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View Full Version : BOLT 'disney film , just seen it !



OnlineRender
02-10-2009, 11:46 AM
Just back from the pictures "that Scottish for cinema " with my kids , i wanted to see womb raider but the wife said no!

Overall the animation was breath-taken at times , story was your typical good guy vrs bad guy disney flick with a moral issue thrown in for good measure .

Online Render's Rating 6 / 10

http://www.iwatchstuff.com/2008/06/27/bolt-trailer-disney.jpg

Sarford
02-10-2009, 01:19 PM
with a moral issue thrown in for good measure .


That is excactly what always totaly wreks those American animation films. Technicaly very good but somehow they can't make an animation flick without telling people how to live, think, act etc.

Time for Political Correctness to die a quick but painfull death.

kopperdrake
02-10-2009, 01:21 PM
Time for Political Correctness to die a quick but painfull death.

But a death involving no blood, all of the family around, and PC flying off into the clouds whilst the rest of the cast have their hair wafted by PC's spirit, ensuring them that there is indeed a life after death and everything is good in the world with PC looking down on them.

cresshead
02-10-2009, 01:44 PM
bolt's actually a pretty good film...not perfect but a whole lot better than open season 2 for example,

rezman
02-10-2009, 01:47 PM
Only a naive fool would think "non-moral" films don't tell people how to live. Simply because an agenda of evil and hate and cynicism is so common today does not mean it is the correct philosophy of life.

It seems the only viewpoint that is forbidden today is that of a God loving moral one.

JeffrySG
02-10-2009, 01:48 PM
That is excactly what always totaly wreks those American animation films.

Come on. Let's be honest. This is exactly what wrecks pretty much all American films. :D


I didn't see the film yet, but I want to rent it when it comes out.

rezman
02-10-2009, 02:07 PM
I was REALLY hesitant with Miley Cyrus as one of the voices, but was pleasantly surprised. Amazing animation and art direction, cute story, and some really good laughs. The hamster steals the show. :D

AbnRanger
02-10-2009, 02:39 PM
That is excactly what always totaly wreks those American animation films. Technicaly very good but somehow they can't make an animation flick without telling people how to live, think, act etc.

Time for Political Correctness to die a quick but painfull death.

Uh...so "Chicken Little" was supposed to teach me how to, uh....uh...ummm, how to eat more chicken?
Seriously...where have you been? From the very beginning, that has been Disney's M.O. Way before you were even born. If you have a problem with it, may I suggest you don't watch.
Funny how people have no problem with corrupt values persistently thrown in our faces (like it or not)...but let a show include some good values and here comes the b!tchfest :foreheads

AbnRanger
02-10-2009, 02:47 PM
Only a naive fool would think "non-moral" films don't tell people how to live. Simply because an agenda of evil and hate and cynicism is so common today does not mean it is the correct philosophy of life.

It seems the only viewpoint that is forbidden today is that of a God loving moral one.Exactly...they have no beef with sleezy Superbowl ads, knowing that kids are watching...but they get up in arms if a Disney animation conveys the message that "it's wrong to lie, cheat, and steal"

lwanmtr
02-10-2009, 03:16 PM
Wonder how much of the animation was done in US and how much in India...LOL

BigHache
02-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Wonder how much of the animation was done in US and how much in India...LOL

All of it. :D

probiner
02-10-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm a moralist myself so pointing out for other to do so would be hipocrate :S
The problem in my opinion is the canones. I went to see Bolt. And before the film ended i kinda had seen it before. After some minutes i knew the film structure and i just admired the visual work, wich is great.
This knowledge comes from stated film stuctures we all see everytime and they are very useful for educational pourpuses for example (repetition, antecipation). The "all happy" values are good in general. No one wants to bring a son back home crying and badly impressed by something. But... lots of us don't like to lie and 'create' Santa Claus in childrens head, so all that 'happy' stuff feels stupid after a while.

As an adult i don't like to see all kinds of crappy values works being 'worshiped' by a lot of ppl and intelectuals in mainstream artistic works. But, freedom rules. And has an adult i somtimes find myself more interested in a Anime, wich has dark and weird stuff in it then a Disney feature, clean and happy

Well here i think theres the root issue. Animes are made of Manga's, i think only Gibli Studio is not. But the quality and variety of Mangas and the story quality is better then the US comics, i think. US comics turn into live action movies. Wich is freaking strange sometimes. While in Japan the pick they give life to static figures and scenes with great stories quality and not all messed up Maravel or DC or whatever "universes".

Problem is not the moralism or the continuos gags (like Madagascar) . Sometimes its there is nothing else to say, or leave in the open for us to 'fly' in the movie. Its just there to be the film of the season and sell. wich is fine to go with your girlfriend :D

Sarford
02-10-2009, 04:09 PM
Only a naive fool would think "non-moral" films don't tell people how to live. Simply because an agenda of evil and hate and cynicism is so common today does not mean it is the correct philosophy of life.

It is ofcourse how wide you wanna see things but now you're making it look like every movie every made, every story ever told, every book ever written was meant to tell people how to live. I don't agree with that.
I find it also a bit strange that you drag in a 'agenda of evil and hate and cynicism', like there is only one or the other.

Good stories can entertain us, move us, endear us, repell us, shock us etc. without any other reason or motivation than that. Look at the movies of Wim Wenders for instance, moving stories without the 'Pay atention folks! This is how you should behave!' Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if it wasn't so bloody obvious.


It seems the only viewpoint that is forbidden today is that of a God loving moral one.
Eh.. excuse me? Maybe we can keep him (or her) out of the discussion?

lwanmtr
02-10-2009, 04:16 PM
Yeah, I can find no real morality message in the movie 'Alien' ....unless it's 'dont touch the big eggs in the dark mist covered spaceship'...which, by the way are words to live by.

hrgiger
02-10-2009, 06:54 PM
I think I havent' liked an animated film this much since Incredibles. I thought the visuals and action were top notch.

rezman
02-10-2009, 07:32 PM
Eh.. excuse me? Maybe we can keep him (or her) out of the discussion?

Oops! I'm sorry did I say a forbidden word? How embarrassing.

And hrgiger, my thoughts exactly. While watching it, I'm thinking "What the heck!?! This is really good!" The slamming of cynical Hollywood was so dead on. And, how refreshing not having all the characters smart alecky, cynical, punks. With this film I am really seeing the soul of Disney return.

ted
02-10-2009, 07:42 PM
Wow, some of you guys are soooo sensitive. :D
It's a Movie, just a movie.
I enjoyed it for the annimation AND the story.
For some reason the texturing on the Shipping carton caught my eye.

tijgervisuals
02-11-2009, 01:21 AM
Look, here's a pin. Let's pin the morality discussion and put it.....
Oh whatever, I loved the flick. :thumbsup:

DiedonD
02-11-2009, 01:57 AM
Seeing Bolt made me notice its movie structures aswell. It was obvious how it was going to be. Especially when all of the dogs imaginary skills were beeing reused in real life, and imaginationar skills were finding themselves a useful outlet in real life. And it was becoming more obvious, when they left out the bark one! I was like:

Ok so now youll be finding a useful real manner for the dog to express his skills, and youre left with bark? What on earth can be barking be good else, other than calling for help!

I know it sounds way too general, cause barking can be used for far many things than that, but if you watched the movie, youd just KNOW hes gonna do that for help.

Its old structure kinda.

Kids love em though! They have years to see the same structure before beeing bored from it like us here.

As for morality! Id rather have morality in arts, teaching people how its the best for all, rather than in churches, mosques and other places.

I know them are politically oriented an all.

I still have yet to see how a child cartoon movie gets politically flavoured without the all noticing parents main finger at the stop button on the remote control!

One you can stop just like that, the other you cant as easily!

OnlineRender
02-11-2009, 04:37 AM
woow easy tiger , it wasnt meant to turn political or pointing the fingure at certain companys that use moral statemeants in there story , after all there has to be some concept . i was just saying anybody seen it .

Sarford
02-11-2009, 05:37 AM
Oops! I'm sorry did I say a forbidden word? How embarrassing.

No forbidden word or embarrasing. Just trying to keep it a bit on topic as we have enough threads already with religious people and non-religious people taking it out on each other.


Well, it seems lots of people realy like it when moral messages are put into animation films so I guess the studios are right on target there. Personaly I don't think its Hollywoods business to tell me or my kids whats right and whats wrong but aperently a lot of people do need that guidence. Oh wel..

shrox
02-11-2009, 05:46 AM
Don't forget, it was Walt Disney teaming up with Wernher von Braun that started the space age. Until then it was science fiction.

DiedonD
02-11-2009, 05:49 AM
woow easy tiger , it wasnt meant to turn political or pointing the fingure at certain companys that use moral statemeants in there story , after all there has to be some concept . i was just saying anybody seen it .

The thing about these forums Stef, is that its just like pouring tons of water into a streamless area when you open up a topic. You never know where it will go.

Ive rarely seen a thread that didnt at least have slightest attempts at going a bit OT (Thats Off Topic :)

Nicolas Jordan
02-11-2009, 05:59 AM
Time for Political Correctness to die a quick but painfull death.

:agree:


I also think most animated characters these days need a good dose of valium to be normal. :grumpy:

ericsmith
02-11-2009, 08:50 AM
I haven't seen Bolt yet, so I can't comment on how heavy handed it was with the moral/theme, but I can say that all movies do this to some degree, and they always have. In fact, this has been a fundimental aspect of storytelling for thousands of years.

The key do doing it right is to not have it so "on the surface". To hide it in subtext, so the viewer doesn't overtly know they're being told the message.

Even in Aliens: "At least they don't F*** thier own kind"

This was from the second one, not the first, but the message was carried through from the first one. The theme was about how greed and power can make man willing to do very evil things.

There are of course some films made that ignore the need for a theme, and they pretty much always fail commercially.

The really fun part of exploring all this is that what it really comes down to is a character with both an external problem and an internal conflict. The internal conflict is something they need to learn or change about themselves, and they can't solve the external problem until they work out their own inner issue(s). And ultimately, it's getting inside their head and watching them work through their inner stuff that makes us empathize or care about what happens to them.

So without a theme/moral, we wouldn't care about the characters, and ultimately the story.

Eric

shrox
02-11-2009, 09:06 AM
...So without a theme/moral, we wouldn't care about the characters, and ultimately the story.

Eric

Yep, that is exactly why Aesop's Fables has remained popular for over 2600 years.

probiner
02-11-2009, 11:52 AM
:agree:


I also think most animated characters these days need a good dose of valium to be normal. :grumpy:

The problem is not the "reality" of the characters. Well for me what always fascinated me is when i pay a ticket not to see a film but to go on a short trip. Yes we want to be fooled :D But the tricks that worked with us when kids don't work anymore. So maybe we just need to change the source :D
I still see animation features on televison, most of them drawned. Some, are really good and even tough i know the content is not suitable for me i like to apreciate those fine works that we sometimes misscare, cause... it's television. SO, bottom line. New age new "drugs".

One factor i think it works for all ages and leaves people mind flying, kids and grownups, is ODD.
When we see odd things we wonder and dream and try to figure... Walt Disney works odd only in the funny side, cause kids have to understand and not feel confused or scary.

For me its just this: theres lack of space for us grownups to "fly". It's not just about a convincing personality or character, it's mainly about our entropia. :P
I "fly" a lot in many Anime or non-mainstream animations (Shouth America, Canada, Europe...), altough i have a strong ceptic atitude.

BigHache
02-11-2009, 09:10 PM
... but aperently a lot of people do need that guidence. Oh wel..

I think that would be an accurate statement. Along the lines of "common sense" isn't always as common as one would like to think, because it becomes relative to the individual.

I enjoyed the film, not because of it's message or morals, but simply because I knew what it was going in, and purposed to just enjoy the thing. In terms of content, yeah, it's kinda the same placid stuff Disney's been churning out, but I don't expect a masterpiece work of art from them either. I think what I liked best about the content of this film was that it was so campy that it was enjoyable.

warrenwc
03-29-2009, 05:12 PM
Bump
Just finally saw this on DVD.
LOVED IT!

___mats___
03-29-2009, 05:31 PM
Yep, that is exactly why Aesop's Fables has remained popular for over 2600 years.

QFA !

darn Aesop, he must have been working for Disney !

BTW, it was a really cute movie, it is Disney to the core and the quality was excellent.

Sarford, they are not imposing how your kids should live life, you can teach them otherwise (maybe that cheating, lying, etc.. is good).

People have the freedom not to watch the movie at any time, this is just a product, like anything else you buy/consume or choose not to.

Serling
03-29-2009, 09:40 PM
"...but let a show include some good values and here comes the b!tchfest..."

You probably won't like a lot of the reviews written about "Knowing", then. You'd think, by some people's reactions, the film was made by Pat Robertson and endorsed by Focus on the Family!

Of course, nothing could be further from the truth, but the mere one-time mention of the word "prayer" in the film produced the kind of vitriol and knee-jerk reaction previously reserved only for Republicans!

There is nothing "fundy Christian" in the film "Knowing", unless you want to talk about images from the Old Testament which are - fundamentally - Jewish images. The rest of the film is a weird but fairly harmless conflation of sci-fi, "Revelationesque" eschatology and Genesis which - again - was written by Moses and revered equally by Jews and Christians.

Anyway, some of the reviews written of this film tell me more about the reviewers' particular points of view than the film's.

mattclary
03-30-2009, 10:30 AM
My daughter and I have watched this movie together several times, and I never felt preached to. It was a cute kid's movie with a happy ending, don't read too much into it.

DBMiller
03-30-2009, 11:04 AM
But a death involving no blood, all of the family around, and PC flying off into the clouds whilst the rest of the cast have their hair wafted by PC's spirit, ensuring them that there is indeed a life after death and everything is good in the world with PC looking down on them.

Why not? It's how I intend to go out!:thumbsup:

Sarford
03-30-2009, 05:54 PM
QFA !
Sarford, they are not imposing how your kids should live life, you can teach them otherwise (maybe that cheating, lying, etc.. is good).

Wow, that is a realy strange remark, is there only a choice between what disney endorses (family valeus) or teaching them to cheat and ly???? Looks by that remark like that is the way you think it is.

And they DO tell you how to live (or rather, what is prefered behaviour) if they put not-to-miss morals in the movie. If you follow them or not is a completely different story, and not my concern here.



QFA !
People have the freedom not to watch the movie at any time, this is just a product, like anything else you buy/consume or choose not to.

You are right, people don't have to watch the movie and it is just a product. But these things (putting in those moral values) realy ruin a perfectly good movie for me, and I hate that. I don't think its Disneys place to tell me (watching the movie) whats right and whats wrong. It is called propaganda, and I hate that in any form or shape from any side or group.... well.. maybe propaganda is a bit too strong word for it, but it pointing in the same direction.

Anyhow, it is mainly a personal gripe (as you can see from the reactions) and maybe because I'm european, maybe its americans are more used to it, I don't know...

JeffrySG
09-27-2009, 07:16 AM
Just finally saw this too. Really enjoyed it. I loved the pidgeons the most. They always cracked me up.

hazmat777
09-30-2009, 02:07 AM
Most, if not all, the pigeons were animated by Mike Belzer. In case anyone was curious.

Red_Oddity
09-30-2009, 02:59 AM
It was a fun well done movie (some oddd things like the backgrounds that change radically towards the ending or the utter and complete static nature scenes, but not that it broke the movie or anything)

Still, i would have loved to have known what Chris Sanders would have made of American Dog (i love that guys work, and i found the initial style was a hundred times better than the more generic look that Bolt got.)

Deadlyforce
09-30-2009, 07:49 AM
I've just seen that movie a few weeks ago because a friend told me it was more entertaining than "everyday" animation films.

Well, I didn't like it at all. I thought the storyline was very predictable for starters. Then, the hamster could have been fun (because of its look) but wasn't that fun (because of bad dialogue lines). The crying little girl was too much for me too. I hate crying children in kid's movies (I'm sensitive but that one is too easy). I've seen too much of that.

The hollywood idiot guy was a total nightmare to watch. Everything about him is sooo first degree...Nothing subtle here.

Many people think that those kind of basic action packed uninspired movies are good for kids...but I tend to think that kids for the most part are not stupid and they can do very well with more refined and ambiguous stories. I don't remember any good example right now but I'm sure they exist.

As for the good old morals I hate that too, and I fear that every time I take the risk to watch one of those animated movies.
Nothing to say about the technical aspect, which is excellent most of the time. That includes Bolt.

Now, call me an idiot but I kind of enjoyed Kung Fu Panda. :D
I don't know...If I have to get a message in an animation movie I prefer it to be clever. And everybody can relate to it their own way. Predictable storyline too, but interesting philosophy behind...that's what I like maybe...

Lightwolf
09-30-2009, 08:16 AM
I hate crying children in kid's movies (I'm sensitive but that one is too easy). I've seen too much of that.
Except for Boo of course :D

Cheers,
Mike

Red_Oddity
09-30-2009, 01:50 PM
As for the good old morals I hate that too, and I fear that every time I take the risk to watch one of those animated movies.

Man, you're gonna love Pixar's Cars then.