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cresshead
03-05-2009, 07:34 AM
i don't know about you but i have a distinct feeling that some people with any positive views toward lightwave are simply not wanted anywhere on that forum.

are the powers that be so worried about lightwave?

share and discuss:D

*Pete*
03-05-2009, 07:40 AM
that is more or less the same feeling i have as well..its not really easy for me to find examples of it as im there so seldom, but my view on CGTalk is the same as on 3DWorld magazine...usefull, informative and with an agenda against LW.

both regulary write about events in the CG world and write about every application used in movies, games or commercials and nearly always "forgetting" to mention that LW was a part of it...even if sometimes it had a major part.

it is sad, hopefully it will change with CORE, specially as if NT manages to get core where they seem to be aiming at, then CORE will be too important player to simply ignore the way LW has been ignored in the recent years.

cagey5
03-05-2009, 07:46 AM
Sorry Cress, this sounds like another excuse to ***** about those over there, as opposed to us over here and such threads only go one way.

I don't frequent CGtalk often and don't have any strong views on it, but if I felt aggrieved by their moderation I'd have an PM message with the mods or avoid as an alternative, but throwing stones rarely results in anything constructive.

I know you didn't mean it that way and sorry for wearing my serious hat but I'm really not much of a 'them and us' guy.

IMI
03-05-2009, 07:50 AM
Why? Did something new happen over there?

If Autodesk bought Newtek, next year Autodesk Core 2010 would be the greatest thing since subpatched bread.

But it doesn't really matter much in the big scheme of things what the CGS people - or even us - think anyway. Artists are just mean, angry people who need *something* to b1tch about. ;)

MAUROCOR
03-05-2009, 07:52 AM
I totally agree with you! I donīt know why but some times look like people there ust hate LW.
I have seen really good works that was done with LW but normally they receive bad comments and crits.
I think the LW community should participate more in CGTalk and suport better each other.

cresshead
03-05-2009, 07:54 AM
i would ave posted something over there but the last mod post let it be known that any 'comments' would result in banning...so no free speech anymore..the only way is 'their way'

Nicolas Jordan
03-05-2009, 08:00 AM
The moderator Roberto Ortiz seems to be a Lightwave supporter over at CG Society.

cresshead
03-05-2009, 08:07 AM
there are other moderators with their own game plan i think

akademus
03-05-2009, 08:14 AM
I'm a member for a long time now and I always speak openly about LW and never had any troubles.

Cheers

beverins
03-05-2009, 08:23 AM
To be fair, Roberto did implore us to go over there and take part in their challenges. No prizes, admittedly, but the sense of competition drives us forward LOL

I tried with the science fiction lighting challenge myself - however the one thing which skews it away from my abilities with the lighting challenge is that it has an unwritten guideline of texturing and stuff like that - which is understandable because textures and materials will catch light differently.

But Roberto makes it a firm goal that every challenge posted has an LWO in there (flipped normals and weird surfaces notwithstanding - I suppose thats part of the challenge too) which I very do much appreciate. And if nothing else, these challenges are Free 3D Meshes that you can DL and use for your own things. IN fact, the current science fiction / robot mesh is now being used as a render-benchmarking scene for some sites.

So while I agree that CGTalk isn't the friendliest board for Lightwave users, I will say that I've found some interesting comments in there that basically say "LW's awesome but I'm forced to use something else".

Another thing that bugs me about the general tone of the site is the stress on Photorealism, Monsters, Women (particularly Asian women), more Monsters and the odd cartoon character. I suppose since most of the content is generated by the users that can't be helped, but I find that it becomes rather boring after awhile. There are occasional standouts of course and their large challenges where prizes are awarded DO turn out some quite amazing work now and again.

Of course, having a super-moderator there who seems to have a personal grudge against Newtek is unfortunate.

Titus
03-05-2009, 08:57 AM
So while I agree that CGTalk isn't the friendliest board for Lightwave users, I will say that I've found some interesting comments in there that basically say "LW's awesome but I'm forced to use something else".


It's weird to hear this in the same forum people usually say the same with Blender. This forum is as open minded as others.

IMI
03-05-2009, 09:05 AM
there are other moderators with their own game plan i think

To a certain extent you're right, but does it really matter? I think you just still have a bad taste in your mouth after what happened with your chart there.
Of course I believe you have every right to be pissed off about that, and I agree several people there used that as an excuse to vent. To vent about what, I'm not sure, but some of the conclusions they drew were.... illogical and even immature.

But if you're having new problems there it's probably because you kicked open the hornet's nest. Inadvertently, yeah, but then you brought it here, which I'm sure got noticed.

Just let it go, man. Life goes on. :)

Andyjaggy
03-05-2009, 09:09 AM
well it's simple, it's because non of us every post there. The Lightwave forums are dead there, because hardly any of us participate (myself included) and Lightwave users seldom if ever post any work, so would is the general populate who visits CGtalk supposed to think? They see no LW presence and think it is dead. So it's as much our fault as anyone's.

Not that I really care a whole lot, I seem to find plenty of work without ever visiting the prestigious CGtalk.

biliousfrog
03-05-2009, 09:14 AM
I've never witnessed anything on there that is anti-lightwave. If you post something that is good it will get good feedback, if it isn't so good it won't. It's a board frequented by people in all different industries, the standard is generally very high and anything posted is normally scrutinized closely. I've seen a lot of people assume that Lightwave created stuff has been done in Max, Maya etc. but never heard of anyone making a negative comment against the app itself.

I have actually only recently started using these boards, I much preferred CGTalk but it has gone quiet lately. I've always seen the value of true criticism and advice, not just a pat on the back from friends and collegues which is the impression I get from here. I only really use Lightwave for 3d stuff but I don't consider myself a 'Lightwaver', I'm just a 3d guy that happens to use Lightwave, so I find the sickly fanboy attitude from the vast majority of users irritating...and I suspect that non-Lightwave users find it even more annoying.

I like how friendly this forum is but Lightwave users in general are very introverted creatures, sticking with their own kind for fear of someone making fun of their software. Rather than scurrying away to the safety of this little nest, create some great visuals and show the world that you can produce work just as well as people using Max and Maya....maybe then we'll all gain a little more respect?

JeffrySG
03-05-2009, 09:29 AM
well it's simple, it's because non of us every post there. The Lightwave forums are dead there, because hardly any of us participate (myself included) and Lightwave users seldom if ever post any work, so would is the general populate who visits CGtalk supposed to think? They see no LW presence and think it is dead. So it's as much our fault as anyone's.

Not that I really care a whole lot, I seem to find plenty of work without ever visiting the prestigious CGtalk.

:agree:

My favorite areas of CGT are the areas where people are not really talking about software specific stuff. As a creative resource I really like it, although I don't find that I'm on the site too often. But as a LW source I don't usually go there. I'm here 99% of the time and then also on SpinQuad and Foundation3D occasionally. There is always that vocal minority that complain about stuff there. I like the challenges areas and I've never really read anything bad or biased in those threads. To be honest, all of the news threads on most boards get a lot of biased info.

SplineGod
03-05-2009, 09:31 AM
The LW forum on CGTalk used to be the busiest by a huge margin.
Leigh is an admin there and has set the tone regardlng LW there. There has been systematic harassment of those who champion LW in the LW forums by the moderators. This isnt an accidental thing and as a result many LW professionals dont go there anymore. I was 'soft banned' from there several years ago simply for defending LW and according to the moderator who initiated the ban, because I wouldnt "admit that LW had weaknesses." The exact same moderators who jumped into the price thread were the same who were jumping on my case. None of th em use LW yet seems to be experts on it. I remember Jen Hachigian tring to defend LWs cel shading capabilities in the LW section again. I warned her privately that she would end up attracting those same moderators and would be harassed. She didnt believe me until it happend, She and her husband Dave Jerrard have never been back since as well as many others. A friend of mine was a moderator there for quite awhile and quit because of what he saw going on and being discussed in the moderator forums.
So bottom line is that the admins at CGTalk dont like the LW forum, barely allow it to exist and know who they dont want or wont tolerate on CGTalk. Roberto knows all about this but his hands are apparnetly tied. Hes tried to coax a few people back but IMO whats the point? Its not his board and why go where youre not welcome or wanted? The best thing is to go to and support boards that support LW and its community.

BTW soft banning is where they dont outright ban you but lock your acct so y ou cant post, msg etc etc.

Andyjaggy
03-05-2009, 09:35 AM
Interesting Spline God, I guess maybe there is some truth to it.

IMI
03-05-2009, 09:49 AM
Interesting Spline God, I guess maybe there is some truth to it.

It is interesting, yes, and there is some truth to it. Allot of truth, actually.

I think it basically comes down to the fact a certain "ubiquitous" admin there simply hates NewTek and even would prefer to see LWaver's (Newtek supporters, in other words) limited in their ability to gain professionally from the exposure of CG Talk. She can't outright blatantly do that, but there are other ways....

It's petty and it's ridiculous, but it is what it is. IMO, this forum here and SpinQuad are the best resources for LW-related things anyway. I don't post at SpinQuad though, can't even remember right now what my user name there is.

I go to CG Talk to look at the amazing artwork, but that's about it. As a LW learning resource it's all but useless, IMO, or at best, redundant.

caesar
03-05-2009, 10:00 AM
Roberto Ortiz is not only cool about LW, heīs always supporting LW artists and discussions. I think LW has a minor CGS role (ok, maybe almost nothing). I think its easier to have a fight here thn there

*Pete*
03-05-2009, 11:10 AM
I havent posted much at all at CGTalk..two three posts maybe.

I find the LW forum dead and mainly negative...where i do find CGTalk usefull is its galleries and the challenges, specially the lighting challenges.

most of what i feel is anti-LW'ish comes from them making reviews of movies where LW had been heavily used, sometimes even as the main application once Maya had proved to be useless for the scenes..and what is reported?

yes, they report how "Real flow" made the ocean, when the reality is that real flow did only the splashes in the LW ocean, LW ships and what not...i just feel that had they managed to use Maya to create the ocean and the ship, then the reviews would be about Maya and realflow.

SplineGod..intresting, thanks for telling this.

propably it is not a big conspirace of the masses vs LW, but a few rotten eggs at the top who create the atmosphere of LW negativity.

ctuller
03-05-2009, 11:38 AM
http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=2&t=738048

The cgtalk folks really love Branit's work and he is clearly a LightWave user: http://www.newtek.com/lightwave/profile_detail.php?recordID=64

I like cgtalk, like the work presented there, and like the challenges. I could do without Leigh but c'est la vie.

Chuck
03-05-2009, 12:23 PM
It's weird to hear this in the same forum people usually say the same with Blender. This forum is as open minded as others.

Being "as open-minded as others" is certainly a compliment, given that this forum is a company forum dedicated to NewTek's products, not a public forum providing discussion venues for users of all products. There are clearly stated restrictions with regard to the nature of discussion of other products - use in conjunction with NewTek products, but not outright promotion of competing products in opposition to NewTek's products. If qualitatively the generic venues really aren't more open-minded than a company venue - that's sort of surprising, isn't it? :) (and no, I'm not saying that they aren't more open-minded, just making a point about comparing company venues to generic venues - they really can't be expected to be alike. They have very different purposes.)

Chuck
03-05-2009, 12:31 PM
Folks, NewTek's forums are really not the place to discuss policies and personalities of other forums. We'll close the thread, and let's move on to more productive topics.