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View Full Version : MDD files don't work on 9.6



khalid
02-22-2009, 08:16 AM
Hi all,
I think I just found a bug on 9.6, please someone check

It seems like .MDD files don't work on 9.6 ...then I tested the same files on the last version of Modo, it just works perfectly .... on LW theres an FORMAT ERROR. Tried this many different ways on LW, just don't work.

can anyone confirm this topic please ..
Thanks.

jay3d
02-22-2009, 08:44 AM
Do u have some scene available for testing?

Thanks!

RebelHill
02-22-2009, 11:18 AM
I fogged this (and put it in the beta workshop) WAAAAYYY back in august, before 9.6 even started...

https://secure.newtek.com/FogBugz/default.asp?15371_l6jk9qsq

Maybe noone thought this was important enough to bother fixing... which would be pretty dumb imo...

SplineGod
02-22-2009, 11:21 AM
Weve been using mdd files in 9.6 quite a bit with no problems.
How are you creating them and how are you applying them?

RebelHill
02-22-2009, 11:31 AM
Weve been using mdd files in 9.6 quite a bit with no problems.
How are you creating them and how are you applying them?

its not mdd files per se... its mdds over a certain point count... thats what i tracked it down to.

SplineGod
02-23-2009, 02:05 AM
Actually I just had the same error msg come up today.I md scanned an object and it worked fine for awhile then decided to stop working later on.

Greenlaw
02-23-2009, 11:41 AM
What's the source of your .mdds?

I've been cranking through dozens of .mdds in 9.6 everyday for several weeks now, and I had that error come up once about a week ago. I assumed the data RAM got corrupted at some point. I rebooted the system, re-ran the sim and it worked fine.

FWIW, most of my .mdds are generated using ClothFX in LightWave or PointOven in Maya, and I haven't had many issues with either in LightWave 9.6.

In LightWave, I usually use ClothFX to save the .mdd, but if I have to layer multiple FX and ClothFX plug-ins, sometimes the second (baking only) instance of ClothFX will crash. In this situation, I use PointOvenBaker, which works pretty reliably. You could also try rebaking the .mdd using MD_Scan (assuming you can load it in another LightWave scene.)

Greenlaw

LightFreeze
02-27-2009, 12:37 AM
If you are getting a ClothFX format error try using mdPlug or Dponts mddPointer.

They did fix the format error for point counts above 70k but maybe there`s a new ceiling now, how many points in your object?

khalid
02-27-2009, 03:16 AM
If you are getting a ClothFX format error try using mdPlug or Dponts mddPointer.

They did fix the format error for point counts above 70k but maybe there`s a new ceiling now, how many points in your object?


Very interesting all this conversation....

I found it is a few things... that get that to happen..

the poly count, or, how many objects are on the same layer as an object. I use the soft dynamics to get the soft areas look jiggly... the character have hundreds of bones and morphs.. so I did not wanna bother all these issues on render farm... that's why I went with MDD.

I would like to try the others you have mentioned (mdPlug or Dponts mddPointe) where can I find it...?!

also I tried this again with MODO no problems.. just for your info

Big thanks guys...


OH.. one more thing... now I have to find ways to get the fiberFX to stick to the MDDed geometry ...... Honey.....the Duck Tape please-!!!!!

LightFreeze
02-27-2009, 10:43 AM
MD_Plug is native LW, object properties/Deform/Add Displacement

MDD Pointer is part of Dponts DPKit (http://pagesperso-orange.fr/dpont/plugins/nodes/Additionnal_Nodes_2.html)

Cageman
02-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Yep...

I can confirm what LightFreeze just said... I've got the error several times when trying to use MD_Plug or Soft/Cloth FX to attach a scanned MDD (scanned inside of LW btw).

You have two options, either you go for DPonts DPKit (lovely nodepackage) or you invest in PointOven (yes, PointOven has an MDD-reader).

Dodgy
02-28-2009, 09:16 PM
I've had more errors with mdscan than with clothfx scan, so I tend to use that to scan with.

Cageman
02-28-2009, 09:21 PM
OH.. one more thing... now I have to find ways to get the fiberFX to stick to the MDDed geometry ...... Honey.....the Duck Tape please-!!!!!


If you use MDD_Pointer (DPKit) it seems to work just fine.

kbrilliant
05-14-2009, 08:08 PM
This seems like a good thread to tag onto.

I've been tying to use md scan and getting crashing on export and/or import with md plug. As a test, I've tried this procedure on the simplest of objects, such as a sphere and a cube, and still have the same problems.

I'm just trying to bake some bone animation.

Is this a confirmed bug?

DP Kit plugin also crashed LW

thanks for any clarity on this matter

khalid
05-14-2009, 11:37 PM
Hi..
I'm not sure if NT are fixing it... but I've tried it on many models.. with different riggs..
once you pace the number of poly count that LW does not like... it just does not work anymore... deadbeat..
I hope that it get fixed.. as to my knowledge MDD was created originally by LW People.

Cageman
05-15-2009, 12:19 AM
For massive baking, the workarounds are twofold...

1.
Get PointOven! (http://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO.htm) PointOven bakes MDDs direct to disk, so there are no limitations to the number of polygons you can have on your object. MD_Scan, SoftFX, ClothFX etc are all scanning to memory, hence the reason LW crashes when going above a certain ammount of polygons/points.

However, DPKit MDD_Pointer NODE has so far been able to handle the MDDs I throw at it. Some of those MDDs are with objects of over 1 million polygons.

2.
IL_SaveTransformed_Sequence. (http://www.interialabs.de/lw/lscript/index.html) (scroll down and look for 'Save Transformed Sequence'). What it allows you to do is to save out a sequence of LWOs from Layout. SubD-objects are freezed based on the display subpatch level. When you have exported the mesh-sequence, you can use MDD-Compiler (http://www.ef9.com/ef9/PO1.5/PointOven_Downloads.html) (scroll down to the bottom of the page) to generate an MDD based on the objectsequence. The good thing with this compared to PointOven, is that if you have displacements applied to your subd object in LW, these will be baked down to actual geometry. The fact that it looks at the display subpatch level is very usefull.

Hope this helps!

Cheers!

LightFreeze
05-15-2009, 12:36 AM
This seems like a good thread to tag onto.

I've been tying to use md scan and getting crashing on export and/or import with md plug. As a test, I've tried this procedure on the simplest of objects, such as a sphere and a cube, and still have the same problems.

I'm just trying to bake some bone animation.

Is this a confirmed bug?

DP Kit plugin also crashed LW

thanks for any clarity on this matter

could you post a sample of your simple object and mdd

jin choung
05-15-2009, 12:42 AM
.mdd and all the simulation stuff comes from a japanese developer i think - forget the website or the dude's name....

not sure he's with newtek and if not, that might be the reason there are no bug fixes....

sigh.

i really hope newtek learns NOT to acquire technology piecemeal like this. it might get you some tech but then you're up a creek without a paddle in trying to maintain it (coughmotionmixercough).

jin

Cageman
05-15-2009, 02:36 PM
.mdd and all the simulation stuff comes from a japanese developer i think - forget the website or the dude's name....

not sure he's with newtek and if not, that might be the reason there are no bug fixes....

sigh.

i really hope newtek learns NOT to acquire technology piecemeal like this. it might get you some tech but then you're up a creek without a paddle in trying to maintain it (coughmotionmixercough).

jin

Not sure what you mean really... There are third party developers out there making .mdd a usable format for other apps. The limitation is in LW itself, not the mdd format. As stated earlier in this thread, I haven't had any problems with mdds when using PointOven (inside LW as an MDD-baker and reader/streamer tool). I have had crashes when using DPonts MDD Pointer node, but those are random and far between.

My point is... if third party developers can make things stable and work without constraints towards polycount etc, I'm quite sure NT could do the same. They are clearly focused on other things for now and they should stay focused on this other thing as much as they can, imho.

:)

jin choung
05-15-2009, 02:50 PM
i'm just responding to khalid that "mdd was created by newtek people..."

i'm just saying it was 3rd party and was acquired... and so "newtek people" may not have a good handle on what broke it or how to fix it etc....

jin

kbrilliant
05-15-2009, 07:48 PM
Attached is a simple sphere and .mdd file. The .mdd was generated with Md Scan. That part seemed to work, but Lw locks up when importing it back in with MD plug.

LW V9.5 64 bit

I did get desired results using point oven for the export.

Thanks all for any input.

Cageman
05-16-2009, 12:52 AM
Attached is a simple sphere and .mdd file. The .mdd was generated with Md Scan. That part seemed to work, but Lw locks up when importing it back in with MD plug.

LW V9.5 64 bit

I did get desired results using point oven for the export.

Thanks all for any input.

Ohh... this is interresting! Never had LW do this before. :) None of the MDD-readers works. I've tested PointOven reader, MDD Pointer, MD_Plug and ClothFX/SoftFX.., so the conclusion is that somehow, the mdd is corrupted.

My question is; how did you scan the MDD? Did you use MD_Scan or did you apply ClothFX and used the scan-tool? I personaly never use MD_Scan, I always use ClothFX and the scan-utility within it, OR, PointOven (depending on what I do).

If you can, it would be great if you could also provide the scene where you bake this mdd.

EDIT: Doh... I see that you used MD_Scan. (Sorry). So, my suggestion is that you apply ClothFX to the sphere, and then use the Scan utility within it to generate an MDD.

LightFreeze
05-16-2009, 03:15 AM
kbrilliant are you on a Mac by any chance because the mdd file has been saved in the wrong byte order,very weird.

Do as Cageman suggests and use ClothFX to scan and save the mdd with

jasonazure
05-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Here's an idea.....

....why don't Newtek fix md_scan?

I can't believe how many previously rock-solid plug-ins have been broken in the last 2 releases.

I'm currently having to keep versions 9.3, 9.5 and 9.6 on my system just to get work out the door and it's pi$$ing me off big time!

And don't even get me started on HD Instance in 9.6 :cursin:

Chuck
05-18-2009, 01:07 PM
The reports and content we have received previously on md_scan no longer duplicate a problem, so we could use new bug reports with content files that show the current issues. If you'll get those in, we'll make them a priority.

Please note that any other issues with NewTek's plugins need to be reported promptly, as we are proceeding on fixes for a maintenance update for v9.6. Problems with third party plugins need to be reported both to the third party and to NewTek; we do coordinate with third parties when the problem resides in our code or when they need assistance in confirming the nature of the issue in their product.

SplineGod
05-18-2009, 02:19 PM
Im using mdd files in LW9.6 with no isses. Im not using mdscan however to create the mdd files. Im using the scan motion function under clothfx to do that.

jasonazure
05-19-2009, 02:14 AM
Im using mdd files in LW9.6 with no isses. Im not using mdscan however to create the mdd files. Im using the scan motion function under clothfx to do that.

Are you using the scan function under clothfx because its better or because md_scan is broken?

The problem with lots of Lightwave bugs is that there is nearly always a work-around, which in the heat of an upcoming deadline you grasp onto and use, but then it seems the original problem is forgotten!

SplineGod
05-19-2009, 02:18 AM
Attached is a simple sphere and .mdd file. The .mdd was generated with Md Scan. That part seemed to work, but Lw locks up when importing it back in with MD plug.

LW V9.5 64 bit

I did get desired results using point oven for the export.

Thanks all for any input.

I wouldnt use LW9.5 for anything. Its EXTREMELY buggy and that version of LW did have problems with mdd files. LW9.3 works with mdd files and LW9.6 definately does because Ive used it alot lately with lots of mdd files.

SplineGod
05-19-2009, 02:19 AM
Are you using the scan function under clothfx because its better or because md_scan is broken?

The problem with lots of Lightwave bugs is that there is nearly always a work-around, which in the heat of an upcoming deadline you grasp onto and use, but then it seems the original problem is forgotten!

The MDScan is the older of the two tools. I tend to use clothfx to do the scanning because you also have the editfx tools handy to tweak the mddfile.

Sensei
05-27-2009, 03:34 PM
Attached is a simple sphere and .mdd file. The .mdd was generated with Md Scan. That part seemed to work, but Lw locks up when importing it back in with MD plug.

If it's 60 frame MDD animation file, size should be 60*4*3*266+60*4+4*2=191768 bytes.
If it's 61 frame- 61*4*3*266+61*4+4*2=194964
If it's 62 frame- 62*4*3*266+62*4+4*2=198160
Your MDD file is 198156.. which is almost 62 frame case from mine calcs..
IMHO, if mine calcs are correct, any loader should inform user about file format error and ask him whether to use or not such file..
Most of comments in this thread is that LW v9.6 has too demanding error handling.. :)
If LW v9.3 didn't say anything (file format error etc message) and started complaining with exactly the same file in LW v9.6 for 99% it's just because original MDD file was always corrupted, but accepted (and maybe causing crash in f.e. 1 hour later in LW, because of corrupted memory, after using it)..