PDA

View Full Version : FPrime, 9.6 is final...



samartin
02-18-2009, 09:50 AM
I've been looking for news about FPrime now that 9.6 has finally been delivered and can't find nada.

I still try to use FPrime, but everytime I use it I can guarantee that LW will crash, and in a way that I have to manually shut the program down! It's a great plug-in but quite unusable these days!

So has anyone got any information out there about a potential new release? I saw something on Flay regarding Voxels now appearing inside the preview window, but... it has been pulled since.

Hope someone can shed some light on this plug-in...

cheers

Scott

Sensei
02-18-2009, 11:26 AM
I still try to use FPrime, but everytime I use it I can guarantee that LW will crash, and in a way that I have to manually shut the program down! It's a great plug-in but quite unusable these days!

Just remember to not use it with any node Materials and Shaders, and everything should be fine..


So has anyone got any information out there about a potential new release? I saw something on Flay regarding Voxels now appearing inside the preview window, but... it has been pulled since.

It's something like this
http://www2.trueart.pl/Products/Plug-Ins/TrueHair/Graphics/Movies/TrueHair_Preview_HyperVoxels_1.mov
(Save File As.. and watch in off-line player)

kfinla
02-18-2009, 11:35 AM
I would love to see an updated version of Fprime that works with LW9.6. Currently FP 3.2works with LW 9.3.1 and has issues with any other LW builds above or below but seems to work flawlessly on that version for me with G2 etc.

The leaked(found) fprime video was dated Dec'08.. and was a version 3.22 or somthing and was able to show HV's in the previewer not just with Fprimes render.

There were many Fprime specific additions to the LW 9.6 (9.5.1) and probably 9.5.0 SDK's so it seems a given an update would come out.

The big issue now is CORE. If everything is different architecturaly will we not see a Fprime for another year. No more LW9 compatible versions just work on a new Core compatible release? Was Worley aware of Core before december when we was improving FP 3.2+, or has he stopped working on anything in the wake of the big changes happening? Why put in all the new SDK hooks for the last release of a product?

samartin
02-18-2009, 11:39 AM
Just remember to not use it with any node Materials and Shaders, and everything should be fine..

I have done a few scenes without nodes and I still get crashing, I preview a scene, change lights, etc... But I never leave FPrime running as I don't want my CPU to be churning away with all the anti-aliasing, so I close it and then do a few changes then Fprime it again.

But after a few times of closing and opening LW will just halt, everything stops responding so I have to initiate the task manager. It's got to the point where I'm afraid to open it, unless I've saved the scene and saved all objects!!!

I did see your video a while back and it looks very impressive, will deffo be one to watch out for I'm sure :)

samartin
02-18-2009, 11:43 AM
The big issue now is CORE. If everything is different architecturaly will we not see a Fprime for another year. No more LW9 compatible versions just work on a new Core compatible release? Was Worley aware of Core before december when we was improving FP 3.2+, or has he stopped working on anything in the wake of the big changes happening?

I personally think that CORE won't be an issue for Worley, as NT have decided to write from the core up I assume NT will do Viper on steroids.

I am also a (m) user and the preview window is pretty good in that said package and will be massively improved by all accounts.

I just hope Worley labs do come out with something soon, an announcement/newsletter of some sort would be fantastic. I check the website now and then and it's just so stagnant!

Anyways fingers crossed something comes out of the lab real soon

IMI
02-18-2009, 11:46 AM
The big issue now is CORE. If everything is different architecturaly will we not see a Fprime for another year. No more LW9 compatible versions just work on a new Core compatible release? Was Worley aware of Core before december when we was improving FP 3.2+, or has he stopped working on anything in the wake of the big changes happening?

Nothing against FPrime - I still love it and still use it when doing GI and not doing nodes, but I'm really hoping Core has its own version of FPrime, something that works with everything in LW. Like modo has...
Not just the idea of having to spend money on plugins, either, but if Core has its own built-in previewer, it's more likely future LW features will work with it, since they'll be more obligated to make it so. That would be better than waiting on Worley or someone to catch up to the advancements, IMO.

Sensei
02-18-2009, 11:56 AM
I have done a few scenes without nodes and I still get crashing,

The next time when it crash without nodes, make screen-shot of Windows crash message (press detail etc) and post it here.. I would like to see it.. If it's module unknown offset 0x0, it's jumping cpu to uninitialized call-backs (what happens with most of recent materials, which are using RandomFloat field in LWNodalAccess added in LW v9.5).



But after a few times of closing and opening LW will just halt, everything stops responding so I have to initiate the task manager. It's got to the point where I'm afraid to open it, unless I've saved the scene and saved all objects!!!

That's interesting. Did you try removing Fprime master instead of just closing button?

BTW, I have nice tool for quickly incrementally save objects and scenes
http://www.trueart.pl/?URIType=Directory&URI=Products/Plug-Ins/SaveSceneAndAllObjects
Handy with unstable software.. :)

clagman
02-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Yes Fprime needs updating, but in more areas than one might think. For all the folks that do linear work flows the lack of gamma setting on the preview mode drives me nuts. Sometimes the scenes are too dark to pick out the detail you are working but you don't want to boost the light source to compensate the previewer.

Needs node compatibility, gamma adjust, and capability to multipass render. Those are the three problems I run into constantly.

kfinla
02-18-2009, 12:14 PM
Nothing against FPrime - I still love it and still use it when doing GI and not doing nodes, but I'm really hoping Core has its own version of FPrime, something that works with everything in LW. Like modo has...
Not just the idea of having to spend money on plugins, either, but if Core has its own built-in previewer, it's more likely future LW features will work with it, since they'll be more obligated to make it so. That would be better than waiting on Worley or someone to catch up to the advancements, IMO.

I agree completely. And also hope NT makes its own Native previewer in Core. I own Modo and one of the draws certainly is the previewer that works with everything, including hair. That said NT is a small team. So one advantage is Worley focussed 365 days a year on making the best rendering tech he can. And in theory now (w/core), there are no SDK limitations. What NT can do, any 3rd party can do within LW.

PS. @ Clagman.. i believe G2 has the gamma type controls your looking for. It has several preset LUT tables. I use to use it for seeing what images would look like on a PC monitor (2.2) vs. a Mac monitor (1.8)

rezman
02-18-2009, 12:35 PM
My biggest fear with FPrime, and I've seen other apps go down this road, is that they will sit on their hands until Core is out and release a paid upgrade for Core, without any update or free upgrade for LW 9.6.

samartin
02-18-2009, 12:58 PM
@Sensei

I was trying so hard earlier to crash 9.6 and FPrime, and nothing... until now...

I decided to knock up a quick concept for a friend and then using FPrime I thought I'd get away with it! Did I buggery, I had saved about 10 mins ago and decided as it's a concept I could hold my faith in this wicked plug-in! Then it fell apart :-

http://www.plop.info/CGT/LW_FPRIME_Crash.jpg

Yet again it has really annoyed me! That's all I get from the crash, no pop-up window wanting to send data or anything. I go to task manager and then end the program (twice) as the 1st end now doesn't work!

@Mr Worley
Please Worley if you read this, we need an update to make FPrime an enjoyable and easy to use experience once again.

cheers

Scott

Sensei
02-18-2009, 01:15 PM
So it's dead-lock, not crash..

It happened here too quite often. Because LW v9.x-v9.5.1 are locking general lock before telling master plug-ins that they should shutdown rendering, and it deadlocks in LWCameraEvaluationFuncs->Evaluate() and/or Cleanup() (layout thread is locking global lock internal in LW not accessible to anyone, then sends message to masters telling that some change to scene will be made, then master is sending signal to rendering threads to shutdown, but they are indirectly using this lock, so they wait for layout thread, which is waiting for rendering thread, infinite). After mine detailed explaination Jarno Van Der Linden fixed it (issue with Perspective Camera/ACT). I thought it's gone for real! And you have LW v9.6.. which should not behave like LW v9.x-v9.5.1.. Maybe there is more locks in LW that are in wrong places..

Very important question- what was absolute the last thing that you did before dead-lock? Was it item movement, camera movement?
I see that you have Perspective Camera picked up, and Camera Properties window open..
I guess so you were playing in Graph Editor with Zoom Factor, right?
Try using Classic Camera instead, it won't use Advanced Camera Evaluation Functions, therefore should not dead-lock (in theory at least) in such circumstance.

Send more here if you find something..

samartin
02-18-2009, 01:28 PM
Last thing I was doing was actually using the graph editor, using the zoomfactor I was pushing up as far as I could then let go. I then tried clicking on the zoom icon so I could zoom out and then increase my zoom factor. At this point the dead-lock occurred!

Never heard the term dead-lock before but one thing I'm pretty sure about is that when I opened task-manager my cores weren't chugging away any longer! Not 100% sure as I was hacked off with not saving! :D

Sensei
02-18-2009, 01:34 PM
Dead-lock happens, when one thread is locking resource, then ask doing something second thread, which already locked this resource. Obviously cpus are idle (both threads waiting to release resource, and both can't get it, infinite). LW multi-threading functionality miss "resource locking with timeout", which would let threads go after some time. And second function "trying to lock resource, with immediately returning if it's already locked". But for sure LW has misplaced locking/unlocking global mutex without thinking while programming.

Okay. Load your scene once again. And try doing above couple times, to see whether you can repeat it.

If it's repeatable, try changing camera to Classic, save scene, and start doing exactly the same again..

samartin
02-18-2009, 01:42 PM
Will try again tomorrow and report my findings, I am going to hazard a guess that I won't repeat it as they do tend to be very random dead-locks.

cheers