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Gregg "T.Rex"
02-07-2009, 11:35 AM
Well...
The original LightWave's fathers left years ago and create another child, called Modo...
NewTek kept LightWave and as a step father helped it raise and become a formidable application, up till version 9...

Now, NewTek is moving beyond, by creating a new application called LightWave Core, which as it seems so far, the only common thing with LightWave, is the name and three fundamental points that made LightWave what it is: easy of use, quality renderer and a certain type of workflow, we all used to work...

But, maybe with the exception of the renderer, the other two factors are just generalized ideas, which can be applied in numerous different ways and that lead to think that LightWave Core is not LightWave...

Of course, that doesn't matter at all, because LightWave Core will be all those things LightWave could never be, so yes; let's burn it to the ground and let it rise from it's ashes... :D
If that's the case, then i'm good with LightWave's "death"... :2guns::lwicon:

Still, there's a sad feeling in the air, isn't it... ?
Just thinking out loud, that's all... :)

Celshader
02-07-2009, 11:38 AM
Now, NewTek is moving beyond, by creating a new application called LightWave Core, which as it seems so far, the only common thing with LightWave 9, is the name and three fundamental points that made LightWave what it is: easy of use, quality renderer and a certain type of workflow, we all used to work...

Naw, LightWave has returned to us as "LightWave the White (http://tinyurl.com/au6dpw)." New form, vastly upgraded powers, and you kinda have to get to know him all over again.

;)

Gregg "T.Rex"
02-07-2009, 11:42 AM
Naw, LightWave has returned to us as "LightWave the White (http://tinyurl.com/au6dpw)." New form, vastly upgraded powers, and you kinda have to get to know him all over again.

;)

:lol: Gandalf rocks! :jam:

joseburgos
02-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Interesting view but valid.
Personally, I hope it never loses the name Lightwave but then again, I can get used to a new name as long as it does more for me :)

Man that like retiring the old and bringing in the new........

MUCUS
02-07-2009, 11:43 AM
Yes, I understand, I'm currently feeling the same thing, because I still don't know if I'll retrieve Lightwave in Core. Will I be able to find back my workflow like in Lightwave? But that kind of question could only be answered with video or with by playing with Core.

All I hope, is that every Lightwaver will fill like home with core :)

(ha!ha! Celshader, very nice comparison! )

Earl
02-07-2009, 12:05 PM
Naw, LightWave has returned to us as "LightWave the White (http://tinyurl.com/au6dpw)."
;)
See, that's the best analogy. LightWave is still LightWave - for proof, just look at how many times has NewTek mentioned that it will still be familiar. Besides, if the UI is as flexible as they've lead on to, then we should be able to revert it back to 9.x in workflow and look. Not that I would want to do that, even for a moment.

I might want to revert back to 5.x, just for old times sake!

DiscreetFX
02-07-2009, 12:09 PM
LightWave 3D will be around for at least a few more million years.

A Mejias
02-07-2009, 12:15 PM
is lightwave dead?...

...just thinking out loud, that's all... :)



no!!!


:-)

Philbert
02-07-2009, 12:32 PM
LightWave is still LightWave - for proof, just look at how many times has NewTek mentioned that it will still be familiar.

This is what I was thinking, I can't say for sure, but many of the tools may work the same way we expect them to. There will be many of the old tools like Bandsaw Pro which are unique to LW. Many of the panels may be laid out the same way. The whole concept of the numeric panel may still be there. I'm sure once we get inside and have a look around it will feel almost just like home.

Ivan D. Young
02-07-2009, 12:35 PM
As long as it had "Eagle in a Barrel" it will still be lightwave!:devil:

cresshead
02-07-2009, 12:39 PM
gotta move forward...sometimes even the very best buggy whip on earth will be replaced with a car at some point...yeah i know REALLY bad example...but ya get me yeah?

it WILL be different...that you can be sure of.

meatycheesyboy
02-07-2009, 12:45 PM
Product names have absolutely zero to do with the actual product.

Take cars as an example, every 3-4 years cars go through a minor revision then every 5-6 they get complete redesigns. When they get redesigned, virtually nothing is the same as the previous car except the name and the company that manufactures them yet people accept that it is the same car. They even use the performance, safety, and reliability of the previous car as an indicator of how the new car will perform when it has nothing to do with it at all.

Product names only exist for marketing. They don't change often becasue that would confuse and scare customers but names have nothing to do with the actual product.

Kuzey
02-07-2009, 01:35 PM
They are still going to work on it so we might end up with LW9.7 or 9.8 :hey:

What they could do is turn it into the lite version, strip the export formats to one each. Say, obj for files, QT mpg4 compressed movie for the web, Photoshop format with alpha for single images etc. and nothing else.

Oh...yes, make it free once the Core is super stable :hey:

Kuzey

grimoirecg
02-07-2009, 01:53 PM
Well, it's like a football team.
The guys who were in the team 25 years ago are all gone now and the entire team and staff and manager are all new guys, but it's still the 'same' team as far as fans are concerned.

Mike_RB
02-07-2009, 01:58 PM
It will be interesting in q4 which app 'feels' more like LW to people, modo or core. I'm not saying it's a bad or good thing, only that the new dev's of Lw may go in a direction that is different than what the crew at lux came up with originally for LW, and may have preserved in modo. I don't care either way, I'll use both if their good.... but it is an interesting question.

Earl
02-07-2009, 02:24 PM
It will be interesting in q4 which app 'feels' more like LW to people, modo or core. I'm not saying it's a bad or good thing, only that the new dev's of Lw may go in a direction that is different than what the crew at lux came up with originally for LW, and may have preserved in modo. I don't care either way, I'll use both if their good.... but it is an interesting question.
Indeed, I think the current LW team has a much different vision for LW than the original team had. I think that's what excites me most about Core. LW, while a great application, got caught up in poor workflows that just didn't make sense in some situations. These were carried down the line from the original LW. Where the old LW would force you to do things a particular way, it seems this new direction means people will be able to choose how they do things.

I think modo brought a great improvement to the old LW workflow, but from the demo's I've tried, it still lacks the flexibility a modern application should have. It's insanely capable at what it does well, yes. In the end, though, it still seems to suffer from the "one size/workflow fits all" fault the original LW had (though perhaps not to the same extreme). Luxology could very well could prove me wrong with this - but they haven't yet.

Core is aiming to prove that the old way of thinking was wrong: and as long as modo is unable to be flexible enough to display their scene data as nodes, layers, graphs, etc - all at the push of a button, then they will fall into the same trap that LW fell into a long while back.

pooby
02-07-2009, 02:24 PM
thats a very good point Mike..

*Pete*
02-07-2009, 02:27 PM
Lightwave is dead, long live Lightwave!!

but yes, this is definetly a new application, built from scratch..as long as i find my way in it, ill be fine with it......

Mike_RB
02-07-2009, 02:33 PM
I think modo brought a great improvement to the old LW workflow, but from the demo's I've tried, it still lacks the flexibility a modern application should have. It's insanely capable at what it does well, yes. In the end, though, it still seems to suffer from the "one size/workflow fits all" fault the original LW had (though perhaps not to the same extreme). Luxology could very well could prove me wrong with this - but they haven't yet.

Core is aiming to prove that the old way of thinking was wrong: and as long as modo is unable to be flexible enough to display their scene data as nodes, layers, graphs, etc - all at the push of a button, then they will fall into the same trap that LW fell into a long while back.

This is spot on. But I'm selfish, I'd rather see core turn into a technical juggernaught like houdini, poor 'artist' workflow and all if it means I can have the power. Of course I'd rather have both, the artsy side sitting on top of houdini power. Cool stuff ahead.

pluMmet
02-07-2009, 03:12 PM
Of course I'd rather have both, the artsy side sitting on top of houdini power. Cool stuff ahead.

That's EXACTLY what I'm hoping for. :hat:

That and 'Lightwave the white' :D

Lewis
02-07-2009, 04:39 PM
Of course, that doesn't matter at all, because LightWave Core will be all those things LightWave could never be, so yes; let's burn it to the ground and let it rise from it's ashes... :D
If that's the case, then i'm good with LightWave's "death"... :2guns::lwicon:

Still, there's a sad feeling in the air, isn't it... ?
Just thinking out loud, that's all... :)

Heheh cool perspective but then again we could say that this is VIDEOSCAPE CORE and that Lightwave never existed anyway - right :D :D?

rcr62
02-07-2009, 04:53 PM
Now, NewTek is moving beyond, by creating a new application called LightWave Core, which as it seems so far, the only common thing with LightWave, is the name and three fundamental points that made LightWave what it is: easy of use, quality renderer and a certain type of workflow, we all used to work...

You missed another key thing that makes Lightwave, Lightwave. The community surrounding it. I don't post a lot, but that is becuase I almost always find someone else has already asked the same question and had it answered by the great community here.

That I think will continue with Lightwave the White (love the analogy).

:beerchug:

RC

StereoMike
02-07-2009, 05:37 PM
I think this will turn out great:
Think of Softimage- they did a rewrite and went dark for years, came up with xsi and practically had to start from scratch with their business. Userbase gone, no reputation, replaced by other software. They haven't recovered up to old glory to the present day.
Newtek made a parallel changeover: They are also rewriting the software, but a big community backs them up. They won't have to start anew. If CORE can deliver what's on paper, this will be a rocket.

mike

Cageman
02-08-2009, 05:23 AM
This is spot on. But I'm selfish, I'd rather see core turn into a technical juggernaught like houdini, poor 'artist' workflow and all if it means I can have the power. Of course I'd rather have both, the artsy side sitting on top of houdini power. Cool stuff ahead.

Yeah... COREs architecture looks like a rewrite of Maya in many ways. :) NT has the ball in their hands now, as they can provide a similar easy to use, artist friendly workflow/toolset as to classic LW but also have the power to go very, very deep. And it's not limited to NT developers to go deep either (finally)! :D

By the looks of the FAQ, it's deeper than Maya. Time will tell though, but I'm very excited.

:)

dmack
02-08-2009, 09:26 AM
The very very open architecture of core as described on papar means that Newtek won't be the only company to create the 'flavour' of Lightwave. The Worley's and Happy Digitals etc may also help to create what ultimately becomes 'Lightwave'. I rather like that. When you look at things like realflow, and their cost, you realise that these type of 'plugins' are often as much work as the whole of a 3D application. One company, outside of monster organisations like AD, simply can't afford that level of commitement to a single specialized area...with Core's open architecture we might all have the benefit of being able o tchoose these specialized 'modules' af if they had been coded vy Newtek. Might even, with a big enough userbase be discounted...You never know!

Lightwolf
02-08-2009, 09:44 AM
Yeah... COREs architecture looks like a rewrite of Maya in many ways. :)
I hope not... Maya is so... 80ies ;)

Cheers,
Mike - who hates MEL!

cresshead
02-08-2009, 09:56 AM
I hope not... Maya is so... 80ies ;)

Cheers,
Mike - who hates MEL!

i'm trying to learn maya currently..it's so..:bangwall::mad::cursin::tsktsk::stumped:
:compbeati:alien::censored::cry:

Ernest
02-08-2009, 10:05 AM
Yeah... COREs architecture looks like a rewrite of Maya in many ways. :) To me it seems more like Maya and Houdini made a baby together and he looks like Lightwave.

kopperdrake
02-08-2009, 10:05 AM
I am so behind this change. I've not been this excited at a new outlook on an old friend as I know LW needs to do this to survive in this market, and I can't wait to use the new tools in anger. Really does make you feel alive that so many people are putting their all in to this project, devs and users alike :thumbsup:

Cageman
02-08-2009, 10:07 AM
To me it seems more like Maya and Houdini made a baby together and he looks like Lightwave.

Yeah.. Houdini is defenately in relations... and I bet that the dynamics/particles are going to have relations to ICE... ;)

dwburman
02-08-2009, 10:11 AM
I wish all of LWers who need to learn Maya could get together for a few weeks in the same room and go through the process together... Of course, 3D being as diverse as it is, we could all very well working to learn different things.

OTOH we could all share in the "WHY DOESN'T THIS WORK?! %@# $$ ... Oh, that's how it works" moments together.

:)

dwburman
02-08-2009, 10:16 AM
I wish all of LWers who need to learn Maya could get together for a few weeks in the same room and go through the process together... Of course, 3D being as diverse as it is, we could all very well working to learn different things.

OTOH we could all share in the "WHY DOESN'T THIS WORK?! %@# $$ ... Oh, that's how it works" moments together.

:)

The Dommo
02-08-2009, 10:19 AM
I am so behind this change. I've not been this excited at a new outlook on an old friend as I know LW needs to do this to survive in this market, and I can't wait to use the new tools in anger. Really does make you feel alive that so many people are putting their all in to this project, devs and users alike :thumbsup:

Totally agree with you, Sir Kopperdrake.

Finally I think LW will behave in a modern way which I was familiar with before my LW times. And that makes me want to stick with LW all the more :)

Earl
02-08-2009, 11:04 AM
To me it seems more like Maya and Houdini made a baby together and he looks like Lightwave.
So let me get this straight... Maya provided the egg, Houdini was used to fertalize the egg, and then the fertalized egg was implanted into a surrogate mother named LightWave?

Philbert
02-08-2009, 12:15 PM
I'm sitting here at Starbucks reading the latest issue of 3D World and noting how little LW stuff there is. Then I was imagining a time in the next few months or when Core is officially released, when they will write an article about it and how vastly improved it is (I assume). I was just thinking I'll bet they're going to call LW the underdog and refer to it like that thing no one wanted. And sure that might make Core sound better, but it's still kind of sad for 9.6 and earlier versions. I feel like we'll have to defend the older versions even more than we currently do and that makes me sad.

aidenvfx
02-08-2009, 12:16 PM
I love what they are hoping core to be. As for it replacing Maya I doubt it. Companies are just starting to switch over to Nuke from Shake and shake has being dead for a number of years now. Once companies have pipelines that work it does not appear at least from someone on the outside they will jump ship to new products fast.

Celshader
02-08-2009, 12:43 PM
I love what they are hoping core to be. As for it replacing Maya I doubt it. Companies are just starting to switch over to Nuke from Shake and shake has being dead for a number of years now. Once companies have pipelines that work it does not appear at least from someone on the outside they will jump ship to new products fast.

Coaxing a studio to switch from an existing software pipeline to LWCORE could depend on these things:

The thread-efficiency of software in the existing pipeline (CPUs are not getting faster, they're just adding more cores)
The thread-efficiency of LWCORE
How well LWCORE loads existing non-LW assets
How smoothly LWCORE might be introduced to the existing pipeline

Mike_RB
02-08-2009, 01:37 PM
Yeah.. Houdini is defenately in relations... and I bet that the dynamics/particles are going to have relations to ICE... ;)

ICE is just a modern VEX(vector expressions) from houdini. You only need to look to houdini for technical inspiration. :) Some of the ICE demo's on launch we're right out of houdini help cards. :)

mattclary
02-08-2009, 01:38 PM
It will be interesting in q4 which app 'feels' more like LW to people, modo or core. I'm not saying it's a bad or good thing, only that the new dev's of Lw may go in a direction that is different than what the crew at lux came up with originally for LW, and may have preserved in modo. I don't care either way, I'll use both if their good.... but it is an interesting question.

I think one of the improvements in the current development is the move to more openness. I'm no coder, but seems I have heard both LightWave and Modo have some serious shortcomings in their SDK. The new LW team seems to have made strides in this area, and seems to have moved forward by leaps and bounds with CORE.

jay3d
02-08-2009, 01:58 PM
On the technical side, Qt 4.x is a great toolkit, especially the upcoming version 4.5 with LGPL license that will cost NT nothing, and they can focus on features and workflow.

I think what NT did by choosing Qt toolkit is a very intelligent step. I predicted that many times before. Qt is not just a GUI toolkit, it's a complete programming framework, like win32 and Cocoa, with complete re-entrant and fully threaded controls and widgets, fully double/triple buffered display, Nuke using it, realflow using it.

There's not need to re-invent the wheel again like what Lux did,
on the usability side modo's workflow is well designed with the artist in mind, but on the tech side, it suffers from lots of flickering and sluggish controls and frames, and modal dialogs, and it take a great deal of ram (and it's written in plain C, Stuart is not a big fan of C++), text also is not fitting well and truncated in some panels, OpenGL speed suffers a lot.

Now being a Qt programmer for a good deal of time, I think that NT will make wonders with this toolkit in the workflow :D

The Dommo
02-08-2009, 02:27 PM
amen to that!

Earl
02-08-2009, 03:10 PM
modo's ... (and it's written in plain C, Stuart is not a big fan of C++)
Is this something you know for sure? If so, could you post a link to your source. I'm just curious, that's all.

jbavar
02-08-2009, 08:22 PM
I believe that NT will continue a maintenance only upgrade program to the current Lightwave and allow third party devs to grow it. However it is my guess that NT is going to now dedicate most all of their in house resources to getting CORE stable, production ready and to market as quickly as possible. After that I would guess that the old LW code will be shelved. Personally I don't think it would be feasible for NT to support two 3d apps that target the same market.

jay3d
02-09-2009, 01:02 AM
Is this something you know for sure? If so, could you post a link to your source. I'm just curious, that's all.

goto here :

http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=4223&page=1

on the modo forums

Stuart Ferguson said in 2005:



All programming languages are pretty much the same. Any language you choose will let you write fast code or slow code, procedural code or object-oriented code, readable code or unintelligible gibberish. Some may provide more features and helpful shortcuts than others, but in all cases you are relying on your own skills and sweat to make the real work happen.

The best langauge for learning programming is the one that suits the project you want to create. If you want to create web services, Java or Perl are probably better choices than C or C++. Java can run directly in a browser, and there are vast Perl libraries for server-based scripting. If you want to build some simple GUI interfaces, however, you might want to learn with Visual Basic. You'll get something that works more easily so you'll be less frustrated and have fun, and the concepts you learn there will be applicable to other languages if you decide you want to do something different.

For general 3D graphics work you have a number of choices. The trend for academic 3D work is to use Java, so there is an increasing amount of code samples available in that language. The reason for this is that Java is a relatively modern language and is highly portable. You could also write in C or C++. That code will generally run faster, but it will be harder to get something working and you'll be more committed to a particular platform or system. If you are concerned about portability it's probably also a good idea to stick with OpenGL rather than something like Direct3D.

Our SDK will come with C and C++ headers. The C API is not for the faint of heart, so it'll probably be best to stick with C++. The C++ API, for which you get the complete source, is really just a wrapper around the C API. This should allow code jocks to create wrappers for other language families.

We don't use C++ in our core code for the simple reason that we don't need it. We can do everything we need more easily with C, and large-scale C++ projects are considerably harder to manage :screwy: . As a so-called modern object-oriented language, C++ is deficient in many ways:

1) Intrinsic types are not objects. I can't perform a "+4" method on a number object and have it do the right thing for floats and ints. This is the single biggest drawback of trying to bolt OO jet-engines onto the C Yugo.

2) Data types are statically defined. No anonymous messages or metaclasses. What are we, Puritans?

3) Construtors and destructors. The Horror. The Horror.

4) Public/private/friend. When I first read about this I thought they were joking. One of the key principles of OO programming is data-hiding. How can you hide your data if the language won't support opaque objects?

5) Try to keep a straight face while talking about a "virtual static member."
"hey Stuart, please return to school, virtual static member is not allowed in C++" :screwy:

I could go on and on, but then we'd never get 201 done...


EDIT: That explains clearly why such a buggy software they have, and if u look at the LW sdk, you'll see how they screw up the code with many assigns to void* pointer, that C++ will not allow without a suitable cast.

Gregg "T.Rex"
02-09-2009, 02:11 AM
Jay...
Go back to work, will ya ? :)

Lightwolf
02-09-2009, 02:20 AM
<Never mind, I saw jay3ds link...>

colkai
02-09-2009, 05:37 AM
Reading that then, I presume Modo does in fact have an SDK, I thought some folks said it hadn't.
Or was it a case back then that they thought they could write one but never got around to it?

Lightwolf
02-09-2009, 05:53 AM
Reading that then, I presume Modo does in fact have an SDK, I thought some folks said it hadn't.
Or was it a case back then that they thought they could write one but never got around to it?

They just don't have a complete, public one. It's basically just i/o (images, meshes and scenes).

Cheers
Mike

Matt
02-09-2009, 06:16 AM
Is LightWave dead ?

No.

mattclary
02-09-2009, 06:28 AM
They just don't have a complete, public one. It's basically just i/o (images, meshes and scenes).

Cheers
Mike

And THAT is the difference between the old crew and the new crew, and why LW will come out on top. :newtek:

iluxa
02-09-2009, 06:31 AM
Reading that then, I presume Modo does in fact have an SDK, I thought some folks said it hadn't.
Or was it a case back then that they thought they could write one but never got around to it?
They just don't have a complete, public one. It's basically just i/o (images, meshes and scenes).

Cheers
Mike
Mike i think it's more... and slightly simple(with sliders of quality)
Please, you can download lux.render engine and trial Microstation(with packs) from Bentley(not advertising)
Anyway LX-engine is 4(.01) version of nexus's core. And it beats to lw-core. Really!

colkai
02-09-2009, 07:30 AM
Sliders for an SDK, that's a good one. Dang, I've been coding wrong all these years. :D :p
Here's me thinking you actually had to write code, (goes looking for sliders in his C# IDE).

Lightwolf
02-09-2009, 07:35 AM
Mike i think it's more...
Nope, it's not public! Can they re-sell their tech? Of course. Look at Rendition for PS using the LW render engine (which is basically the same principle).

Cheers,
Mike

MAUROCOR
02-09-2009, 07:39 AM
Naw, LightWave has returned to us as "LightWave the White (http://tinyurl.com/au6dpw)." New form, vastly upgraded powers, and you kinda have to get to know him all over again.

;)


I loved the "LightWave the White" concept.
More... I think the new LWCORE UI should be white with a long and beautiful white beard.
:lightwave

iluxa
02-09-2009, 07:41 AM
i think somebody reads this http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Corporate/News/Quarter+3/Luxology.htm

MAUROCOR you are right... i'm seeing volumetric functions of lw are beautiful.
Not only for atmosheric effects, also are for implementing of several solids properties...

Bog
02-09-2009, 07:59 AM
Thank you for my early-afternoon guffaw, Jen. And, indeed, to Gregg T. Rex for starting this thread. I think we ought to keep track, because this has to be about the 5,000th "Is LightWave Dead/Dying" thread I've seen since Al Gore invented the Internets. There should be a cup or something.

I think the simplest comparison is Maya to Wavefront. Big from-scratch rebuild to say "toodles" to all the legacy stuffs. If the LightWave name disappears, and I end up using "Core" as my primary toolset, I'm not exactly going to shed any tears. Hell, with what I can see in the tech FAQ they can call it Princess Winkyphartle and I wouldn't bat an eye.

IMI
02-09-2009, 08:09 AM
And THAT is the difference between the old crew and the new crew, and why LW will come out on top. :newtek:

Well don't forget the "old crew" is the crew that invented LW, the app we've all been loving and loving to hate for a good while now. ;)

I wouldn't write the Lux people off so quickly. They're not trying to make Modo all things to all people all at once, they're working their way up slowly. And considering their built-in sculpting and painting, plus the ability to easily make all kinds of maps like AO and displacement and normal maps for your models, plus the ability to use that data to convert a very hi-res mesh into a very lo-res mesh that looks almost identical, I'm expecting Modo to become as big in the gaming industry as XSI is now. Within five years, I bet.

manholoz
02-09-2009, 08:55 AM
Well don't forget the "old crew" is the crew that invented LW, the app we've all been loving and loving to hate for a good while now. ;)

I wouldn't write the Lux people off so quickly. They're not trying to make Modo all things to all people all at once, they're working their way up slowly. And considering their built-in sculpting and painting, plus the ability to easily make all kinds of maps like AO and displacement and normal maps for your models, plus the ability to use that data to convert a very hi-res mesh into a very lo-res mesh that looks almost identical, I'm expecting Modo to become as big in the gaming industry as XSI is now. Within five years, I bet.

I'll agree to that. We must be thankful for what they did when they were in charge of Lightwave. Maybe even for their mistakes. Who knows, if the code was not such a mess, would there have been that much of an incentive to do something completely new (as the core seems to be)?

mattclary
02-09-2009, 09:43 AM
Well don't forget the "old crew" is the crew that invented LW, the app we've all been loving and loving to hate for a good while now. ;)


No hate from me, I love LightWave. I feel like the New Crew is taking a good thing and purifying it, or distilling it. I like Jen's take, "LightWave the White"...

Having a "closed" product (in 3D) is a bad idea, IMO. Too many people want to drop in their own renderer or extend the product in other ways. I feel like the New Crew understands that, and the Old Crew either didn't, or wanted to keep their cards too close to the vest.

doimus
02-10-2009, 01:00 AM
Hmm... version numbers.... is CORE actually LW Core 10.0 or are we re-starting from 1.0?

(Not that it has any relevance, but the bean-counter in me is curious.)

Earl
02-10-2009, 11:32 AM
goto here :
http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/topic.aspx?id=4223&page=1
In the modo forums
Stuart Ferguson said in 2005:
Thanks!

mosconariz
02-12-2009, 11:38 AM
Hmm... version numbers.... is CORE actually LW Core 10.0 or are we re-starting from 1.0?

(Not that it has any relevance, but the bean-counter in me is curious.)


Yeap, I have been wondering the same question...

1.0

or

10

Lightwolf
02-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Yeap, I have been wondering the same question...

1.0

or

10
2010 :D

Cheers,
Mike

Philbert
02-12-2009, 03:31 PM
Or does it have no number at all like Photoshop CS, it's just "CORE". Although I believe Photoshop CS was technically 8.0 if you looked at the About screen. Then the next version Core 2, then Core 2 Duo, then... wait I don't think that will work.

kfinla
02-12-2009, 10:30 PM
I've noticed no one from Newtek refers to Core as LW 10... I'm worried Core = XSI 1.0... new technology, sparse on features. Even comes with LW 9.6 like XSI 1.0 came with Softimage 3.9 cuz XSI 1.0 didnt have a polygon modeling toolset. Notice that the LWO format is still supported in Core :). It took till XSI 3 for Soft to be feature competitive with Maya. Hope I'm wrong but it seems very early days, even still in the conceptual stages from what we've seen and read, or should I say have not seen and can't yet be shown. I've been using LW 10 yrs now, and want NT to succeed, I truly hope they are further along than my mind is telling me.

colkai
02-13-2009, 02:05 AM
I've noticed no one from Newtek refers to Core as LW 10...
I'm sure I heard something about them saying LW10 was not going to be an 'incarnation', which makes sense really as CORE is apparently so different in it's architecture that going with a new name tag drives that point home.

*Pete*
02-13-2009, 02:33 AM
if you look at computer games, you might find that for example GTA, it was a 2d, top-down game in its first versions, and a 3d fps in the latest games.

it still continues under the name GTA, GTA2. GTA 3. GTA 4 and so on, even if it obviously is a totally different game and has completely rewritten code.

you may find less dramatic changes in the Doom and Unreal fps series..they too changed the code once or twice and kept going under the same name.

in all games i just named, you will still recognice that it is still the same game, just much improved...the basic idea and the feeling is still there, the things you did in the earlier versions are still doable in the later versions.
i believe CORE will be just like that...it can be called LW 10; CORE, or LW CORE 1, or just CORE 1, or Newtek CORE, or HARDCORE; members only.

the name is not all too important, as long it is familiar enough to its userbase...as long we do not need to relearn how to draw a box, as long we do not need to learn new keyboard shortcuts (specially F9 needs to have its original function)..the name is, as i said less important than the "feeling" it gives.

colkai
02-13-2009, 04:12 AM
Yup, thus I think why Lightwave Core and not some brad new brand as it were.
One, a brand name change isn't going to sway people thinking "oh, it's not Lightwave anymore so..." and two, those who feel some brand recognition in the name will not feel as sure about a whole new name. Even though, as you say, it is just that, a name, funny things us humans. ;)

doimus
02-13-2009, 06:01 AM
Yeah, CORE could be just a name tag, like CS, XP, 2000 or all that stuff that got associated to software when they crossed into the high version numbers. It's interesting that Microsoft is reverting back to number versions but using it at the same time as a brand, with Win 7.

Or it could symbolize the fresh start like XSI. It works either way.

But I miss the old days when even games came with geeky version numbers. My fav being Falcon 3.0 :)

frantbk
02-13-2009, 07:55 AM
Now, NewTek is moving beyond, by creating a new application called LightWave Core, which as it seems so far, the only common thing with LightWave, is the name and three fundamental points that made LightWave what it is: easy of use, quality renderer and a certain type of workflow, we all used to work... [/wuote]

The failure of this concept of rewriting the code. Is NewTek really writing all new code for the tool sets, or is this rewrite simple substitution of verbiage based on the requirements of the new coding system? This industry has a tendency to exaggerate/hype as completely new coding when in fact it is just a side shift evolutionary step of changing over to a different coding system.

[quote] But, maybe with the exception of the renderer, the other two factors are just generalized ideas, which can be applied in numerous different ways and that lead to think that LightWave Core is not LightWave...

I doubt very much NewTek is throwing away all of the coding gains of the 9.x series for a completely new coding of Lightwave core. The reality probably is that much of the foundation for the change is already in the 9. x series. Remember NewTek stated, in writing, that they've been reviewing Core's coding system for 2 years before any test code was produced.


Of course, that doesn't matter at all, because LightWave Core will be all those things LightWave could never be, so yes; let's burn it to the ground and let it rise from it's ashes... :D
If that's the case, then i'm good with LightWave's "death"... :2guns::lwicon:

Still, there's a sad feeling in the air, isn't it... ?
Just thinking out loud, that's all... :)

Some of you guys need to come up for air death of lightwave? rising from the ashes? With this kind of talk floating around the forums NewTek would do the rest of us a service by explaining, over the next few months, just how much of core is rewrite 9.x tool sets and what is really new coding in lightwave core. Luke, Luke use the force. :tsktsk:

colkai
02-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Personally, I can completely buy into the concept that they have written from the ground up. sometimes, as a coder, it really is far easier to do than to try and retro-fit existing code into new ideas. I've done it myself time and again, not saying 100% of the code needs to be brand new, but if they've moved from C to C++ then I'd say there would be very little that hasn't been done.

lordtangent
02-13-2009, 02:06 PM
As for the Official name of Core, I think naming it "Lightwave X" would not be a terrible choice. After all, it actually IS version ten of the Lightwave product. (Or the "3D" product from Newtek, however you want to think of it) . After "X" the version numbers could then go up like X.1.0, X.2.1, etc. (10.1.0, 10.2.1, etc!)

I think for Newtek to completely divorce the new package from the Lightwave brand would be a mistake. The only danger of continuing to associate Core with "Lightwave" might be that people familiar with the old product mistake Core for the older klugey versions of LW. But the counter argument to that is a new unproven 3D tool with no track record is a hard sell also! (which describes Core! I'm amazed how even LW users are skeptical ) Newtek has to walk a fine line and associate Core with Lightwaves successes while simultaneously making it clear that Core is a completely new system. It's a job for a marketing guru really. But if I were them, I would definitly be sure to make it clear which parts of Core that have a direct R&D lineage from LW. (Not necessarily the same identical CODE... but an R&D lineage) For example rendering. I'm sure that much of the rendering technology will just get moved over into Core. So (assuming this is the case... I don't know!) make it clear that Cores renderer is actually Lightwaves legendary renderer. And for those who don't follow LW, (anyone OUTSIDE the LW community) be sure to re-announce the 9.5 and 9.6 render improvements.

frantbk
02-13-2009, 02:08 PM
Personally, I can completely buy into the concept that they have written from the ground up. sometimes, as a coder, it really is far easier to do than to try and retro-fit existing code into new ideas. I've done it myself time and again, not saying 100% of the code needs to be brand new, but if they've moved from C to C++ then I'd say there would be very little that hasn't been done.

Sounds reasonable, so NewTek shouldn't have any problem explaining some of the changes until the release of core. that way those of us not in the membership can have a fuller understanding of maybe why we should have a membership. I think someone on the Lux modcast said it best "if you're heavy invested into lightwave already then $395.00-495.00 is reasonable." NewTek has three types of customers interested in core. The heavy invested in lightwave. The interested customer who has, or may not, have lightwave, but hasn't reached the point that switching software is a major investment. the third is the 3D package junkie that runs around the Internet, knows more about every program then most and isn't happy unless their is a new package/upgrade somewhere on the Internet to down load.

I'm the number 2 customer, not heavy invested in lightwave, or any other package. Because I'm the number 2 customer I want to know what core will do for me the others will not, and why this technology will be a better investment then the other package. If core is really a complete rewrite - NewTek - Help me understand how and why. :confused:

frantbk
02-13-2009, 02:11 PM
As for the Official name of Core, I think naming it "Lightwave X" would not be a terrible choice. After all, it actually IS version ten of the Lightwave product. (Or the "3D" product from Newtek, however you want to think of it) . After "X" the version numbers could then go up like X.1.0, X.2.1, etc. (10.1.0, 10.2.1, etc!)

I think for Newtek to completely divorce the new package from the Lightwave brand would be a mistake. The only danger of continuing to associate Core with "Lightwave" might be that people familiar with the old product mistake Core for the older klugey versions of LW. But the counter argument to that is a new unproven 3D tool with no track record is a hard sell also! (which describes Core! I'm amazed how even LW users are skeptical ) Newtek has to walk a fine line and associate Core with Lightwaves successes while simultaneously making it clear that Core is a completely new system. It's a job for a marketing guru really. But if I were them, I would definitly be sure to make it clear which parts of Core that have a direct R&D lineage from LW. (Not necessarily the same identical CODE... but an R&D lineage) For example rendering. I'm sure that much of the rendering technology will just get moved over into Core. So (assuming this is the case... I don't know!) make it clear that Cores renderer is actually Lightwaves legendary renderer. And for those who don't follow LW, (anyone OUTSIDE the LW community) be sure to re-announce the 9.5 and 9.6 render improvements.

It could be named core because like Softimage XSI and Softimage the two had nothing in common at the coding level. Just like 3D Studio became 3D Studio Max when it went from dos menu driven to Windows GUI.

Nicolas Jordan
02-13-2009, 02:37 PM
It could be named core because like Softimage XSI and Softimage the two had nothing in common at the coding level. Just like 3D Studio became 3D Studio Max when it went from dos menu driven to Windows GUI.

Exactly what I was thinking too. Core is to Lightwave what XSI is to Softimage and what Max is to 3D Studio. Let us not forget that Power Animator was reborn as Maya in the same general way all the other products were but it didn't follow the tack on naming convention and instead the old name scrapped in favor of a new name.

gpdesigner
02-13-2009, 03:15 PM
Repost:
core is starting to look like 3d studio with it's stacking menu and modeler view and object creation. If they make core work 64 Bit with Mac it may be worth it but until facts are know, I will stick with version 9.0
gp

lordtangent
02-13-2009, 03:34 PM
Sure. "Core" isn't the WORST name ever. But I'm not wild about it either. I can already imagine the turns of phrase applied to it that are already applied to LW. For example, the perennial favorite: "Lightweight" Now it can be Lightweight | Core Dump. Lovely...

colkai
02-14-2009, 03:28 AM
Sure. "Core" isn't the WORST name ever. But I'm not wild about it either. I can already imagine the turns of phrase applied to it that are already applied to LW. For example, the perennial favorite: "Lightweight" Now it can be Lightweight | Core Dump. Lovely...

Put simply, if that is ones train of thought, then the desire to disparage will occur regardless of what the package is called.
If LW == lightweight then surely Maya == May not, May crash, May fail?

Truth is, all of that sort of behaviour I've seen in the past has happened with every single release of LW (along with the old LW is finished, it'll never last the year). It also, strangely, happens from the very same people every time, who often as not, never actually use LW in a production environment but have "moved on". :screwy: :stumped:

CORE is good for me, (hardcore, not so much).

*Pete*
02-14-2009, 03:33 AM
CORE is good for me, (hardcore, not so much).

yes, i think softcore should be a better name..it is software after all, not hardware:D

colkai
02-14-2009, 04:03 AM
Hehe, I'd prefer something less, err, ahem, shall we say, suggestive of other things? :p

Mike_RB
02-14-2009, 06:30 AM
"Core Development Program" instead of "HARDCORE".

IMI
02-14-2009, 06:53 AM
How about "The Program Formerly Known as LightWave"?

They could be the Prince of 3D software. :D

Mike_RB
02-14-2009, 07:39 AM
How about "The Program Formerly Known as LightWave"?

They could be the Prince of 3D software. :D

Cue the combo logo of Lw and prince....

Kuzey
02-14-2009, 07:48 AM
Repost:
core is starting to look like 3d studio with it's stacking menu and modeler view and object creation. If they make core work 64 Bit with Mac it may be worth it but until facts are know, I will stick with version 9.0
gp

The Mac version of LWCore is already 64bit as mentioned in the Mac forums by Chilton :thumbsup:

Kuzey

frantbk
02-14-2009, 10:08 AM
Exactly what I was thinking too. Core is to Lightwave what XSI is to Softimage and what Max is to 3D Studio. Let us not forget that Power Animator was reborn as Maya in the same general way all the other products were but it didn't follow the tack on naming convention and instead the old name scrapped in favor of a new name.

Power Animator and Wavefront combined to make Maya. Is it unreasonable to have NewTek have a FAQ sheet on the Core site? This FAQ sheet, that can be answered over time until the release core, could be any question asked several times in the forum, or a question that has 3 or more poster agreeing that it is a reasonable question. Examples:

1: Will Core have layers
2: Is Core the end of 32 bit package?
3: If 32 bit is ending with Lightwave 9.6 how long will NewTek sell Lightwave 9.6 32 bit after the release of core?
4: Is history being built into Core?
5: Is core using the same file extension?
6: How backwards compatible will Core be?
7: Will Core support Nurbs, Splines Sub D?

*Pete*
02-14-2009, 10:49 AM
some of those questions are already answered in the core reveal video and elsewhere.



1: Will Core have layers

no info on this, but propably yes.


2: Is Core the end of 32 bit package?

no, CORE will come as 32 and 64 bit.


3: If 32 bit is ending with Lightwave 9.6 how long will NewTek sell Lightwave 9.6 32 bit after the release of core?

good question, i would assume untill CORE can do all that 9.6 can do and more.


4: Is history being built into Core?

history stacking, yes...if there is an option to turn it off/on is unknown.


5: Is core using the same file extension?

yes, *.LWO (but the LWO file will be Collada format)


6: How backwards compatible will Core be?

you need to save LWO files specifically for older versions, older LWO should by all logic be readable in CORE, so i assume in that sence close to 100% compatible.


7: Will Core support Nurbs, Splines Sub D?
unknown..subd's are confirmed, but nurbs not.

frantbk
02-14-2009, 11:46 AM
Everybody talks about the video? but when I used the core e-mail link nothing happen. Where's this video?

Also F*** the video, put the answers in writing from NewTek. I'm not getting burned by listening to non-NewTek people about should have answers. I want Company issued facts, not fiction statements from people who assume to know the facts.

Mike_RB
02-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Everybody talks about the video? but when I used the core e-mail link nothing happen. Where's this video?

http://www.newtek.com/core/video.php

Slightly updated from its initial incarnation.

frantbk
02-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Ok! NewTek has the core video up on the core page. I know it wasn't there earlier this week when I looked.

New questions:
1: Knowing all the problems modo users have with their changeable interface. How is the GUI config files/system different from modo's, or will I have to delete the file every time core pulls its ***-over-its-tits?
2: Because cores GUI looks like the same principles used on a modo GUI. What is the deal on multiple monitor use?
3: Because core has a work plane can any 3D model work be done with out it? Can work plane be turned off? Can work plane be sized on the fly? How many work planes can by used, Just one? Can I set up several work planes on the x, y, and z at the same time?
4: What about the hidden gird used for calculations? Modo has had hard times because the hidden grid lacked accuracy necessary for Archviz/CAD/CMC work.
5: manipulator tools - where is the requester box? using the SDK can I add more information to a manipulator requester box? Can I use the SDK to add more functionality to the manipulator requester box?

I'll stop here for now. NewTek got any answers?

IMI
02-14-2009, 01:28 PM
Everybody talks about the video? but when I used the core e-mail link nothing happen. Where's this video?

Also F*** the video, put the answers in writing from NewTek. I'm not getting burned by listening to non-NewTek people about should have answers. I want Company issued facts, not fiction statements from people who assume to know the facts.

I see you've returned with your usual charm, eloquence, and impeccable grammar...

Far as I can tell, Newtek HAS released facts. The facts they're ready for people to know at this point.
I'm sure when they're ready for people to know more facts, said facts will be made available, on their schedule, and at that point there will be no reason for you to worry about "getting burned by listening to non-NewTek people..."

Cageman
02-14-2009, 01:33 PM
I see you've returned with your usual charm, eloquence, and impeccable grammar...

Many LW-users, including myself, does not have english as a native language. It's hard as it is, and comments like this make things even harder...

:)

IMI
02-14-2009, 01:51 PM
Many LW-users, including myself, does not have english as a native language. It's hard as it is, and comments like this make things even harder...

:)

Yes, you're right, but he does, has said so in the past, and in any event, he just virtually asks for being f**ked with every time he makes an appearance in a thread.
You know I don't normally do that sort of thing...

*Pete*
02-14-2009, 02:08 PM
he just virtually asks for being f**ked with every time he makes an appearance in a thread.

im with Cageman on this one...how can we learn proper spelling and grammar when some less helpfull people are using some secret language and hide words with *'s...i do not even know how to pronounce *...

from your post i assume that you wrote something like fked (becouse of the similiarity of the words)..its just too hardcore to decode stuff like that.

SkidBoot
02-14-2009, 06:15 PM
* are used to replace letters in a word that is not to be used on the forum. We know what it is, but technically it was not written since letters were replaced.

If you all were joking, I totally missed the joke and apologize for my slow humor. :)

frantbk
02-14-2009, 07:42 PM
I see you've returned with your usual charm, eloquence, and impeccable grammar...


Wow, and as always the condescending reply of someone intending to fan the fire of discontent. There are five reasonable questions posted after watching the video. Just by watching the video you can see that lightwave core has the potential to repeat modo's problems - because the two will be object oriented based - NewTek has an opportunity to side step many of the issues that modo had/has. I think if you really cared about lightwave core and NewTek's health and welfare you would want to address these issue and NewTek should hear answers about their direction and if the customer base is willing to follow. What the hell, one crappy release right after a good 9.6 release should be expected.

IMI
02-14-2009, 08:39 PM
Wow, and as always the condescending reply of someone intending to fan the fire of discontent. There are five reasonable questions posted after watching the video. Just by watching the video you can see that lightwave core has the potential to repeat modo's problems - because the two will be object oriented based - NewTek has an opportunity to side step many of the issues that modo had/has. I think if you really cared about lightwave core and NewTek's health and welfare you would want to address these issue and NewTek should hear answers about their direction and if the customer base is willing to follow. What the hell, one crappy release right after a good 9.6 release should be expected.

The questions may be reasonable, but all I saw was you *demanding* they do something, along with a general stab at everyone's credibility:


Also F*** the video, put the answers in writing from NewTek. I'm not getting burned by listening to non-NewTek people about should have answers. I want Company issued facts, not fiction statements from people who assume to know the facts.


As I stated, delivered with your customary charm...

They've barely got the whole Core thing started. It's only been ten days since their official launch, or whatever you want to call it, but there are probably at least 2,000 posts here since then with people whining, b!tching, p!ssing and moaning that they haven't done enough, to the point of getting extremely rude about it, and even insulting NT's advertising skills and integrity, along with a whole lot of comparisons to modo, for some bizarre reason. Comparisons delivered in a not-very- complimentary way, BTW.

You ask if it's unreasonable to expect a FAQ. No, eventually it would probably be unreasonable NOT to have a FAQ, but only ten days later? IMO, it's unreasonable to be *demanding* that they do things just because other people would like them to, and especially unreasonable for so many people to be getting so bent out of shape because NT has failed to satisfy their curiosity *immediately*.

Many of these Core threads have reminded me of something which happened many years ago: One Christmas, my then six-year-old son threw a classically childish fit because we were making him wait to open presents until his grandmother arrived. And she was only a half hour away.

The difference is, he was a little kid and was acting like little kids tend to do...

IMI
02-14-2009, 08:44 PM
from your post i assume that you wrote something like fked (becouse of the similiarity of the words)..its just too hardcore to decode stuff like that.

So, what does "fked" mean? Looks like one of those Viking words you might expect to hear seconds before you get a cask of beer broken over your head in some medieval barroom. ;)

frantbk
02-14-2009, 10:36 PM
The questions may be reasonable, but all I saw was you *demanding* they do something, along with a general stab at everyone's credibility:
You saw what you always see - something you don't like because not enough sugar was add to your liking.


They've barely got the whole Core thing started. It's only been ten days since their official launch, or whatever you want to call it, but there are probably at least 2,000 posts here since then with people
2 years and 10 days since NewTek started this project of switching to Core. NewTek has had 2 years to prepare for this core release, so stop with the B.S. you make it sound like NewTek just threw together the Core release.


whining, b!tching, p!ssing and moaning that they haven't done enough, to the point of getting extremely rude about it, and even insulting NT's advertising skills and integrity, along with a whole lot of comparisons to modo, for some bizarre reason. Comparisons delivered in a not-very- complimentary way, BTW.
What is really sad about this post here IMI is you can't see the same structure of coding in Lightwave core based on the Object Oriented environment. If you can't see that modo and lightwave core are merging because of the object oriented environment that is your failure. Modo is the only program in the last 6 years to require a work plane to preform 3D work, and Lightwave Core just happens to have a work plane as a foundation for its modeling structure - What is bizarre is the foundation of your reasoning.


You ask if it's unreasonable to expect a FAQ. No, eventually it would probably be unreasonable NOT to have a FAQ, but only ten days later? IMO, it's unreasonable to be *demanding* that they do things just because other people would like them to, and especially unreasonable for so many people to be getting so bent out of shape because NT has failed to satisfy their curiosity *immediately*.

NewTek f***ed up with the promotion of lightwave core. NewTek generated too much interest in core and didn't do enough preparation for the amount of interest their gimmick created. Add to that gimmick the launch of a $495.00 membership and an increase of lightwave to $1495.00 only fanboys would think this backlash is unreasonable and that people are demanding.


Many of these Core threads have reminded me of something which happened many years ago: One Christmas, my then six-year-old son threw a classically childish fit because we were making him wait to open presents until his grandmother arrived. And she was only a half hour away.

The difference is, he was a little kid and was acting like little kids tend to do...

What is bizarre is that you think this dumb *** Christmas story about your kid's fit has anything to do with NewTek screwing up with a PR gimmick that has backfired. You are right about one thing. NewTek's PR department is run by kids, only kids would be dumb enough to generate this kind of hype and not have the necessary information in place to answer customer questions because of the hype from the gimmick. NewTek is in the middle of this because their kids over hyped lightwave core, because of their cool gimmick.

IMI
02-14-2009, 11:20 PM
No, what I see is you once again in your characteristic way, absolutely, completely failing to understand what's been written.
Examples:




2 years and 10 days since NewTek started this project of switching to Core. NewTek has had 2 years to prepare for this core release, so stop with the B.S. you make it sound like NewTek just threw together the Core release.


And present it they did. In their way, as it should be.



What is bizarre is that you think this dumb *** Christmas story about your kid's fit has anything to do with NewTek screwing up with a PR gimmick that has backfired. You are right about one thing. NewTek's PR department is run by kids, only kids would be dumb enough to generate this kind of hype and not have the necessary information in place to answer customer questions because of the hype from the gimmick. NewTek is in the middle of this because their kids over hyped lightwave core, because of their cool gimmick.


Even better yet at proving my point you're either incapable of reading comprehension, or coming up with an argument in context. Probably a good deal of both, based on what I've seen before.
Since you include innuendo and apologue in your list of things you don't understand, I'll say it outright - alot of you people are acting like crying little children.

And I'm not "right about one thing. NewTek's PR department is run by kids, blahblahblah..."
I didn't say that, so how could I be right about it? You really need to go back to to forum argument school.

"Necessary information to answer people's questions...."
What you have failed to notice (huge surprise there...) is that all they've announced is the HardCORE membership and its terms. I understand it, most other people around here understand it, but somehow you don't seem to understand it. Another huge surprise...
And considering you're likely to fail to understand the above paragraph, I'll put it simpler: Everything they've said regarding the *current offering* (HardCORE membership, in case you got lost already) has been explained and answered.
They've touched on the basics of what the release will ultimately be, with a promise to get more specific before the deadline. How can that possibly not be enough? Are you genuinely concerned for their welfare as a company? I'd say, let them handle that.

No, I imagine you understand that, although I wouldn't bet on you passing a test regarding the details, but rather, you have rejected it as inadequate. You have to have it it now, now, NOW....

In addition to their initial presentation was the promise that more information would be forthcoming. Most reasonable people understand that to mean at their pace, not ours.
Equally, they've said more info would be released before the HardCORE deadline, so people can decide whether or not to buy into it. They've also said that their programmers have alot they'd LIKE to show, but can't just yet. You want to see a demo of a feature that isn't quite there yet? I'm thinking they understand that's not a good idea.
And of course, nobody is forcing anybody to buy into it or not.

jay3d
02-15-2009, 12:53 AM
Please IMI, cageman don't feed the trolls, just ignore'em :)

I heard some new feature of testing the IQ in vBulletin before joining, NT could implement that :thumbsup:

:lightwave:I_Love_Ne

DiedonD
02-15-2009, 02:10 AM
Certain people get agitated by whatever you say IMI.

Theyre restless and insecure.The more you deal with them, the more you diffuse attention to their endless need for it.

So a 'dont feed the restless trolls' here too. Certain people wouldnt have never been known otherwise, if they didnt seek for means to provocke, put flamy words that demand answers and such.

They only appear 'onstage' as such when they suddenly get hungry for attention, and they appear so with those dire needs sadly.

I tried to namem once. Didnt work out that well.

scratch33
02-15-2009, 03:24 AM
Many of these Core threads have reminded me of something which happened many years ago: One Christmas, my then six-year-old son threw a classically childish fit because we were making him wait to open presents until his grandmother arrived. And she was only a half hour away.

The difference is, he was a little kid and was acting like little kids tend to do...

:agree: too.

Iain
02-15-2009, 04:21 AM
Yeah well I'm not falling for this scam until Newtek can assure me (and I will expect nothing less than a personal, handwritten letter) that it will be better than Maya and XSI rolled into one.

:hey:

*Pete*
02-15-2009, 07:03 AM
Im expecting a personal call, or perhaps a homevisit by NT europe....and i dont want to speak with just a salesman, i want a programmer to explain to me the questions i have.

IMI
02-15-2009, 08:12 AM
You people are thinking so dated, so....analog.

I find it reprehensible that they're not even *working* on the telepathic link between the developers and the consumers, so that we may all know what they're doing, as they do it, no excuses, no ability to dodge any issues or questions.

frantbk
02-15-2009, 10:43 AM
Even better yet at proving my point you're either incapable of reading comprehension, or coming up with an argument in context. Probably a good deal of both, based on what I've seen before.
Since you include innuendo and apologue in your list of things you don't understand, I'll say it outright - alot of you people are acting like crying little children.

How many servings of B.S. did you have for breakfast? You call anyone voicing their opinion as a crying little child instead of understanding people are explaining (not to your liking) that NewTek's direction does not impress them and that their gimmick has generated more concern then comfort.


And I'm not "right about one thing. NewTek's PR department is run by kids, blahblahblah..."
I didn't say that, so how could I be right about it? You really need to go back to to forum argument school.

Based on the fact you're calling people you don't like kids because you don't like what these people say. Once you call one group kids that analogy can be applied to any other group in the discussion. maybe you need to update you analogy skills.


"Necessary information to answer people's questions...."
What you have failed to notice (huge surprise there...) is that all they've announced is the HardCORE membership and its terms. I understand it, most other people around here understand it, but somehow you don't seem to understand it. Another huge surprise...

In reality NewTek only explained the current hardcore membership terms for anyone signing before March 31st. NewTek hasn't explained in detail much about the return/benifit of membership for anyone signing up at the middle of the year, or near the end of the year.


They've touched on the basics of what the release will ultimately be, with a promise to get more specific before the deadline. How can that possibly not be enough? Are you genuinely concerned for their welfare as a company? I'd say, let them handle that.

I would hope so, I would hope NewTek is smart enough to provide bi-monthly updates. There is 8 months until the first part of the 4th quarter and 10 months until the end of the 4th quarter. December 31st is the deadline for the release of Lightwave Core. NewTek claims that if they miss the deadline for Core release the membership will still receive their copy of core when it is released. Ten days after the release of lightwave core NewTek is already giving reassurance because of poor wording of the membership. NewTek has already opened the door that they might not meet their 4th quarter release date of 8 months from now.


No, I imagine you understand that, although I wouldn't bet on you passing a test regarding the details, but rather, you have rejected it as inadequate. You have to have it it now, now, NOW....

NewTek screwed up the video release of core and it took NewTek 5-7 days or more to put the core video on the core page. Now, now, now is an expected response to poor information flow. NewTek needs to build trust that they have the ability to deliver the information.


In addition to their initial presentation was the promise that more information would be forthcoming. Most reasonable people understand that to mean at their pace, not ours.

NewTek can not drop the ball on information flow and expect anyone, but sugar spouting fanboys to trust NewTek's promise of future information. NewTek and you IMI can not expect anyone sitting on the fence to trust NewTek's word when necessary information wasn't provide during the launch of core. you seem to be the only one that doesn't understand this crying as you call it is an expected reaction to NewTek's drop launch of information flow.


Equally, they've said more info would be released before the HardCORE deadline, so people can decide whether or not to buy into it. They've also said that their programmers have alot they'd LIKE to show, but can't just yet. You want to see a demo of a feature that isn't quite there yet? I'm thinking they understand that's not a good idea.
And of course, nobody is forcing anybody to buy into it or not.

With a minimum of 8 months I hope NewTek does more then wait until the day before the release of core to release information. Unless of course that buy in to HardCore membership is for 2010.

First, all the question sasked, after watching the video, are based on a review of the released video. Therefore, there is nothing unreasonable about asking the current questions and expecting answers from NewTek. if the only point of the video is to generate hype, then don't waste my time. On the other hand, if this video is to see customer reaction and generate customer feedback. Then NewTek needs to answer all question that each video generates to gain a greater level of customer trust.

Secondly, you've gone on, and on about small issues, but I see that when faced with the question of Object Orient environment you are silent on all issues. What's the matter not enough sugar left to spout fanboy comments?

jay3d
02-15-2009, 10:54 AM
What's wrong with Object Oriented Environment?

IMI
02-15-2009, 11:04 AM
blah blah blah... fanboy this, fanboy that...blahblahblah...

Whatever you say, frankie, I'm through with you, have nothing more to say to you on this issue, and hopefully no other issues either.

DiedonD
02-15-2009, 12:41 PM
Whatever you say, frankie, I'm through with you, have nothing more to say to you on this issue, and hopefully no other issues either.

For some reason you always remind me of this character IMI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaB3fPxmPp8&feature=PlayList&p=E659A21C83EA4C7E&playnext=1&index=51

Keiji Maeda, on the game that I played. The one hiding in the tree.

I wonder why though, is there any rezemblence between you two?

Iain
02-15-2009, 02:00 PM
For some reason you always remind me of this character IMI
Keiji Maeda, on the game that I played. The one hiding in the tree.


Jeez-come back from that one IMI!

IMI
02-15-2009, 02:18 PM
I wonder why though, is there any rezemblence between you two?

Yeah, the hair. :D

jasonwestmas
02-15-2009, 02:49 PM
Yeah Core better be the BEST! lol


uhh sorry wrong page.

frantbk
02-15-2009, 03:42 PM
Which is what we should ALL do since frankie is right about EVERYTHING. After all... he's pretty much the Almighty in human form. :angel:

Why do you think I would bother with a human form when I'm everywhere. :bowdown: to me :bowdown: :bowdown:

*Pete*
02-15-2009, 03:49 PM
Yeah, the hair. :D

thats why you cant get a job then, i guess....:D

IMI
02-15-2009, 04:37 PM
thats why you cant get a job then, i guess....:D

Yer a funny guy there, Pete. Anyone ever tell you that? :twak: :D