OnlineRender
03-18-2009, 03:38 AM
Hey i would be happy to be a mod for this site if they need a hand , im pratically never off the forum now , kinda sad to be honest !

DiedonD
03-18-2009, 03:54 AM
Me too! Id be happy to be a mod :) Id treat almost everyone as equal LOL

And would apply my codes and my beliefs on weather a thread should or shouldnt be closed.

Id be a wicked mod, yeah!! :D

Seriosly though. Since they dont have the time, howabout a position of a voted mod? Someone that has more time, like some of us here.

IMI
03-18-2009, 04:09 AM
Lots of people volunteered to do that back when the SPAM-bots were out in full force last year, and they didn't go for it.
Modding here seems to be entirely NT staff.

OnlineRender
03-18-2009, 04:13 AM
Lots of people volunteered to do that back when the SPAM-bots were out in full force last year, and they didn't go for it.
Modding here seems to be entirely NT staff.


thats the way it should be i suppose ,means nothing can get thrown back in there faces if something goes wrong !

DiedonD
03-18-2009, 04:21 AM
If theres a voted mod doing about, than nothing gets thrown to their faces anyway! Theyd just point the finger on the voted mod!

akademus
03-18-2009, 09:39 AM
I was surprised how many threads and discussions here goes unnoticed by moderators.

Rod is right, General Discussion means CG related general discussion, e.g. movies, interviews, industry news and so on. At least on every other forum dedicated to the same thing like this one.

Fights and personal attacks, politics and religion discussion are no fun at all. If someone think so, he should join forums dedicated to that.

I suggest we vote for cleaning this section and forums from things unrelated to CG.

Who is in?

Oedo 808
03-18-2009, 09:54 AM
For what it's worth I am vehemently opposed to this, from my perspective things have been fine for the most part, and as I've said before, no thread in General Discussions is required reading.

Just my point of view.

shrox
03-18-2009, 09:57 AM
...I suggest we vote for cleaning this section and forums from things unrelated to CG.

Who is in?

No, let the chips fall where they may. But do realize, we are the ones throwing the chips...

Lightwolf
03-18-2009, 10:12 AM
Rod is right, General Discussion means CG related general discussion, e.g. movies, interviews, industry news and so on. At least on every other forum dedicated to the same thing like this one.
Not in this case, as we're talking about the NewTek Forums General Discussion, not the LightWave 3D General Discussions (which don't exist).
Last time I checked NT also sold products that aren't CG related.

Fights and personal attacks..
That is definitely an area where a line must be drawn, and where it has been drawn in the past (as especially you and Rod know).

...politics and religion discussion are no fun at all.
The problem is they mix with CG. Add some actual content to any CG imagery and you'll quickly enter in any of these realms. Add to that the fact that (especially currently) a lot of users seem to be directly hit by political decisions (which in turn affects their CG).
The same goes for movies, as an example - unless we just focus on the techniques used.

Cheers,
Mike

OnlineRender
03-18-2009, 10:25 AM
Not in this case, as we're talking about the NewTek Forums General Discussion, not the LightWave 3D General Discussions (which don't exist).
Last time I checked NT also sold products that aren't CG related.

That is definitely an area where a line must be drawn, and where it has been drawn in the past (as especially you and Rod know).

The problem is they mix with CG. Add some actual content to any CG imagery and you'll quickly enter in any of these realms. Add to that the fact that (especially currently) a lot of users seem to be directly hit by political decisions (which in turn affects their CG).
The same goes for movies, as an example - unless we just focus on the techniques used.

Cheers,
Mike



Spot on ! people have failed to mentioned that the economy has crashed but inturn more CG work is getting thrown the UK way "cheaper", or so the lead technical director of blackrock said ,suppose we can thank Gordon Brown for something !

Riff_Masteroff
03-18-2009, 11:33 AM
Yes, NewTek/LightWave should be inter operable and integrated within society. LightWolf is spot on. I vote for unlocking the bonus thread. Also it would be nice if NewTek included some easter eggs within CORE.

OnlineRender
03-18-2009, 11:36 AM
Ye i vote for AREA51 section on the board , whos with me :P :beta:

adamredwoods
03-18-2009, 02:00 PM
I can see where NT wouldn't want their forums to be overrun by political and religious forum battles. Best to have these forums focused on their products, since it's their products that are paying for it..... but hey! it's like chatting over the "water cooler".

THe best solution is to find a different forum, one that allows avatars, is slightly scientific/graphic oriented.
http://www.geekforum.org/

or
http://forums.db-w.com/

(hehe!) ;D

Lightwolf
03-18-2009, 02:20 PM
http://forums.db-w.com/

Believe it or not but we actually discussed that yesterday. We wouldn't want to pull any traffic off NT. However, if our community of users would desire those kinds of conversations we'd have no problem (and add an area for them).
As it stands, our forums are pretty much a pure support area (something we can't control, it takes a bit of critical mass to take off). I'd think that the NT ones are more than that, a meeting place for a community.

Cheers,
Mike

akademus
03-18-2009, 02:37 PM
No, let the chips fall where they may. But do realize, we are the ones throwing the chips...

Well, honestly, I'm not really sure we can make that big difference. With this being owned forum and such.


Not in this case, as we're talking about the NewTek Forums General Discussion, not the LightWave 3D General Discussions (which don't exist).
Last time I checked NT also sold products that aren't CG related.

That is definitely an area where a line must be drawn, and where it has been drawn in the past (as especially you and Rod know).

The problem is they mix with CG. Add some actual content to any CG imagery and you'll quickly enter in any of these realms. Add to that the fact that (especially currently) a lot of users seem to be directly hit by political decisions (which in turn affects their CG).
The same goes for movies, as an example - unless we just focus on the techniques used.

Cheers,
Mike

Pretty much all Newtek products involve Computer Generated Imagery whether it is computer animation or not. Add simple subtitles and you have CG :D Better word would be Graphics I guess.

Hmm... I find it particularly interesting that this is THE only forum I actually got in fight with anyone (and got temp banned once and only for a hazy reason) and I'm a member of several CG forums for more than 5 years now.
Main problem lies in people getting banned for a reasons far away from CG related questions and when it actually comes to discussing something interesting (like actual techniques and comments) or posting works they are unable to participate. I've seen most active people here getting temp banned here and then for fairly stupid reasons.

Politics and religion don't mix with CG graphics unless they are artistic expression. Even then there is a line between art and propaganda.

Anyhow, only strict moderation can get this section back on tracks and as much as I see it is happening. We have more and more CG related stuff here.

kopperdrake
03-18-2009, 02:40 PM
Pretty much every forum I frequent has an OT section - it's only natural that people who mingle regularly within a shared professional arena invariably will discuss other topics as they build relationship, and they learn to respect each other enough to take the time to listen to each others' views. To deny this is, in a sense, forcing an unnatural angle on things and makes people wary of broaching certain subjects in a way similar to that which they would use for complete strangers. I see people on here more than just strangers and hence it feels strange to have forbidden topics, especially when it is a topic of utmost significance in our every day lives.

If a natural or man-made disaster occured which affected us as a community I wonder if that would also be clamped down on?

IMI
03-18-2009, 02:52 PM
Pretty much every forum I frequent has an OT section - it's only natural that people who mingle regularly within a shared professional arena invariably will discuss other topics as they build relationship, and they learn to respect each other enough to take the time to listen to each others' views. To deny this is, in a sense, forcing an unnatural angle on things and makes people wary of broaching certain subjects in a way similar to that which they would use for complete strangers. I see people on here more than just strangers and hence it feels strange to have forbidden topics, especially when it is a topic of utmost significance in our every day lives.

Total agreement, well-stated. :thumbsup:



If a natural or man-made disaster occured which affected us as a community I wonder if that would also be clamped down on?

Depends on whom such disasters were being blamed...

Was it the conservatives causing Global Warming and thus killer hurricanes, floods and tsunamis?
Did the liberals set the stage for an economic meltdown?

And so on....

Any kind of disaster is eventually going to lead in that direction. ;)

lwanmtr
03-18-2009, 03:13 PM
Whats the big deal? So, NewTek doesnt want political or religous threads on their site. It's their site, they can decide what they want to allow. Are they saying no off topic threads? No...just nothing religon or politically aimed. Its not censorship, it's not some diabolical attempt at mind control or to control freedom of speech..they just want to keep the site kinda focused and civil.

And while you can use the argument that recent bans have been core related, you can't deny that threads on politics and religion can get out af hand real fast..I've looked at some here, and you can see the emotional turmoil building in them..luckily most of those lose interest pretty fast, but thats not always the case.

IMI
03-18-2009, 03:38 PM
Whats the big deal? So, NewTek doesnt want political or religous threads on their site. It's their site, they can decide what they want to allow. Are they saying no off topic threads? No...just nothing religon or politically aimed. Its not censorship, it's not some diabolical attempt at mind control or to control freedom of speech..they just want to keep the site kinda focused and civil.


Why jump to such extremes? I don't think anyone here in this thread has been saying any of that.

DiedonD
03-19-2009, 01:13 AM
Who says that political, religious, movies, games even comic books must ultimately get to personal attacks.

Even Zane says that the reason that they dont like Political and Religious threads, is because its hot and beeing in that state, has a greater potential at having personal attacks!

Meaning. That even if someone personally attacks another, be it in a completely On Topic thread like, weather to use the Pen or Points in making polys, they there can still be banned!

I mean Rod got banned while criticizing to the point of attacking someone that was on a CG related thread!

So was Stooch I think!

I got temporarily banned cause one of my best threads EVER (See siggy - Independence) where screwed up by someone, and I was posesed by PTSD war related outrage symptoms, and was attacking that one with that on another thread! He found my ordeal amusing and didnt want to stop, with the plan of wanting me banned (I got back to you though didnt I :devil: ) and surely needed to cool off. Its all history now.

And can only come out straight and confess that NT did a right thing while was at it. And theres always a very good reason for one to get banned. Though, like any other criminal that may get temporarily imprisoned in real life would probably say 'I was innocent, and am locked for a stupid reason!'

In any case. What Im getting at is this. The bottom line is that as long as it doesnt gets to a personal attacks, however it may be called for (and I for one was severly called for it in more than one occasion) they are more willing to tolerate the otherwise openly stated not allowed topics!

And if we want to know each other better, not only be 'trapped in a MUST be CG Topics', then we should respect that! Cause with that tolerance they are reaching out for us! Understanding our issues, and compromising! That just MUST be respected, thus personal attacks should be avoided to the best one can master!

Why do they do that? Cause theyre just like us man! You think theyre completely away from politics! Nah, theyre political junkies like us here :) . And surely... some very sensitive threads await to be opened, like the infamous 9/11, the 4th, the 17th and such, where I for one feel that I simply MUST say something to solidarize with my ocean away friends (ban or even kill me afterwards if you will) in the first two such threads, or await such posts from them in the third one.

Come to think of it! Why dont you, my mainland Europe and GB people also openup your Countries celebrations? Id like to take part on those tooo you know! Its not only Kosova - USA thing here! Dont want you to think that Im ungrateful for your parts on it you know...

colkai
03-19-2009, 04:50 AM
Have to say, I totally disagree on this.
I'm with Newtek here really, I personally am getting very fed up of a lot of thread dissolving into religion / politics / personal rants. When I come to the forums to read stuff about LW / 3D and related general discussion, not just "CG" but related to the field and the people therein, it right royally ticks me off when a thread that is theoretically about CG ends up being all about some persons opinion on one thing or another.

I think some 'forum cleanup' is long overdue, if people want to talk politics I just don't think this is the place to do it. It would not be tolerated on many other boards so I don't see why Newtek should have to do so.
Wading through diatribe and rants which, I'm sorry, DO end up personal, is just depressing. Why do they end up personal? Easy, tow people with diametrically opposed points of view, refusing to move from their standpoint argue ad infinitum, sooner or later, it ends up in "yo momma..." type slanging matches.
"I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts" is a good summation of the pointlessness of such threads.

If people want rants against politics etc, then why not start a facebook site or summat where they can sling mud at each other all day? Keep these boards with some semblance of info to noise levels.

DiedonD
03-19-2009, 05:35 AM
Why do they end up personal? Easy, tow people with diametrically opposed points of view, refusing to move from their standpoint argue ad infinitum, sooner or later, it ends up in "yo momma..." type slanging matches.

Well I think it has moved on from that. There were certain insecutirities regarding religion in another thread, and some of us gathered to address those insecurities, and it ended up fine in the end. Just like it should be.

Thats why I say. The type of people that I see here, including you Collin, theres usually a long way to go before there is a personal attack. With some involvement from our side, it may not reach that stage.

Again, I think we can speak out laud any topic, just as long as we respect the mods tolerance, thus dont personally attack.

They compromise in allowing OT Threads, even though its a rule not to, then we should also do our compromise and not be involved in Personal Attacks! Fair deal if youd ask me!

Moving to another place, would replace the energy, thus the flow of posts from here to there. Why should it be to the cost of NT Forums post flows?

To the contrary, they should come from there to here instead!

colkai
03-19-2009, 05:54 AM
Moving to another place, would replace the energy, thus the flow of posts from here to there. Why should it be to the cost of NT Forums post flows?
Surely though, simply saying "ooh, let's post to keep the bandwidth up" isn't really the point?
I'm quite sure Newtek would be happy if they saved some on bandwidth because of the loss of some pointless threads. Kinda like saying, "ohh, switch every light on so we use lots of electricity", not a constructive action within itself.

Anyhow, I'm done here to avoid said bandwidth, Newtek will decide what will be tolerated and which threads live and die, as it should be, their servers, their money.

DiedonD
03-19-2009, 06:03 AM
The issue is that we are multi colored people. Yes LW is one of them! Yes Art is one of them! But gdamnit we have backgrounds and we are into way too many other things aswell than only focusing on them two!

Speaking for myself, I dont seekout any thread, and do my attempts to hijack it, or purposely open up OT threads on daily basis. Im just lookin forward to have a chat, a dialogue, explain some issues, leave a good remark, make some friends, and get back to real life again.

The issue that Politics and Religion are hotter than the rest, is just because there are more tighter positions on them than in other areas. Otherwise its just another thread to meet interesting people.

cagey5
03-19-2009, 06:16 AM
Have to say, I totally disagree on this.
I'm with Newtek here really, I personally am getting very fed up of a lot of thread dissolving into religion / politics / personal rants. When I come to the forums to read stuff about LW / 3D and related general discussion, not just "CG" but related to the field and the people therein, it right royally ticks me off when a thread that is theoretically about CG ends up being all about some persons opinion on one thing or another.

I think some 'forum cleanup' is long overdue, if people want to talk politics I just don't think this is the place to do it. It would not be tolerated on many other boards so I don't see why Newtek should have to do so.
Wading through diatribe and rants which, I'm sorry, DO end up personal, is just depressing. Why do they end up personal? Easy, tow people with diametrically opposed points of view, refusing to move from their standpoint argue ad infinitum, sooner or later, it ends up in "yo momma..." type slanging matches.
"I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts" is a good summation of the pointlessness of such threads.

If people want rants against politics etc, then why not start a facebook site or summat where they can sling mud at each other all day? Keep these boards with some semblance of info to noise levels.


Quoted for agreement. :agree:

Rod Seffen
03-19-2009, 06:59 AM
Have to say, I totally disagree on this.
I'm with Newtek here really, I personally am getting very fed up of a lot of thread dissolving into religion / politics / personal rants. When I come to the forums to read stuff about LW / 3D and related general discussion, not just "CG" but related to the field and the people therein, it right royally ticks me off when a thread that is theoretically about CG ends up being all about some persons opinion on one thing or another.

I think some 'forum cleanup' is long overdue, if people want to talk politics I just don't think this is the place to do it. It would not be tolerated on many other boards so I don't see why Newtek should have to do so.
Wading through diatribe and rants which, I'm sorry, DO end up personal, is just depressing. Why do they end up personal? Easy, tow people with diametrically opposed points of view, refusing to move from their standpoint argue ad infinitum, sooner or later, it ends up in "yo momma..." type slanging matches.
"I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with facts" is a good summation of the pointlessness of such threads.

If people want rants against politics etc, then why not start a facebook site or summat where they can sling mud at each other all day? Keep these boards with some semblance of info to noise levels.

Total nonsense.
People can have diametrically opposing viewpoints on ANY subject, including on-topic CG, so ad hominem tactics are by no means limited to political or religious threads, (see the core thread, or any of my bans as oddity which were all in on-topic gallery threads)
Specifically banning religious or political discussion will not stop 'slanging matches' occurring.

Otterman
03-19-2009, 07:05 AM
Since this is a CG community it makes sense to discuss all things CG, share ideas, offer techniques and critique other peoples work. There is a whole wealth of talent and knowledge on this forum and its kinda wasted on pointless discussions most of the time. I mean I notice that the rate at which threads in the General Discussion accumulate are bananas! This annoys the heck outta me because its detriment to the other areas of the forums....the ones that are more productive and fruitful.

I do understand that we need to let off steam from time to time but come on.....some of you guys are professional moaner...not here to post work or offer advise.

Mind, here i am contirbuting to another OT thread......what does that make me.

IMI
03-19-2009, 07:11 AM
.....some of you guys are professional moaner...



That's not true at all. I've never once been paid to moan. :D

colkai
03-19-2009, 08:17 AM
Total nonsense.
...
my bans as oddity which were all in on-topic gallery threads)
Specifically banning religious or political discussion will not stop 'slanging matches' occurring.

Ok, I'll reply to this, it's kinda my point, when threads result in the back and forth that have caused you to be banned many times, I do not see how they could ever be called constructive.
Mayhap I wasn't too clear, I wasn't talking JUST about religion and politics, but when threads spiral into "I say" "you say", which you know from personal experience, have never, ever, come out well.
The parties involved also I have to say, do not come out shining from such "playful banter".

I'm more for whuping slanging matches of any type, call me draconian by all means. When the revolution comes, you WILL ride motorcycles! :devil:

OnlineRender
03-19-2009, 08:43 AM
Ok this has to be ended , the original post was to highlight that there should be a balance on the forum , for example why should one user get to post about something ,when another user posts maybe not the same issue but follows the same generic path and gets locked down , i think the new thread button is over used "mainly by myself " and yes there are topics which should be open and free to speak about , the thing about running ANY forum is that people can be easily offended and easily misunderstood , being someone that cant spell , i know all about this first hand . being a mod and MVP i spend a lot of time reading other peoples points and perspectives , and i can see that the conversation will easily spiral out of control , so in-turn i shut the post down before someone gets verbally hurt ! NT forum is about NT products that's the whole point , if you look at AD site , they have several chapters for each product which do not conflict with each other , NT have crammed all there products into one single page , which at times can get rather complicated , i reckon more people should spend there time posting on the work in progress or finished art pages , new artists like myself need help from the older and wiser artists , i love to hear another artist which you know has a great CV behind them commenting on your work , even if its to criticize !

If you have Strong values and something you have to say , by all means say what you think , but do not get caught up something that will cause offence or hurt someone !

by what i can see NT staff have the forum as there default web page on there browser and yes sometimes they miss things , after all the cant watch the whole internet :)

its up to us the user to give advice and share information ,maybe it be CG or not but at least post in approaite section or another site , if you feel the post will cause in hostility

But hey what do i know !

Peace

Rod Seffen
03-19-2009, 09:02 AM
Ok, I'll reply to this, it's kinda my point, when threads result in the back and forth that have caused you to be banned many times, I do not see how they could ever be called constructive.
Mayhap I wasn't too clear, I wasn't talking JUST about religion and politics, but when threads spiral into "I say" "you say", which you know from personal experience, have never, ever, come out well.
The parties involved also I have to say, do not come out shining from such "playful banter".

I'm more for whuping slanging matches of any type, call me draconian by all means. When the revolution comes, you WILL ride motorcycles! :devil:

Well I happen to enjoy heated debates as much as you hate them, as long as they don't get too out of hand obviously, but I think my idea of 'out of hand' would be different to yours. If I was a mod I probably wouldn't step in until the point where the parties were threatening to kill each others kids (or for some of you metal cases around here, threatening to kill each others cats, which is a more heinous crime)
The original point remains however, that simply banning religious and political threads will not solve any problems.

adamredwoods
03-19-2009, 11:02 AM
I think NT should keep the forums clear of religious and political threads. Keeps it simple. Keeps it real...

Keepin it real, CG STYLE, yo!

mattclary
03-19-2009, 11:10 AM
Theres no such thing as free speech anymore ,infact there never was ,only the illusion

That is incorrect. He is very free to start his own message board and post whatever he wants there. THAT is what free speech is. When you join a message board that belongs to someone else, they get to call the shots.

OnlineRender
03-19-2009, 11:15 AM
i hear that !

mattclary
03-19-2009, 11:30 AM
and it does INDEED seem to be centered around the topic of wall street misbehavior as other topics are fine.



Yeah, it struck me as odd too. They've been pretty go-with-the-flow on a lot of political topics, seemed weird they would come down on that when it's something everyone seems to agree on for a change.

OnlineRender
03-19-2009, 11:40 AM
Yeah, it struck me as odd too. They've been pretty go-with-the-flow on a lot of political topics, seemed weird they would come down on that when it's something everyone seems to agree on for a change.


THE NEWTEK DECEPTION lol

mattclary
03-19-2009, 11:57 AM
Maybe NewTek is getting some bailout money! ;)

IMI
03-19-2009, 04:59 PM
You know.... that you really set yourself up for some REALLY good responses to this, don't you? :D

Get your mind out of the gutter. This is a family website. :D

jasonwestmas
03-19-2009, 05:06 PM
I was surprised how many threads and discussions here goes unnoticed by moderators.

Rod is right, General Discussion means CG related general discussion, e.g. movies, interviews, industry news and so on. At least on every other forum dedicated to the same thing like this one.

Fights and personal attacks, politics and religion discussion are no fun at all. If someone think so, he should join forums dedicated to that.

I suggest we vote for cleaning this section and forums from things unrelated to CG.

Who is in?

LAME. . .A General Discussion thread is just that. Don't look if you aren't interested, pretty easy.

jasonwestmas
03-19-2009, 05:07 PM
Well I happen to enjoy heated debates as much as you hate them, as long as they don't get too out of hand obviously, but I think my idea of 'out of hand' would be different to yours. If I was a mod I probably wouldn't step in until the point where the parties were threatening to kill each others kids (or for some of you metal cases around here, threatening to kill each others cats, which is a more heinous crime)
The original point remains however, that simply banning religious and political threads will not solve any problems.

LOL, righton.

IMI
03-19-2009, 05:11 PM
I suggest we vote for cleaning this section and forums from things unrelated to CG.


Vote?
You mean like so many who voted to not have the ajax viewer - in a public poll by NT themselves no less... and yet still it's there? ;)

Oedo 808
03-19-2009, 05:13 PM
Chuck Norris wants to kick some asses for suggesting that the thread about his website has no place to be here.

I'm with Chuck on this one.

cagey5
03-20-2009, 03:21 AM
Vote?
You mean like so many who voted to not have the ajax viewer - in a public poll by NT themselves no less... and yet still it's there? ;)

Exactly! Down with Ajax! Seriously, what was the point of that poll?

mattclary
03-20-2009, 08:34 AM
What ajax? ;)

Click pictures with your scrollwheel and keep reading while the picture is opened in a new tab.

IMI
03-20-2009, 01:09 PM
What ajax? ;)

Click pictures with your scrollwheel and keep reading while the picture is opened in a new tab.

Or ctrl+click, too.
Yeah, yeah, we know, we know... but it's even worse when you know and you accidentally left click, then hit the back arrow and find yourself totally off the page you were at before clicking. Happens to me every now and then.

Glendalough
03-21-2009, 10:26 AM
Must say I too disagree with this idea of locking OT threads and find the practice a bit shocking or a step in the wrong direction, for more than a few reasons.

The refreshing openness here at Newtek (until recent Fascist assault _Ho-Ho) has made it one of the best and most entertaining forums on the web. Many forums are dull and commercial to the point of odiousness

The whole CG, Film and Print, artistic world is tied too close to things like politics and religion among other incendiary topics to pretend otherwise. Without the real world and life, things can just deteriorate to trivial shoptalk.

The idea to go to some other suitable forum to post won't work. You don't know who you are talking to or who is speaking, thus you don't really have that much respect or interest for their opinions. On the other hand, I can understand the 'Other Point of View', it's just wrong unfortunately. Or maybe Americans & Some Others just like to talk, pontificate too much.

jasonwestmas
03-21-2009, 11:52 AM
The refreshing openness here at Newtek (until recent Fascist assault _Ho-Ho) has made it one of the best and most entertaining forums on the web. Many forums are dull and commercial to the point of odiousness

The whole CG, Film and Print, artistic world is tied too close to things like politics and religion among other incendiary topics to pretend otherwise. Without the real world and life, things can just deteriorate to trivial shoptalk.


Agreed.

I was thinking about what exactly was wrong with restricting everything to CG and film stuff but I couldn't find the right thing to say. I think you got it. It's the commercial world that we live in that is ok but really it doesn't offer much on a personal end. Personality and the values within are occassionally a really nice if not adventurous territory and I really like to see it expressed within the context of the graphics world, (Though some times it is not relevant at all to art or graphics). Regardless, personable talk beyond a commerical context here actually makes me more interested in CG not less interested.

bobakabob
03-21-2009, 05:42 PM
Newtek have always been remarkably tolerant of discussion here and long may they continue. This debate is a perfect example... And it's usually only when threads get overly political and / or personal that they get locked. Which is perfectly reasonable. It's a graphics forum with a global audience of cgi enthusiasts and professionals not a private soapbox for any dingbat or ego who hasn't read the netiquette rules. Btw I've been there :)

ted
03-22-2009, 11:13 AM
It's a graphics forum with a global audience of cgi enthusiasts and professionals not a private soapbox for any dingbat or ego who hasn't read the netiquette rules. Btw I've been there :)

To set the record straight....there are a couple video production professionals in here too. It's not just for CGI.
Maybe you noticed the number of threads OTHER than LightWave. :D

jasonwestmas
03-22-2009, 11:39 AM
I didn't forget you Ted, I just so happened to say CG and "FILM".

Dexter2999
03-22-2009, 11:54 AM
To set the record straight....there are a couple video production professionals in here too. It's not just for CGI.
Maybe you noticed the number of threads OTHER than LightWave. :D

Who let the Tricaster guy out??

You! Back into your corner. We've been over this before. There 10,000 virtual square feet of space here. You video guys get 10 of it. The rest is ours! Why do you think we keep pushing your sections of the forum to the bottom?

Look at this!! He tracked "video production" all over the place. Man, I'm gonna hafta hire a professional to get this cleaned.

Go play with your Globecaster or something. ;)

IMI
03-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Who let the Tricaster guy out??

You! Back into your corner. We've been over this before. There 10,000 virtual square feet of space here. You video guys get 10 of it. The rest is ours! Why do you think we keep pushing your sections of the forum to the bottom?

Look at this!! He tracked "video production" all over the place. Man, I'm gonna hafta hire a professional to get this cleaned.

Go play with your Globecaster or something. ;)

:lol:

Take that, Ted!

ted
03-22-2009, 03:57 PM
:D
Go play with your Globecaster or something. ;)

Ouch, that hurt! :hey: But I do still have two collecting dust and selling a part here and there.
I'll go back to my 10% Video corner now. :D

DiedonD
03-23-2009, 02:44 AM
:D

Ouch, that hurt! :hey: But I do still have two collecting dust and selling a part here and there.
I'll go back to my 10% Video corner now. :D

Well he did pronounced Lightwave correctly! I think we should let another 1% just for that ;)

Just to set an example to the rest of non LW-ers you know...