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View Full Version : UV tools in Lightwave Core



realgray
02-15-2009, 12:17 AM
I'm just throwing this out there and would love to know peoples thoughts. I know that much more information is going to be made available before the March deadline and there are many different things that they can choose to preview. I just am hoping that they choose to show some nice uv tools. I really want to upgrade to Core but I've been waiting a long time, as I'm sure many other people have, for some nice uv tools. Not complaining, I love Lightwave. I just hope they show it some focus before the deadline to make my decision much easier.

hrgiger
02-15-2009, 05:00 AM
Well, they had implemented new UV tools in the 9.x beta but ended up pulling them saying they didn't feel they were up to the task. Perhaps something with the old architecture prevented them from making them the way they wanted? Who knows.
But for Core, I'm guessing that we'll have them. I can wait, I have UVlayout. UVlayout.com (http://www.uvlayout.com)

Sarford
02-15-2009, 06:24 AM
Yeah, if core doesn't have UV tools yet you can also use Blender, roadkill or Silo.

mccabejc
02-15-2009, 08:46 AM
Yeah, if core doesn't have UV tools yet you can also use Blender, roadkill or Silo.

So let's see...LW has been around for how many decades? And basic UV tools are included in virtually every 3D application on the planet. But for some reason, in all those years, they haven't yet gotten around to developing decent UV tools in LW. But somehow, after all these years of LW development, you guys believe that they will magically appear in Core.

"Kool aid" is right...

hrgiger
02-15-2009, 08:56 AM
So let's see...LW has been around for how many decades? And basic UV tools are included in virtually every 3D application on the planet. But for some reason, in all those years, they haven't yet gotten around to developing decent UV tools in LW. But somehow, after all these years of LW development, you guys believe that they will magically appear in Core.

"Kool aid" is right...

We already have decent UV tools in Lightwave so I'm not sure how suggesting that basic UV tools included in every other 3D application is a valid argument.
And as I said, they had implemented newer UV tools in the 9 beta but then pulled them for further development. So if they appear in Core, I would hardly cal that magical. It seems they have been in development for some time now.

mccabejc
02-15-2009, 09:50 AM
We already have decent UV tools in Lightwave...

Are you joking?? LW doesn't even have UV Unwrapping !!! Even a "toy" application like Carrara or Hexagon has UV Unwrapping. That is a basic UV tool. Folks have been relying upon a plugin to compensate for the lack of this (and other) basic functionality in LW for many many years.

But Core will fix all that...

jay3d
02-15-2009, 10:05 AM
Again ....

Don't feed the trolls

Thank you :)

hrgiger
02-15-2009, 10:12 AM
Are you joking?? LW doesn't even have UV Unwrapping !!! Even a "toy" application like Carrara or Hexagon has UV Unwrapping. That is a basic UV tool. Folks have been relying upon a plugin to compensate for the lack of this (and other) basic functionality in LW for many many years.

But Core will fix all that...

Well, we apparently all have different ideas about what basic functionality is. Unwrapping is not all that different then what we have in Lightwave now, we just don't have as much control over the initial projection as other applications do that have pinning and other methods to constrain the way the mesh is wrapped. You can still UV pretty much anything in Lightwave that you can in all your other apps, there's just a little more work involved sometimes.
I use UVlayout because it's better then what most of the other applications have so it's not just to make up for lack of functionality in LW, I'd use it no matter what main 3D app I was using.
And you have no clue as to what Core will have or not have so we'll just have to wait and see. But the UV tool they had in the 9 beta had unwrapping so I can't imagine that we won't have it in Core.

MiniFireDragon
02-15-2009, 10:38 AM
If you need help with UV Unwrapping in Lightwave Larry Schultz (Spline Guide) has a Video out that explains it called "UV Texturing in Lightwave" which can be found here:

http://www.kurvstudios.com/lightwave/texturing.php

Since I have watched that I have no problems creating UV maps inside of Lightwave with ease. U just have to learn what the tools are you need to do it with.

mccabejc
02-15-2009, 10:55 AM
If you need help with UV Unwrapping in Lightwave Larry Schultz (Spline Guide) has a Video out that explains it...

Larry has some wonderful training resources, and I've used many of them. But there shouldn't be a need to buy additional training resources for simple UV mapping. LW should have, at least, the same tools that every other application has. Y'know, like seams and pins. You shouldn't have to do a workaround, or find a plugin.

But that has been LW's history: finding workarounds, spending hours and hours on training because LW is so counterintuitive, and finding plugins for all the functions that don't exist.

Which is just one reason why I don't have much optimism for Core. Probably more of the same.

hrgiger
02-15-2009, 11:03 AM
Larry has some wonderful training resources, and I've used many of them. But there shouldn't be a need to buy additional training resources for simple UV mapping.

You don't. You could try reading the manual, that's always a good start. Yes, LW doesn't have some of the more recent developments in UV tools but the UV tools in Lightwave are functional just the same.
I think you're just blowing hot air anyway. Show me something that you've UV mapped in another application that you don't think can be mapped in LW.

mccabejc
02-15-2009, 11:05 AM
Again ....

Don't feed the trolls

Thank you :)

Cute, but kinda childish, don't ya' think? I'm sorry if you don't like contrary views, but to characterize folks who aren't joining in the giggle fest as trolls is kinda childish.

I have many, rational reasons to be very skeptical about the future of Core, and I have yet to see ONE reason to be optimistic. If you can't provide a rational response, then at least don't start the name calling.

Frank_Geppert
02-15-2009, 11:30 AM
I agree to both sides. I could do whatever I wanted in LW but often it took a lot of manually editing of my UVs. Then I bought Modo and learned how fast this can be. I saw that some tasks can be done with a click of a mouse and not manually editing, moving and re-organizing uv's. I spent most time in the uv-editor, much more time than in the modeling view. A better uv-workflow is worth its money. And I am happy that Modo feels for me like a great super-plugin for LW. It offers better UV-mapping, 3d-painting and sculpting and even more consolidated modeling tools. And I still can do the rendering and animation in LW.

Of course it would be great to have all this in Core but first we have to see any proof of it. Before that happens a Modo / LW combination is just unbeatable.

geothefaust
02-15-2009, 12:25 PM
This is one of my biggest complaints about Lightwave.

It has very basic UV tools. They barely get the job done, and it takes a long time. PLG UV tools do help, but having something native would be much better.

UVLayout is a great program, I can't imagine having something like that native in LW, but definitely something akin to what is currently in Maya for UV tools would be great. In fact Maya has some of the best out of the box UV tools, IMHO.

realgray
02-15-2009, 04:14 PM
Lightwave is by far my favorite 3d package and has been for some time. But I really don't want to have to keep stacking on plugins. Significant advancements in UV'ing is where I draw the line before upgrading. I just hope they show something before the march deadline.

Iain
02-15-2009, 05:06 PM
I want it in writing that Core will UV unwrap better than any other app before I sign up.

Yes.

jasonwestmas
02-15-2009, 05:10 PM
So let's see...LW has been around for how many decades? And basic UV tools are included in virtually every 3D application on the planet. But for some reason, in all those years, they haven't yet gotten around to developing decent UV tools in LW. But somehow, after all these years of LW development, you guys believe that they will magically appear in Core.

"Kool aid" is right...

LW has Cylindrical, Spherical, Planar and Cubic UV "Unwrapping". It's tough to use on organic forms yes, but it's never a case of "Impossible" It just takes a little longer to do things that way because you have to straighten out all of the stretching in the areas the traditional mappings create on complex forms using the UV editor and a checker UV map. At one time, in every package I was using, I had to mostly use Planar mapping on models, but first I had to take apart the model by hand so I could reduce overlapping and stretching in the UVs when I applied the planar projection.

realgray
02-15-2009, 05:26 PM
I know there are lots of ways of doing it right now. I guess I'm just anxious to see easy to use uv tools. I'm also a little worried about what they will choose to show before March 31.

thomascheng
02-15-2009, 05:52 PM
Lightwave is by far my favorite 3d package and has been for some time. But I really don't want to have to keep stacking on plugins. Significant advancements in UV'ing is where I draw the line before upgrading. I just hope they show something before the march deadline.

I don't find this to be that much of a problem since all the tools in LW are plugins. Its just a matter of what they ship with the program. But PLG is completely free and easy to install. I suspect the reason why they haven't work on UV mapping is because PLG got it covered. Now if PLG cost money, that is a different story. Here's hoping Core is awesome.

Cageman
02-15-2009, 06:33 PM
PLG UV tools spanks Modos in terms of Unwrapping. Not in the sense of interactivity, but in accuracy and speed. We've been comparing them at work and the difference is huge, really.

With that said, there is alot to be desired, and frankly speaking, it would be sad if CORE would rely on third party plugins to make good UV tools. However, ever since LW9.0 NewTek has, more or less, been working on CORE. And, as we all understand by now, it wasn't worthwhile enough to try to patch Modeler together... too many issues, really.

:)

Cageman
02-15-2009, 06:35 PM
Again ....

Don't feed the trolls

Thank you :)

LOL... Nice code there! :)

jasonwestmas
02-15-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't find this to be that much of a problem since all the tools in LW are plugins. Its just a matter of what they ship with the program. But PLG is completely free and easy to install. I suspect the reason why they haven't work on UV mapping is because PLG got it covered. Now if PLG cost money, that is a different story. Here's hoping Core is awesome.

True but the "Native" Plugins get developed and updated by NT when broken. This happens before the 3rd party plugins get updated. That's the disadvantage, there's no telling how long the wait. There are workarounds of course.

jasonwestmas
02-15-2009, 06:36 PM
PLG UV tools spanks Modos in terms of Unwrapping. Not in the sense of interactivity, but in accuracy and speed. We've been comparing them at work and the difference is huge, really.

With that said, there is alot to be desired, and frankly speaking, it would be sad if CORE would rely on third party plugins to make good UV tools. However, ever since LW9.0 NewTek has, more or less, been working on CORE. And, as we all understand by now, it wasn't worthwhile enough to try to patch Modeler together... too many issues, really.

:)

Hehe, that's funny. I've been using PLG UV for so long that I never had a reason to use UV tools elsewhere this whole time.

Well come to think of it I was first using Lynx 3D's UV mapping tool then UV Neter, then PLG came into the picture later.

SkidBoot
02-15-2009, 07:11 PM
That makes me laugh-
Quote from Iain- "I want it in writing that Core will UV unwrap better than any other app before I sign up."

Is it just me, or has innovation picked up in Lightwave since the previous development team left to start....... the app that shall not be spoken of. Sure the 8.X cycle was an issue from what others have said, but I attribute that to the rebuilding period. The current LW team is sure pouring it on now with the 9.X cycle. And now with 10 announced and a new direction, they continue to do good things.

Heck, even users from.... the app that shall not be spoken of..... are heading back to Lightwave due to the instability, lack of development to complete half-made tools, and the lack of info about the next release. Only recently has........ the app that shall not be spoken of..... started releasing info, and it's all crap that has already been released over the past month or so. Maybe the past problems with LW can be linked to the other app's development team since folks here seem to be getting happier with each release and folks at the "other board" are beginning to speak of deja vu from earlier LW days. LW discussions are beginning to pop up on the "other" board.

I have held off on purchasing software until I could be sure which one I was going to be happy with. There are many things I like about Maya, except the price. The thing I like about......... the app that shall not be spoken of...... is the price; the app is just too unstable for me (it shouldn't crash when I draw a box and move a vert; and if anybody else asks me to check if VBO's are off, I will flip.....).

Yup, Lightwave seems to be heading in a direction I am happy with. Hopefully the economy doesn't claim another victim here. And hopefully the current marketing plan isn't an answer to a financial problem. I know their marketing tactics are subpar, but the product appears to be good.

P.S. Most of this is thinking out loud.

P.S.S. I agree; do NOT feed the trolls. It causes high blood pressure.:twak:

JeffrySG
02-15-2009, 10:20 PM
I don't find this to be that much of a problem since all the tools in LW are plugins. Its just a matter of what they ship with the program. But PLG is completely free and easy to install. I suspect the reason why they haven't work on UV mapping is because PLG got it covered. Now if PLG cost money, that is a different story. Here's hoping Core is awesome.

It would be a lot better if the PLG tools actually ran on the Mac UB version. At least they run on the MacCFM version... the CFM is super slow though...

zardoz
02-16-2009, 02:35 AM
I also use the PLG plguins and I've tried other third party solutions and in my opinion plg are the best.
But I'm afraid if in some lw version they get broken. So yes, newtek should create their own unwrap plugin.

Frank_Geppert
02-16-2009, 02:55 AM
I appreciate your comments towards PLG. But PLG just like every plugin will no more work in Core. It has to be rewritten then.


Is it just me, or has innovation picked up in Lightwave since the previous development team left to start.......

As a beta user I was also very much impressed how fast the NT dev team worked on new releases. But I would not call it innovations. Most tasks were bug fixes and then there were some convenient feature but no real innovations in 9.6. The rendering improved though. Nevertheless I think it is a great, if not the best release of LW.

We will see what kind of innovations will happen with Core. So far we know only little about the software architecture and almost nothing about the artists tools.