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Ivan D. Young
02-07-2009, 04:58 PM
OK, I have not been a Linux user yet, But I would not hesitate to use it for extra machines that I would use LW on or a renderer on. Besides with bigger and bigger CPU's coming soon it might be cheaper and easier to setup a Linux machine than Windows server. So there you have it, which Linux and Why? I would also throw in, which Linux supports the most CPU cores, that may not be a valid question but you get the idea?

It is all about options, if Newtek is going to give me options, I would be crazy to not look at what might be a good thing. So no fanboy Hating in this one. Just Linux Talk, save the OS fight for another thread!:thumbsup:

Mr Big
02-07-2009, 05:59 PM
We need a linux thread in the core forum, all I have gathered so far from the Qt website
is that linux needs Linux/x11. Here's a link

http://www.qtsoftware.com/downloads/opensource/appdev/linux-x11-cpp

If you can make it work, its well worth the effort. I was pricing Intel I7s today.

Hopper
02-07-2009, 06:01 PM
Since they probably haven't tested a whole lot of CORE software on a bunch of the most recent flavors of Linux (just a guess), I would imagine their target will be the most popular ones (i.e. Redhat, Ubuntu, SuSe etc...). Once they begin to see stability from the test/QA dept I would imagine they will announce a compatability list.

I've tried all kinds of flavors of freeware Unix all the way back to the early 90's (Slackware) and they all have their issues for both ease of use and hardware compatability, so I would play around and find the ones you like best from an administrative perspective, that is if you are looking to create a cheaper render farm solution.

I think a good question to NewTek would be whether or not they are going to support their "GPU enabled" functions within the Linux environment. And since we don't really know what that means yet, the question may be completely moot.


We need a linux thread in the core forum, all I have gathered so far from the Qt website
is that linux needs Linux/x11.
I think that would pretty much include all versions of Linux at this point, since it is still the standard X windowing system for all flavors of Linux. You will just need to make sure you include it during the install, since it is an optional component.

lordtangent
02-07-2009, 06:35 PM
Uh oh... You are gonna start a "Distro War" here man!

To start educating people who aren't very familar with the Linux universe I'm going to start at the beginning.

"Linux" isn't an operating system, it's a kernel. The Kernel is what supports the hardware, (CPUS, RAM, I/O devices, etc.) My point is that just about any "Distro" of "Linux" can support as many CPUs/cores and RAM as you need if it has the right kernel is installed. All major Distros ship with an SMP kernel these days. It's also quite easy to multi-boot from a choice of multiple kernels for the purposes of testing or special temporary needs. If you know what you are doing, you can even compile your own custom kernel with tweaks to make it better for your particular needs. (For example, better VM, or lower latency for real-time and sound applications, exotic hardware drivers, etc.)

I'm typing this post on a Dual Quad core with 8 gigs of memory running 64 bit Linux BTW. Is 8 cores and 8 gigs of memory adequate for your needs?

It's good that you recognize there is more than one "Distro" of GNU/Linux. (This is what I'm guessing you mean by "version" of Linux.) They are all pretty much the same... and... not the same. Mostly it has to differences in details of how they boot up, where certain optional files are kept, and the versions of core tools and libraries they ship with. (The "Operating System" part of the system, usually based on the GNU tools , x.org and one of the desktop environments like KDE or Gnome.)

What many commercial software vendors usually do is pick one or two of the popular commercially supported Linux Distros as their "officially supported" Distro. In North America that means Red Hat. There are two notable Red Hat compatible 100% free Distros: "Centos" and "Fedora" the first being basically a re-compile of whatever the latest version of RH is with all the branding stripped out and the second being a more bleeding edge community supported distro that follows "Red Hat-like" design philosophy.

That does not mean picking a commercial distro is the best thing to do. Remember how I mentioned all Distros are very similar in many ways? Instead of supporting the COMMERCIAL distros preferentially, why not support the "FREE" distros preferentially ? They are all based on the same free software anyway!

Personally, what I would like to see is Newtek support Ubuntu as their primary "supported" Distro. Why? Because Ubuntu is STABLE (their development/roll-out process is pretty conservative) and very easy for newbies to install and maintain. It is also free as in gratis, freedom, etc... yet commercial support is available for those who want to pay for it. It's the best of all worlds.

Another good option might be Fedora. The only problem is it does not have commercial support available. (only community support) If you want commercial support you buy Red Hat.

Basically, I want to see Newtek favor the mature and stable Free Distros. I like the way the eco-sytem of the free software functions more in the free distros. In the case of Ubuntu, it is insanely easy to do upgrades and install new stuff from the free repositories

OK, having said all that, in most cases it would not matter what Distro you used as long as it had new enough graphics drivers and "glib-c" (the main runtime library). If Newtek provided a simple installer script to install Core on platforms that are not officially supported, people who were brave enough (or just know what they are doing) could install it and get it working without too many problems on their Distro of choice. This would be a really good way to support the "edge cases" without totally shutting them out (Say, a company that desired to build a reder farm based on a highly tweaked version of Gentoo or some other special case)

Hopper
02-07-2009, 06:56 PM
Excellent post Lordtangent.

One other thing I would like to mention is that unlike Windows and MacOS, the Linux versions of most commercial software venders don't simply support "the OS version", they will usually support it's "kernel versions" because of the core files and libraries as Lordtangent pointed out. So you will more than likely have to be a bit more careful when blindly updating your kernel simply because it's available. You can find a million threads in the billion or so GNU/Linux forums about "I updated my kernel and 'SoftwareX' stopped working". Just something to think about.

But if you have a stable kernel version that LWX runs on and use it for the sole purpose of rendering, etc... then simply following the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality will probably bring you great joy and a huge ROI for network rendering.

Ivan D. Young
02-07-2009, 07:08 PM
ON the core front, Intel is getting ready to release info on the Octo-cores. They are of course 8 cores and multi threaded, so that is 16 cores running. On a dual socket MB, you get 32 cores. I do not think that most flavors of Windows supports that many cores. I think that Windows support 16 cores at the current time, could be wrong. So your only solution is to go Server. If Linux supports 16 or more cores then that would be the way to go.

I have heard quite a bit about Ubuntu and in the back of my mind I was thinking Ubuntu. With no pracical experience, I am looking for some input.

The GPU aware thing, yeah since we have no idea what that means at this point who knows? I know that OpenCL has some GPU functionality and that will be in Linux I am sure. So if Core is super cutting edge, maybe OpenCL was where they were going, don't know?
It sounds like Core will be able to support OpenCL, so this might just be a time factor for support. I can't see going down the Nvidia/Ati road where you have to support competitng formats all the time.

hey like I said I am looking for options, I am already contemplating formating an old PC to try Linux on.:thumbsup:

Great Post LordTangent, I saw your greeting post, and I am glad to see some "Old Dogs" back and we welcome your contributions.

billndp
02-07-2009, 07:34 PM
can anyone point me to where exactly newtek says linux will be a supported platform for Core?
Hopefully it is as I would upgrade my 8.x license.

Hopper
02-07-2009, 07:39 PM
www.newtek.com/core/techfaq.php

Search -> "Linux"

You will find it under "Extensibility".

Cheers.

billndp
02-07-2009, 07:43 PM
I saw that, but that could easily be talk of linux rendernode return with plugin support

Hopper
02-07-2009, 07:48 PM
It will support Linux.

You could always call NewTek on Monday to verify.

Keep in mind - there are no plug-ins for the native rendering system, so the statement itself lends itself to be self explanatory.

rcr62
02-07-2009, 08:37 PM
ON the core front, Intel is getting ready to release info on the Octo-cores. They are of course 8 cores and multi threaded, so that is 16 cores running. On a dual socket MB, you get 32 cores. I do not think that most flavors of Windows supports that many cores. I think that Windows support 16 cores at the current time, could be wrong. So your only solution is to go Server. If Linux supports 16 or more cores then that would be the way to go.

If I am remembering correctly, windows does not have a limit on Cores or Multi-threads. What it does have a limit on is the number of physical CPUS (2 max). This was for windows xp Pro, not sure on vista.

don_culbertson
02-07-2009, 10:57 PM
can anyone point me to where exactly newtek says linux will be a supported platform for Core?
Hopefully it is as I would upgrade my 8.x license.

From: http://www.newtek.com/core/ (http://www.newtek.com/core/)

"LightWave CORE™ is multi-platform. LightWave CORE™ operates under all modern Windows flavors, from XP to 7, from 32 to 64. LightWave CORE™ is also a Macintosh COCOA application, and last, but certainly not least, Linux."

Don

Dexter2999
02-07-2009, 11:11 PM
::doh::

C-mon
02-07-2009, 11:42 PM
From core press release:
It will be available on Windows, Macintosh OS X and Linux.

http://www.newtek.com/news/pressrelease.php?viewpr=97

MarlonPerez
02-08-2009, 12:21 AM
Back to the original topic. I've personally used Fedora Core Linux in production and it works very well. Easy to pick up for Windows or Mac users and you're not confronted with the console window when you log on. Has plenty of very awesome open source programs and very wide range of support.

At home I've used Ubuntu for even more ease of use and pretty much easy, friendly form of help with the huge community using Ubuntu. The forums are very helpful and there are tons of tutorials for getting used to the everyday functions of the OS.

Also almost any version of Linux is so stable and reliable that I'm pretty sure either one will provide a good stable platform for LW Core.

LAV
02-08-2009, 05:54 AM
Uh oh... You are gonna start a "Distro War" here man!
[...]
Personally, what I would like to see is Newtek support Ubuntu as their primary "supported" Distro. Why? Because Ubuntu is STABLE (their development/roll-out process is pretty conservative) and very easy for newbies to install and maintain. It is also free as in gratis, freedom, etc... yet commercial support is available for those who want to pay for it. It's the best of all worlds.

[...]

I'm not a newbie in the OS field. But just yesterday I installed Ubuntu 8.10 64bit in my workstation, in a dual boot environment. And I feel astonished.
It's astounding!
Easy to install. Easy to configurate.
Easy (EASY!!!) in the mounting NTFS partitions process.
EASY!!!! in the new software installation process (wine, I tried)
Eagerly faster than Win XP (on the other side of the machine).
It recognizes the existing win local network and let you use it.
You can launch Lightwave via wine and it works fine (as it seems, of course) even if in discovery mode. Hope we can find a way to make the dongle working in Linux.

Just one issue, in my opinion: the user friendly approach is more deep than windows' one. I left Linux, many years ago, when it was an OS for Gurus.
I'm not a Guru...
But I studied to Guruize myself... :D

Ivan D. Young
02-08-2009, 08:53 AM
Whatup Marlon, I hope everything is going well for you in LALA. so it looks like Fedora and Ubuntu are definately two early candidates. this is good. let's keep up the Linux stuff, this is excititng.

pluMmet
02-08-2009, 09:01 AM
I've wanted to switch to Linux for years.

I'd like to use Ubuntu....however about 2 years ago I tried to install as a dual boot and it did not work due to me having a Raid0 configuration.

Has that changed?

TheRetiredSailo
02-08-2009, 09:02 AM
To the origional poster, you may find that people are passionate about their preferred distribution of Linux. Here's my input.

I am a Novell NetWare administrator (but NOT a Novell employee) by trade so I naturally took a look at SUSE linux. Novell bought SUSE some years ago and have used it in their commercial products. The commercial products are Open Enterprise Server (a replacement for NetWare as a Network Operating System), SUSE Linux Enterprise Server (SLES) and SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED). SLED is quite affordable and uses the subscription basis for upgrades and support. There is an open source and community supported version called openSUSE which is a free download.

Both feature a centralized management tool for installing software, making system changes and keeping the software up to date.

I don't know if SUSE will be a good fit for CORE, but it has my vote for a linux distro. The bottom line is that Novell offers a trial download (including update downloads for the trial period) and openSUSE is a free download. Other than your time, it doesn't cost you anything to give it a try. In my case the Novell supported version (SLED) was reasonably priced and came with the same support structure that I have used and counted on for NetWare servers at the office. In was a good fit for me, individual mileage may vary.

openSUSE (http://en.opensuse.org/Welcome_to_openSUSE.org)


Novell Enterprise Linux (http://www.novell.com/linux/)

Edited to fix a typo.

Titus
02-08-2009, 09:06 AM
I know some big animation studios use Gentoo, Fedora or Suse.

jackany
02-08-2009, 03:42 PM
I know some big animation studios use Gentoo, Fedora or Suse.

Well, IMHO, Gentoo is not the kind of horse, a beginner should consider. Not if you have anything else to do... ;D

Don't get me wrong. It's a nice distro with an even nicer community, if you want to dive into Linux knowledge deeply.

Part of my freelance activity consists of system administration, so I got used to various penguins, even BSD devils :devil:

In the end it is all personal preference. Which tool fits best. I totally agree with lordtangent.
The best thing is, you can try most of them without paying anything. And every distro has it's own helpful community. That's my experience.

Hopper
02-08-2009, 04:18 PM
I am a Novell NetWare administrator
Holy crap... that stuff is still around? They really spanked everyone with their NDIS design, but after that ... they kind of disappeared off the face of the planet.

TheRetiredSailo
02-08-2009, 06:08 PM
Holy crap... that stuff is still around? They really spanked everyone with their NDIS design, but after that ... they kind of disappeared off the face of the planet.

LOL, a few of us are still hanging on but I'm afraid that the days are numbered. Novell hasn't always had the best marketing out there (coughs at the understatement) and now that Novell is all about linux I'm afraid that there will never be a NetWare v. 7.

Oh well, that's progress for you...

Hopper
02-08-2009, 07:04 PM
LOL, a few of us are still hanging on but I'm afraid that the days are numbered. Novell hasn't always had the best marketing out there (coughs at the understatement) and now that Novell is all about linux I'm afraid that there will never be a NetWare v. 7.

Oh well, that's progress for you...
Well it definately had its day. If you were either a CNE, CNI, or had that little stack of red books memorized, you'd never be out of a job.

I remember installing Novel ELS II on an ARCNet network back in the day. Oh what fun that was... It was pretty high tech stuff at the time. My fondest memories were of Z-comping drives for two days and that damn "Unicode" diskette that for some reason loaded for like 2 hours.. lol .. You never knew whether it was actually working or the diskette was stuck.

Good times... good times... :thumbsup:

lordtangent
02-09-2009, 05:58 PM
Yeah, Gentoo is certainly an interesting distro. It has very novel boot script system that makes it the fastest booting Linux out there. But it is distributed as source only. (They do provide a bare-bones binary "tarball" you can use to get a basic install started. But that is is.) Gentoo would be good for building a VERY specific setup like super lean headless render nodes or something. But otherwise it's probably too much of a hassle for most places to maintain. (and this is coming from a fan of Gentoo! It really isn't the best choice for most people. ) Better to go with a binary based distro that is all tested and ready to install.

I've used both Red Hat and Centos at major studios. I know first hand from my spies at Disney they use Fedora there. ;-)

As others have stated, any relatively major distro is gonna work well.

don_culbertson
02-10-2009, 01:14 PM
From the Ubuntu Studio site:http://ubuntustudio.org/home

Ubuntu Studio. A multimedia creation flavor of Ubuntu.

Ubuntu Studio is aimed at the GNU/Linux audio, video and graphic enthusiast as well as professional.

We provide a suite of the best open-source applications available for multimedia creation. Completely free to use, modify and redistribute. Your only limitation is your imagination.

I've been wanting to try this, but have to find a partition that I can stick it on.

[edit] I know you could just add the specific apps to a regular installation of Ubuntu, but I find the "total package concept" interesting.

WhereMyArm
02-10-2009, 01:39 PM
You know Ivan I've actually been thinking about the same thing since I heard Core supports Linux. I don't use it right now, but I've installed Ubuntu before on a few machines for my family, mainly because once you get it up and running (despite any pain in the *** drivers you may have to look for to support weird video cards) it's pretty stable and doesn't require any maintenance for them, and it's pretty easy to use.

I'll probably be installing Ubuntu in the near future as a dual boot on my main system, since I have a little experience with it, know it's the most popular distro and because of that has lots of documentation and community support. But if you still want to check out more distros here's a site I found interesting when I was first researching linux: http://distrowatch.com/

pluMmet
02-10-2009, 01:59 PM
Well I have installed Ubuntu Desktop using the "install from within Windows" method (called Ubuntu Wubi.)

It's Great!

I'm Lovin' every second of it. :hey:

lordtangent
02-10-2009, 02:37 PM
I'm seeing a lot of love for Ubuntu which is great! I encourage people who are interested in Linux to experiment and try out the various distros... (starting with Ubuntu). As I initially stated, it is certainly my personal preference and I'd like to see it officially supported by NT. If enough LW users "vote" for Ubuntu with their usage of it the chances of it being officially supported are higher.

Red_Oddity
02-10-2009, 02:52 PM
I like Linux a lot aswell, but i doubt many 'new' users will switch over that easily.
So far most installs i have done crap out because X11 doesn't recognise the card (most Quadros and intel cards), and VESA with those cards often doesn't work aswell (not to mention multi monitor support.)
Where i'm going with this is, the moment the pretty GUI installer craps out and code has to be entered (or shudder, you have to compile an image viewer/editor yourself just to get EXR support) most new users will go 'okay, screw this, back to windows'

It does take getting used to, after a couple of installs of various distros though you will pretty much know what to do, how to use vi, how to fix the x11 config, what and how user and group permissions work and the influence they have on the access to your own system drive, etc. But i doubt many users will persevere long enough to get to that point.

But, linux Lightwave, sure, i'd sure give it a whirl (especially since it uses Qt, it looks the same as on any platform.)

pluMmet
02-10-2009, 03:00 PM
I like Linux a lot aswell, but i doubt many 'new' users will switch over that easily.
So far most installs i have done crap out because X11 doesn't recognise the card (most Quadros and intel cards), and VESA with those cards often doesn't work aswell (not to mention multi monitor support.)


Well ATM I have dual monitor going on my Unbutu w/8800gtx. I don't know why your Quadro won't work?

Also...you have an Intel graphics card?

DiscreetFX
02-10-2009, 03:14 PM
Linux is gaining market share and it's a nice solution for 3D Apps. Healthy competition between distros is also driving it and making it a better & better operating system.

paulhart
02-10-2009, 04:23 PM
I have UbuntuStudio64 as a dual boot option on my station, installed fairly easily on a new partition on the same drive. I put on the full "Studio" of apps and have upgraded my Blender64 already, works great, uses all 8GB of RAM. I had more difficulty on another station which has a finicky server board. I will try again, putting it on a separate small drive, instead of trying to partition the main drive as server boards are way picky on their configuration. I am very convinced of the potential of Linux, particularly the Ubuntu distro. I went for the complete install, rather than the Wubi version, to get the full performance value. Hope the Lightwave gives it full support
Paul

MooseDog
02-10-2009, 04:27 PM
...I am very convinced of the potential of Linux, particularly the Ubuntu distro. I went for the complete install, rather than the Wubi version, to get the full performance value. Hope the Lightwave gives it full support
Paul

exact sentiments here too :thumbsup:.

all that's needed now is an emoticon of a penguin :D to go with :lwicon:

pluMmet
02-10-2009, 04:28 PM
I went for the complete install, rather than the Wubi version, to get the full performance value. Hope the Lightwave gives it full support
Paul

I'm glad you went with Unbutu.

AFAIK the only downside to the Wubi install from within Windows is it can't hibernate and hangs on reset. Powers down fine though.

Other then that there is no performance hit at all.

TheRetiredSailo
02-10-2009, 06:18 PM
For those looking at shopping around and trying a few linux distros I would suggest using VMware as a test platform. For those who are not familiar, VMware will allow you to use the host PC's resources to simulate a PC. The hard drive for the virtual machine (or VM) is actually a set of files on your actual hard drive. The nice thing about this is that you don't have to add a hard drive, setup dual boot or find an extra PC in order to try something out. Instead, you can start up VMware, tell it to create a new VM and install the OS.

VMware server is a free download and VMware Workstation will run you most of $200 (US).

Keep in mind that I suggest this for trying out linux distros to find the one you like. The video performance and capability is limited compared to what we are used to for LW capable video cards.

The web site for VMware is here. (http://www.vmware.com/)

Red_Oddity
02-11-2009, 06:43 AM
Well ATM I have dual monitor going on my Unbutu w/8800gtx. I don't know why your Quadro won't work?

Also...you have an Intel graphics card?

Older Quadro cards had this problem, haven't tried it anymore on those particular workstations, so my point might be moot.

Our server has an onboard intel card, why waist money on a videocard that isn't used anyway.

The problem might stem from the fact that most distros (the ones you don't pay for) use opensource drivers, rather than drivers from the vendors themselves (i believe RedHat, Mandriva and Suse use commercial drivers, but don't quote me on this though)

Still, once you have a bit of understaning on how Linux works, it gets a lot easier to handle, also, as far as i remember i reinstalled my first windows versions various times over in the first weeks because i kept screweing with it just to learn how it works (didn't we all?)

starbase1
02-11-2009, 07:01 AM
Personally there are two I think people should give a go:

Ubuntu Studio, which comes with proper multimedia tools already included (not just ***ing Gimp!). Audio is particularly strong. One of my machines is triple boot XP, XP 64 and Ubuntu Studio 64.

The other is Linux Mint, and Ubuntu derivative which comes with all the media codec, (MP3, DVD) already in there, which many distros leave out for philosophical reasons.

And for those reaslly new to this, I suggest you look for a 'Wubi' install, which will bung it in EXACTLY like you would a windows application.

Do we have any clues as to how the copy protection will work under Linux?

Nick

Alliante
02-11-2009, 07:45 AM
Personally there are two I think people should give a go:

Ubuntu Studio, which comes with proper multimedia tools already included (not just ***ing Gimp!). Audio is particularly strong. One of my machines is triple boot XP, XP 64 and Ubuntu Studio 64.

The other is Linux Mint, and Ubuntu derivative which comes with all the media codec, (MP3, DVD) already in there, which many distros leave out for philosophical reasons.

And for those reaslly new to this, I suggest you look for a 'Wubi' install, which will bung it in EXACTLY like you would a windows application.

Do we have any clues as to how the copy protection will work under Linux?

Nick

It's not that difficult to get a base Ubuntu install up to Mint media codecs: just try to open an MP3 (and install the suggested codecs) and then an M4A file. Then install VLC if you're paranoid about anything else you can't play :)

Additional - @9:04am CST
Also, right now I do *NOT* recommend installing the Alpha 2 of 9.04. It's still too buggy (at least for 64 bits--32 bit might be fine) for day-to-day use and nVidia cards (compiz.real hangs on start, you can kill the process and it continues to start, but this is part of the reason I use an nVidia driver ;) ).

PulseAudio sucks. I hope it gets better in the future (why can't everyone just use OpenAL?). Xorg still slightly sucks too, but it has made leaps and bounds in the last 2 years compared to what it was.

Sorry. You caught me monologueing again. :)

Additional Additional! - @11:13am CST
Looks like there's been a bug report about my issue (which is good that others are experiencing what I had happen):
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1061919
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/326366

MooseDog
02-11-2009, 07:58 AM
...Do we have any clues as to how the copy protection will work under Linux?

Nick

that's a really! good question. i can only speculate that nt has squeezed a desktop linux compatible dongle out of rainbow/sentinel. :thumbsup: the logistics of getting it out into the users hands will probably be a bit of a hassle though. hopefully not.

a quick note for any linux newbs or explorers: anything other than nvidia graphics chips will be an quite a challenge.

still though, very very excited about this!

starbase1
02-11-2009, 09:42 AM
that's a really! good question. i can only speculate that nt has squeezed a desktop linux compatible dongle out of rainbow/sentinel. :thumbsup: the logistics of getting it out into the users hands will probably be a bit of a hassle though. hopefully not.


Not least because I am about to move away from what will probably be my last PC with a serial port, and need to upgrade my current one!

starbase1
02-11-2009, 12:23 PM
It's not that difficult to get a base Ubuntu install up to Mint media codecs: just try to open an MP3 (and install the suggested codecs) and then an M4A file. Then install VLC if you're paranoid about anything else you can't play :)


Well, true, but with Mint it works straight from booting off the live CD, even with no working internet connection. I often recommend that people keep a live CD of Mint handy, for those occasions when windows goes tits up.

Nick

lordtangent
02-11-2009, 05:30 PM
Well, true, but with Mint it works straight from booting off the live CD, even with no working internet connection. I often recommend that people keep a live CD of Mint handy, for those occasions when windows goes tits up.

Nick

Yeah! I can't tell you how many times I fixed hosed windows setups with "Live CD/DVD" distros. Knoppix is on of my favorites for that sort of thing.

Oh, which brings up an excellent point. If people want to try Linux without having to commit to installing it, most current distros allow for booting directly to a fully working environment from the CD or DVD. "Live CD or DVD" as it is known. Ubuntu and Knoppix both have the feature, as do many other distros.

tischbein3
02-11-2009, 05:39 PM
+1 ubuntu

(-1 kubuntu or any distribution wich is based on kde 4.x )

and to bring in another aspect:
set the priority rather to 64 bit support.

Ivan D. Young
02-11-2009, 08:36 PM
yeah great point about the Live Cd/DVD. I have seen that done before and it is impressive.

OK, I know that this is a total fan the flames, but here goes, which video card Generally (take this just as it sounds I know there are a bunch of Linux variants, not every circumstance can be accounted for,so I am asking in the absolutely most general sense) which video card seems to be more compatible? I mean it keep it general!!!!
Me personally I am ATI user, never ever never ever had problems, but I know others have. But for a totally insane LightWUX machine, I am willing to try any hardware.

lots
02-12-2009, 12:21 AM
If I am remembering correctly, windows does not have a limit on Cores or Multi-threads. What it does have a limit on is the number of physical CPUS (2 max). This was for windows xp Pro, not sure on vista.

Only server variants of Windows have support for more than 2 sockets. But this is fine really... since motherboards with more than two sockets tend to have pretty crap price/performance ratio, and the "law of diminishing returns" associated with it..

Anyway, back on topic, I was a big Gentoo user. Back when I worked IT, I managed Linux (Fedora, Redhat, and Ubuntu) Windows and Unix networks with hundreds of users. But I managed it all from my custom Gentoo install on the computer in my office. Not that I HAD to use Gentoo for any particular reason, but I just liked tinkering and Gentoo is all about that ;) I could have just as easily maintained the network through one of the other distros.

However recently (last couple of years) a new distro popped up on my radar, ArchLinux. This is probably my favorite distro. Its very similar to Gentoo, being a versionless system, and something you configure from the ground up, however it takes a page from Debian/Ubuntu's book and ships everything in precompiled binaries, which is great since you don't have to sit around compiling crap all day like you do in Gentoo, which can be tiersome if something doesn't compile off the bat. To me this is the perfect balance between Ubuntu and Gentoo.

For the new linux users out there, I'd highly recommend Ubuntu. It pretty much just works right out of the box. In fact, I would say that Ubuntu works out of the box without any tweaking on more systems than Windows XP does. Take my laptop for example. I have to spend a good amount of time getting Windows running on it (a day or so to hunt down all the drivers), however Ubuntu installs and is up and running with only a few clicks, and no driver hunting.

Ubuntu provides alot of GUI interfaces to system settings, so Windows users don't have to go messing around in config files all day (though, that is an option too :P). All in all I'd say that Ubuntu is just as easy to use as Windows or OSX are.

I prefer finer control, which is why I tend to stick to distros that require a bit more legwork to get up and running, but to each his own right :)

One last thing: While I'm not a fan of big DEs (Desktop Environments), like KDE or Gnome, recent times have shown that KDE is actually a fairly good performer these days. I guess for lightwave, the only thing we're really gonna have to make sure, is that we have Qt installed, I figure you might as well go with a DE that is built on top of Qt.. So why not go for KDE.

If I get Core, its giong on an Arch Linux system running FVWM :P

lots
02-12-2009, 12:27 AM
yeah great point about the Live Cd/DVD. I have seen that done before and it is impressive.

OK, I know that this is a total fan the flames, but here goes, which video card Generally (take this just as it sounds I know there are a bunch of Linux variants, not every circumstance can be accounted for,so I am asking in the absolutely most general sense) which video card seems to be more compatible? I mean it keep it general!!!!
Me personally I am ATI user, never ever never ever had problems, but I know others have. But for a totally insane LightWUX machine, I am willing to try any hardware.

Linux + Video Card = Nvidia.

Nvidia, though they release binary drivers only, have had solid Linux support for years.

Traditionally ATI hardware has been very poorly supported. However, this is changing, as ATI has opensourced some of its driver. So as more and more of it comes online, the ATI support will only get better. Additionally ATI's binary drivers have been steadily improving over the years.

I haven't tried new ATI hardware in recent years. I would recommend browsing the Ubuntu forums for a while and just see how many complaints you see from people using either hardware, and judge for your self..

DarkLight
02-12-2009, 03:33 AM
However recently (last couple of years) a new distro popped up on my radar, ArchLinux. This is probably my favorite distro. Its very similar to Gentoo, being a versionless system, and something you configure from the ground up, however it takes a page from Debian/Ubuntu's book and ships everything in precompiled binaries, which is great since you don't have to sit around compiling crap all day like you do in Gentoo, which can be tiersome if something doesn't compile off the bat. To me this is the perfect balance between Ubuntu and Gentoo.


I've just started using ArchLinux as well. I run Gentoo on my home computer and it's working great but i just bought a Netbook and tried installing Gentoo on there but the compile times were far too long. Installed ArchLinux on there instead now and it seems to be working great so far.

starbase1
02-12-2009, 05:52 AM
I've just started using ArchLinux as well. I run Gentoo on my home computer and it's working great but i just bought a Netbook and tried installing Gentoo on there but the compile times were far too long. Installed ArchLinux on there instead now and it seems to be working great so far.

Which netbook? I have Ubuntu on my eee 1000h, dual boot with XP, Ubuntu goes well on it...

DarkLight
02-12-2009, 06:10 AM
It's an Acer Aspire One. Ubuntu works fine on there, only thing that didn't work from the default install was the wireless and that was easy enough to fix. I just prefer the way that Gentoo and Archlinux work over Ubuntu

lots
02-12-2009, 09:53 PM
It's an Acer Aspire One. Ubuntu works fine on there, only thing that didn't work from the default install was the wireless and that was easy enough to fix. I just prefer the way that Gentoo and Archlinux work over Ubuntu

++

Gentoo and Arch are both versionless systems. Basically that means you can do a system update and you are automatically updated to the latest. Unlike Ubuntu, where you are tied to a series (8.04, or 7.10, for example) and updating to newer versions is often more painful.

In Arch its just 'pacman -Syu'

lordtangent
02-13-2009, 09:52 AM
ArchLinux looks interesting. But like Gentoo it looks way too "Power-User" oriented to really endorse for newbies. For experienced people it would be a great way of getting a customized system without the need to compile as much as Gentoo requires... which just for you newbies out there, I want to mention isn't actually very difficult, especially on Gentoo where the packages are built to automatically compile cleanly. In fact, compiling on most distros which support "source packages" as well as binary (which is to say... many!) is actually pretty easy because all the dependencies for the compile are figured out for you by the package system. Compiling from "source packages" is just a hassle because it takes TIME.

I think one of the pre-packaged distros like Ubuntu or Fedora Core or Centos would be the best bet for a newb who wants to get their feet wet.

doimus
02-13-2009, 02:33 PM
What excites me the most about LW on linux is the ability to install it on some lightweight disro like Puppy Linux that boots from a 256MB USB stick.
The perfect way to cheap and energy efficient render nodes!

lordtangent
02-13-2009, 08:15 PM
Good point. And you could use the USB sticks to sort of "hijack" machines at night for rendering without the need to actually install anything on them!

I've been musing with the idea of net-boot Linux render nodes since my proof-of-concept tests of LW 9 under Wine / Linux. But a NATIVE version of LW would make things so much easier.

In some ways LWSN is nice because it's stripped down to just the renderer. No extra overhead. But you know, in this day and age that "overhead" is really nothing compared to what people expect from the renderer anyway. With core it would be really interesting if they shipped a render node that was actually a full only "non-interactive-only" version of Core itself. My point is, a command line version of Core that can do everything that Core can do. Why? Well, it was always a frustration with LWSN that a lot of l-script stuff wouldn't function properly on it. If Core had a command line mode then anything you could script (which in Core is supposed to be EVERYTHING!) could be batched off to a farm for "baking" or processing. It's consistent with the direction they are going with the product and it would really help drive innovation. We'll see if NT go for something like that. If not I'd still be happy just to have unlimited nodes that are LWSN-like . (Only maybe this time around NT can make the debugging output from it better and ship a decent controller!)

TheRetiredSailo
02-13-2009, 08:30 PM
What excites me the most about LW on linux is the ability to install it on some lightweight disro like Puppy Linux that boots from a 256MB USB stick.
The perfect way to cheap and energy efficient render nodes!

I have this amusing picture in my mind of someone pulling out a little case full of USB sticks and saying something like "are there some PCs that I can borrow for my render farm?"

Ahem... guess you had to be there.

doimus
02-14-2009, 04:53 AM
Or a bedtime horror story for kids: "If you don't behave nice, the evil usb stick-man will come at night and use your eeepc as his render node!":eek:



My point is, a command line version of Core that can do everything that Core can do. Why? Well, it was always a frustration with LWSN that a lot of l-script stuff wouldn't function properly on it. If Core had a command line mode then anything you could script (which in Core is supposed to be EVERYTHING!) could be batched off to a farm for "baking" or processing.

Hey, wouldn't it be possible to use Python for exactly that purpose, now that core has integrated Python interpreter? If you can actually *model* with Python (as we have seen in core video), I guess you could use it for other, more meaningful purposes.

TheRetiredSailo
02-14-2009, 08:30 AM
I think a solid command line capability would speed up one's work flow once they learned how to use it.

As an occasional AutoCAD user, I was excited to see the command line. The command line is very handy in AutoCAD in that you can simply type in the command for the tool you want to use (i.e. line) and type in the parameters (i.e. the length of the line). In LW term, it would equate to clicking on the right menu to get the tool, hitting n for the numeric entry box and entering in the right values.

lordtangent
02-14-2009, 11:23 AM
Hey, wouldn't it be possible to use Python for exactly that purpose, now that core has integrated Python interpreter? If you can actually *model* with Python (as we have seen in core video), I guess you could use it for other, more meaningful purposes.

That's my point. If Cores equivalent of "LWSN" was fully script-able the way Core itself is, some pretty incredible things would be possible in a non-interactive "batch" sort of way. If it was possible to network "render" stuff like baking out geometry or simulations Core would be on par with other high end packages... only much more economical since pretty much every other package still charges for those types of render nodes.

Though, I actually doubt NT will make the core program batchable like that for free... (like LWSN), since it would cut into potential profit from high end users who actually need the capability and would be willing to pay for it. They are more likely to make only the actual render nodes free. (as in IMAGE rendering nodes) For users that needed a batchable version of Core NT would just sell more licenses. Perhaps they could sell the headless batch licenses for half price or something. (Which considering the price of LW, would be an fantastic bargain) Of course, my PERSONAL preference would be that all batch "network rendering" sort of licenses are free like LWSN. I just don't expect Newtek to give away software like that!

Anyway, my main point is it's important the main program have command line controls that allow it to be driven by a render queue. So even if it's just ONE argument like: "core -script my_script.py" so you can fire off core and make it run a specific python script, then exit... that would be good enough. Python could do everything INSIDE core. We just need a way to fire it off from OUTSIDE core. At that point pretty much anything is possible automation-wise. Big simulations or "bake" type jobs of various types could then be distributed on a render farm.

Mike_RB
02-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Maya:
# Red Hat® Enterprise Linux® 4.0 WS operating system (U6)
# Fedora™ 8 operating system

Houdini:
Ubuntu 7.10
Debian 3.1 and 4.0 (32 and 64-bit)
RHEL 4
Fedora Core 6

XSI:
Fedora Core 5 (Recommended Linux Distribution)

I would assume Newtek would be trying to get core into studios using Linux and these apps. Fedora being the only one common to all.

lots
02-14-2009, 02:11 PM
More important than the distro, really, is what Libs and things will Core need? Obviously NT can only test a few distros and say for sure it works on Distro X under version Y. But I hope that we get more information about the requirements for Core, so that those of us who "roll our own" (read: use no standard distros, or do LFS [linux from scratch]) know what all needs to go into our systems to make Core work, without having to sit there and figure it out :).

lordtangent
02-14-2009, 02:50 PM
I agree. Getting that kind of into from NT would be fantastic. It would open things up tremendously.

kmacphail
02-14-2009, 03:43 PM
That's my point. If Cores equivalent of "LWSN" was fully script-able the way Core itself is, some pretty incredible things would be possible in a non-interactive "batch" sort of way. If it was possible to network "render" stuff like baking out geometry or simulations Core would be on par with other high end packages... only much more economical since pretty much every other package still charges for those types of render nodes.

Though, I actually doubt NT will make the core program batchable like that for free... (like LWSN), since it would cut into potential profit from high end users who actually need the capability and would be willing to pay for it. They are more likely to make only the actual render nodes free. (as in IMAGE rendering nodes) For users that needed a batchable version of Core NT would just sell more licenses. Perhaps they could sell the headless batch licenses for half price or something. (Which considering the price of LW, would be an fantastic bargain) Of course, my PERSONAL preference would be that all batch "network rendering" sort of licenses are free like LWSN. I just don't expect Newtek to give away software like that!

This is true for a Houdini batch license, but a license of Maya includes unlimited (9999?) batch/render licenses (Maya render, not mentalray). Better yet, a batch license is a regular install of Maya running without a gui, not a separate executable. This is the model I hope NewTek adopts.



Anyway, my main point is it's important the main program have command line controls that allow it to be driven by a render queue. So even if it's just ONE argument like: "core -script my_script.py" so you can fire off core and make it run a specific python script, then exit... that would be good enough. Python could do everything INSIDE core. We just need a way to fire it off from OUTSIDE core. At that point pretty much anything is possible automation-wise. Big simulations or "bake" type jobs of various types could then be distributed on a render farm.

Exactly, this kind of functionality is huge. A portion of our farm at work is dedicated to non-render related tasks like caching and exporting, we'd be bogged down immensely if we had to do these tasks on desktops.

Cheers,

-Kevin