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jay3d
02-26-2009, 03:46 AM
Now it's called Autodesk Softimage :D

http://www.softimage.com/products/xsi/

oh, and with subscription, upgrades penalty and more of autodesk's screw-the-customer tactics :goodluck:

hrgiger
02-26-2009, 03:49 AM
Autodesk blows.

biliousfrog
02-26-2009, 04:02 AM
Almost all of the new features of Softimage 7.5 were already planned as the next upgrade, we won't know what Autodesk have planned until the next release...which will probably be called Autodesk Softimage 2010.

jay3d
02-26-2009, 04:12 AM
I heard some rumor that the original ICE developer left Softimage team sometime in the middle of things

hrgiger
02-26-2009, 04:16 AM
Geez this is old news.

Which one? That Autodesk blows or that XSI is now Autodesk with a subscription and upgrades penalty?

WillBellJr
02-26-2009, 05:37 AM
Hrumph, I was on the fence when I upgraded to get the additional $800 in maintenance.

The update from XSI v6 to v6.5 was fabulous with them adding in the hair and cloth - so I sprung for maintenance hoping that v7.5 would be equally awesome - considering the ICE architecture and its capabilities.

"PS: Since v7 is a brand-new architecture, I can promise you that the maintenance will be MORE than worth it in terms of upgrades released for the next year ;-)"


Being told that by the sales rep certainly sealed the deal for me.



So what did I get for my $800??

A string replace within the code from "Softimage XSI" -> "Autodesk Softimage", removal of all Avid related exports and utility features

...And what looks to be a decent Unfold technology similar to UnFold3D's.

So, for for my $800 I got a 3D unfolder. Nothing of the rumors on the addition of some Kinematic related ICE features.


You can fill in for yourselves my opinion on all of this about right now - I can't even download the v7.5 upgrade which I'm entitled to because someone hasn't got to my name on a list yet to add me from the old Avid support to the new Autodesk Subscription system...

-Will

PS - Still waiting to see how much it will cost for maintenance with Autodesk at the helm now - lets see if they can make that something positive...

jasonwestmas
02-26-2009, 05:49 AM
This is more a philosophical battle than anything. One company dictating the future direction for so called CREATIVE tools? Common, this doesn't sound familiar, "creative" being the root word in this philosophical debate?

OnlineRender
02-26-2009, 05:55 AM
if autodesks bought xsi and googles buying valvue , hmmm this is why i went to xbox , anybody for a game of monopoly !

jasonwestmas
02-26-2009, 05:55 AM
Hrumph, I was on the fence when I upgraded to get the additional $800 in maintenance.

The update from XSI v6 to v6.5 was fabulous with them adding in the hair and cloth - so I sprung for maintenance hoping that v7.5 would be equally awesome - considering the ICE architecture and its capabilities.

"PS: Since v7 is a brand-new architecture, I can promise you that the maintenance will be MORE than worth it in terms of upgrades released for the next year ;-)"


Being told that by the sales rep certainly sealed the deal for me.



So what did I get for my $800??

A string replace within the code from "Softimage XSI" -> "Autodesk Softimage", removal of all Avid related exports and utility features

...And what looks to be a decent Unfold technology similar to UnFold3D's.

So, for for my $800 I got a 3D unfolder. Nothing of the rumors on the addition of some Kinematic related ICE features.


You can fill in for yourselves my opinion on all of this about right now - I can't even download the v7.5 upgrade which I'm entitled to because someone hasn't got to my name on a list yet to add me from the old Avid support to the new Autodesk Subscription system...

-Will

PS - Still waiting to see how much it will cost for maintenance with Autodesk at the helm now - lets see if they can make that something positive...

Sounds like the disney phenomenon that is still happening today. Slap a logo on product from something non-disney and create a superficial and prohibiting commonality between all disney products to seal the deal.

grimoirecg
02-26-2009, 07:22 AM
Well I am an autodesk customer without wanting to be, because they simply moved in and bought one of the apps I use right from under me, and since it's my favourite app I'm not going to ditch just because it now belongs to autodesk.
However, the release of mudbox 2 was a complete fiasco since the autodesk buyout, it was clearly released several months before it was ready and had major bugs which made it virtually unusable, and is only now being fixed after 2 service packs.

frantbk
02-26-2009, 07:25 AM
Almost all of the new features of Softimage 7.5 were already planned as the next upgrade, we won't know what Autodesk have planned until the next release...which will probably be called Autodesk Softimage 2010.

Which will be released in the 1Q of 2011. :devil: :D

frantbk
02-26-2009, 07:27 AM
Well I am an autodesk customer without wanting to be, because they simply moved in and bought one of the apps I use right from under me, and since it's my favourite app I'm not going to ditch just because it now belongs to autodesk.
However, the release of mudbox 2 was a complete fiasco since the autodesk buyout, it was clearly released several months before it was ready and had major bugs which made it virtually unusable, and is only now being fixed after 2 service packs.

Well that is one way to make the subscription pay for its self. ;D :lol: Autodesk smarter then you think.

mattclary
02-26-2009, 08:22 AM
Autodesk blows.

Thanks to Autodesk's propensity for non-corporate behaviors removed by MOD. , we've got to keep you amongst our fold! :thumbsup:

Autodesk buying up all the 3D companies may end up being the best thing that ever happened to NewTek.

praa
02-26-2009, 08:39 AM
with products that are stagnant and putrid,

putrid... nice one very sensually charged and intense :agree:

cresshead
02-26-2009, 11:59 AM
love autodesk...they're ACE...

okay so the last 2 releases of 3dsmax were abit under the weather...but max 7,8 and 9 were really good and max 2010 looks to be back on top form with a huge release coming in march 16th..with c.a.t. as wll on subs...great release and max 2011 will have cat fully adopted into 3dsmax next year i hear.

re xsi and mudbox...moving apps into autodeak fold takes a couple of releases so expect next year's release to be a proper autodesk release and not the transitional release that xsi and mudbox was...both of these apps are now coming online so to speak.

not sure if your subs are falling into line with 3dsmax but 3dsmax on subs you get an at home and at work licence so you don't have to export/import keys when out on the road or back home for the weekend/evenings.


there's a lot of anti autodesk feelings around here...not sure why, it's just a software company for making pretty pictures much like newtek.

the only downside i see with autodesk is the eula is different to many other companies.

jay3d
02-26-2009, 12:10 PM
love autodesk...they're ACE...

okay so the last 2 releases of 3dsmax were abit under the weather...but max 7,8 and 9 were really good and max 2010 looks to be back on top form with a huge release coming in march 16th..with c.a.t. as wll on subs...great release and max 2011 will have cat fully adopted into 3dsmax next year i hear.

re xsi and mudbox...moving apps into autodeak fold takes a couple of releases so expect next year's release to be a proper autodesk release and not the transitional release that xsi and mudbox was...both of these apps are now coming online so to speak.

not sure if your subs are falling into line with 3dsmax but 3dsmax on subs you get an at home and at work licence so you don't have to export/import keys when out on the road or back home for the weekend/evenings.


there's a lot of anti autodesk feelings around here...not sure why, it's just a software company for making pretty pictures much like newtek.

the only downside i see with autodesk is the eula is different to many other companies.

I will not judge 3ds since i left it in version 2, I've seen great work done in 3dsmax lately, and finalRender is absolutely the best renderer around for max, but the really crap software autodesk still produces and they should discontinue it in favor of Revit is AutoCAD, AutoCAD is the most outdated featureless POC software i've ever seen. when i've shown my coworker what can i do with microstation in solide modeling compared to AutoCAD, they were blown away

sorry for the OT

cresshead
02-26-2009, 12:23 PM
well if your on core then you'll be getting back into the 3dsmax grooove with modifiers in lightwave core..lightwave core is looking like a great development roadmap.

no idea on autocad..never used it

now then autodesk sketchbook pro is looking rather tastey too, i'll probably add that this year when i arrives rather than upgrading my paintx to painter 11 as painter 11 looks rather poor as an upgrade.
http://area.autodesk.com/sketchbook_preview

DiscreetFX
02-26-2009, 12:34 PM
AD always does this.

DiedonD
02-26-2009, 12:39 PM
...... this is a Newtek-Forum, and it is clear what the users here think about Autodesk!

I hope we dont get a war with the autodesk-forums if they start there something with "Core" !!

Well... I for one, would sure love to see them try!

Entering here with their unwanted BS, would be like entering a foreign land unwelcomed. They wouldnt go well in that path.

I only tolerate Cress here, cause we need his double agent skills. Surely, if he defenses that nonsense here, he probably does the same over there when LW is under attacked like this!

He has access on both forums...

Isnt that right Cress?

grimoirecg
02-26-2009, 12:47 PM
re xsi and mudbox...moving apps into autodeak fold takes a couple of releases so expect next year's release to be a proper autodesk release and not the transitional release that xsi and mudbox was...both of these apps are now coming online so to speak.



.

It's nothing to do with that as far as mudbox 2 goes. They simply made an executive decision to release it months before it was ready, knowing perfectly well it was a total shambles, because they wanted to put the autodesk stamp and branding on it as soon as possible. That's clearly more important to them than releasing reliable software.

wacom
02-26-2009, 01:47 PM
Bye bye my beloved XSI! Here comes AD-SI!

Well...so far...things are not getting better under AD...

Is this just a bump in the road or a downward trend? I have no idea. Looking at what happened to other applications...well I cringe to think of it.

Just leaves more room for smaller, more nimble companies to out maneuver and innovate as stock holder ***** an moan the company to death as profits dive...

Hello LW, C4D, MODO, HOUDINI and all the rest of em! Once my contract is up with AD (no fault of my own mind you) I'll be looking for either a return home (LW) or a new one (probably live in two actually).

The funny thing is that as the LW render engine gets more tweakable and has more functions it seems MI is dumbing down and thus slowing down mr...oh the joys!

hrgiger
02-26-2009, 03:13 PM
I have my own reasons for not liking Autodesk. I don't like their pricing or subscription policies and I don't like the fact that they'e swallowing up their competitors by buying them out. They're killing innovation. Even when you see a nice release from them, you've got to think that it would be so much better if they had to actually try to out think their competitors and come up with something better. But now that they've captured the Maya users and XSI users along with it's own already large user base, what's the motivation in putting out the best possible release?
It's too bad because I was just getting to know XSI but I won't support Autodesk. I see them growing closer to a monopoly which is not good for 3D.

lwanmtr
02-26-2009, 03:28 PM
Yeah..and you're just 'renting' their software, you dont own it.

Silkrooster
02-26-2009, 09:33 PM
I wonder how many of the programmers did not get transfered to AD when their company was purchased.
Newtek may be able to snatch some of them up. Assuming all their good ideas aren't tied up in a legal loop-hole by AD.
Thinking out loud...

cresshead
02-27-2009, 02:18 AM
Well... I for one, would sure love to see them try!

Entering here with their unwanted BS, would be like entering a foreign land unwelcomed. They wouldnt go well in that path.

I only tolerate Cress here, cause we need his double agent skills. Surely, if he defenses that nonsense here, he probably does the same over there when LW is under attacked like this!

He has access on both forums...

Isnt that right Cress?

i could be a triple agent though...:devil::twak:

da da do daaaaah! >>suspenseful music:D

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 03:56 AM
Yeah..and you're just 'renting' their software, you dont own it.
You never own the software, what you get is the right to use it (which is what is covered in the license).
That's always the case except for open source (even then your ownership is usually limited).
That's pretty much the same for anything related to intellectual property (be it software, movies, music or... graphics/animations).

Cheers,
Mike

akademus
02-27-2009, 03:59 AM
Hah! I've been mocking my XSI colleagues all day long :D

coughautodesksoftimagecough

It's still a great piece of software, but I can see them worried about future development because of this vanilla update.

It's a great opportunity for LW now. I hope NT plays it's cards well...

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 04:46 AM
It's a great opportunity for LW now. I hope NT plays it's cards well...
The question is... is it really? Look at the complaining when Alias was bought by AD.
Everybody complained... but they're still using it.

Cheers,
Mike

bjornkn
02-27-2009, 05:53 AM
It also depends on what they do to it, I guess?
I'm using ImageModeler, which was also bought up by AD when they bought Realviz.
There is a very expensive upgrade available, with very few new features, and very few bug fixes. But the worst is that they removed several of the 3D export formats, including LWS, VRML and STL! Now you only have Maya and FBX left that exports with camera positions and materials.
Why remove functionality like that?
I will not upgrade this time, and next time I'll probably have to pay full price anyway?

jasonwestmas
02-27-2009, 05:54 AM
The question is... is it really? Look at the complaining when Alias was bought by AD.
Everybody complained... but they're still using it.

Cheers,
Mike

Gotta agree with Lightwolf. Also, if the program still works and does what it does well, the mere familiarity of the software keeps people around. It will take much more than a few crappy updates from AD.

mattclary
02-27-2009, 09:30 AM
there's a lot of anti autodesk feelings around here...not sure why, it's just a software company for making pretty pictures much like newtek.


Giger summed it up pretty well. They don't seem to want to compete. They are like the Borg, assimilating everything in their path.

I cut my teeth on AutoCAD, and actually really liked using it. R12 for DOS is probably part of the reason I took to LightWave so readily, what with all text and no icons. I used 3D Studio a little, also in it's DOS days, but could never take a shine to Max like I did LightWave.

Autodesk used to be a leader, now, they are the Borg. :devil:

TSpyrison
02-27-2009, 10:36 AM
What I want to know, is what good does it do for them to have Maya, XSI and 3ds Max?

Wouldn't it be better to boil it down to one product instead of 3 competing products of their own?

HarverdGrad
02-27-2009, 10:39 AM
now then autodesk sketchbook pro is looking rather tastey too, i'll probably add that this year when i arrives rather than upgrading my paintx to painter 11 as painter 11 looks rather poor as an upgrade.http://area.autodesk.com/sketchbook_preview

I just started using Painter 11 (and I'm a new user to Painter 10), so can't comment on it other than it looks pretty much the same. It was a free upgrade from 10. If I had to pay for 11 though, I'd pass.

I love Sketchbook Pro!!!

In summary: Sketchbook Pro > Tivo > girls

Regards,
D

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 10:45 AM
What I want to know, is what good does it do for them to have Maya, XSI and 3ds Max?
In the short term? Market share. That's what they bought alongside the tech and the dev teams.


Wouldn't it be better to boil it down to one product instead of 3 competing products of their own?
It's hard to tell, currently they seem to try to push them into different markets.

Cheers,
Mike

kfinla
02-27-2009, 11:06 AM
What I want to know, is what good does it do for them to have Maya, XSI and 3ds Max?

Wouldn't it be better to boil it down to one product instead of 3 competing products of their own?

The way I've always looked at it is like this, they do try and steer the products to different markets but there is certainly overlap. Each product team is its own business trying to expand into all the market places.

I think the simple answer is money. Unless they develop a product that costs what max,maya and Softimage combined costs to license. They generate more income selling 3 products and subscription systems.

cresshead
02-27-2009, 11:08 AM
What I want to know, is what good does it do for them to have Maya, XSI and 3ds Max?

Wouldn't it be better to boil it down to one product instead of 3 competing products of their own?

well autodesk have nr 70% market share...and 3 revenue streams from 3dsmax, maya and now xsi not only that but motion builder and mudbox too.
autodesk just about control 3d for media and entertainment and i'tll take something like lightwave core or modo to shake some of the current autodesk users away and try something new...

BUT

it's no good just being the same or near same capabilities as maya, max or xsi..it'll take an app or apps that do stuff significantly BETTER and with true inovations to pull a decent amount away from autodesk apps..no matter the amount of moaning..thoses apps deliver the world's games/tv and films and employ the majority of 3d artists in the industry.

it's an uphill climb...just look at cinema4d..it's very capable right now and does compare well to xsi and maya but has hardly made a dent anywhere excapt texture painting in film and games...they're in the 'were about the same catergory...that's just not good enough to pull people in decent numbers...and their pricing is to close to maya complete or xsi to have any leverage either.

lightwave core has to be a leap forward to make any ground...not a leap forward on lightwave 9.6 but a leap well beyond maya, max and xsi...and houdini too.


http://jeffcarr.info/gallery/d/8231-3/leapfrog.jpg

Juancho00
02-27-2009, 11:19 AM
but I can see them worried about future development because of this vanilla update.



the vanilla update was planned before the aquisition, meaning is pure Softimage doing. Apparently XSI has never been great on point upgrades

Bill_Evans
02-27-2009, 11:25 AM
In the short term? Market share. That's what they bought alongside the tech and the dev teams.

It's hard to tell, currently they seem to try to push them into different markets.

Cheers,
Mike

Given the 10% layoff and the huge loss they announced yesterday that might get them in trouble with the SEC, I'm not sure the plan is doing so well for Autodesk.
-Bill

DiscreetFX
02-27-2009, 11:45 AM
Yup, today is not a good day for AD.

http://www.schaeffersresearch.com/streetools/stock_quotes.aspx?Ticker=ADSK

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 12:01 PM
Given the 10% layoff and the huge loss they announced yesterday that might get them in trouble with the SEC, I'm not sure the plan is doing so well for Autodesk.
Given that the DCC division is only a small part of AD... I don't think it really matters.
That's like blaming MS losses to them closing down their Flight Simulator group ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Bill_Evans
02-27-2009, 01:28 PM
Given that the DCC division is only a small part of AD... I don't think it really matters.
That's like blaming MS losses to them closing down their Flight Simulator group ;)

Cheers,
Mike

The MES group makes 12% of the income, and it appears to be hit as bad if not worse then the other divisions from the conference call yesterday. I dont think Flight Simulator made up 12% of microsofts revenue, do you?
-Bill

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 02:19 PM
The MES group makes 12% of the income, and it appears to be hit as bad if not worse then the other divisions from the conference call yesterday.
Well, there you go then. They could just completely drop that part fo the company and still be no worse... and no better off. Since the market is in a miserable shape now anyways, you can't attribute their performance to their purchases. After all, following that logic Avid should have made a profit after selling XSI ;)

I dont think Flight Simulator made up 12% of microsofts revenue, do you?
No, but it's also just a small part of a bigger picture.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 02:20 PM
I don't think ANYONE - hobbyists or studios - would simply discontinue the software because AD bought it.
Does AD actually have any (3D) products that a hobbyist can afford?

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 03:26 PM
Right up there with Fusion and Nuke costs... :)
Hehe, or any of the pro packages by Adobe.

I'd say that anything above 500US$ isn't designed for "hobbyists".
To make it clear, nothing against hobbyists at all. It's not a qualitative term in my eyes - but it defines priorities. And they are different if you use an app for a living (literally).

Cheers,
Mike

Mike_RB
02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
15% modo, 85% AD|Softimage. AD|Softimage kicks ***, even with its new overlords. Core has a tall feature ladder to climb.

http://www.theembassyvfx.com/qt/citroen_ghostbusters_reloaded.html

IMI
02-27-2009, 04:20 PM
Does AD actually have any (3D) products that a hobbyist can afford?

Cheers,
Mike

"Afford" is relative. Even just last Summer when I was still raking in the big bucks, if you'd have asked me (as a hobbyist) if I could afford to buy a Maya Ultimate license, I'd have told you sure, no problem. And if the fully functional Maya Ultimate 2009 demo had been available back then, and I knew then what I know about it now after having used it to my fullest ability during the demo period, I'd have more than likely bought it.

Now, if you asked my *wife* if I could "afford" it or not, she'd have had quite a different thing to say. She's, like, hopelessly responsible. I suppose that's a good thing, but it does get annoying. ;)

Although in her case, "afford" is loosely synonymous with "justify"; technically I could afford it (back then, but definitely not now), but could I really justify buying it, being only a hobbyist? No, and even I would admit to that. But I would have bought it anyway and taken my beating later. ;)

jasonwestmas
02-27-2009, 04:22 PM
What I want to know, is what good does it do for them to have Maya, XSI and 3ds Max?

Wouldn't it be better to boil it down to one product instead of 3 competing products of their own?

I've worked for different companies as a freelancer and sometimes they want the files since I'm not always given the option to do every step in the pipeline, and I don't really want to be a jack of ALL freaking trades either. Some companies use max, others maya or even motionbuilder so I need the right program for the job at home. Sometimes they give me a temp license to work with too since I don't own max or motionbuilder.

Mike_RB
02-27-2009, 04:26 PM
"Afford" is relative. Even just last Summer when I was still raking in the big bucks, if you'd have asked me (as a hobbyist) if I could afford to buy a Maya Ultimate license, I'd have told you sure, no problem. And if the fully functional Maya Ultimate 2009 demo had been available back then, and I knew then what I know about it now after having used it to my fullest ability during the demo period, I'd have more than likely bought it.

Now, if you asked my *wife* if I could "afford" it or not, she'd have had quite a different thing to say. She's, like, hopelessly responsible. I suppose that's a good thing, but it does get annoying. ;)

Although in her case, "afford" is loosely synonymous with "justify"; technically I could afford it (back then, but definitely not now), but could I really justify buying it, being only a hobbyist? No, and even I would admit to that. But I would have bought it anyway and taken my beating later. ;)

Ask her to justify her next round of shopping. Don't you already have a purse honey? :)

IMI
02-27-2009, 04:34 PM
Ask her to justify her next round of shopping. Don't you already have a purse honey? :)

Heh. How true. And shoes - don't forget the shoes.. ;)

Iain
02-27-2009, 04:38 PM
Core and Modo are going to have to compete with Blender for the hobbyist/freelancer market now.

All the 'serious' people are AutoDesk users who just happen to do some modelling in Modo/Formz/C4D/LW/Rhino/Sketchup/Hexagon etc and rendering in VRay/Final Render/Mental Ray/LW/Modo/C4D/Maxwell/Fry etc with some serious Houdini problem solving thrown in for good measure.

Doomed, we're all doomed!

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 05:19 PM
I don't think you can compare (price-wise) Adobe products with Nuke or Fusion. You can get the full Adobe suite (in the US) for $1700 and that contains Photoshop, AE, Premiere, Illustrator, etc. Compared to the other top apps, the cost IS for the hobbyist.
3200 US$ over here, including VAT but we are talking "hobbyist". And I do think that 3200US$ is way above that price bracket.

Now, that doesn't meant that there aren't "hobby" users that can afford those prices, far from it. But it means that there are so few of them that you don't base a business model on hobbyist products in that price range.

It's a by-product. Let them buy it if they want to. I hear some people have a tank in their back yard as well - or pay the same amound of money to go see the superbowl ;)

I do use LW and these other apps for a living...
That puts it into a completely different perspective though.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 05:23 PM
Core and Modo are going to have to compete with Blender for the hobbyist/freelancer market now.

Don't forget Houdini or C4D.
I'm not too sure about CORE in the hobbyist market (what happened to Caligari TS, Hash or Carrara?).
As for freelancers, if they're legit then they surely look for a cheap alternative (some aren't). Or if they're good then they can afford the higher priced packages as well (especially as subscriptions make it a bit cheaper to stay up to date).

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 05:38 PM
And I just remembered.... I have two more EXR Trader licenses to buy!
Haha, bring them on. :D

Now the question is... who is our target group? ;)

Cheers,
Mike

Iain
02-27-2009, 05:38 PM
Don't forget Houdini or C4D.


I did include them-in jest-but it was a joke anyway.

The point is, you use what you need and, in terms of any business model, our costs are so incredibly low, even for a start up business, that it could only be a hobbyist who would complain about LW/Core pricing.
In fact, it would be ridiculous to most businesses that their software recoups could occur after one transaction.
But not us-oh no!

Silkrooster
02-27-2009, 05:41 PM
what happened to Caligari TS, Hash or Carrara?
Cheers,
Mike

Caligari is no more Microsoft bought out TS (not sure about the rest of their software). Don't know about Hash. Carrara I believe was bought by Daz who apparently has a similar theory to AD, buy out the competition. At least AD has programmers to issue updates though.

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 05:44 PM
I did include them-in jest-but it was a joke anyway.

Well, I don't have a sense of humour, sorry for missing it... :hey:

Cheers,
Mike 8/

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 05:47 PM
Caligari is no more Microsoft bought out TS (not sure about the rest of their software).
Yup, Caligari is a part of MS now, last time I checked (five minutes ago, to make sure) it was still named Caligari TS though.

Don't know about Hash. Carrara I believe was bought by Daz who apparently has a similar theory to AD, buy out the competition. At least AD has programmers to issue updates though.
Well, the main difference being that (if I remember corrently) Daz weren't even in the software business before they bought others. I completely forget them on my list though (Daz dat iz)...

Cheers,
Mike

IMI
02-27-2009, 05:54 PM
The point is, you use what you need and, in terms of any business model, our costs are so incredibly low, even for a start up business, that it could only be a hobbyist who would complain about LW/Core pricing.


I would think any intelligent hobbyist wouldn't complain about CORE pricing. Even though it's a considerable increase over recent past LW versions, it's still a helluva deal, for all LW can do. A hobbyist interested enough can become a professional, or a part time freelancer just by learning LW - hell, there's plenty of professional uses for it even without going into animation at all, or just limited, simple animation.

IMI
02-27-2009, 05:59 PM
Yup, Caligari is a part of MS now, last time I checked (five minutes ago, to make sure) it was still named Caligari TS though.

Well, the main difference being that (if I remember corrently) Daz weren't even in the software business before they bought others. I completely forget them on my list though (Daz dat iz)...

Cheers,
Mike

I didn't even know TS was still around. *shudder* Now there's an app which I can say I truly detest.
No, DAZ weren't in the software biz... unless you want to count their Poser meshes as software (which it is, but I know that's not what you meant). But I think they bought Bryce and Carrerra because they were going to become abandoneware and were put up for sale. However, I think they had their "Daz Studio" program (free Poser knockoff) before they bought out any other programs.

Lightwolf
02-27-2009, 06:06 PM
I didn't even know TS was still around. *shudder* Now there's an app which I can say I truly detest.
It was amazing way back when on the Amiga... truly amazing (and about twice the price of LightWave). And then things just went downhill...

However, I think they had their "Daz Studio" program (free Poser knockoff) before they bought out any other programs.
That could well be, that part of the timeline is a bit fuzzy for me, but they never intrigued me, I never watched them closely...

wacom
02-27-2009, 09:01 PM
Well...is the market really wrapped up? I know it seems like ages ago...but at one point SI was the app to beat...then a number of un-forseen things happened and WAMO- Maya is king (in some parts of film at least).

I've also been thinking...

Maybe the userbase...the ones at the top are aging...so they are getting kind of stuck in their ways..."who moved my mel cheese..."

I'd also like to draw attention to the fact that the film market may not be, in the future, the fastest growing segment of the 3D app market...lots of room out there for "others" with a nice price point too...

jin choung
02-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Maybe the userbase...the ones at the top are aging...so they are getting kind of stuck in their ways..."who moved my mel cheese..."

that's basically most users of most apps... and not just because of age but because people tend to stick to (and hallow) what they know and villify... "the other".

human nature in 3d market form. : )

jin

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 05:14 AM
Honestly I would think that it would be anyone using LW.
...
We're not talking super-expensive software here - you can't get much cheaper (i.e. less expensive) than exrTrader! :thumbsup:
That was pretty much our thinking, so you're dead on.

IMO... the best thing to do would be to create several tutorials on how to use exrTrader with LW focusing on specific areas.
I'm planning to do a few video tutorials, at least to cover the basics. I'm just a little.... shy in front of a microphone.

Cheers,
Mike

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 05:17 AM
that's basically most users of most apps... and not just because of age but because people tend to stick to (and hallow) what they know and villify... "the other".
One thing that I've noticed is that I'd rather use workarounds for known issues than face the danger of unknown issues without knowing a workaround in production.
That's one major reason to stick with what you know best - security.

Cheers,
Mike

Iain
02-28-2009, 05:21 AM
I'm just a little.... shy in front of a microphone.


Yes, until you put on the wig, frock and heavy make up, that is.
:hey:

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 05:22 AM
Yes, until you put on the wig, frock and heavy make up, that is.
:hey:
Absolutely, that's when I go bonkers and entertain the crowd... :boogiedow

Cheers,
Mike :hey:

IMI
02-28-2009, 05:29 AM
Forgive me my ignorance, but what's the advantage of using OpenEXR images?

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 05:33 AM
Forgive me my ignorance, but what's the advantage of using OpenEXR images?
While we're derailing the thread (well, XSI does have pretty good EXR support ;) ).
It's pretty much the industry standard file format for HDRI images as used in pipelines, especially for compositing.
Support for 16/32bit float, various lossless (and a few lossy) compression modes, support for multiple channels/buffers per file and very good support on the compositing side of life (Fusion, Nuke, Toxic, Combustion, AE CS4).
A decent analogy might be PSD for CG pipelines.

Cheers,
Mike

IMI
02-28-2009, 05:39 AM
Ah I see, thanks. Compositing. :)

colkai
02-28-2009, 06:40 AM
I'd say that anything above 500US$ isn't designed for "hobbyists".
To make it clear, nothing against hobbyists at all. It's not a qualitative term in my eyes - but it defines priorities. And they are different if you use an app for a living (literally).

Cheers,
Mike

Well, speaking as a pure hobbyist, I'd agree.
I had looked with interest at XSI Foundation as the switch to that as opposed to a LW upgrade was around the same ball-park. The dropping of Foundation straight away meant there is no way in Hades I could justify the cost of the base XSI package.
I'd also seen what AD had done with Motionbuilder so I wasn't even going to consider risking buying it, even *IF* I could of somehow raise that amount of money.

Right now, LW is one of the few 'serious' options which are financially viable for a hobbyist, not that I am in any way disparaging the likes of Wings3D and Blender, heck, it's amazing you can get that sort of thing for free now when you consider what free 3D options existed in the past.


I would think any intelligent hobbyist wouldn't complain about CORE pricing. Even though it's a considerable increase over recent past LW versions, it's still a helluva deal, for all LW can do

Indeed, though with Truespace3D for free from MS and Blender, I also agree with Iain that many hobbyists would be looking in that direction. To be honest, it would be kind of daft not to if you had very little / no money to spend. Then again, I do think you can split hobbyists into those with plenty of money and a desire to use "industry standard" packages, even though they'll never produce anything from them or make money.
Those who, like me, got a little bit of money and want something but are semi-realistic about the fact that this is an outlay with zero return. Finally there are those with no money who will just go to Blender et al.

Actually scratch that, the final batch are those who don't even use free software, but pirate it because they "would never buy it anyway". :p

mattclary
02-28-2009, 06:47 AM
Hehe, or any of the pro packages by Adobe.

I'd say that anything above 500US$ isn't designed for "hobbyists".
To make it clear, nothing against hobbyists at all. It's not a qualitative term in my eyes - but it defines priorities. And they are different if you use an app for a living (literally).

Cheers,
Mike

I originally paid $1000 for LightWave. Of course that's after I had used Inspire for long enough to know it was love. Hell, I think I paid over $300 for Inspire. That was expensive demo.

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Seriously though, I'm REALLY looking forward to seeing these tutes. :thumbsup:
Nobody more than me. Initially it'll be more like a tour of the plugin itself.

Unless Mike looks like that already. :D
:confused: Looks in the mirror...

Cheers
Mike

IMI
02-28-2009, 02:10 PM
I'm planning to do a few video tutorials, at least to cover the basics. I'm just a little.... shy in front of a microphone.


Get yourself someone else's sampled voice to use then , or maybe something really cool, something like what Stephen Hawking uses. That way, nobody will know it's you. Shyness problem solved. ;)

Lightwolf
02-28-2009, 02:23 PM
That way, nobody will know it's you. Shyness problem solved. ;)
Hehe, actually that's not the issue. I've done trainings, demos, taught to classes. As soon as it's just me and a mike all the routine just goes the way of the dodo.
I suppose it just needs a little perseverance and training. Once I get over the irritation it should be allright.

Cheers,
Mike

Phil
02-28-2009, 08:46 PM
Right now, LW is one of the few 'serious' options which are financially viable for a hobbyist, not that I am in any way disparaging the likes of Wings3D and Blender, heck, it's amazing you can get that sort of thing for free now when you consider what free 3D options existed in the past.

Houdini Apprentice HD is worth looking at. $99, with no watermark and HD rendering. That's not at all bad. Now I've got time whilst being unemployed following Qimonda's demise, I'm taking a look at it.

colkai
03-01-2009, 02:20 AM
Houdini Apprentice HD is worth looking at. $99, with no watermark and HD rendering. That's not at all bad. Now I've got time whilst being unemployed following Qimonda's demise, I'm taking a look at it.

Wasn't aware of that Phil, thanks for the Info.

cresshead
03-01-2009, 03:11 AM
Houdini Apprentice HD is worth looking at. $99, with no watermark and HD rendering. That's not at all bad. Now I've got time whilst being unemployed following Qimonda's demise, I'm taking a look at it.

interesting, yeah i watched a free 90 min video on modeling basics with houdini 9 this morning from www.3dbuzz.com seeing as there's absoltley nothing
happening on the core area asnd i wanted to see how modeling with nodes would be like...quite intersting actually!

they went thru about 10 sop's and made a lo poly jet plane
also downloaded the free version to have a play with..just from the vid houdini looks more approachable than maya has is i've played with maya ple a little already.