PDA

View Full Version : An Apology and Some Questions Answered



Pages : [1] 2

Jim Plant
02-05-2009, 08:55 AM
To the LightWave Community,

First off, I'd like to apologize to you for the way we handled the LightWave CORE presentation yesterday. We still don't know exactly what went wrong with the stream. (It wasn't a NewTek bandwidth issue; the NewTek website problem was something completely unrelated.) We were streaming from a non-NewTek location. The video was going out OK and UStream was receiving it, but for some reason we couldn't get it routed to our LightWave CORE reveal page. After working with the UStream tech guys for more than an hour, we finally gave up and routed it to a different page. Of course, we lost a lot of viewers in that switch over. I know the delay and the switch really annoyed a lot of people...and rightly so...and I'm very sorry we didn't get started on time.

As for the presentation...well, that obviously did not go as we had envisioned. There are lots of reasons for that, but the main reason is that we simply ran out of time. We had a choice to make to send it out as it was or delay the LightWave CORE Reveal for a day or two, and in the heat of the moment we obviously made the wrong call. We know we can do better, and we'll be posting more LightWave CORE videos in the very near future.

I take responsibility for these decisions, and I offer my humble apology to the LightWave community for not meeting your expectations with our LightWave CORE presentation.

Moving on: I think I've read almost every message on every forum, and I can see that we've confused some of you about our upcoming LightWave development plans. We'll clarify these issues on our site, but I'd like to take this opportunity to immediately address some of the questions about the new HardCORE program and future LightWave pricing.

Question 1: Is HardCORE a new subscription program for LightWave?
Answer 1: Yes, but it is not mandatory. You can still buy LightWave upgrades the way you always have in the past. It's an optional program that will allow you to interact more closely with our developers and participate in the development of LightWave CORE. It also provides early access to the LightWave CORE technology. There are other benefits, as well.

Question 2: How often do you plan to ship a major paid upgrade?
Answer 2: Development plans are just that....plans; but we do hope to ship major paid upgrades more often than we have in the past. The CORE architecture will give us the opportunity to innovate faster than we've been able to previously.

Question 3: Will I be forced to upgrade or punished if I don't upgrade?
Answer 3: No. Just as always, you can choose to upgrade whenever you want and there will be no penalty if you choose not to. You can skip as many upgrades as you want and still come back in at any time and purchase the current upgrade at the current upgrade price.

Question 4: Will bug fixes continue to be free?
Answer 4: Yes.

Question 5: Does the HardCORE program include the LightWave CORE, or do I have to pay extra when it ships?
Answer 5: It is included.

Question 6: What if you don't ship LightWave CORE in Q4 like you planned, and my HardCORE membership expires before you ship?
Answer 6: You'll still get it. We'll guarantee at least one paid upgrade with each annual HardCORE membership.

Question 7: How much will the HardCORE membership cost next year?
Answer 7: We don't know yet. It's hard to predict our future costs and prices, but it will likely be the same as it is this year.

Question 8: When can I sign up for HardCORE?
Answer 8: Soon...probably in the next day or two. We'll send out a notice as soon as sign-up is available.

Question 9: What if don't live in the United States, can I still sign up for HardCORE?
Answer 9: Yes, you can sign up directly with NewTek on our site. We should have all that ready in a day or two.

Question 10: What if the HardCORE membership start date means my membership runs out too soon?
Answer 10: We don't want you folks worrying about your memberships ticking away while we get the HardCORE Community area up and running for you.

So, we're going to make your official membership start date begin with the first CORE software build we deliver to you.

Don't worry about what it says in your registration. We'll reset that when the first CORE build ships.

And, thank you for signing up early and having some patience with us as we get everything set up for you.


OK, those are what I believe were the most asked questions in the forums I read. If you have any other questions, please post them here and I will try to answer them.

With Regards,

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.

cresshead
02-05-2009, 09:01 AM
thanks for the prompt nature of your response.

that's cleared up nr all the confusion.

cheers steve g

dgrigo
02-05-2009, 09:03 AM
Thanks so much for the explanations, clears up many things!
and thanks very much for thinking us foreigners.
all good :thumbsup:

JeffrySG
02-05-2009, 09:04 AM
Thanks so much for the follow up post. Most of the questions I had were just answered and it was nice to see the presentation issues addressed here.

I'm very excited about the future of LW and NT.

:rock::bowdown::bowdown::rock:

Going forward, congrats to everyone at NT for a great future!

DBMiller
02-05-2009, 09:07 AM
Thank you very much for the clear up. I really need that spelled out as I was trying to upgrade today. When I did finally see the presentation I was very excited to get involved!
Thanks again. DBM

Mark The Great
02-05-2009, 09:07 AM
Great news. You answered a lot of doubts that I had about the pricing and subscription.

Can't wait for Core!

Skonk
02-05-2009, 09:07 AM
Thanks for this, cleared everything up for me in one go there :)

Time to sit back and watch the orders roll in (and im not being sarcastic).

It does seem to me like buying into HardCORE is pretty much like pre-ordering but with a bunch of prezzies thrown in and a feelng of being special cos you get your own private space on the forum :)

Mark The Great
02-05-2009, 09:08 AM
Thanks for this, cleared everything up for me in one go there :)

Time to sit back and watch the orders roll in (and im not being sarcastic).

It does seem to me like buying into HardCORE is pretty much like pre-ordering but with a bunch of prezzies thrown in and a feelng of being special cos you get your own private space on the forum :)

Don't forget the shirt!

caccipergolo
02-05-2009, 09:09 AM
Thanks for these info.
Can't wait for next videos!

danchez
02-05-2009, 09:09 AM
ya rule newtek!
thanks jim
anyway... for european users, will it be available to download the purchase? (so we dont have to pay the shipping or buy through european distributors with their margin)

flakester
02-05-2009, 09:09 AM
Awesome news all round.
The ethos and the tech have me very, very excited.
Good job NT, and a big thanks for the clarification.

I have a very strong feeling that we'll be signing up at some point soon. :thumbsup:

--
flakester.

archijam
02-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Merci!

EXOSOUL
02-05-2009, 09:11 AM
Yes, thanks a lot for the clarification on this. Now I can make my decision if to go for hardcore or not.. So I guess I'll be signing up in a few days. :D

Skonk
02-05-2009, 09:12 AM
To be honest I think once the dust has settled most people will agree that the presentation it's self wasn't that bad.

It's just comments made during the frustrations of the delay (atleast thats how I felt anyway).

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 09:12 AM
Ok, this is even better then I thought and Jin will be very happy to hear that you can skip upgrades. I find this important as each upgrade may focus on areas that you are not interested in. Thank you Jim for the apology and for clarification. I've never used this smiley before :I_Love_Ne

LightWuv
02-05-2009, 09:13 AM
That's a lot of answers, thanks! :)

Looking forward to more info! :thumbsup:

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 09:13 AM
this was great post to read... i am ready to apply for subscription.

sadkkf
02-05-2009, 09:13 AM
Awesome. Thank you!

caccipergolo
02-05-2009, 09:14 AM
hrgiger, now you are officially a fanboy!

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 09:15 AM
Question 6: What if you don't ship LightWave CORE in Q4 like you planned, and my HardCORE subscription expires before you ship?
Answer 6: You'll still get it. We'll guarantee at least one paid upgrade with each annual HardCORE subscription.

Hi Jim,

Thank you for these very helpful responses. I'm still unclear on question 6 though. If I assume the worst, something happens and CORE doesn't ship until Q4 2010. My HardCORE subscription expires Q1 2010. So I've got to re-up another $495* to stay current with this version (via HardCORE). Is that correct? I really hope you'll consider version subscriptions rather than annual. In any event I'd appreciate this being clarified.

Thanks!

Pete
[Edit for clarity: I understand I get the final. I'm asking about staying current with the latest builds prior to final. *$495 or whatever it is at the time.]

colkai
02-05-2009, 09:15 AM
Nice and concise answers, should put many folks fears to rest.

JBT27
02-05-2009, 09:18 AM
Thank you.

That's gracious for the apology, and completely clear on the pricing now :)

Actually, on the presentation, given the two options you cite - show it now unfinished, or delay the countdown, personally I suspect you did do the right one.....a full-blown hyped countdown like that, then a delay.....hmmm, not sure, possibly a no-win :D

As is being said in other threads, and I think it needs saying louder, the actual content of the presentation was startling, not least that the whole thing kicks off in weeks.....anyone who doesn't appreciate that for what it says is either dead or stupid (or both).

Julian.

wp_capozzi
02-05-2009, 09:19 AM
Thanks for the answers! I'm looking forward to putting the Core to work.

One question that crossed my mind is - Will dongles remain the same?

scratch33
02-05-2009, 09:19 AM
Thanks...

and

lightwave CORE looks awesome. Good job.

:I_Love_Ne:lightwave

Frank_Geppert
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
OK, those are what I believe were the most asked questions in the forums I read. If you have any other questions, please post them here and I will try to answer them.

Thanks for clarification. I have one question left:

Will there be some kind of feature list, or feature comparison to LW9.6? Probably this is too early but when could we see something like that?

JMCarrigan
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
Big ahhhhhhhhh release sigh. Now I might be able to get sumpin' done around here. I hope ItsPete get's a favorable answer to his question.

Dirk
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
Thanks!

DennisVR
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
this does clear things up :)

kfiram
02-05-2009, 09:20 AM
THANK YOU!

:lightwave:I_Love_Ne

Count me in.

ben martin
02-05-2009, 09:21 AM
Many Thanks!! Count me IN... :thumbsup:

Andy Webb
02-05-2009, 09:21 AM
Thanks for the response, it's a real shame it didn't run smoothly at the end, but the new LightwaveCore sure looks good. :D

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 09:22 AM
- Will everybody who purchases Lightwave CORE have access to the SDK and documentation or is there a separate membership requirement for SDK developers? Will the licensing of the SDK be similar to what we already have with Lightwave v9, or will I need special permission to publish commercial plugins?

- Lightwave CORE uses the Qt toolkit for interface elements. Will plugin developers who publish commercial plugins have to pay a Qt license fee, or is the Qt license fee already covered by Newtek's license with the developers of Qt?

- What sort of licensing system will Lightwave CORE use? Will licenses be tied to dongles or to hardware? Can the license be moved? What brand of licensing system have you chosen? Again, I'm trying to determine whether Lightwave CORE shall offer me the flexibility that its competition does not.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 09:22 AM
hrgiger, now you are officially a fanboy!

Lol. That is honestly the first and probably last time I'll ever use that smiley. Unless of course Newtek builds into Core the ability to generate a flesh and blood Jessica Biel from 3D data.

Frank_Geppert
02-05-2009, 09:23 AM
OK, those are what I believe were the most asked questions in the forums I read. If you have any other questions, please post them here and I will try to answer them.

Thanks for clarification. I have one question left:

Will there be some kind of feature list, or feature comparison to LW9.6? Probably this is too early but when could we see something like that?

dnch
02-05-2009, 09:24 AM
im on this with JBT27 .. as bad as the presentation was, the delay would be much worst:)
and the new product looks briliant

caccipergolo
02-05-2009, 09:24 AM
lol!

Tobian
02-05-2009, 09:26 AM
Well now that's all over and done with and certain people can stop yelling about subscription fees, I look forward to more technology previews, and seeing the exciting future of LW-CORE!

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 09:26 AM
Can we make this thread sticky?

3DBob
02-05-2009, 09:27 AM
Thanks Jim,

I really think it is the right way to go... We have wanted to produce a Speech to morph pluging for Lightwave, but have been cautious. This modular approach and new direction make me glad we never started, but keen to develop.

There is another company that has lumbered itself with 3 large userbases and differring code bases. You have a real opportunity here to run leaner and faster.

Speaking to Andrew Shpagin today and he says he programs 3DCoat in C++ and his interface is in flux (not a programming language but a state of development). Would be great if his Voxel Sculpt, Retopology and painting modules could be made as CORE SDK modules and seemlessly integrated, that would kick ***. My team is using it with Lightwave to great effect making DX9/DX10 game characters at the moment.

However terrible the events of last night, I have to say the lead up was Awesome, best pre-marketing campaign yet and technology and the complexity of the change let you down.

The Image Refinery has been using LW for 15 years now..... bring on the next 15.

3DBob

The Dommo
02-05-2009, 09:27 AM
that's the shiznit, right there :dance:

AbnRanger
02-05-2009, 09:28 AM
This is not a question, but while you are here, Jim, I'd like to take the opportunity to both thank you and offer congratulations on the work Newtek has done on both fronts (new architecture and old).
I have to admit that I wasn't optimistic of LW's development path, but this announcement has changed that...180 degrees. I'm surprised and impressed.

I'm sure you and the rest of your staff have had to endure a lot of stress these past few years, but now comes paydirt. I am very excited to see that Newtek is back and that you indeed "mean business" this time.

Applause is in order :thumbsup:

cagey5
02-05-2009, 09:28 AM
Nice response, and I agree with others I think you made the right call on the day, the product looks like it's going to deliver a lot of past promises, and good also to see the pricing policy shows, though you're changing, you're still Newtek at the core.

Last thing.. When do we get the full breakdown of those clues and which ones we missed? ;)

dee
02-05-2009, 09:29 AM
- What sort of licensing system will Lightwave CORE use? Will licenses be tied to dongles or to hardware? Can the license be moved? What brand of licensing system have you chosen? Again, I'm trying to determine whether Lightwave CORE shall offer me the flexibility that its competition does not.

That's what I also want to know.

meatycheesyboy
02-05-2009, 09:30 AM
Hi Jim,

Thank you for these very helpful responses. I'm still unclear on question 6 though. If I assume the worst, something happens and CORE doesn't ship until Q4 2010. My HardCORE subscription expires Q1 2010. So I've got to re-up another $495* to stay current with this version (via HardCORE). Is that correct? I really hope you'll consider version subscriptions rather than annual. In any event I'd appreciate this being clarified.

Thanks!

Pete
[Edit for clarity: I understand I get the final. I'm asking about staying current with the latest builds prior to final. *$495 or whatever it is at the time.]

Answer #6 is still the most worrysome because it could mean two things. If a realease isn't going to make it in a year, they can either extend everyone's hardCore member ship until it does ship or (this is the bad one) they can release an incomplete paid upgrade just to appease subscription owners.

I hope it isn't the second thing but that may not have an immediate answer and may end up being a wait and see scenario.

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 09:31 AM
Yeah clue breakdown would be great. :)

deg
02-05-2009, 09:31 AM
No prob dude, stuff happens eh. Nature of life sometimes. No biggy on my end. I look forward to getting into the new stuff you guys have come up with. :)

Thanks, and all the best. :)

deg

kojean
02-05-2009, 09:32 AM
Great, informative post, Jim! Thank you for addressing many of the most pressing questions.

I look forward to seeing more extensive details in videos and write-ups with screengrabs.

I hope we will see as full a feature list as possible and demo videos before the March 31 Charter sign up deadline.

Will Charter members have any ongoing additional benefits or discounts compared to standard memberships after the first year?

juanjgon
02-05-2009, 09:34 AM
Thanks Jim, i am sure that soon we will have forgotten whats happened yesterday and will be happy with the future of LW :)

Lewis
02-05-2009, 09:35 AM
Excellent stuff and nice to hear sincere apology - way to ho Jim (NT). We all are sorry it didn't work as planned but i hope we all learned something out of this and it wont' happen in future :).

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 09:35 AM
Answer #6 is still the most worrysome because it could mean two things. If a realease isn't going to make it in a year, they can either extend everyone's hardCore member ship until it does ship or (this is the bad one) they can release an incomplete paid upgrade just to appease subscription owners.


They would almost have to extend the hardcore subscription. Because imagine this.

Feb 2009, you buy hardcore subcription. Feb 2010 still no Core version. So you buy your next year subscription. April 2010 core is release, but you get that because you paid last years subscription. April 2011 Core 2 is released. But wait, do they owe me 1 upgrade or two? Did I pay for this one already? Yes, I paid for it last time, or was it this time? Sh|t I can't remember. Can you imagine the flurry of emails and phone calls between NT and it's users? It would be a nightmare.

GandB
02-05-2009, 09:38 AM
I'm not sure if it's been asked yet, Jim; but is NewTek going to put more focus into Game Developers? Autodesk definately has this market cornered, and it is a LARGE market. Specifically different formats (Milkshape is commonly used as a converter for model formats); but especially for actual pipelines (animation is always tricky at times, depending on the engine being used).

I've thought about biting the bullet and going with 3DSMax, mainly because of the support for the Game industry...not as much because of functionality. If I spent that kind of money for a Max license, I doubt I'll have anything left for any version of LW (currently on 9.6).

I really think this is a "glossed over" issue. I see some advertising of games made using LW; but there is nothing there about the pipeline they use...so it's pretty much useless to us (the info on the game). If I'm not being clear enough, please let me know.

-Keith

zarti
02-05-2009, 09:39 AM
Amen....!

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 09:39 AM
Answer #6 is still the most worrysome because it could mean two things. If a realease isn't going to make it in a year, they can either extend everyone's hardCore member ship until it does ship or (this is the bad one) they can release an incomplete paid upgrade just to appease subscription owners.

I hope it isn't the second thing but that may not have an immediate answer and may end up being a wait and see scenario.

I'm sure I'll still personally jump in but annual subs make a tough business case. No.3 that I was getting at is they don't extend everyone's membership and you have to pay more to subscribe again. Don't know if that's better or worse than No.2. Hoping for No.1!

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 09:41 AM
They would almost have to extend the hardcore subscription. Because imagine this.

Feb 2009, you buy hardcore subcription. Feb 2010 still no Core version. So you buy your next year subscription. April 2010 core is release, but you get that because you paid last years subscription. April 2011 Core 2 is released. But wait, do they owe me 1 upgrade or two? Did I pay for this one already? Yes, I paid for it last time, or was it this time? Sh|t I can't remember. Can you imagine the flurry of emails and phone calls between NT and it's users? It would be a nightmare.

I think that's our point and it's not spelled out this way.

wyattharris
02-05-2009, 09:42 AM
This is why...
:I_Love_Ne

pumeco
02-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Lol. That is honestly the first and probably last time I'll ever use that smiley. Unless of course Newtek builds into Core the ability to generate a flesh and blood Jessica Biel from 3D data.

Hang about, with the new architecture we probably could do that :D

digitalrelm
02-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Thanks so much for clearing all that up. Can't wait for CORE!

AbnRanger
02-05-2009, 09:43 AM
They would almost have to extend the hardcore subscription. Because imagine this.

Feb 2009, you buy hardcore subcription. Feb 2010 still no Core version. So you buy your next year subscription. April 2010 core is release, but you get that because you paid last years subscription. April 2011 Core 2 is released. But wait, do they owe me 1 upgrade or two? Did I pay for this one already? Yes, I paid for it last time, or was it this time? Sh|t I can't remember. Can you imagine the flurry of emails and phone calls between NT and it's users? It would be a nightmare.It will cover the release SUBSEQUENT to your purchase. That's not too confusing, is it?

Sarford
02-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Thanks for the apologies.

Core looks awsome to me. I can't wait to get my (some say grubby but they are rather clean) hands on it. Very curious how you guys handled animation, and if all parameters are animatable.

Am I right to presume that by being a hardCORE member you get to 'influence' development with sugestions through the special forum, to be in contact with the developers themselves so to speak?

cresshead
02-05-2009, 09:43 AM
i'm in...just plonked down the cash via paypal...now where's that download button!:D

you gotta try it to evaluate properly it right?

wyattharris
02-05-2009, 09:44 AM
I really think this is a "glossed over" issue. I see some advertising of games made using LW; but there is nothing there about the pipeline they use...so it's pretty much useless to us (the info on the game). If I'm not being clear enough, please let me know.
Totally agree. You see the adverts of this game or that game made with LW but its such a twisted Google treasure hunt to figure out HOW something was done.

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 09:45 AM
It will cover the release SUBSEQUENT to your purchase. That's not too confusing, is it?

It's not only about the release. It's about having to pony up another subscription or be stuck with a 6 month old beta before the final is out.

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Thanks Jim, i am sure that soon we will have forgotten whats happened yesterday and will be happy with the future of LW :)

i already did.. actually i rmmbr only good things :)

biliousfrog
02-05-2009, 09:45 AM
Thanks Jim, great response.

+1 for a full feature breakdown. I'm really hoping that the 999 render license is still included along with Linux...that's a HUGE selling point for most studios, especially larger ones. I hate paying £100 for an OS just to run screamernet.

GandB
02-05-2009, 09:48 AM
Totally agree. You see the adverts of this game or that game made with LW but its such a twisted Google treasure hunt to figure out HOW something was done.
Thanks; glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this is important, both for us Game Devs as well as for :newtek:

-Keith

pumeco
02-05-2009, 09:49 AM
i'm in...just plonked down the cash via paypal...now where's that download button!:D

you gotta try it to evaluate properly it right?

I'd be in as well if only NewTek would answer the FiberFactory thing!

OlaHaldor
02-05-2009, 09:49 AM
Great answers - cleared some questions of mine, and makes me REALLY wanna be able to afford HardCORE. :) *work harder, play less - sigh*

Nicolas Jordan
02-05-2009, 09:50 AM
We had a choice to make to send it out as it was or delay the LightWave CORE Reveal for a day or two, and in the heat of the moment we obviously made the wrong call.

I don't think you made the wrong call. I think any call you could have made wouldn't have been a good one. I actually think it would have been even worse to delay the CORE presentation longer after that much of a build up instead of putting out the substandard presentation. The decision to go ahead with it was the right one given the situation.

robk
02-05-2009, 09:51 AM
Jim

I guess my only question is. Is NT's goal for Q4 to get us a core version of 9.6 i.e. new interface and core but with the same general capabilities as 9.6 (of course with all the new UI changes.) but not a lot of new features in regaurds to rendering, lighting, CA tools or will we be getting a lot of new technology in these areas? Instancing being one such item.

I know Worley for instance only releases product when a version is locked in so we wouldn't get anything from him untill Q4?

Mind you it is an exciting thought for me to have FPRIME and HD instance working together. Only I don't know if Steve and Graham will even update their software for core. The instancing shown in the presentation looked very primitive like Kray's or Modo's and HD Instace is soooo much more than that.

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 09:53 AM
i'm in...just plonked down the cash via paypal...now where's that download button!:D

you gotta try it to evaluate properly it right?

where we can order... i want to do so now too

CAClark
02-05-2009, 09:53 AM
Thanks for the apologies.

Core looks awsome to me. I can't wait to get my (some say grubby but they are rather clean) hands on it. Very curious how you guys handled animation, and if all parameters are animatable.

Am I right to presume that by being a hardCORE member you get to 'influence' development with sugestions through the special forum, to be in contact with the developers themselves so to speak?

That would be a hope, as things were claimed to be simple in the 9.x cycle, and that they could be implimented easily, yet never were.

That aside, things look more promising now than ever since LW6.

Cheers!

dmack
02-05-2009, 09:54 AM
OK, great that bugfixes will continue to be free. SO, apart from the subscription model that is optional, it looks like business as usual except more regular updates (paid) which is cool because I assume they'll be adding more cool features faster than before. All in all, I'm ok with this now. I'm still not ready to sign up and hand over any cash without seeing a lot more than I have so far.....

Dennik
02-05-2009, 09:56 AM
At the end the final product is that matters the most so any presentation can't ruin that.

I think NT is headed in the right direction and i'm looking forward to the Core development. Looks like its going to be a very exciting year!

Skonk
02-05-2009, 09:57 AM
With the new SDK, Python and ability to add other languages i'm quite excited to see what the community will do with it once it's out in public.

The lightwave community has always been one of it's strongest "features" imo.

biliousfrog
02-05-2009, 10:02 AM
I guess another question is...

Will existing plugins work? There are many great plugins that haven't even ported to 64bit yet and I'd hate to leave behind a load more.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:05 AM
It will cover the release SUBSEQUENT to your purchase. That's not too confusing, is it?
Maybe not for the first year or two, but eventually if that pattern kept up, it would become unmanageable.

cresshead
02-05-2009, 10:08 AM
where we can order... i want to do so now too

http://register.newtek.com/

hiespike
02-05-2009, 10:13 AM
Thank you for acknowledging the mistake of this core reveal. The reason I think that a lot of us are upset by it is that as Lightwave users, everything Newtek does reflects on us. So, when a presentation looks horrible, is badly written, created unprofessionally, and executed badly....everyone in the CG industry looks at us an laughs. Lightwave still isn't taken seriously in the community and this is an example as to why.

What I hope you will do. I hope that Newtek will hire some professionals to put together a new video with professional recorded voice-over and high-resolution screen captures. This should be a polished video with feature highlights, interface and functionality previews, "good looking" examples that are well thought out, some nice renders (please!), no bad CG like the environment yesterdays video was shown in, throw in a hot female spokesperson just for fun. My point is that you have to create a professional piece in HD (quicktime or flash) and host it on the Core site if you want the ENTIRE CG industry to take you (and us) seriously.

To create a professional video like that with motion graphics and music and vo and great edition shouldn't cost you more than $20K or so, and it would be a good investment for the future of your company.

My two cents.

Sarford
02-05-2009, 10:17 AM
I guess another question is...

Will existing plugins work? There are many great plugins that haven't even ported to 64bit yet and I'd hate to leave behind a load more.

I don't know ofcourse but I would think not. LW Core was build from the ground up, meaning a totaly new code base, which propably functions quite different internaly than the old base.

For me that realy isn't a big problem. Given the choise betwen a new and lean code base and a 'backward compatible' code base just to keep my plug-ins running, I would choose the first. Remember that you can always go back to 9.6 if you have special need for a specific plug-in.

Part of the reason of the new code base was, in my opinion, to make some plug-ins redundant because now you can do it inside the main program?

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:20 AM
Would it be silly for me to suggest that Newtek at least consult with an outside marketing firm to improve their marketing strategies? I mean don't get me wrong, the whole core site and build-up was great and it got people talking. But then the execution in the end fell flat. I remember a few years back, all you heard people complaining about was Lightwave documentation. Now it's Newtek marekting.

evolross
02-05-2009, 10:30 AM
Agreed, MUCH better to play a bad presentation than delay!

Davoid
02-05-2009, 10:36 AM
Jim, just one question before placing order. Does the release of Core (beta) have all the functionality of 9.6 or is it just say a modeler now and will be added to up to the final release version?

if this has already been answered, I apologize.

David

meatycheesyboy
02-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Thank you for acknowledging the mistake of this core reveal.

I didn't mention this in my earlier post, but yes, thank you for the apology. It is always refreshing when companies own up to their mistakes and is always appreciated by me.

nmh
02-05-2009, 10:42 AM
Thank you for apology and explanation. Of course there are some more questions about USB dongle and SDK and gamedev..
And thank you that we from Europe (and other non US coutries) can buy CORE from Newtek site so we don't have to contact local (expensiver) reseler :thumbsup:

StOuen
02-05-2009, 10:47 AM
I am so excited I wee'd a bit. Thanks for the clarification and I can't wait to get signed up.

wfstecko
02-05-2009, 10:48 AM
Thanks for the apology, explanation, and clarifications. My order is placed!

Walter

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Thanks so much for the follow up post. Most of the questions I had were just answered and it was nice to see the presentation issues addressed here.

I'm very excited about the future of LW and NT.

:rock::bowdown::bowdown::rock:

Going forward, congrats to everyone at NT for a great future!My thoughts exactly. I appreciate the follow up and still excited for LW CORE. Congratulations to the NT team in what you've accomplished.

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Will the Core released in the next few weeks be able to do everything the current LW can (animate, render, HV, Node Texturing, morphs)?
Will FPrime, LWCAD, TrueArt & Pictrix plugins work in Core?
Will the full Core SDK be released to all hardCore members?
Do we need to get a Qt license to use the Core SDK?


The Qt licensing is significant to me as a developer.
Currently Qt has a free GPL license that mandates you open source your code - which means you can't sell it.

The Qt Commercial development license costs $1200/year.
Novia has said they will release a free LGPL license which is a bit more forgiving but that hasn't happened yet.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:59 AM
Question 4: Will bug fixes continue to be free?
Answer 4: Yes.



Wait...there's going to be bugs?

cagey5
02-05-2009, 11:03 AM
I think they'll just program a few in to keep the hardcore busy and feel involved until the next release date comes round.. ;)

Wickster
02-05-2009, 11:05 AM
Thank you for this post Mr. Jim :)
Can't wait for more details to start showing up here. Count me in the Core (I'm saving up as we speak).

Thanks; glad to know I'm not the only one who thinks this is important, both for us Game Devs as well as for :newtek:

-Keith
From the presentation, Jay did say that the LightWave file format is being replaced by COLLADA as the default format. I guess that's a start for Game Devs using COLLADA as the main formats.

Bog
02-05-2009, 11:08 AM
Jim, thank you. That's cleared up just about all my major worries.

I'll be chucking my credit card into the ring, that's for sure.

johnliebler
02-05-2009, 11:14 AM
Thanks for the straight talk, Jim. That's the kind of professionalism we can all respect. Bring on the CORE!

John

RedRowan
02-05-2009, 11:15 AM
Thanks for the clarification. After having time to read trough the details on the Core page toady I am quite excited about Lightwave's future.

Steve

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 11:16 AM
Wait...there's going to be bugs?

What planet are you from?



;)

KevinL
02-05-2009, 11:17 AM
Greetings,
I'm one of the certain people who groaned about subscription plans. I have had NASTY experiences with them in the past. That said, now that it is clarified, I am very good with the pricing setup that NewTek has put forth. They have offered a plan that I am very comfortable with. Just like the ability to have modeler and Layout separate in CORE, they have offered the best of both worlds and I'm good with that.

Now if I can get an idea of exactly what CORE will be "out of the box" I will be trying to bug past due clients :)

Kevin L

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 11:17 AM
What planet are you from?



;)

Planet SARCASM.

adamredwoods
02-05-2009, 11:20 AM
Here's my question:

What are Lightwave Core's technical capabilities and workflow going to be like?

I know that question will not get answered right away, but that is my current question.

The presentation demo'd a work-in-progress, which is cool, but won't sway me from LW9.6 just yet. I'd like to see modeling tools, workflow, surfacing workflow, animation capabilities, timeline keys management, etc, etc.

And what will the first release of LWCore offer? THe same things as LW9.6 or is there a chance things will be missing?

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 11:22 AM
Update-This just in.

Jin is in.

WillBellJr
02-05-2009, 11:23 AM
Well I have to say, perhaps we all should have known the sites were going to go down when that page started shaking! :jester:

The Newtek Core Meltdown - I don't think any of us will EVER forget yesterday and what went down!

I know one thing that zebra-stripe panel HAS to be in the new program icon somewhere / in some way!

I'm sorry I haven't grabbed a copy of it and used it in everything as apparently everyone else has! :rock:

Lightwave was the ONLY program I've ever lusted over having so even after the presentation meltdown, I knew I was staying right here.
(...And even without the presentation.)

Jim's post has single-handedly repaired what took place yesterday and frankly, if it was just him sitting in a comfortable chair on a stage talking with say Oprah (nah, Kiki) that would have served the purpose just fine!


Anyway, can't wait till the new code is dropped, of course I'm buying in early for my favorite 3D app! :thumbsup:

-Will

PS - +1 vote for the Game Developers - any coding or special consideration added to Core to help our cause is GREATLY appreciated! :help:

jin choung
02-05-2009, 11:24 AM
w00t!!!

thank you so much for a single, clear, definitive and authoritative post that should eliminate all confusion.

core looks good and smart and promising and thank goodness newtek policy is as as it ever was - cool.

i am in.

jin

Frank_Geppert
02-05-2009, 11:26 AM
Thank you for this post Mr. Jim :)
Can't wait for more details to start showing up here. Count me in the Core (I'm saving up as we speak).

From the presentation, Jay did say that the LightWave file format is being replaced by COLLADA as the default format. I guess that's a start for Game Devs using COLLADA as the main formats.

I also would like to underline the importance of supporting game devs. There are some interesting features to do so like
- real-time shaders in the 3d-windows (with normal-spec mapping)
- plus visual shader-editor
- baking of normal maps (from textures and highpoly geometry)
- baking of light maps
- real-time shadows

But first I am also interested how LW Core compares to 9.6

beverins
02-05-2009, 11:31 AM
You are a big man, Jim, for such an apology. There is no other CEO of any graphics software company who would have the testosterone for that. You cleared up a lot of questions.

Just don't fire anyone. :-) Maybe have another contest for hardCORE'ers to make a demo video that even Autodesk / Maxon / Lu-{company that shall not be named} can cry into their beer over. Free Sub for the best video. Worth it?

beverins
02-05-2009, 11:33 AM
And plpease have a meeting to hammer out the EDU pricing soon. I'd love for my university to get LWCore asap. Beta's are fine, its how students learn.

andywright
02-05-2009, 11:34 AM
Wait...there's going to be bugs?

Don't worry, they will throw them in for free :D

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 11:36 AM
Don't worry, they will throw them in for free :D

That's a relief to see that they haven't' changed their pricing policy on that.

waverguy
02-05-2009, 11:37 AM
w00t!!!

thank you so much for a single, clear, definitive and authoritative post that should eliminate all confusion.

core looks good and smart and promising and thank goodness newtek policy is as as it ever was - cool.

i am in.

jin

:agree::agree::agree::agree::thumbsup:

Wade
02-05-2009, 11:44 AM
Jim, just one question before placing order. Does the release of Core (beta) have all the functionality of 9.6 or is it just say a modeler now and will be added to up to the final release version?

if this has already been answered, I apologize.

David

2nd

nino73
02-05-2009, 11:49 AM
Ok, I'll speak up for the one or two of us that are brand new to all of this.....I mean the few who just got into the whole 3D thing, decided and bought LW, and alllllll the tutorials and allllll extras. There are a bundle of us that are going from Photoshop or our paints and pencils to 3D to improve our work (yes, we work).......were not gammers, video people... or even give a hoot about the "architecture" of the internal workings of our silly box of wires. Im not a programmer, dont know C+++++ or whatever it is, or write scripts or have time too. Im an artist/designer/creative who makes pretty pictures of things and sells them to the masses as product development for a living...and have been for 20+ years. LW is a program I decided to purchase because of its history and "reputation?" to make photorealistic depictions of my work and clients ideas....thats it. After spending the days and hours with the whole Core song and dance.....my question is WHAT THE HECK IS IT?. I know that this is making alot of you laugh, but lets put out in layman's terms. Can we see it? Whats the purpose? Can we see what the program looks like?and "IS" it a new version of LW. What does 'it" do?.....not gimme another $400 bucks for something were still figuring out. And oh yeh....we dont even know when it will ship!

.....maybe I should have bought Modo...
....at least I wouldn't of spent time and money on FPrime, node packages and extra programs, plugins, upgrades to fix upgrades oh yeh and best of all, spent the untold weeks restarting crash after crash after crash after crash while my client taps his fingers waiting for their work.

Yes I do have faith in LW but has anyone taken a look around outside of the cubicles and forums.......make it do EVERYTHING better than the competitions products combined NO exceptions...in one working program....all questions answered. Thats what we the consumer are looking for.
A good marketing gimmic is just that.

meatycheesyboy
02-05-2009, 11:50 AM
Wait...there's going to be bugs?

This means they're going to have to change the way they've been doing things. It seems like 'maintanence only' releases always have features snuck in. If they are going to start charging for new feature point releases but keep bug fixes free, they're going to have make sure they actually do bug fix only releases unlike now.

LightWuv
02-05-2009, 12:04 PM
Wait...there's going to be bugs?

I love planet sarcasm, my mother's from there originally :D


w00t!!!

[happy snip]

i am in.

jin

Jin is my mood canary in the LightWave mine :D

Nobody bltch! If Jin says it's good enough, then it's good enough! :agree:


(Hope you don't mind, Jin - been appreciating your insights for a while, and the fact that you have a sense of humor to go with it!)

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 12:07 PM
Now we just need some more screenshots and videos.

Matt
02-05-2009, 12:10 PM
Appreciate the apology Jim.

Verlon
02-05-2009, 12:15 PM
Yes I do have faith in LW but has anyone taken a look around outside of the cubicles and forums.......make it do EVERYTHING better than the competitions products combined NO exceptions...in one working program....all questions answered. Thats what we the consumer are looking for.
A good marketing gimmic is just that.


Yeah...just whip up a maya-killer real quick, and could you build CS4 functionality into it too? No sense in a separate app. In fact, I want to have just one big button that makes exactly what I was thinking, only even cooler.

Maybe one slider so I can increase and decrease the mysteriousness, and +/- keys to make it twice as big and twice as far away (and half/half for the minus).

And throw in a date with at least third base privileges with Scarlet Johansen.

All for $29.95 (with special upgrade pricing for previous owners).

No rush or anything, tomorrow will be fine.


Sorry, but if were that easy, everyone would be doing it.

Dirk
02-05-2009, 12:22 PM
WHAT THE HECK IS IT?

I would say with CORE, Lightwave becomes a development framework that will be very attractive for many ppl.

However, I really would like to see how the workflows are and what new tools we get, and what old tools have been thrown over board.

JMCarrigan
02-05-2009, 12:24 PM
w00t!!!

thank you so much for a single, clear, definitive and authoritative post that should eliminate all confusion.

core looks good and smart and promising and thank goodness newtek policy is as as it ever was - cool.

i am in.

jin

Without any sarcasm, I am glad you're in Jin.:thumbsup:

JMCarrigan
02-05-2009, 12:25 PM
I love planet sarcasm, my mother's from there originally :D



Jin is my mood canary in the LightWave mine :D

Nobody bltch! If Jin says it's good enough, then it's good enough! :agree:


(Hope you don't mind, Jin - been appreciating your insights for a while, and the fact that you have a sense of humor to go with it!)

Dit and I might add Toe

shaun_michael
02-05-2009, 12:27 PM
... for european users, will it be available to download the purchase? (so we dont have to pay the shipping or buy through european distributors with their margin)

I hope so, it doesn't let you pay shipping, so it must be a download, no? Can't wait to download my new T-Shirt too

Shaun

rakker16mm
02-05-2009, 12:29 PM
As for the presentation...well, that obviously did not go as we had envisioned. There are lots of reasons for that, but the main reason is that we simply ran out of time. We had a choice to make to send it out as it was or delay the LightWave CORE Reveal for a day or two, and in the heat of the moment we obviously made the wrong call. We know we can do better, and we'll be posting more LightWave CORE videos in the very near future.

I take responsibility for these decisions, and I offer my humble apology to the LightWave community for not meeting your expectations with our LightWave CORE presentation.

In my humble opinion you made the right decision in going ahead with the presentation. After all this is about the software. Am I right? In a few weeks or days most people won't remember the technical glitches, or bloopers. It will be about what we can do with the software and from here it looks like we will be able to do a lot of really interesting new things.

James

Dirk
02-05-2009, 12:37 PM
It will be about what we can do with the software and from here it looks like we will be able to do a lot of really interesting new things.

James

Actually, I was looking around at CGTalk and theLux forums, and that's exactly what's what' already discussed.

However, this presentation might have repelled at least one or two potential customers.

wyattharris
02-05-2009, 12:39 PM
After spending the days and hours with the whole Core song and dance.....my question is WHAT THE HECK IS IT?
That's a really good question and to put in laymen-minus-techie terms... lemme think for a second. ;)

Basically it's a full-featured all-in-one CG package. LW has always included every tool you needed for full production in one box, CORE looks to be the same. If you are already using LW then you are already familiar with it's unique approach to CG. Without getting extremely techie I think the biggest change is that Layout and Modeler will be integrated now. I take that to mean that we can now model on the timeline instead of working with static models in Layout and having to use morph targets.

Everything else I can think of sounds like "Python this" and "SDK that". So I'll leave it to everyone else now.

Earl
02-05-2009, 12:40 PM
First off, I'd like to apologize to you for the way we handled the LightWave CORE presentation yesterday. We still don't know exactly what went wrong with the stream. (It wasn't a NewTek bandwidth issue; the NewTek website problem was something completely unrelated.)

With Regards,

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.
Thanks Jim. While I think all LWer's were disappointed with the way the presentation went, it was mostly because we were so hyped to see all the CORE goodness. I'm glad to know that it wasn't us on the forums that resulted in the failure (I was starting to feel guilty!). In the end, the goods behind CORE are there and we all know it.

Thanks also for the clear answers to the questions posed. Those were the right answers, and as such you'll be getting my "subscription" to HardCORE as soon as the site will accept it. I'm sure many others will be signed up too. I'm very pleased that NewTek is planning more aggressive development of LightWave 3D. This can only be good for us end users.

Wade
02-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Ok, I'll speak up for the one or two of us that are brand new to all of this.....I mean the few who just got into the whole 3D thing, decided and bought LW, and alllllll the tutorials and allllll extras. There are a bundle of us that are going from Photoshop or our paints and pencils to 3D to improve our work (yes, we work).......were not gammers, video people... or even give a hoot about the "architecture" of the internal workings of our silly box of wires. Im not a programmer, dont know C+++++ or whatever it is, or write scripts or have time too. Im an artist/designer/creative who makes pretty pictures of things and sells them to the masses as product development for a living...and have been for 20+ years. LW is a program I decided to purchase because of its history and "reputation?" to make photorealistic depictions of my work and clients ideas....thats it. After spending the days and hours with the whole Core song and dance.....my question is WHAT THE HECK IS IT?. I know that this is making alot of you laugh, but lets put out in layman's terms. Can we see it? Whats the purpose? Can we see what the program looks like?and "IS" it a new version of LW. What does 'it" do?.....not gimme another $400 bucks for something were still figuring out. And oh yeh....we dont even know when it will ship!

.....maybe I should have bought Modo...
....at least I wouldn't of spent time and money on FPrime, node packages and extra programs, plugins, upgrades to fix upgrades oh yeh and best of all, spent the untold weeks restarting crash after crash after crash after crash while my client taps his fingers waiting for their work.

Yes I do have faith in LW but has anyone taken a look around outside of the cubicles and forums.......make it do EVERYTHING better than the competitions products combined NO exceptions...in one working program....all questions answered. Thats what we the consumer are looking for.
A good marketing gimmic is just that.

I hear you, but one thing that gives me faith in NT and LW and Core is that while Core is nearing release they have been adding tones of fixes and stuff to LW and looks like they will keep de-buggin it. So what that tells me is they are a class act and will treat the user well as core moves forward. You have time to make the move as Lightwave is and will be very usable for years yet - at least for me. I plan on plunking down the 395 myself for the Core upgrade and using LW until I am up and running with Core. I think they have LEAP FROGGED with core yet we have a newly updated and still being worked on LW 9.6.

Class act in terms of treatment of customer.

W.

Ztreem
02-05-2009, 12:42 PM
Jim: No apology necessary, not for me anyway. I know that sometimes things doesn't go the way you planned, especially when it comes to computers and internet. The core presentation was a blast and I'm really looking forward to play with the core. Thanks for clarifying the price and membership thing.

Wade
02-05-2009, 12:43 PM
and as such you'll be getting my "subscription" to HardCORE as soon as the site will accept it. I'm sure many others will be signed up too. I'm very pleased that NewTek is planning more aggressive development of LightWave 3D. This can only be good for us end users.



I think you can now on your registration page enter user name passwork click on Core icon...... 395.00

andywright
02-05-2009, 12:48 PM
I think the important thing now is to get more information out to us on the features of Core, perhaps a comparison chart with 9.6 and some more videos of its capabilities. The Core FAQ page is still quite light on the included features.

The worst thing that can happen after the marketing buildup and slightly let down reveal would be a vacuum.

I am in, and a Harcore member now, I just want to get my hands on it to start playing :thumbsup:

Nigel Baker
02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
Well I have put the CASH down and am eager to see what its really like.
I have one question.
DONGLE.

Will CORE be needing a DONGLE.
I hope not, really, but does anyone know just yet.

Looking forward to seeing some high quality video and all the other stuff,
well that is life and can just what happen.

Apologies very welcomed for it is very important to never leave the community in the dark about basic issues.


Regards,
Nigel



.

andywright
02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
I hear you, but one thing that gives me faith in NT and LW and Core is that while Core is nearing release they have been adding tones of fixes and stuff to LW and looks like they will keep de-buggin it. So what that tells me is they are a class act and will treat the user well as core moves forward. You have time to make the move as Lightwave is and will be very usable for years yet - at least for me. I plan on plunking down the 395 myself for the Core upgrade and using LW until I am up and running with Core. I think they have LEAP FROGGED with core yet we have a newly updated and still being worked on LW 9.6.

Class act in terms of treatment of customer.

W.

I agree :-)

Also Core is clearly a big investment in time and effort to redo the code from the ground up. I hope this means it will use the hardware and OS much more efficiently, and we will see a lot faster development of features with a new code base designed and understood by the current development team. :)

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Well I have put the CASH down and am eager to see what its really like.
I have one question.
DONGLE.

Will CORE be needing a DONGLE.
I hope not, really, but does anyone know just yet.

Looking forward to seeing some high quality video and all the other stuff,
well that is life and can just what happen.

Apologies very welcomed for it is very important to never leave the community in the dark about basic issues.


Regards,
Nigel



.You're :screwy:. I love the ability to take LW with me on any machine just by bringing the dongle. NT DO NOT LISTEN TO HIS MAN.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 01:10 PM
Can I specify how my $395 is spent. I'd like $20 to go to Jay Roth, $40 for Lightwave R+D, $40 for the rest of the LW development team. The other $300 can be split up between Irene and Kiki.

cresshead
02-05-2009, 01:12 PM
Can I specify how my $395 is spent. I'd like $20 to go to Jay Roth, $40 for Lightwave R+D, $40 for the rest of the LW development team. The other $300 can be split up between Irene and Kiki.

:D..sounds about right to me!:agree:

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 01:14 PM
Can I specify how my $395 is spent. I'd like $20 to go to Jay Roth, $40 for Lightwave R+D, $40 for the rest of the LW development team. The other $300 can be split up between Irene and Kiki.lol. Who's KiKi?

Titus
02-05-2009, 01:17 PM
lol. Who's KiKi?

Dude!

http://www.warp11.com/kikistockhammer.htm

jin choung
02-05-2009, 01:19 PM
Hope you don't mind, Jin

why would i mind?

although i'm pretty sure that newtek is quite distressed that i serve as anyone's "mood canary", i'm quite happy to chirp away as we dig.

and thanks for the kind words.

jin

jin choung
02-05-2009, 01:22 PM
Dude!

http://www.warp11.com/kikistockhammer.htm

she has such an evocative name... i always try to do something with it like, "she could stock my hammer any time" or "i'd like to stock her hammer" but it always sounds somewhat forced and elicits imagery of warehouses and construction yards which is not the intended effect... must work on it....

jin

Captain Obvious
02-05-2009, 01:22 PM
- baking of normal maps (from textures and highpoly geometry)
- baking of light maps
You can already do that in 9.6.

bandito
02-05-2009, 01:26 PM
Don't worry about the presentation. Not important. Its all good news.
Hopefully it will be stable and fast and we'll be happy. Looking forward to a better way of getting work done.

GandB
02-05-2009, 01:26 PM
I love the ability to take LW with me on any machine just by bringing the dongle. NT DO NOT LISTEN TO HIS MAN.
Uh; am I wrong in assuming that dongle or not, you need to install the program on any computer first? You know...the same way you would do it with Max, and then just type in your code?

I agree with the no dongle issue as well.

RollerJesus
02-05-2009, 01:27 PM
You can already do that in 9.6.

Not without using unsupported, non-Newtek tools.

jin choung
02-05-2009, 01:30 PM
You're :screwy:. I love the ability to take LW with me on any machine just by bringing the dongle. NT DO NOT LISTEN TO HIS MAN.

actually, i hope they go with net activation. zbrush and adobe do this and it's great. never have to worry about losing or shorting out your dongle and you just have to activate over the net once through your personal account and then when you leave a job or whatever, just de-activate from a menu option in the app. you generally get 3 install points. you activate, you lose a point, you deactivate, you get it back.

imo, really associating your product with the person with a personal account gives you a real sense of ownership and membership and that is as good a way to prevent piracy as a hardware dongle. i love it how i can go to the adobe site and see all the products registered to me (also true of the newtek site).

actually, i hope this next lw is more networky in general... so things like updates will be handled by an automatic update manager... stuff like itunes and deep exploration and steam and yes, even windows, has exposed me to the auto updates and i have developed a taste for it.

much more idiot proof too and i have screwed up far too many previous installations of lw by installing new ones etc.

jin

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 01:33 PM
she has such an evocative name... i always try to do something with it like, "she could stock my hammer any time" or "i'd like to stock her hammer" but it always sounds somewhat forced and elicits imagery of warehouses and construction yards which is not the intended effect... must work on it....

jin

How hangs the stockhammer? It's stockhammer time? The last ones probably about right because I'd probably just get a lot of 'you can't touch this' from her.

jin choung
02-05-2009, 01:37 PM
How hangs the stockhammer? It's stockhammer time? The last ones probably about right because I'd probably just get a lot of 'you can't touch this' from her.

i dunno... from that link, her hit song is "to boldly go down on me" so uhhhh... "engage".
: )

jin

mattclary
02-05-2009, 01:44 PM
Jim: No apology necessary, not for me anyway. I know that sometimes things doesn't go the way you planned, especially when it comes to computers and internet. The core presentation was a blast and I'm really looking forward to play with the core. Thanks for clarifying the price and membership thing.

Agreed. While I appreciate the apology, it is completely unnecessary IMO. Sh1t happens then you BSOD.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 01:46 PM
i dunno... from that link, her hit song is "to boldly go down on me" so uhhhh... "engage".
: )

jin

Yeah, I was quite intriqued by the playlists.

dballesg
02-05-2009, 02:01 PM
Hi,

Thanks for the apology to Mr Jim Plant.

BTW I think you need to avoid the bad image that marketing produce over development so many times, now and in the past. That video didn't showed AT ALL what a nice piece of software CORE can be. And this is technical problems aside.

After that video yesterday I was really embarrassed and furious. And sadly I have a lot of character! ;)

I talked to Chuck, and Ben, and with another big bunch of users we got a chat that was very interesting. Enlightening I will say.

Even I met a very nice group of LW users, exchanged contacts and learned a lot from them as individuals.

Chuck and Ben deserve a place in heaven and a rise in salary.

That is my last word about this issue.

On the other side i would like to know if the license of CORE would be easily transferable like jin was asking, from my tower to my laptop and back to my tower. Now with the dongle it is a breeze do that.

David


actually, i hope they go with net activation. zbrush and adobe do this and it's great.

jin

[OFF TOPIC]

Jin,

Looks like you do not have installed ZBrush on a system with RAID disks. Their protection schema goes bonkers with it and it will only recognize your activation 50% of the times you try to use it.

Pixologic is aware of that, but they didn't managed to make the guys that made the protection system to fix it.

In fact it took me 3 days of email with supoport to get a partial activation code, that as I said only works 50% of the time.

When it fails I need to reboot the machine to make it work.

David

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 02:07 PM
actually, i hope they go with net activation. zbrush and adobe do this and it's great. never have to worry about losing or shorting out your dongle and you just have to activate over the net once through your personal account and then when you leave a job or whatever, just de-activate from a menu option in the app. you generally get 3 install points. you activate, you lose a point, you deactivate, you get it back.

imo, really associating your product with the person with a personal account gives you a real sense of ownership and membership and that is as good a way to prevent piracy as a hardware dongle. i love it how i can go to the adobe site and see all the products registered to me (also true of the newtek site).

actually, i hope this next lw is more networky in general... so things like updates will be handled by an automatic update manager... stuff like itunes and deep exploration and steam and yes, even windows, has exposed me to the auto updates and i have developed a taste for it.

much more idiot proof too and i have screwed up far too many previous installations of lw by installing new ones etc.

jinBelieve me, I really like how Adobe has done activation/deactivation, but that's in comparison to companies like AutoDesk. I found that out when I had to try and deactivate my Maya so I could put it to another machine (not terribly bad, but not as easy as CS4).

But I still like the dongle because I'm not limited to the number of machines, only to having the dongle or not. Still better in my opinion. I've been using LW for 9 years now, and I've never lost or shorted out my dongle.

Derrick_SA
02-05-2009, 02:13 PM
The Dongle method is king, please don't change that!


I think I'm gonna get a membership, I can't wait till Q4 to see what's up! I'll go nuts,


Derrick

LAV
02-05-2009, 02:21 PM
ya rule newtek!
thanks jim
anyway... for european users, will it be available to download the purchase? (so we dont have to pay the shipping or buy through european distributors with their margin)

and... (as directly asked to NT with an e-mail)... same is the offer for the upgrade of an academic licence? Is it planned an academic licence?

Many thanks for the new addictive way, NT.

jin choung
02-05-2009, 02:27 PM
But I still like the dongle because I'm not limited to the number of machines, only to having the dongle or not.

that's the same thing though isn't it? you still need to install lw on as many machines as we're talking about. you could do the same with cs4. but in cs4's case, it's like have two software dongles.

anyway, not a big deal for me either way but i just prefer the activation method a tad more. in any case, i got a special keychain hook just for my dongle that unhooks easy.

if we go dongle, i just hope they make it either retractable or with a built in cap so i don't get hohos and dingdongs in it.

jin

rakker16mm
02-05-2009, 02:27 PM
Actually, I was looking around at CGTalk and theLux forums, and that's exactly what's what' already discussed.

However, this presentation might have repelled at least one or two potential customers.

Speaking as some one who is dyslexic I know what it is to have to garble one's own message. Perhaps that is why I am a little more patient that some others on this board. Sure one or two potential customers may have been lost but I think people who are really interested in the software will look past the glitches in the presentation. Web-casting being what it is I am surprised how many people were ready to lay the blame at Newtek's feet and then to also say the software is just smoke and mirrors. It just amazes me how they can come to that conclusion so readily.

Simon
02-05-2009, 02:28 PM
OK Newtek I'm giddy with excitement and 90% sold on handing over the cash for membership now, but a question please that is important ...

Give some more detail on what I'll be getting in the early build. Will it have basic functionality of the current LW 9.6? Will I be able to model, surface, light, render etc from the start or will the initial build only be part of the application? Seeing as it's only a few weeks away a basic list of what it can do and what is currently missing should be possible.

That's all I need to know before I start hammering that order now button. Cheers!

jin choung
02-05-2009, 02:28 PM
Jin,

Looks like you do not have installed ZBrush on a system with RAID disks. Their protection schema goes bonkers with it and it will only recognize your activation 50% of the times you try to use it.

Pixologic is aware of that, but they didn't managed to make the guys that made the protection system to fix it.

In fact it took me 3 days of email with supoport to get a partial activation code, that as I said only works 50% of the time.

When it fails I need to reboot the machine to make it work.

David

that sucks. yeah, none of the computers i've used zb on have raid so it's never been an issue.

jin

beverins
02-05-2009, 02:32 PM
I'll buy when y'all intro the EDU price. Please hurry :-/

Tonttu
02-05-2009, 02:37 PM
http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/lgpl-license-option-added-to-qt

Jan 14, 2009:


Espoo, Finland -- Nokia today announced that its Qt cross-platform User Interface (UI) and application framework for desktop and embedded platforms will be available under the Lesser General Public License (LGPL) version 2.1 license from the release of Qt 4.5, scheduled for March 2009. Previously, Qt has been made available to the open source community under the General Public License (GPL) license. In addition, Qt will now be available from the new domain, www.qtsoftware.com.

The move to LGPL licensing will provide open source and commercial developers with more permissive licensing than GPL and so increase flexibility for developers. In addition, Qt source code repositories will be made publicly available and will encourage contributions from desktop and embedded developer communities. With these changes, developers will be able to actively drive the evolution of the Qt framework.

Qt 4.5 will also be available under commercial licensing terms, while licensing for previous versions of Qt remains unchanged. In addition, service offerings for Qt will be expanded to ensure that all Qt development projects can have access to the same levels of support, independent of the selected license.

rakker16mm
02-05-2009, 02:38 PM
actually, i hope they go with net activation. zbrush and adobe do this and it's great. never have to worry about losing or shorting out your dongle and you just have to activate over the net once through your personal account and then when you leave a job or whatever, just de-activate from a menu option in the app. you generally get 3 install points. you activate, you lose a point, you deactivate, you get it back.

imo, really associating your product with the person with a personal account gives you a real sense of ownership and membership and that is as good a way to prevent piracy as a hardware dongle. i love it how i can go to the adobe site and see all the products registered to me (also true of the newtek site).

actually, i hope this next lw is more networky in general... so things like updates will be handled by an automatic update manager... stuff like itunes and deep exploration and steam and yes, even windows, has exposed me to the auto updates and i have developed a taste for it.

much more idiot proof too and i have screwed up far too many previous installations of lw by installing new ones etc.

jin

I lost reliable internet connection for more than a month (: So I don't feel all that secure with internet activation. Of course if we ever get universal WiFi access ( along with our long awaited jet packs ) I be just fine :D

Ztreem
02-05-2009, 02:39 PM
Jin: how does this activation/deactivation work on computers not connected to the net? The dongle works fine even if you don't have an internet connection.

The Dommo
02-05-2009, 02:42 PM
I know I'm late to say it but: !w00t! - Jin's in !

And after reading an additional 2 pages of posts here, I've completely forgotten what I was actually going to say.

.... other than EESB would be happy to help with the video presentations!! :goodluck:

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 02:45 PM
http://www.qtsoftware.com/about/news/lgpl-license-option-added-to-qt
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I doubt that Newtek is willing to provide all the LIB files necessary to relink the CORE executable (a requirement of the LGPL), so Qt going LGPL won't help with the licensing concerns over the use of Qt.

SBowie
02-05-2009, 02:48 PM
Will plugin developers who publish commercial plugins have to pay a Qt license fee, or is the Qt license fee already covered by Newtek's license with the developers of Qt?Ahem:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/nokia-qt-lgpl-switch-huge-win-for-cross-platform-development.ars

(edit: I can't answer re: the point in the preceding post)

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 02:49 PM
Ahem:

http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/nokia-qt-lgpl-switch-huge-win-for-cross-platform-development.ars
Same reply as to Tonttu.

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 03:00 PM
I really really want to see some more videos and screenshots before I fork over any money.

robertn2k
02-05-2009, 03:15 PM
im on this with JBT27 .. as bad as the presentation was, the delay would be much worst:)
and the new product looks briliant

Maybe if Jay had clued folks in on what was going on....simply stated just the way Jim did in his letter it might have helped. Because of the delay we're short on time but here's a small sample of what we wanted to show you. More videos and details will be posted on the website. I mean the world was literally watching and I'm sure every forum from the other 3D apps is having a fun time with Newtek's misfortune yesterday. I can hear some sales guy saying you can't trust them blah blah blah.

Look at all the users here who were ready to hang Newtek out to dry.

I can honestly say that while Newtek has not always been able to live up to every promise they have never screwed me over or my company or the business I was working for at the time. They always played fair by giving upgrades for free or providing other features or work around or heck something as simple as admitting a problem exists in the first place, which seems to be a problem for some companies who shall remain nameless (Adobe). They have never just abandoned their customers. Heck they're still providing tech support for some of their Amiga products. Some companies out there have a hard time providing support for the last version of their software nevermind legacy products. Maybe others here have a different experience with Newtek than I have.

If Jay and the team can get some more demos of features posted in the next few days and weeks ahead I think they can overcome the issues with the reveal.

Tranimatronic
02-05-2009, 03:27 PM
I cant help feeling a little disappointed. To me Core seems to be a Hub upgrade.
Making my buttons different colors doesn't excite me at all.
Being able to download beta versions of upcoming releases seems to be something that Ive been able to do for the last 2 years or so.
Other people being able to write plugins is great - but Im gonna have to pay for them right ?

Professionally I am a Maya plugin writer. Im REALLY pleased that python is coming to LW. It means I might be able to talk work into using LW instead of Maya. I spend most of my days debugging history issues for Maya assets that our art department blindly add to their models. No one uses history the way it is meant to be used. 9 times out of 10 when you DO try to make a cylinder 8 sided instead of 6 you are too far down the stack to be able to pull it off successfully anyway.
Instances are a great idea, but can you reliably dis and re-connect nodes? Like if you wanted one instance to have a different shader assigned ?

So to sum up - you want me to take out a yearly subscription to a product that does not yet exist, whose features are as yet undecided, where other people can use it to create plugins that I have to pay again for, that lets me use LW in a way I already use it. To see features in LW that I will see in LW eventually anyway.
Also I will become a member of a club with a snazzy club card and a t-shirt, which will ruin any chance of me ever meeting a member of the opposite sex, but WILL let me jump the queue into conventions I will have to pay to get to and from and into.
All for $400 ?
wow!!
where do I sign up ???

cagey5
02-05-2009, 03:36 PM
I cant help feeling a little disappointed. To me Core seems to be a Hub upgrade.
Making my buttons different colors doesn't excite me at all.
Being able to download beta versions of upcoming releases seems to be something that Ive been able to do for the last 2 years or so.
Other people being able to write plugins is great - but Im gonna have to pay for them right ?

Professionally I am a Maya plugin writer. Im REALLY pleased that python is coming to LW. It means I might be able to talk work into using LW instead of Maya. I spend most of my days debugging history issues for Maya assets that our art department blindly add to their models. No one uses history the way it is meant to be used. 9 times out of 10 when you DO try to make a cylinder 8 sided instead of 6 you are too far down the stack to be able to pull it off successfully anyway.
Instances are a great idea, but can you reliably dis and re-connect nodes? Like if you wanted one instance to have a different shader assigned ?

So to sum up - you want me to take out a yearly subscription to a product that does not yet exist, whose features are as yet undecided, where other people can use it to create plugins that I have to pay again for, that lets me use LW in a way I already use it. To see features in LW that I will see in LW eventually anyway.
Also I will become a member of a club with a snazzy club card and a t-shirt, which will ruin any chance of me ever meeting a member of the opposite sex, but WILL let me jump the queue into conventions I will have to pay to get to and from and into.
All for $400 ?
wow!!
where do I sign up ???

A number of people are expressing my view and I just don't get the problem. I really don't.

The offer is there to become an early adopter of the Core update. It is in no way compulsory and for that you get a good discount on the final product. If that's not for you, fine, LW 9.6 is an excellent usable program, just released and just about the most stable version I've used.

Stick with that until you see the full make up of the final core product targetted for the end of the year. If you like it buy it, if you don't then wait for the next upgrade you may like that better.

The options are all there for you to choose from. Subscribe or not it's your choice, but it'll work out cheaper if you do with some fringe benefits thrown in. [personally I think I can live without a membership card..]

jameswillmott
02-05-2009, 03:38 PM
I cant help feeling a little disappointed. To me Core seems to be a Hub upgrade.


You're kidding, right? Check the faq's from http://www.newtek.com/core esp. the techfaq and you'll soon change your mind.



So to sum up - you want me to take out a yearly subscription...

It's not a subscription as Jim said.

Stunt Pixels
02-05-2009, 03:42 PM
I cant help feeling a little disappointed. To me Core seems to be a Hub upgrade.


I cant help feeling a little disappointed. At the number of obvious trolls here....

Alliante
02-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Wow. Seriously? You came from 5 years of lurking for this spew of negativity?


I cant help feeling a little disappointed. To me Core seems to be a Hub upgrade.
Making my buttons different colors doesn't excite me at all.
Being able to download beta versions of upcoming releases seems to be something that Ive been able to do for the last 2 years or so.
Other people being able to write plugins is great - but Im gonna have to pay for them right ?

It's not a hub upgrade, this is a complete rewrite where everything can talk to everything, any module can affect every object.



Professionally I am a Maya plugin writer. Im REALLY pleased that python is coming to LW. It means I might be able to talk work into using LW instead of Maya. I spend most of my days debugging history issues for Maya assets that our art department blindly add to their models. No one uses history the way it is meant to be used. 9 times out of 10 when you DO try to make a cylinder 8 sided instead of 6 you are too far down the stack to be able to pull it off successfully anyway.
Instances are a great idea, but can you reliably dis and re-connect nodes? Like if you wanted one instance to have a different shader assigned ?
This is quite a valid question, and I'd be interested to know more about the limitations and parameters of instancing (such as character animation tweening, moods, etc).



So to sum up - you want me to take out a yearly subscription to a product that does not yet exist, whose features are as yet undecided, where other people can use it to create plugins that I have to pay again for, that lets me use LW in a way I already use it. To see features in LW that I will see in LW eventually anyway.
Also I will become a member of a club with a snazzy club card and a t-shirt, which will ruin any chance of me ever meeting a member of the opposite sex, but WILL let me jump the queue into conventions I will have to pay to get to and from and into.
All for $400 ?
wow!!
where do I sign up ???
You could have done without the sarcasm as there are hundreds of people ready to sign up.

phillydee
02-05-2009, 03:44 PM
she has such an evocative name... i always try to do something with it like, "she could stock my hammer any time" or "i'd like to stock her hammer" but it always sounds somewhat forced and elicits imagery of warehouses and construction yards which is not the intended effect... must work on it....

jin

So this is trolling a bit, hehe... but man, I remember going to InterBEE in Japan a while back (when LW was at version 4.0) and Kiki's there demoing the Video Toaster--or some NT product--all the male Japanese attendees (who weren't already glued to watching Kiki at the NT booth) were rubbernecking as they walked by--I just remember thinking how clever it was of NT to have her up there on stage... good times ;D

DonJMyers
02-05-2009, 03:50 PM
I remember the mess that was LW 6.0 when Newtek didn't beta test enough. THen by LW 9 they had an avid beta testing community. Now with LW 10 (dare I call it that :) ) they are even able to charge for being in beta. And they are bringing back the clever marketing stunts NT had back in the Amiga days (cue heavenly choir - AMIGA!)

So dedicated current customers and testers of LW get the product early, at a discount, with input on development, it's just imperfect. Newtek gives up full price on LW 10 but gets quality beta testers and a better, more user-centric product. Plus it generates more excitement when the product finally launches. "Unregistered users" get nothing.

What's not to like?

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 03:51 PM
I guess I'm a fan boy too. I hadn't seen nearly as much as I wanted to reguarding LWC but registered anyway for the membership :P NT deserve my $395 for all those free upgrades and then some. Umm I actally got the entire 9.x series for free when I bought 8.5 :-/ . . .highway robbery.

rakker16mm
02-05-2009, 03:52 PM
It's not a hub upgrade, this is a complete rewrite where everything can talk to everything, any module can affect every object.

:agree: Yeah actually when you think about it Core is the anti-hub. There really is no hub to speak of in core. Everything is modular and nodal. That alone is worth the price of admission.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 03:58 PM
:agree: Yeah actually when you think about it Core is the anti-hub. There really is no hub to speak of in core. Everything is modular and nodal. That alone is worth the price of admission.

Sigh. . .man oh man don't people know these things yet? NT is on a revolutionary warpath, and they have made an awesome platform from which to build the basics like integration and making the correct tools work correctly with eachother :stumped:

:D

mkuttler
02-05-2009, 04:06 PM
Well, as my first post I'd like to say "I'm really excited about Core!". This is a win win for me cause I haven't bought Lightwave as of yet and this is a great chance to get v9 and Core. I've used many 3d programs but I always come back to Lightwave, I just love it. Can't wait to get my hands on Core.:D

MUCUS
02-05-2009, 04:10 PM
Just want to thank for the clarification words, it's really, it's really appreciated! :thumbsup:

devin
02-05-2009, 04:14 PM
Question: If we buy in now, when will our yearly subscription start? March 31st? If the day we order, would it not pay to wait until March 30th or so before we order?

Has this been addressed? Curious.

Tranimatronic
02-05-2009, 04:20 PM
cagey5 - thanks for that. I didnt realise I didnt have to buy it.
By the way - I have some invisible clothes and magic beans in the back of the car if youre interested in buying them ?? :D

cagey5
02-05-2009, 04:29 PM
cagey5 - thanks for that. I didnt realise I didnt have to buy it.

No problem, I knew you were struggling to grasp simple concepts


By the way - I have some invisible clothes and magic beans in the back of the car if youre interested in buying them ?? :D


That's ok you bought them you keep them. ;)

Phrog
02-05-2009, 04:36 PM
One more question regarding the pricing - if the cost of the hardcore membership includes the next full upgrade and it costs $495 after march 31 then what exactly is the $695 udgrade price for? Aren't they the same thing? Or will the price of the hardcore membership go up to $695 in a year? Didn't Jim say he was unsure what the future cost of the hardcore membership would be?

What are the recommended (and minimum) PC computer specs for the program? If the program is GPU aware then is there a recommended GPU or video card? And if I am network rendering do all the nodes have to have the same GPU or does that not affect rendering?

Can I mix 32 bit and 64 bit machines when rending over the screamernet (or is that the "rocketcorenet" or something similar now)?

Will older versions of lightwave scenes work? If not will there be some sort of way to convert them over? Will plugins work?

I have heard rumors of changes to the dongle. What is the official word?

Despite the questions I am hopeful that CORE is a truly new and exciting direction.

*Pete*
02-05-2009, 04:37 PM
I remember the mess that was LW 6.0 when Newtek didn't beta test enough. THen by LW 9 they had an avid beta testing community. Now with LW 10 (dare I call it that :) ) they are even able to charge for being in beta. And they are bringing back the clever marketing stunts NT had back in the Amiga days (cue heavenly choir - AMIGA!)

So dedicated current customers and testers of LW get the product early, at a discount, with input on development, it's just imperfect. Newtek gives up full price on LW 10 but gets quality beta testers and a better, more user-centric product. Plus it generates more excitement when the product finally launches. "Unregistered users" get nothing.

What's not to like?

Im not sure about the T-shirts...i doubt it will be correct size, so ill opt out from a cheaper CORE, access to beta versions and so on and instead wait untill i get to pay a full upgrade price, 300 dollar more expensively...

if only there would be a way to try the Tshirt before ordering, well then...maybe, maybe.

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 04:38 PM
Can Core render objects?

Can we animate in core?

Can we light things in core?

Can we texture things in core?

Can we do anything in core besides make 3 instances of an object and twist it?

Come on, I need more information.

*Pete*
02-05-2009, 04:40 PM
........then what exactly is the $695 udgrade price for?

to my understanding, you pay extra for not HELPING NT to beta test the product...

you could simply buy it now in a beta state, leave it untouched for the rest of the year and use it as it goes into final state..and doing so you would save 300 dollar, get a T-shirt and still get the full, tested and finalised product (CORE).

Dodgy
02-05-2009, 04:44 PM
Congrats to Newtek for all their hard work, core looks very nice indeed.

WillBellJr
02-05-2009, 04:51 PM
The Dongle method is king, please don't change that!

Derrick

Ditto - the Internet is NOT reliable as we all absolutely witnessed yesterday!

I don't mind Internet activation but it shouldn't supplant the dongle.

My thing with IA, the 30-day counter should RESET everytime you successfullly activate cause if you go to your client, and their Internet is down when you try to reactivate, you're typically hosed!

Being able to fall back on a temporary trial would definitely save your bacon until the Internet is restored...


Another problem is not all computers are Internet connected; on my job, all the dev machines are on a restricted-domain network (IT is lazy and don't like fighting viruses and worms) and unfortunately Newtek isn't on that list so I need my dongle when I'm at work.

-Will

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 04:51 PM
Can Core render objects?

Can we animate in core?

Can we light things in core?

Can we texture things in core?

Can we do anything in core besides make 3 instances of an object and twist it?

Come on, I need more information.lol. Go read the Tech FAQ's. But I know what you mean, I want to see more vids. too!!!

lardbros
02-05-2009, 04:54 PM
For the apologies, thanks very much Jim! Appreciated... but i kinda think this apologies thread could be a sticky, or have a link on the CORE site. It was a pretty bad blunder and you probably want to forget it happened too, so maybe it's not a great idea.

Tell you how people would forgive you though, is a nice video of some more features pretty soon-ish. Probably without people stood talking, but proper screencaps and professional voice overs! If this happens people would soon forget that any of this happened im sure. :)

Stooch
02-05-2009, 04:54 PM
the way i see it. with XSI gone there is an empty spot in the market.

so whoever gets in will win. modo will now remain on the bottom rung of the pricing ladder unless they whip it all out and smash it on the table so hard it rattles the china. goot strategic move.

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 04:55 PM
what exactly is the $695 updgrade price for?

$495 prior to a final v10 with HardCORE access and the final included when released. $695 is an upgrade from v9 to v10 final after it's released. HardCORE for v10 is over at that point. will HardCORE for v11 be included in the upgrade? who knows.

[edit cause that didn't make sense!]

DiscreetFX
02-05-2009, 05:09 PM
Jim, thanks for all the hard work you and the team are doing on an awesome new direction for Lightwave 3D (LightWave CORE).

ItsPete
02-05-2009, 05:28 PM
to my understanding, you pay extra for not HELPING NT to beta test the product...

you could simply buy it now in a beta state, leave it untouched for the rest of the year and use it as it goes into final state..and doing so you would save 300 dollar, get a T-shirt and still get the full, tested and finalised product (CORE).

*Pete* try that perfectly sound argument on the accounting staff. they'll take your t-shirt! :D

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 05:29 PM
Come on NT, more videos. You did such a great job getting everyone's attention, strike while the iron is hot!!!

Magnus81
02-05-2009, 05:31 PM
I'm really just doing the membership for t-shirt.

antsj
02-05-2009, 05:35 PM
Thanks for the presentation apology Jim.

Looking forward to videos and when the CORE will be released for BETA.

jayroth
02-05-2009, 05:37 PM
Can I specify how my $395 is spent. I'd like $20 to go to Jay Roth, $40 for Lightwave R+D, $40 for the rest of the LW development team. The other $300 can be split up between Irene and Kiki.

Only $20?? No soup for you!!

js33
02-05-2009, 05:37 PM
Jim,

Thanks for the info and update. We Lightwavers are a forgiving bunch but think of the opportunity that was missed to target the community outside Lightwave. Perhaps in the future don't bother with live demos just record and edit them nicely and post them on the Newtek site and/or a Newtek Youtube page. There have always been problems with streaming events. Don't leave your reputation in the hands of some streaming company that no one ever heard of and will likely never visit again.

Make a bold statement, just like you did with the viral marketing then make an even bolder presentation with multiple outlets. Since it was posted on Youtube anyway why not set up an official Newtek channel on youtube and post it there yourselves?

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 05:37 PM
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately, I doubt that Newtek is willing to provide all the LIB files necessary to relink the CORE executable (a requirement of the LGPL), so Qt going LGPL won't help with the licensing concerns over the use of Qt.

I just remembered, this would only be the case if the LGPL version of the Qt library were linked directly into CORE. If Newtek were to link dynamically to the library (ship it as a DLL), the relinking requirement of the LGPL would be satisfied. If that's what Newtek is doing, I doubt the LGPL will present any problem. Still would like to hear the official word, though.

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 05:39 PM
lol. Go read the Tech FAQ's. But I know what you mean, I want to see more vids. too!!!

The tech FAQs don't mention what exactly is in the initial build slated to be available in Q1.

I'll repeat my questions from pages way back.....

Will the Core released in the next few weeks be able to do everything the current LW can (animate, render, HV, Node Texturing, morphs)? If not what will be included?
Will FPrime, LWCAD, TrueArt & Pictrix plugins work in Core?
Will the full Core SDK be released to all hardCore members?
Do we need to get a Qt license to use the Core SDK?


The Qt licensing is significant to me as a developer.
Currently Qt has a free GPL license that mandates you open source your code - which means you can't sell it.

The Qt Commercial development license costs $1200/year.
Novia has said they will release a free LGPL license which is a bit more forgiving but that hasn't happened yet.
________________

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 05:41 PM
Will the full Core SDK be released to all hardCore members?
Why assume it will be limited to HardCore members? After all, access to the SDK isn't listed as a HardCore benefit.

I want to know whether the full SDK will be available to all those who purchase Lightwave CORE, or whether HardCore or some other kind of membership will be required.

Hopper
02-05-2009, 05:45 PM
If my wife can buy a $300 pair of shoes and not think there's anything wrong with that, then I'm in ... sign me up.


Someone did pose a good question though ... so exactly "when" does your subscription start? I'm assuming on the first day of the beta release eh?

aurora
02-05-2009, 05:53 PM
Do we need to get a Qt license to use the Core SDK?
First I'm not a dev, nor with NT in anyway more then any of you really. However I can very easily answer this question having worked professionally with Qt in the past.
No! You will not need a license of Qt to use it. In fact we most likely won't even see Qt at all thanks to the the need to wrap all Qt fxn's into LW's own gui code. All we will see is what LW needs to see to do its gui magic via hooks to the wrappers. This naturally also means no need for PyQt to use Qt inside your python scripts!

Phrog
02-05-2009, 05:59 PM
to my understanding, you pay extra for not HELPING NT to beta test the product...

you could simply buy it now in a beta state, leave it untouched for the rest of the year and use it as it goes into final state..and doing so you would save 300 dollar, get a T-shirt and still get the full, tested and finalised product (CORE).

And this is probably exactly what i will do. Newtek did this many years ago with another version (was it 6 or a later version that they had the paid beta) except that I remember the development time took much longer than was intially thought.

jin choung
02-05-2009, 06:11 PM
as for internet activation, it is only the first time you run the program on a given computer but yes, it absolutely does require an internet connection... oh actually, i suppose m$ have their phone in dealy too but that would require more infrastructure and i'm sure newtek doesn't want that.

actually, just because of that, they probably will still stick to the dongle... but like i said, if it is a dongle, i hope it comes in a retractable case. jin doesn't like rocking out with his c2345ing out.

jin

jin choung
02-05-2009, 06:13 PM
I know I'm late to say it but: !w00t! - Jin's in !

i've said it before, i'll say it again:

INGAGEY DA CORE!!!

jin

Earl
02-05-2009, 06:14 PM
so things like updates will be handled by an automatic update manager
I just want to be able to update LW without having to go through and do all my custom config stuff again. The configs are so finicky now that I don't trust exporting and re-importing of my settings for fear of bugginess.

The basic preferences should just be separated out so they are version agnositic.

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 06:15 PM
First I'm not a dev, nor with NT in anyway more then any of you really. However I can very easily answer this question having worked professionally with Qt in the past.
No! You will not need a license of Qt to use it. In fact we most likely won't even see Qt at all thanks to the the need to wrap all Qt fxn's into LW's own gui code. All we will see is what LW needs to see to do its gui magic via hooks to the wrappers. This naturally also means no need for PyQt to use Qt inside your python scripts!

Aloha Aurora,

Thanks for your response.

So you're thinking that even developing plugins with interfaces won't require using Qt libraries?

jin choung
02-05-2009, 06:17 PM
I just want to be able to update LW without having to go through and do all my custom config stuff again. The configs are so finicky now that I don't trust exporting and re-importing of my settings for fear of bugginess.

The basic preferences should just be separated out so they are version agnositic.

oh absolutely.

an update should never ever f with your settings....

and also not make new features hidden because they're NOT fing with your settings....

this is definitely an area that they have to focus on and handle with great deliberation because the past has not been good.

jin

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 06:18 PM
So you're thinking that even developing plugins with interfaces won't require using Qt libraries?Surely that would depend on whether Newtek is wrapping the Qt functionality around its own interface functions.

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 06:24 PM
Will the full Core SDK be released to all hardCore members?


Why assume it will be limited to HardCore members? After all, access to the SDK isn't listed as a HardCore benefit.

I want to know whether the full SDK will be available to all those who purchase Lightwave CORE, or whether HardCore or some other kind of membership will be required.

Perhaps i don't accurately understand what hardCore actually is. I thought it was a pre-release (with cost break) that would include our beta testing and special access to the Core development staff.

Here's is why I think that:


Want to be the first to get your hands on this technology?

Here’s how you do it. Gain early access to LightWave CORE™ through NewTek’s HardCORE™ membership program.

What I'm trying to get an answer to is whether the initial build(s) released to "hardCore" members will include the SDK. Or is NT planning on waiting until the Q4 release to provide general access to the Core SDK.

meatycheesyboy
02-05-2009, 06:26 PM
as for internet activation, it is only the first time you run the program on a given computer but yes, it absolutely does require an internet connection... oh actually, i suppose m$ have their phone in dealy too but that would require more infrastructure and i'm sure newtek doesn't want that.

actually, just because of that, they probably will still stick to the dongle... but like i said, if it is a dongle, i hope it comes in a retractable case. jin doesn't like rocking out with his c2345ing out.

jin

If they were to move to an online activation scheme, please do it like ZBrush and Adobe products, let the user manually deativate at any time and move the product to another computer. Don't do the MS method where you can't manually deactivate.

But in all honesty, I'd love for them to keep the dongle.

jayroth
02-05-2009, 06:34 PM
What I'm trying to get an answer to is whether the initial build(s) released to "hardCore" members will include the SDK. Or is NT planning on waiting until the Q4 release to provide general access to the Core SDK.

The SDK will be released in a short while. You will not have to wait too long to get it.

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 06:37 PM
The SDK will be released in a short while. You will not have to wait too long to get it.
So... will all those who purchase Lightwave CORE (rather than a hardCore membership) get access to the SDK? Will there be any special licensing requirements for commercial use?

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 06:43 PM
The tech FAQs don't mention what exactly is in the initial build slated to be available in Q1.

I'll repeat my questions from pages way back.....

Will the Core released in the next few weeks be able to do everything the current LW can (animate, render, HV, Node Texturing, morphs)? If not what will be included?
Will FPrime, LWCAD, TrueArt & Pictrix plugins work in Core?
Will the full Core SDK be released to all hardCore members?
Do we need to get a Qt license to use the Core SDK?


The Qt licensing is significant to me as a developer.
Currently Qt has a free GPL license that mandates you open source your code - which means you can't sell it.

The Qt Commercial development license costs $1200/year.
Novia has said they will release a free LGPL license which is a bit more forgiving but that hasn't happened yet.
________________

for sure fprime and all other plugins will not work. i think every1 is fed up of old lightwave core.... so to clear this thing once for all time NO MORE OLD CORE / OLD PLUGINS in new core// deal with it... every developer will need to update their products.
for what u will be able to take hands on?
lets say piece by piece all the way till q4 of production release. i think it is good that way ... otherwise construction could fail again.. i rather focus on part of piece 1st... lw core is huge and i am sure betatesters will have lot of work as far engineers do also.
about gt as i heard from chuck you do not neeed qt licence to be able to develop and sdk should be rollout during hardcore cycle ...

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 06:50 PM
The SDK will be released in a short while. You will not have to wait too long to get it.

Aloha and thanks.

That means that once I receive the SDK I can begin assessing which plugins I need to convert and how much time that will actually take.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 06:52 PM
i've said it before, i'll say it again:

INGAGEY DA CORE!!!

jin

I knew you would engage, I didn't have any doubt about it. ;)

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 07:05 PM
for sure fprime and all other plugins will not work. i think every1 is fed up of old lightwave core.... so to clear this thing once for all time NO MORE OLD CORE / OLD PLUGINS in new core// deal with it... every developer will need to update their products.
for what u will be able to take hands on?
lets say piece by piece all the way till q4 of production release. i think it is good that way ... otherwise construction could fail again.. i rather focus on part of piece 1st... lw core is huge and i am sure betatesters will have lot of work as far engineers do also.
about gt as i heard from chuck you do not neeed qt licence to be able to develop and sdk should be rollout during hardcore cycle ...

The questions aren't funny at all. What I heard in the video was that all the tools we are used to using will be available - but perhaps tucked away in different places. And that we can reorganize them if we want to.

I also didn't hear Chuck say or write anything about Qt licensing at all - but I'll go back and re-listen to that recording. I could easily have missed that.

Here's what the FAQ says:

For user interface, the popular Qt toolkit from TrollTech/Nokia was chosen. This toolkit is powerful, flexible, and there is a large talent pool of users with experience within the toolkit. This gives NewTek access to a talent pool with previously-existing experience. Less training upfront enables potential hires to become more productive more quickly. Also, with thousands of users, this toolkit is more robust than anything that we could have developed in-house at NewTek. In addition, it is available now for development; had NewTek developed its own toolkit, as had previously been done for earlier versions of LightWave, LightWave CORE™ development would have had to wait for implementation of the UI toolkit system. This is but one example of the benefits of leveraging industry standards.

LightWave users will see the benefits of the Qt immediately: snapping palettes, flexible UI design, skins and so on are possible within this system, and NewTek has already leveraged these features to varying degrees. The wide-ranging adoption of Qt in large commercial vendors is occurring, and this trend further reinforces our choice.

It specifically says that the toolkit is available now.
Well, yes you can download it from the Qt site.
But the licensing is currently restrictive:

Free == open source your code OR $1200/year

These are serious questions to me.

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 07:14 PM
so from that newtek is cheap as popcorn :)

DXC13
02-05-2009, 07:16 PM
I for one certainly appreciate the apology and the acceptance of the responsibility. Being a programmer myself, I am well acquainted with "Not me" and all of the terrible thing he does. Straightforward communication will always create loyalty. I was disappointed yesterday but I totally understand that doodoo does occur from time to time.

With that said and as someone who does this stuff just as a hobby, I'd like to add that I'm on board and am now a hardCORE member, if for no other reason than I like and support NewTek as a company. I like your vision for the future and applaud your guts for taking such a huge step in the right direction instead of just pushing a somewhat antiquated platform through version after version just to keep your revenue stream alive.

Here's to a successful rewrite and V10 release :beerchug:

mav3rick
02-05-2009, 07:21 PM
oh one more hardcore guy on board... welcom DiXY :) :lightwave CORE

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 07:26 PM
Only $20?? No soup for you!!

Lol. I just saw this reading back through this thread. Well, Jay, you're one guy so I think I'm giving you a lot, you don't have to share it with anyone. How many people do you have on the development staff, they have to split $40 among them (see how well you have it now). You can take part of the R + D money if you want too. But I stand firm that Kiki and Irene get the other $300. Well, cuz they're girls and girls smell nice.

ted
02-05-2009, 07:37 PM
Nice job Jim P.
Things happen but being so quick and frank with information it is better than hiding like many companies & management do after something like this.
I wish all the best for NewTek and this community.

jin choung
02-05-2009, 07:52 PM
I knew you would engage, I didn't have any doubt about it. ;)

hahaha... you got me!

: )

jin

GraphXs
02-05-2009, 07:53 PM
Thanks Jim, can't wait to join "HARDCore"!

procyon99
02-05-2009, 08:12 PM
Will core stop working when my subscription ends?

A Mejias
02-05-2009, 08:20 PM
...

...
Moving on: I think I've read almost every message on every forum, and I can see that we've confused some of you about our upcoming LightWave development plans. We'll clarify these issues on our site, but I'd like to take this opportunity to immediately address some of the questions about the new HardCORE program and future LightWave pricing.

Question 1: Is HardCORE a new subscription program for LightWave?
Answer 1: Yes, but it is not mandatory. You can still buy LightWave upgrades the way you always have in the past. It's an optional program that will allow you to interact more closely with our developers and participate in the development of LightWave CORE. It also provides early access to the LightWave CORE technology. There are other benefits, as well.

Question 2: How often do you plan to ship a major paid upgrade?
Answer 2: Development plans are just that....plans; but we do hope to ship major paid upgrades more often than we have in the past. The CORE architecture will give us the opportunity to innovate faster than we've been able to previously.

Question 3: Will I be forced to upgrade or punished if I don't upgrade?
Answer 3: No. Just as always, you can choose to upgrade whenever you want and there will be no penalty if you choose not to. You can skip as many upgrades as you want and still come back in at any time and purchase the current upgrade at the current upgrade price.

Question 4: Will bug fixes continue to be free?
Answer 4: Yes.

Question 5: Does the HardCORE program include the LightWave CORE, or do I have to pay extra when it ships?
Answer 5: It is included.

Question 6: What if you don't ship LightWave CORE in Q4 like you planned, and my HardCORE membership expires before you ship?
Answer 6: You'll still get it. We'll guarantee at least one paid upgrade with each annual HardCORE membership.

Question 7: How much will the HardCORE membership cost next year?
Answer 7: We don't know yet. It's hard to predict our future costs and prices, but it will likely be the same as it is this year.

Question 8: When can I sign up for HardCORE?
Answer 8: Soon...probably in the next day or two. We'll send out a notice as soon as sign-up is available.

Question 9: What if don't live in the United States, can I still sign up for HardCORE?
Answer 9: Yes, you can sign up directly with NewTek on our site. We should have all that ready in a day or two.

OK, those are what I believe were the most asked questions in the forums I read. If you have any other questions, please post them here and I will try to answer them.

With Regards,

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the clarification!

LWCore is looking very promising!

My questions are.

1. Will we get a detailed confirmed list of features for LWCore so we know exactly what to expect? I don't want to buy in now expecting features that will end up getting moved to a "future cycle." This happened with 9.0. Some key features that were the reason we bought 9.0 were moved to LWCore.

2. Is LWCore at a usable state now? Will we be able to get some work done or is it still to early to tell? I don't mean production work. I mean, can I model, surface, render, animate and get sometinging decent out?

3. Will all the features, functionality, plugins (or their equivalent), etc. we have now in LW9.6 be in LWCore? Or will we have less and still need to run LW9.6 for some tasks?

4. Do non HardCore members get continued updates to LW9.6?

Thanks!

Cageman
02-05-2009, 08:30 PM
Thank you for acknowledging the mistake of this core reveal. The reason I think that a lot of us are upset by it is that as Lightwave users, everything Newtek does reflects on us. So, when a presentation looks horrible, is badly written, created unprofessionally, and executed badly....everyone in the CG industry looks at us an laughs. Lightwave still isn't taken seriously in the community and this is an example as to why.

I concour... however... it was going to be a live event with a Q/A session as well. IF that had happened and things had run smoothly without technical hickups, the production had probably not looked better (realtime bluescreen etc, etc), but at least we would have had the oppertunity to ask questions and recieve the answers live.

As you say though, from now on, pre-recorded screen captures, better looking bluescreen with good looking backdrops (if that is needed for technology preivews).

Actually.. I'll settle with pre-recorded screengrabs in HD.

:)

Myagi
02-05-2009, 08:44 PM
Will core stop working when my subscription ends?

you own your copy in the same way you own your current LW copy, in other words, no

JMCarrigan
02-05-2009, 08:48 PM
I for one certainly appreciate the apology and the acceptance of the responsibility. Being a programmer myself, I am well acquainted with "Not me" and all of the terrible thing he does....

Here's to a successful rewrite and V10 release :beerchug:

Here here!:thumbsup:

jin choung
02-05-2009, 08:50 PM
Will core stop working when my subscription ends?


hahahahaha... ohhhh... bad sales language. the gift that keeps on giving.

no. nothing will stop working. just as lw 9 will never stop working. if you don't upgrade, you don't get the next version but nothing stops working.

although they may come after your family.

jin

Mr Big
02-05-2009, 09:00 PM
First I'm not a dev, nor with NT in anyway more then any of you really. However I can very easily answer this question having worked professionally with Qt in the past.
No! You will not need a license of Qt to use it. In fact we most likely won't even see Qt at all thanks to the the need to wrap all Qt fxn's into LW's own gui code. All we will see is what LW needs to see to do its gui magic via hooks to the wrappers. This naturally also means no need for PyQt to use Qt inside your python scripts!

Thanks for clearing that up aurora. I'd like to hear more about the script editor, Is it like LS
cript Commander or improved, taking advantage of history. Can you cut, copy & paste, with the mouse? This would be great for editing scripts while working in Core.

Adrian Lopez
02-05-2009, 09:03 PM
Thanks for clearing that up aurora. I'd like to hear more about the script editor, Is it like LS
cript Commander or improved, taking advantage of history. Can you cut, copy & paste, with the mouse? This would be great for editing scripts while working in Core.Once again I feel the need to point out that what aurora said is only true if Newtek is wrapping the Qt functions around their own GUI functions. No indication yet that such is the case.

Mr Big
02-05-2009, 09:28 PM
Quote from Mav3rick
as i heard from chuck you do not neeed qt licence to be able to develop and sdk should be rollout during hardcore cycle

As I understand it, if a plugin operates within the CORE framework we should not have to pay a QT licence fee . Please correct me if I'm wrong.

jayroth
02-05-2009, 09:49 PM
Will core stop working when my subscription ends?

No.

Silkrooster
02-05-2009, 10:05 PM
I appreciate the apology but I don't really think it was necessary. Crap happens we all know that. But it is refreshing to get a detailed explanation of what went wrong.
I think Jim cleared up any questions I had, so I will be in.
Take care,
Silk

Jim Plant
02-05-2009, 10:34 PM
Hey, thanks everyone for the comments and the questions. I'm gathering them up and trying to figure out which ones I can actually answer. I probably won't be able to address any of the technical questions, or questions about which features will be available when the first build comes out or the shipping build. There's just no way I can know that right now. I'll let Jay and his LW dev managers address those types of questions if they can.

I'll focus on the HardCORE pricing and policy questions. I'll post a follow-up response tomorrow.

Thanks.

Jim Plant
President & CEO
NewTek, Inc.

rcr62
02-05-2009, 10:42 PM
No . . . . thank you Mr. Plant.

RC

:thumbsup:

jameswillmott
02-05-2009, 10:45 PM
It's nice when NT management posts here. Thanks Mr Plant, this communication is much appreciated.

Larry_g1s
02-05-2009, 10:47 PM
Congratulations again NT, well deserved as a company. When do you think we can see more videos. I'm ready to plunker down some cash to upgrade, that Tech FAQ's makes CORE look amazing!!! But I'd just like to see some more.

Frank_Geppert
02-06-2009, 02:26 AM
You can already do that in 9.6.

Thanks captain, but I can bake normal maps from geometry only via external plugin. And plugins will not work in Core anymore. So I have to check this feature thoroughly.

biliousfrog
02-06-2009, 03:28 AM
I guess the big question is when will NewTek consider CORE v.1 finished?

If I'm paying for a product, whether it's at a reduced rate or not, I want to know what I'm getting. For all we know, the 'finished' product in Q4 could be the ability to instance a box and animate them along the X axis.

So far, you're asking for money to fund a concept. It sounds great but the cheap introductory offer isn't so cheap if the product doesn't reach those expectations until 2012 and we're all still using LW9.6.

Basically, if CORE is unlikely to be as good or better than 9.6 by the end of the year, the introductory price is a waste of money IMHO. There are cheaper ways to experiment with inferior products...I hear Blender is good. ;)

bearfoot
02-06-2009, 03:38 AM
way to go jim. Many thanks for posting and explaining a lot of stuff.

very professional and much appreciated.

count me in for the new version.

dballesg
02-06-2009, 03:42 AM
First I'm not a dev, nor with NT in anyway more then any of you really. However I can very easily answer this question having worked professionally with Qt in the past.
No! You will not need a license of Qt to use it. In fact we most likely won't even see Qt at all thanks to the the need to wrap all Qt fxn's into LW's own gui code. All we will see is what LW needs to see to do its gui magic via hooks to the wrappers. This naturally also means no need for PyQt to use Qt inside your python scripts!

Hi Aurora,

Because you said you have worked professionally with Qt, maybe you know if Qt allows you to design new components, i.e: A new type of button, or a new behavior for a window (sorry but I didn't went trough all the Qt documents yet).

If it is so, NT need to wrap that possibility as well, certain plugin designs would need that, I am thinking for example on someone doing a similar interface as the one in Motion Mixer.

In LW 9.x and previous versions, do those interfaces required a lot of creativity hacking the LW SDK.

I was designing a plugin that needed a new node editor, the actual one didn't fit mt needs. Of course I stalled it untill I can put my hands on the new SDK and LW Core. But I think you know what i mean.

Thanks in advance,
David

achrystie
02-06-2009, 03:58 AM
I guess the big question is when will NewTek consider CORE v.1 finished?

If I'm paying for a product, whether it's at a reduced rate or not, I want to know what I'm getting. For all we know, the 'finished' product in Q4 could be the ability to instance a box and animate them along the X axis.

So far, you're asking for money to fund a concept. It sounds great but the cheap introductory offer isn't so cheap if the product doesn't reach those expectations until 2012 and we're all still using LW9.6.

Basically, if CORE is unlikely to be as good or better than 9.6 by the end of the year, the introductory price is a waste of money IMHO. There are cheaper ways to experiment with inferior products...I hear Blender is good. ;)

Well said.

I think what has been shown so far is fantastic. I really love the idea of having Python available and a nodal object system. Great!

However, there is nothing in any of the press releases or the CORE page that indicates exactly what has been implemented so far.
It says things like "enable dynamics", but doesn't say it actually "has" any dynamics". It says Ligthwave CORE is this, Lightwave CORE and that, Lightwave CORE and something else, in the press release, but then a few paragraphs down it changes to Lightwave3D and says "is a full modeling, rendering" etc. Which indicates to me that, until further notice, CORE is just that, a CORE, and other than the modeling and instancing we've seen so far, it may not even have a render engine yet.

I'll be happy to plunk down some cash to get in early, before March 31st, but I need a LOT more information on what is being provided and "planned" as you and others have so carefully said, before I do.

Looking forward to some more information and videos.

I'd also not sweat the original presentation as much as a lot of folks are making. I'd find it very hard to believe that anyone making an informed decision on professional software would be "that" concerned over who's demoing and how. I thought the fellows on the video did fine, when you take into context that Newtek is "not" a production house/TV studio. Quite frankly, I'd rather have the engineer talking about his software than some babe with big boobs and an ear to ear smile. My only caution would be, if you decide to go live, make it more low key and maybe interactive (chat?), and then prerecord the next "demo", just to make it easier to see.

PeteS
02-06-2009, 08:25 AM
Hey guys..thanks for the heads up. Looking forward to going CORE!. Especially that I'm a MAC user. The video seems very promising. True, I'd love to know a bit more about my direct benefit rather than the tech talk behind it. I do understand that this will be the platform to expand LW to where it needs to be. Personally I'd still love to see a solid Mocap (motionbuilder) pipeline, some stronger character deformation tools like softimage, as well as a camera that can have it's motion transferred nativity to after effects like cinema 4d can. Maybe this update will help that? If so, I'd love to have it more clearly explained. I understand this is a huge jump for LW, but at the same time I'd like to know we will gain ground on areas where other apps have passed us.

To wrap it up, I will be a CORE member. I understand the great benefits in pricing and technology that comes with it. I mean hey, I, as many, have a huge amount of time invested in LW and know that only good things can come moving forward.

Looking forward to CORE and good things!
Pete

jasonwestmas
02-06-2009, 08:26 AM
Thanks MR. PLANT! What a cool name.

Andyjaggy
02-06-2009, 08:54 AM
Yep pretty much my thoughts exactly. Until I can see that Core is going to be better then 9.6 with the first release I'm going to hold off ordering. As far as I call tell Core is just a shell at the moment, and has yet to be filled with any useful functionality.

Until I actually see some substantial proof of the functionality inside of core I just can't justify it. I have faith in NT that Core will be great but obviously not enough faith to give them my money yet. :D

phil lawson
02-06-2009, 09:02 AM
I'm a little wary of using the store due to the "Warning: Contains unauthenticated content" sign. I remember the hackers got in a few months back, and don't want to use my card until its all cleared up (safety first :)).

If someone could look into it and update, then it wont be a problem.

Cheers.

UnCommonGrafx
02-06-2009, 09:09 AM
No one has said it but, surely one could surmise that the chap on the core page was done with an early incarnation of this thing...

Liber777
02-06-2009, 09:22 AM
No one has said it but, surely one could surmise that the chap on the core page was done with an early incarnation of this thing...

That chap is in the v9 gallery off the LightWave product page.

cresshead
02-06-2009, 09:32 AM
I'm a little wary of using the store due to the "Warning: Contains unauthenticated content" sign. I remember the hackers got in a few months back, and don't want to use my card until its all cleared up (safety first :)).

If someone could look into it and update, then it wont be a problem.

Cheers.

i used paypal...:thumbsup::lwicon:

Adrian Lopez
02-06-2009, 09:42 AM
i used paypal...:thumbsup:

I'd rather risk getting hacked than use Paypal. ;)

cresshead
02-06-2009, 09:51 AM
core blimey!
:lol: