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shemp
02-10-2009, 07:43 AM
Sorry if this has been asked & answered. Is Core going to be “subscription” based – i.e. that you have to pay so much every so often? One of the docs I read almost gave me that impression.

Shemp

Alliante
02-10-2009, 07:54 AM
Sorry if this has been asked & answered. Is Core going to be “subscription” based – i.e. that you have to pay so much every so often? One of the docs I read almost gave me that impression.

Shemp

No you can join HardCORE which includes such, but you can upgrade CORE just as you did previous Lightwave versions (although the upgrade price has gone up to US$695)

http://www.newtek.com/core/faq.php

shemp
02-10-2009, 06:26 PM
Thanks for the reply. It was this statement from the FAQ that concerned me:

"LightWave v9 owners gain HardCORE™ membership for US$395 (Charter Member price) through March 31, 2009, beginning April 1, HardCORE™ annual memberships for LightWave v9 owners will increase to US$495."

Sure gives the impression of a yearly subscription price just to use it - not just upgrade it.

Shemp

lots
02-10-2009, 08:09 PM
See: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95086

dwburman
02-10-2009, 10:03 PM
You don't need a HardCORE membership to use LightwaveCORE. It is basically the beta program... you get access to unreleased builds and the CORE forums and as a reward for your participation in development, you get a discount on the upgrade and extra videos to watch.

You're not the only one to be confuse by this. There were a lot of people freaking out before it was clarified.

shemp
02-11-2009, 08:30 PM
See: http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95086

Thanks. That explained it!

Shemp

robk
02-11-2009, 09:13 PM
I'm sure this must be elsewhere but I can't find it. I bought a Hadrdcore subscription on Monday. All I have to show for it a receipt from Newtek. I phoned Newtek on Tuesday and was informed I would be getting a email on how to get to the hardcore forums. It is Wednesday evening and still no email about how to get to the new forum. I know the software is not ready for testing but the processing of orders are going real slow.
Hardcore has not turned up on my products page either. We still only have our 3 seats of 9.6 and our speed edit are listed.
What is going on?????????
Just before the end of the day one of my employees tells me that customer service does not know what they are talking about and I already have the numbers to log into the hardcore forums.
Buying the hardcore subscription was also confusing since I had to re-enter all my name, company info, etc. to subscribe to hardcore even though we own the products noted above. Another thing that ticked me off was I was asked to enter a password which was rejected by the system with the message "password must be at least 6 characters". My password was 6 characters and I tried to enter it about 3 times and it got rejected each time. The registration process seems just as bad as the unveiling. Sad, very sad.
Someone at Newtek should straighten out this info.

Jim Plant said:
"We know we can do better, and we'll be posting more LightWave CORE videos in the very near future."

I also want to rant a bit about Jim Plant's apology. He said we would be getting more info in the very near future. In my books the VERY near future is a day or two and not counted in weeks.

UnCommonGrafx
02-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Rob,
I'm gonna have to join you since, as of tonight, it ain't right.

{Snippage of some harsh dissatisfied customer commentary}

I am choosing to think that NT had thousands of orders surpassing their expectations by 10 or 20 times. This is the only way I can imagine that they haven't processed my order by now. That and the fact that their order system is hosed programmatically and is totally illogical.

I may allow myself to imagine the other side of this equation of competence...

Hopper
02-11-2009, 10:12 PM
Odd. I had no issues.

I ordered, got the confirmation email.

Registered my product (yeah, it was odd typing in information they already have - and you have to be logged in already to even be there).

Got another email two days later saying my hardcore account was activated (which is kinda funny because the email was about my account that "would" be activated soon).

After I received that email, the membership showed up in my products list.

That same day I had access to the forums. No email notification, but the Core threads started showing up in my "New Posts" list.

All in all, I didn't think it was too terribly difficult or confusing. There was a bit of deficiency in the manual process, but I think this is the first time they have done anything like this, so they're probably still working out the kinks.

dhath45
02-11-2009, 10:43 PM
As soon as I purchased my Hardcore subscription, I received a receipt in my email from Newtek. It had a link to the "Lightwave3DCoreWallpaper.zip", right below that was a license key number. I copied the license key number into the membership number of my Hardcore registration window, put in my user ID into the Forum ID window, and I was registered. I then got a conformation email that my Hardcore membership was activated.

evenflcw
02-11-2009, 10:59 PM
I also want to rant a bit about Jim Plant's apology. He said we would be getting more info in the very near future. In my books the VERY near future is a day or two and not counted in weeks.

"The very near future" is one or two days? Not even "Within the next few days" is that soon. You must really be living in the fast lane. So what expression do you use for "within a month"? "Sometime this millenium"?

But nomatter what he said, imho an apology must be followed up by action to repair the damage done. An apology is not an action, but a plea for renewed trust. And renewed trust was given by alot of people. About a week should be enough to produce some kind of new video(s) and more detailed information. If they can't produce anything within that period they ought to come out and say so, because that is what I think is the time frame that most were expecting to see something new within. If you let that deadline slip, all will soon be forgotten, the apology essentially turned mute and the curious minds of the average lwuser will slip back into idle mode (not expecting anything until the next surprise attack). Here's hoping we get to see/hear something before the end of the week.

meshpig
02-12-2009, 12:47 AM
Yeah, it's a bit steep. I want the bio-chemical rush straight away when I exercise my spending power albeit only 2 days have passed since placing the order.

m:)

cglensmith
02-14-2009, 08:58 PM
OK, I have spent a bunch of time reading through these forums, trying to understand this HARDCORE subscription offer before me. At the risk of appearing not to bright, here is what it seems to me so far. Subscribe now (pay) and when the new LW Core (essentially LW10) hits the streets in Q4 2009 you get it as part of the subscription, $400 or $500 depending how quickly you sign up. Don't subscribe now and you can still pay $700 for an upgrade from LW9 to LW10 (Core), at that time, albeit $200-$300 more expensive. Yikes!

It would appear if you plan to upgrade, get in while you can! A key problem, as I see it, is that it's not clear to me just how functional or what will be in Core, how far along they are in development and whether the changes warrant me sticking with LW, as a hobbyist. Don't get me wrong. I'm a long time customer (from the Amiga days) and have appreciated what they have done over the last while. Running LW9.6 now.

OK, to make my decision a bit easier, let's assume that they release some videos that demonstrate that Core is amazing, includes all the functionality of LW9 and more, but in a sleek new interface and updated development language! I can't live without it! I rush out and buy my "subscription". Things get a bit fdelayed, but early in Q1 2010, they finally get out the finished working version, with the typical bug fixes that will follow in Q2 and Q3 2010. Again, this is not criticism, just a fact of software development it seems. We're talking brand new code here, remember. All right, so if you're still with me, my subscription likely ended when the LW10 Core finally shipped or a month after....

So I assume you all noticed that it is being suggested that i re-subscribe? Why does this sound like something that would be repeated every year? Charter members seem to keep their subscription at the reduced rate (duly noted), but why would I want to re-subscribe unless I was promised another major release update? Are they planning to do that annually now?! If NT wants to know what we think, we already have forums for that. An annual subscription is not going give me any special power or influence over their decision making and development cycles. Re-subscribe for what? Why do I want to pay for another year "subscription"? Not for free bug fixes, that's for sure! Is it because I will receive "free" access to all new upgrade releases that come out during 2010-2011? Like LW10.2, 10.3,10.5,10.6 or LW11? What if their isn't an upgrade during the yearly term? If I need a subscription to get free access to annual upgrades, it only provides value if their is an annual upgrade, LW2010, LW2011 and then LW2012, etc, etc, each year. Just what would the eventual cost of a new LW license be if this is the new upgrade pricing model!?

Why wouldn't users just wait until they put out an upgrade like they have always done? Exactly, and it seems like they are giving us the freedom to make that choice. Sounds good, but they've made the subscription cheaper than the upgrade price for a reason. While some seem thankful that they can still choose to upgrade when they want, skip versions, or opt in-out of the subscription, it seems clear to me that NT is going to make us pay dearly for making a choice other than the subscription this year and that worries me for what I can expect in the future. They have already told us it will cost at least $200 more to upgrade, if you choose not to be a subscriber. Where's the freedom of choice in that. If I'm going to remain a NT fan and customer, they need to do a better job explaining what this pricing model is really going to look like out into the future, cuz I have only until April Fool's to figure out what they're up to. What happens when I skip an upgrade or two and then want to go shell out some coin to be up-to-date. How will the folks who have been shelling out the "subscription" fee at $400 for the past 3 years feel, when I get my upgrade for less than half that price? Not cool.

So here's the deal, I'm not going to be shelling out $1200 in three years to catch up to the rest of you. So.... that's why understanding what NT is up to is important to me. The problem is that I can't tell from anything I've read, what their new pricing model really is, cuz' I need to decide if I'm in or out.

Again, this is not a rant. For those of you in the big 3D production houses or making a living off your craft, a lot of my jabbering is moot. For a hobbyist, paying $395US ($500CDN) or more each year so I can avoid the costs associated with any new updates released during the year would just be too rich for my wallet.

LW has been the stepping stone for a lot of little guys into the big leagues.... I'm just concerned that this might be over. Here's hoping it's not. :(

P.S. All the above, is based on my assumption that LW9 will be the last of the current development cycle and Core will become the new LW10 or replace it. Put another way, there will be no LW10 and LW Core running side by side in the future.

mattclary
02-15-2009, 08:39 AM
Thanks for the reply. It was this statement from the FAQ that concerned me:

"LightWave v9 owners gain HardCORE™ membership for US$395 (Charter Member price) through March 31, 2009, beginning April 1, HardCORE™ annual memberships for LightWave v9 owners will increase to US$495."

Sure gives the impression of a yearly subscription price just to use it - not just upgrade it.

Shemp


But this didn't clear that up?


Is HardCORE a new membership program for LightWave?

Yes, but it is not mandatory. You can still buy LightWave upgrades the way you always have in the past.

http://www.newtek.com/core/faq.php

SkidBoot
02-16-2009, 12:04 AM
OK, I have spent a bunch of time reading through these forums, trying to understand this HARDCORE subscription offer before me. At the risk of appearing not to bright, here is what it seems to me so far. Subscribe now (pay) and when the new LW Core (essentially LW10) hits the streets in Q4 2009 you get it as part of the subscription, $400 or $500 depending how quickly you sign up. Don't subscribe now and you can still pay $700 for an upgrade from LW9 to LW10 (Core), at that time, albeit $200-$300 more expensive. Yikes!

It would appear if you plan to upgrade, get in while you can! A key problem, as I see it, is that it's not clear to me just how functional or what will be in Core, how far along they are in development and whether the changes warrant me sticking with LW, as a hobbyist. Don't get me wrong. I'm a long time customer (from the Amiga days) and have appreciated what they have done over the last while. Running LW9.6 now.

OK, to make my decision a bit easier, let's assume that they release some videos that demonstrate that Core is amazing, includes all the functionality of LW9 and more, but in a sleek new interface and updated development language! I can't live without it! I rush out and buy my "subscription". Things get a bit fdelayed, but early in Q1 2010, they finally get out the finished working version, with the typical bug fixes that will follow in Q2 and Q3 2010. Again, this is not criticism, just a fact of software development it seems. We're talking brand new code here, remember. All right, so if you're still with me, my subscription likely ended when the LW10 Core finally shipped or a month after....

So I assume you all noticed that it is being suggested that i re-subscribe? Why does this sound like something that would be repeated every year? Charter members seem to keep their subscription at the reduced rate (duly noted), but why would I want to re-subscribe unless I was promised another major release update? Are they planning to do that annually now?! If NT wants to know what we think, we already have forums for that. An annual subscription is not going give me any special power or influence over their decision making and development cycles. Re-subscribe for what? Why do I want to pay for another year "subscription"? Not for free bug fixes, that's for sure! Is it because I will receive "free" access to all new upgrade releases that come out during 2010-2011? Like LW10.2, 10.3,10.5,10.6 or LW11? What if their isn't an upgrade during the yearly term? If I need a subscription to get free access to annual upgrades, it only provides value if their is an annual upgrade, LW2010, LW2011 and then LW2012, etc, etc, each year. Just what would the eventual cost of a new LW license be if this is the new upgrade pricing model!?

Why wouldn't users just wait until they put out an upgrade like they have always done? Exactly, and it seems like they are giving us the freedom to make that choice. Sounds good, but they've made the subscription cheaper than the upgrade price for a reason. While some seem thankful that they can still choose to upgrade when they want, skip versions, or opt in-out of the subscription, it seems clear to me that NT is going to make us pay dearly for making a choice other than the subscription this year and that worries me for what I can expect in the future. They have already told us it will cost at least $200 more to upgrade, if you choose not to be a subscriber. Where's the freedom of choice in that. If I'm going to remain a NT fan and customer, they need to do a better job explaining what this pricing model is really going to look like out into the future, cuz I have only until April Fool's to figure out what they're up to. What happens when I skip an upgrade or two and then want to go shell out some coin to be up-to-date. How will the folks who have been shelling out the "subscription" fee at $400 for the past 3 years feel, when I get my upgrade for less than half that price? Not cool.

So here's the deal, I'm not going to be shelling out $1200 in three years to catch up to the rest of you. So.... that's why understanding what NT is up to is important to me. The problem is that I can't tell from anything I've read, what their new pricing model really is, cuz' I need to decide if I'm in or out.

Again, this is not a rant. For those of you in the big 3D production houses or making a living off your craft, a lot of my jabbering is moot. For a hobbyist, paying $395US ($500CDN) or more each year so I can avoid the costs associated with any new updates released during the year would just be too rich for my wallet.

LW has been the stepping stone for a lot of little guys into the big leagues.... I'm just concerned that this might be over. Here's hoping it's not. :(

P.S. All the above, is based on my assumption that LW9 will be the last of the current development cycle and Core will become the new LW10 or replace it. Put another way, there will be no LW10 and LW Core running side by side in the future.

Here's how I look at it: for taking your valuable time to help with the development of Core by squashing bugs and suggesting features, you get a $300 discount, or $200 discount after March 31, off the new standard upgrade price of $695. If you want to continue this upgrade schedule, you can; assuming this is not a one-time deal. I know it was shown on the Core site that Charter members get the $395 upgrade price after a year so it may be a new option for everyone. Point releases are free as usual from my understanding. Continuing the membership, in my opinion, continues to give you the deep discount while supplying Newtek with a more regular yearly revenue for development. Or you can wait until Core is released and pay $695.

As far as the yearly $395 membership renewal, it comes out to $7.60 a week; hardly a bank-breaker. Set $8 aside every week, and your golden. You'll never miss it, but you'll have it every year for the renewal.

It does require the user to put faith in Newtek to produce a good build, but that's why you are part of the test team: to help make the software what you want.

Again, this is my opinion so............ it's just my opinion.:D

Oh, and Core IS Lightwave 10.

GCL
02-16-2009, 06:32 AM
Just a hobbyist from the Lw 5+ era to 9.6.
I'll be stopping at 9.6.
As I see it over the years my general impression about this matter so far, due to changes in the economy and the going trend of companies are yearly subscription model.

Just look at Best Buy ads,etc. and 3D program companies, softwares are based on yearly subscription. Additionally, some prices are going way up.
Lots of good stuff found in LW (plug-ins) but some are not completely developed or buggy to be truly effective. Essentially it's buying on faith. What's promised may or may not be there in the end and if it is it may be buggy and if you wait long enough it may be fixed but maybe in the next version for a price. Or it's going to be there (feature(s)) but having a problem with it having to wait.

Like the Core pre-promotion blitz via email and website buildup. Getting everyone excited about it then producing a less than stellar introduction/production for a new product (as per users comments). The experience and tools are there at NT and should be second nature.

This is NOT a rant about how bad NT is but rather a general observation over the years reading NT's forums and NT's product product announcements. I have numerous full version plug-ins (Messiah, SAS, etc.) and without the "lite" versions, I would have not been able to try it before you buy it.
Unless there's a major development in LW or a sweetheart offer, I'll pass and wish the VERY BEST to NT and it's future.