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robertn2k
02-09-2009, 12:42 PM
Do we have word on educational pricing yet. I've got budget meetings coming up and I need answers. We've been with Newtek since the beginning but I need to know if the next gen of LW is in our future.

Anyone else waiting on this information?

cresshead
02-09-2009, 12:47 PM
id' say trhe edu pricing will be announced once the final app is available, which if they are on target will be around december 2009

FAQ > apps are ususallly not availabe for edu whilst on beta

Wickster
02-09-2009, 12:50 PM
A good idea would be to call NewTek reps and ask if purchasing EDU versions of LW 9.6 now would qualify you for a free update to LWCore later on. Because I believe purchasing a commercial license of LW 9.6 now qualifies you to a one year HardCore membership.

LAV
02-09-2009, 12:51 PM
I made the question with a mail, sent to NT few days ago. They answered me that's not a 'educational licence', for now. Nor a class net price.
I own two edu licences (7,5 up to 8.5 and 8.5 up to 9.6) and I hope my high school will have the core's one, too.

Dexter2999
02-09-2009, 12:51 PM
Cress- Yeah, Q4 is October, November, and December.

Which is why I can't pre-order at work. The fiscal year ends October 1st. So I have to upgrade out of next years budget, which means paying full price.

Wickster
02-09-2009, 12:58 PM
I own two edu licences (7,5 up to 8.5 and 8.5 up to 9.6) and I hope my high school will have the core's one, too.
3D in high school? what the heck!? When i was in high school my art and media class consists of how many different types of stippling we can do to draw a picture. lol.

LAV
02-09-2009, 01:18 PM
3D in high school? what the heck!? When i was in high school my art and media class consists of how many different types of stippling we can do to draw a picture. lol.

hihi! there's a great difference between the American or English (I suppose) high schools and our italian 'Liceo'. We have primary cycle for children 3 up to 10 years old. The first step of secondary school is 11-14. And the liceo runs from 15 up to 19.
Other than this, my school is an Artistic Liceo, where boys use Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign and (in a sperimental way) Lightwave.
I teach Lightwave basics, too.

caesar
02-09-2009, 03:15 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=830207#post830207

No edu for now, just the hardcore subscription

jasonwestmas
02-09-2009, 03:24 PM
3D in high school? what the heck!? When i was in high school my art and media class consists of how many different types of stippling we can do to draw a picture. lol.

In 1993 I was taking art in Highschool. We had this really weird painting program that looked like a piece of garbage, no tablet or anything, just a mouse. I don't even know what kind of OS the thing was on. So needless to say I stuck to oil paint till 1999 and started messing with Zbrush.

jasonwestmas
02-09-2009, 03:26 PM
http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?p=830207#post830207

No edu for now, just the hardcore subscription

$495 sounds like an educational price to me.:hey:

virtualcomposer
02-09-2009, 03:27 PM
A good idea would be to call NewTek reps and ask if purchasing EDU versions of LW 9.6 now would qualify you for a free update to LWCore later on. Because I believe purchasing a commercial license of LW 9.6 now qualifies you to a one year HardCore membership.

It does? That would get me hooked. :D

robertn2k
02-09-2009, 10:34 PM
Well....that's two bad. If Newtek waits till Q4 release to offer edu pricing they won't have an educational market left. My budget has been cut four times since the beginning of this academic fiscal year (July 08) and I have more cuts on the way. I'm planning my budget for the rest of the academic year right now and in May I'll be making budgets for Fiscal 09/10. We have faculty and staff being laid off. I know many of the Universities, Colleges, and High Schools I communicate with on a daily basis are in the same boat. Not offering a discount to allow the education market to join in the hardcore process is cutting of your nose to spite your face. For every educational institution in this country that teaches or even mentions Lightwave to their students there are 10 offering multiple course offerings on Autodesk products. I have other vendors offering and in some cases begging us to add their software to our mix so for Newtek to ignore us is a major slap in the face that I must admit I never thought would happen. I have 30+ seats of LW and while core does not invalidate those copies of 9.6 we certainly have no intention of sticking with a product with no future especially when other vendors are offering alternatives some of which are free. I'm not asking for free from Newtek just apply the current discounts you already offer for LW to Hardcore membership. Why exclude us from the process.

Very sad day for me.

GandB
02-09-2009, 10:38 PM
I've heard of AD giving out free copies to University just to get their foot in the door. I would think LW/NT would want that kind of coverage. But from what I've seen in the past and what I'm hearing now...that's not so. Maybe NT has enough development money already....;)

robertn2k
02-09-2009, 10:48 PM
Maybe you're right! I do understand the economics I really do. I get that Newtek is not Autodesk or Adobe with their resources or market share, but again, I'm not asking for free. If your educational discount is 40 or 50 or 60% then apply that same percentage to the hardcore program.

LAV
02-10-2009, 03:28 AM
$495 sounds like an educational price to me.:hey:

Yes, it is. With no limitation the edu version has.
The problem should consist in a burocratic issue. Maybe the educational organization couldn't buy a professional product.
This is not my case... but it could be.

Chrizto
02-10-2009, 03:41 AM
I think NT is making a mistake in excluding educational license users from accessing Core.
What would be the downside?
Students are using non-commercial licenses, and a beta product should not be used for professional work in the first place, so there is some ambiguity involved here IMHO. :thumbsdow

I've heard that those purchasing LW 9.6 EDU now, gets access to the 395$ deal, but, I'm not sure...

AbnRanger
02-10-2009, 09:45 AM
Well....that's two bad. If Newtek waits till Q4 release to offer edu pricing they won't have an educational market left. My budget has been cut four times since the beginning of this academic fiscal year (July 08) and I have more cuts on the way. I'm planning my budget for the rest of the academic year right now and in May I'll be making budgets for Fiscal 09/10. We have faculty and staff being laid off. I know many of the Universities, Colleges, and High Schools I communicate with on a daily basis are in the same boat. Not offering a discount to allow the education market to join in the hardcore process is cutting of your nose to spite your face. For every educational institution in this country that teaches or even mentions Lightwave to their students there are 10 offering multiple course offerings on Autodesk products. I have other vendors offering and in some cases begging us to add their software to our mix so for Newtek to ignore us is a major slap in the face that I must admit I never thought would happen. I have 30+ seats of LW and while core does not invalidate those copies of 9.6 we certainly have no intention of sticking with a product with no future especially when other vendors are offering alternatives some of which are free. I'm not asking for free from Newtek just apply the current discounts you already offer for LW to Hardcore membership. Why exclude us from the process.

Very sad day for me.

Why would you be teaching a BETA (unfinished) product?

GandB
02-10-2009, 10:10 AM
I don't think it's about teaching a Beta, it's about saving $100 a seat. As he said in his post that you read; his school is making cuts (like everyone else here), so every penny counts. He has a valid point that is being overlooked/ignored.

LAV
02-10-2009, 10:21 AM
Why would you be teaching a BETA (unfinished) product?

It's not the point.
On the other side, why would a pro be a BETA (unfinished) product tester?
I know many pros who never got involved in a Beta cycle. They, simply, have no time.
The point is: are the educators customers of NT as the hobbists and the pros are???

In my mind, anyway, the price of this part of the game is low as the edu versions are before. So that's not the problem.
My problem is how can I say to my boss: give me the money to buy a (very) experimental product. In Italy, on the other side, governament is cutting funds to public schools (where I work). With a golden axe, but an axe with a really cutting edge.

Myagi
02-10-2009, 10:34 AM
I don't think he's asking for an EDU discount on HardCORE (thus betas), I think he's asking for confirmation on EDU discount on the final Core version, because he needs to make the budget that spans Q4 now. ?

robertn2k
02-10-2009, 02:04 PM
Having ranted and vented on this subject now for a few days I do feel an apology is in order to both Newtek and many of my fellow forum mates. Three rants in 20 years means Iím a pretty even tempered guy and allowing myself to get so worked up about this issue without giving Newtek a fair opportunity to respond is not fair play. As I mentioned in a reply to another post, I can't ever recall Newtek screwing me over as a customer. They have always done the right thing and played fair when other companies I deal with would not even acknowledge an issue existed. I should have taken a deep breath and given Newtek a chance to respond. As they say patience is virtue and regretfully as I watch friends and co-workers getting laid off and programs being cut its something I don't have much of these days......patience.

I can't speak for the rest of the country or the world but In Florida Education seems to be the new whipping boy for our elected officials. Every new round of cuts seem to start with our budgets before trickling down the food chain. $400 is a lot of money when you have under 4k to get through the rest of your budget cycle.

I think it's appropriate for those of us charged with teaching the next generation of potential Newtek customers to be able to participate in the Hardcore program that is going to help shape the application over the next year. If Newtek is going to consider or offer a discount to educators that will enable us to participate in the program then I need that information for my budget process ASAP. I want to participate in the process and champion that cause with those controlling my budgets. By the way, students can be very effective Beta testers, with supervision, as they often do unexpected things with software that a Pro would never think of doing. Granted many of those things are accidental but the resulting crash is still the same ;>)

regards

beverins
02-10-2009, 02:33 PM
I've heard of AD giving out free copies to University just to get their foot in the door. I would think LW/NT would want that kind of coverage. But from what I've seen in the past and what I'm hearing now...that's not so. Maybe NT has enough development money already....;)

My University has unlimited Free Maya Unlimited, Motionbuilder, 3DSMax and Imagemodeler. I'm fighting tooth and nail to keep Lightwave on the curriculum. I'm not asking Newtek to give me free copies (though it would be nice)

Newtek's EDU policy with the beta seems to indicate they don't give much care to the EDU market at all. I even had my Academic reps give Newtek a call, and they replied that they don't have EDU pricing yet.

I want to test the HardCore Beta here with the students alongside 9.6. It will be a very good learning experience. I cannot afford to pay $395 for 30 seats each. I guess 30 seats is small potatoes to Newtek, I dunno.

Andyjaggy
02-10-2009, 02:37 PM
That's too bad. It would be a great opportunity for Newtek to have young budding 3D artists using LW. Once they learn another program their chances of switching are next to nill.

beverins
02-10-2009, 02:39 PM
To get an idea for the pricing, for the 9.x series it was $795 for a 5-seat lab pack, so that's $159 per seat. I paid about $4,770 for 30 seats.

At $395 a seat, that's $11,850 for 30 seats.

My budget is $5,000.

Guess what I can't give my students.

Jim Plant
02-10-2009, 02:50 PM
We WILL have an educational discount for HardCORE membership. We just haven't had time to figure out what it is yet. Stay tuned.

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.

SBowie
02-10-2009, 02:50 PM
I should have taken a deep breath and given Newtek a chance to respond.Classy. :thumbsup:

robertn2k
02-10-2009, 02:57 PM
Faced with so many budget issues I find myself on the defensive all the time these days and I don't like feeling that way. I think Newtek is going to do the right thing. It would have been nice if they could have had all this worked out from day one but in retrospect I don't think they were ignoring us and that was a poor choice of words on my part :foreheads

I have no idea when all this is going to officially kick off for those who have joined the Hardcore team. My hope is that Newtek will have something worked out for educators and students before the price jump April 1st. So I'm changing tacts from Doom and Gloom to cautious optimism. :)

bobakabob
02-10-2009, 03:00 PM
We WILL have an educational discount for HardCORE membership. We just haven't had time to figure out what it is yet. Stay tuned.

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.

Excellent news. Jim, I hope this will be genuinely competitive. I've seen LW passed over one too many times for C4D and Max in colleges here in the UK. You have some educational advocates here who can see the benefits willing to fight your corner.

beverins
02-10-2009, 03:04 PM
Excellent! I shall be on the lookout for it then!

LAV
02-11-2009, 07:02 AM
We WILL have an educational discount for HardCORE membership. We just haven't had time to figure out what it is yet. Stay tuned.


sweet news...
Many thanks

AbnRanger
02-11-2009, 11:12 AM
We WILL have an educational discount for HardCORE membership. We just haven't had time to figure out what it is yet. Stay tuned.

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.Probably the most sensible thing is to follow the exact same model for commercial...
If you buy a seat of LW 9.x NOW (until Mar 31), you get a 1yr HardCORE membership as well.

So anyone who buys an EDU license NOW (until Mar 31)...well you can take it from there.