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hrgiger
02-05-2009, 06:21 AM
Sorry, I have to yell for a little bit.

Un-fricking believable. Is this still the Lightwave community? I am frankly embarrassed by all the comments about yesterdays reveal. I've been involved with Lightwave for almost 8 years and have heard so much whining and so much crying about how Lightwave isn't integrated, and how Lightwave is behind the times, more specifically, more modern applications. Then yesterday, Newtek tells us that they have done everything we've asked them to do, they've re-written Lightwave from the ground up with a modern code base where everything is transparent. They've done it in two years WHILE at the same time, delivering to us a major restructuring of the old codebase for Lightwave 9.x. I find this nothing short of astounding, especially considering not only that this is a relatively new development team to Lightwave, but that it is a small team compared to other companies like Autodesk. But everyone is focused on the fact that the core reveal wasn't fricking Gone With the Wind and that they don't get to see everything that their special little hearts wanted to see in one day. Clean the wax out honestly. We're going to be seeing more about Core. Newtek isn't putting a gun to your head to upgrade but they've given us a great incentive with a low price to buy in to a new and powerful application but yet still with familiar Lightwave methods and feel. People really need to read the techFAQs page to just see what a new beast this program is going to be: http://newtek.com/core/techfaq.php
I am completely apalled that people are referring to Jonas as the man in gray or Spock or whatever has been said. It is so disrespectful and frankly as Core product development manager and what has been accomplished, he deserves a lot of thanks from us and not mocking comments.
I think if you really look, you'll see how much has been accomplished. One of the more outspoken members of the LW community ,Jin Choung, was mad as hell that he couldn't see the feed (as were a lot of us) and was pretty upset about what the new pricing structure could entail, but once he saw the video, he realized just how much good is there if you look for it. I think he could be a lesson for some of us.
People can think whatever they want, but I think you must be blind to not see the potential we have here. Sorry it wasn't wrapped up in a pretty little gift bag with lots of frilly lace. Sorry you don't get it all at once, gee, that's just too bad. And this isn't fanboyism or software favoritism or whatever you want to call it. I see a completely revised and modern day Lightwave that has many advantages over the competition, one of them still being price. Look at how much LW has changed just over the 9.x series while a new application was being written, just imagine what this team can accomplish when they are focusing on Core which has none of the hinderances or bottlenecks that the old code base did. Read this part very carefully. Third parties can now access ALL areas of the program, everything is transparent. This has major implications for the future of Lightwave.
I also see a lot of people signing up to the forums that frankly are probably just Lightwave haters, modo users, teenagers with nothing else better to do who are still struggling to understand what bevel means, talking about how they were going to upgrade but because of a poor presentation, they'll never use Lightwave. This is a lot of just meaningless noise and should be ignored. These are not serious people who had ever any intention of using Lightwave.
So apologies Newtek for all the negativity and lack of respect. I think you'll find most users are very happy about the potential of this new software. I am very excited about what this means for the 3D software I already use.

juanjgon
02-05-2009, 06:28 AM
I agree ... if we want a new LW, this is the only way ... it is going to be hard and long, and NT, as private company, need money to get it done. I have made all my projects in the last 10 years working with LW, who cost me a ridiculous amount of money for what i get with it ... i have no problem with subscritions or hi costs if with this money i could get the LW i need ... in fact there is no other way.

MSwengel
02-05-2009, 06:29 AM
I will agree ONLY if this question is answered:

Ok... I'll be blunt.

CORE looks interesting, but until I get a favorable answer to THIS question, NT and I aren't on good terms.

One of the stated "benefits" of HardCORE is getting updates to 9.x

Does this mean that those of us who can't afford HardCORE are now screwed out of bugfixes and updates? Are any future updates now reserved for the "elite" members???

If this is true, I must say I am VERY upset with NT. :2guns::I_Love_Ne
:cursin::lwicon::tsktsk:

mouse_art
02-05-2009, 06:32 AM
No, bugfixes are still free.

Frank_Geppert
02-05-2009, 06:34 AM
I absolutely agree with hrgiger. I see much potential in this new code base. And I really love my LW, I use it almost every day.

But exactly because I love my LW that much I also would like to see how the new version compares to the feature set of my current LW9.6 version. Will we lose plugins? Will there be new features? There are so much questions.

And besides that I also understand why there are so much discussions. Some details about the new license and payments are not absolutely clear. Speculations followed because of that.

So I am really looking forward to more information regarding LW Core. And yes, I am excited as well.

ben martin
02-05-2009, 06:38 AM
I agree...IF, AND ONLY IF... Core is not going to be a one year licence locked, each year!
Far from this, and all is going to be fine!

Kuzey
02-05-2009, 06:41 AM
I have had no problems with the core potential because that part of it is huge and the video was good as well. It's a hard job talking in front of the camera, there's no way in hell I can do it in a million years :hey:

Also, I kinda liked the small company feel of the feed....it had a retro feel to it and that was nice. Too much slick makes me think someone is up to something no good :hey:

Having said that, now is the time for more details about the pricing scheme, if LWcore gets delayed a few months...what does that mean as far as the final version...do I get it or do I miss out etc.

As far as I'm concerned, it's just the little non app related details that needs to be ironed out a bit. The core does look like a dream come true, but it also looks like it needs a couple of years to be production ready. That's all I got from one small segment of the feed.

Soooo....more videos and everything should fall into place. :D

Well done Newtek, it really does look wonderful :thumbsup:

Kuzey

Weetos
02-05-2009, 06:43 AM
I still don't understand people who yell at NT... Did NT lied when they announced they were doing that parallel changeover ? NO. Did they failed in doing so ? NO, 9.6 is the best version ever, and chances are this core version will allow NT and third parties to bring LW to new and unexpected levels. Was the 'live show' a mistake ? YES - Publishing the Core page as is would have been sufficient and anyway better than this video - but this fail doesn't change anything to the fact that CORE seems to have a lot to offer, that we still have to see - now, NT, please, do the show !

Oh and it seems we need serious clarification about the new pricing scheme, also.

Kuzey
02-05-2009, 06:50 AM
I still don't understand people who yell at NT... Did NT lied when they announced they were doing that parallel changeover ? NO. Did they failed in doing so ? NO, 9.6 is the best version ever, and chances are this core version will allow NT and third parties to bring LW to new and unexpected levels. Was the 'live show' a mistake ? YES - Publishing the Core page as is would have been sufficient and anyway better than this video - but this fail doesn't change anything to the fact that CORE seems to have a lot to offer, that we still have to see - now, NT, please, do the show !

Oh and it seems we need serious clarification about the new pricing scheme, also.

Actually....when the feeds, the NewTek and Spinquad forums went down when they did, it added to the whole experience...I loved it.

Of course the Core was going to melt down and take everything with it...after all it's a new age :D

Kuzey

geo_n
02-05-2009, 06:59 AM
Sorry I don't agree. The video was horrible beyond belief. I didn't want to comment about it but its a video that I would never show to my bosses or anyone else who would be paying for this software. But it will live forever in youtube now and I hope I'm not ridiculed by my maya and max collegues about my love for lightwave.
I'm not so sure if you're trying to protect newtek but weren't you jumping ship a few months back to xsi for the seeming lack of progress with lw? If you were giving negative comments about lw compared to xsi which you mention over and over before, then people are free to comment about how unprofessional the video launch of lw was. Its really that bad for one of the top four cg software companies. Anyway its not my concern to sell lightwave. I'm more concerned about the subscription which is still not as crystal clear which is wierd to have buyers in the dark.

biliousfrog
02-05-2009, 07:02 AM
I think that the reason why people are a little upset is this:

Although I personally appreciate the hard work put into developing a new app and taking the comments of us into consideration, I honestly think that what they have delivered so far is an embarrassment to the company.

It doesn't matter how small the team is, they created a lot of hype for the launch of the new product and failed miserably in the delivery, the same would have been thought of Autodesk, Adobe, Luxology...whoever. Does it mean that the product is bad?...no!...but it does mean that people won't take it seriously.

As for the product itself, it sounds great. Is it revolutionary or innovative?...no!

For Lightwave users it is a huge leap forward but in the grand scheme of things it's just a catch up to almost all other 3d apps. It doesn't mean that it's a bad product but when we've all been stirring up hype on their behalf, it's a little embarrassing for them to tell users of Max, Maya and XSI that their product is innovative and then show features that they've had for a decade. Especially when they also say that having 3 of the big 4 owned by one company is stifling innovation.

:thumbsup: for the new product

:thumbsdow for delivery

Red_Oddity
02-05-2009, 07:04 AM
We all had a good laugh at the presentation (yes, we rewatched it over here, very very corny, but a good laugh), BUT, we where able to look through it and see what was actually presented, a truly aw inspiring piece of work, even if we only got a glimps of what the final product will be (the techfaq promises ALOT.)

NT doesn't have a couple of million to spend on presentation, training monkeys in suits with excellent social skills and have large VIP parties for the top execs of possible customer companies (i always kind of get turned off by the Adobe and Autodesk presentations as they are more focused to wow your boss than you.)

For those who can't look through the way it was presented, i truly pity you (and that isn't meant in an offending way)

To NT, you can count my money, you conviced me already and i can't wait for the OB.

evolross
02-05-2009, 07:04 AM
I think what pissed a lot of people off was the pathetic request for money right now. The whole "buy in the dark" concept.

As for all the complaining, Newtek is used to it.

artstorm
02-05-2009, 07:05 AM
hrgiger: Well said. I completely agree. Last time I paid for LW was in 2005 I think, and have stayed current since then. That's astonishing in itself considering all things we've got since then. I have no problem at all with subscriptions or higher costs, as LW is the main application in my livelihood.

And another thing to have in mind, the dev team made a great deal of advancements with the old code base and really proved their talent. Imagine what they will be able to do with the new code base in the core platform that they have constructed themselves. I think we're in for real good times.

I am truly excited with the LightWave Core development.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 07:07 AM
[]Sorry I don't agree. The video was horrible beyond belief. I didn't want to comment about it but its a video that I would never show to my bosses or anyone else who would be paying for this software. But it will live forever in youtube now and I hope I'm not ridiculed by my maya and max collegues about my love for lightwave.
I'm not so sure if you're trying to protect newtek but weren't you jumping ship a few months back to xsi for the seeming lack of progress with lw? If you were giving negative comments about lw compared to xsi which you mention over and over before, then people are free to comment about how unprofessional the video launch of lw was. Its really that bad for one of the top four cg software companies. Anyway its not my concern to sell lightwave. I'm more concerned about the subscription which is still not as crystal clear which is wierd to have buyers in the dark.

Ok, the color's really annoying.
I didn't exactly jump ship to go use XSI, I wanted to focus on character animation and I didn't feel then that Lightwave's character animation was up to par. Then Autodesk bought out Avid and now owns XSI. Which pretty much discouraged me from continuing to use and upgrade XSI. And I never made negative comments about Lightwave. I was always respectful towards Newtek and gave them much credit for what had been accomplished since Jay Roth took the helm. Much of Lightwave 9's focus was on rendering and lighting but I wanted to see more focus on modeling and rigging/animation. So I took a break. In the end, the power of Fprime and LWCAD brought me back into using LW more and out of the grips of a major innovation killing corporate conglomerate like Autodesk.
I think people are making a bigger deal about it then it should be. The video was not horrible beyond belief. It was cheesy with a cheesy background, but the information given was solid and clear. I'm sure a lot of us would have liked to have seen a lot more. But again, to focus so much on the video presentation and not so much on what is going on with Lightwave development is just inane.

Kuzey
02-05-2009, 07:10 AM
It is what it was...just a glimpse only. A very short introduction.

There will be more videos down the road and it'll focus on different parts of the Core.

Kuzey

Weetos
02-05-2009, 07:26 AM
It is what it was...just a glimpse only. A very short introduction.

There will be more videos down the road and it'll focus on different parts of the Core.

Kuzey

Yes, more videos ! we wanna see what's inside this thing ! would have been great is NT already had some more videos to show (like one new each day after the revealing, just to keep people attracted) - if they wait too long, there will be flame wars for sure on the forums

JeffrySG
02-05-2009, 07:28 AM
I'm actually still stunned that we'll be able to get our hands on something in a few weeks. Amazing!

I still have questions about the new pricing, but in the end, this is much more than I was ever expecting!

Presentation and any broadcast issues aside, this will be one wild upgrade/update!

I hope NT knows that there will always be a vocal minority that will complain about little things. The real stuff is what happens in the next few months.

alexos
02-05-2009, 07:31 AM
(...)
As for the product itself, it sounds great. Is it revolutionary or innovative?...no!
(...) that their product is innovative and then show features that they've had for a decade...


Oh, but come ON. So it isn't innovative. And you know this how exactly? The information given in the video is ridiculously scarce; and the webpage, yeah, wow, it gives a lot of information about the new software architecture, standards and whatnot, but I would hardly call it a full description of a product. Lighting? Surfacing? Rendering engine? Speed? You know - those tiny, insignificant things that ultimately make the difference between a killer app and "yet another one"? We know nothing about those. So why jump to those dire conclusions?

And besides - give me a Lightwave that can do everything Max or Maya can do, in addition to what it already does, and I will happily disregard innovation. I've never felt the need to have "the tool that nobody else has" anyway.

ADP.

cresshead
02-05-2009, 08:07 AM
i agree on the flame's fanned toward the presenters was extreemly harsh and quite nasty...whoever edited the vid and framed the camera shot's did not do a good job of putting the presenters in their best light...there should have been a tight shot of jay when he was speaking and not a full frame with jonas beside him for long takes..

this was not a live video btw...it was recorded and edited i believe on rewatching it on youtube today.

jonas presented just fine once he was the focus and demo's well in my opinion.

next vids could do well with one of the live set's from tricaster..say the news set seeing as they are delivering lightwave core news...


we've seen just the smallest glimpse of lightwave core..we can't judge it just yet...plenty of time to see more info before the march 31st deadline looms and we look toward our credit cards!

wildr3d
02-05-2009, 08:24 AM
NT doesn't have a couple of million to spend on presentation, training monkeys in suits with excellent social skills and have large VIP parties for the top execs of possible customer companies (i always kind of get turned off by the Adobe and Autodesk presentations as they are more focused to wow your boss than you.)

I have to disagree with some of your points, a good presentation should not require lots of money, simple is better. I would've been just as happy to see them do this in a office with some Core and Newtek posters in the background. Newtek has been known to give impressive demos and booth presentations for events like Siggraph that although not as big as some, had a very professional feel that does matter to new customers who might only see Lightwave at such an event. As one of the so called 10 year+ users of Lightwave, I know Newtek has a non rigid, hip and sometimes corny side to them, but in the case of such a major announcement with all the world watching, a simple to the point demo that showcases what's new is more effective.

Now lets all calm down and hope Newtek throws a kickass HardCORE Vegas Party!!!!!:thumbsup::newtek::D

zapper1998
02-05-2009, 08:26 AM
I agree to both sides....

phillydee
02-05-2009, 08:42 AM
Personally I wasn't annoyed at any of the issues with presentation--I knew I couldn't watch the live stream anyway (due to current locale) and figured that the NT servers were getting ridiculous hits which made the forum pages not load up; these are really non-issues for me--I've been using Lightwave for the better part of my life and being able to understand what they were actually trying to present made the difference for me--who cares if there were mis-cues and off-timed cuts. Sure, if you're trying to appeal to the aesthetically sound Mac crowd that are used to prestine-white polished lab-sterile Steve Jobs presentations, then I guess it was rather a disappointment(no hard feelings please, Mac users--I love Macs just as much as the next guy, just not rich enough to get me a mac-book pro...).

Am I extremely excited about an Object Oriented app? Absolutely. Am I excited about python scripting? You betcha. (I didn't care if they used Python to automatically generate a torus--I would have been equally excited if the script they executed created an array of useless cubes) Am I excited that it's re-written from the ground up in C++ with multi-core capabilities? Totally--and let's just say my core i7 will be a really happy camper. The announcement of these features alone have eclipsed what some called a terrible presentation. I would have felt the same excitement in the end if I had Chris Landreth or Proton or Taron or Kiki (OK maybe not) revealed what Jay and Jonas revealed.

And the ability for 9x users to jump in ASAP--ridiculously sweet.

My two cents only.

mikala
02-05-2009, 08:44 AM
Guys if you want to see some really asshat comments go to the Luxology site.
Some real winners yapping over there. They are all talking like Modo is kicking LW's *** when it still can't do everything LW can. With the introduction of LWX it's handing them their *** with all the new features and abilities. Sure they are only a list of what it will do but still it will kick butt if half of the list comes to pass.

Andyjaggy
02-05-2009, 08:46 AM
Modo sucks.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 08:48 AM
I was super duper impressed with the general DIRECTION their brand spanking new software is headed. That is ALL I ever wanted to see. So GOOD job NT!

archijam
02-05-2009, 08:49 AM
HR: To your first post -

Well said sir! :thumbsup:

It will be lost on many, but them's the breaks. Thanks for taking the time.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 08:51 AM
Oh, but come ON. So it isn't innovative. And you know this how exactly? The information given in the video is ridiculously scarce; and the webpage, yeah, wow, it gives a lot of information about the new software architecture, standards and whatnot, but I would hardly call it a full description of a product. Lighting? Surfacing? Rendering engine? Speed? You know - those tiny, insignificant things that ultimately make the difference between a killer app and "yet another one"? We know nothing about those. So why jump to those dire conclusions?

And besides - give me a Lightwave that can do everything Max or Maya can do, in addition to what it already does, and I will happily disregard innovation. I've never felt the need to have "the tool that nobody else has" anyway.

ADP.


SO very true. Common guys, NT has to get the BASICS right before they get super innovative anyway, I believer they are doing that now and that is awesome! Besides, we haven't been let into the entire picture yet anyway.

caccipergolo
02-05-2009, 08:53 AM
hrgiger thankyou very much!

biliousfrog
02-05-2009, 08:57 AM
Guys if you want to see some really asshat comments go to the Luxology site.
Some real winners yapping over there. They are all talking like Modo is kicking LW's *** when it still can't do everything LW can. With the introduction of LWX it's handing them their *** with all the new features and abilities. Sure they are only a list of what it will do but still it will kick butt if half of the list comes to pass.

But wouldn't 99% of people on here do the same if Lux did such a poor presentation?...or Autodesk or Adobe?

I think that, from an outsider's perspective, it's perfectly natural to laugh at how LW Core was revealed to the world. Having had time to dig a little deeper I'm quite excited about having Max/Maya/XSI/Houdini and Lightwave all in one bundle but it has taken me all day to find that information out. I very much doubt that anyone NOT using Lightwave would bother to search the forums for the YouTube links or look for the tidbits of information on the website. Instead they are left with the image of two guys on the set of a LucasArts game talking about costs to join the beta rather than demonstrating the cool new features.

JeffrySG
02-05-2009, 09:00 AM
Guys if you want to see some really asshat comments go to the Luxology site.
Some real winners yapping over there. They are all talking like Modo is kicking LW's *** when it still can't do everything LW can. With the introduction of LWX it's handing them their *** with all the new features and abilities. Sure they are only a list of what it will do but still it will kick butt if half of the list comes to pass.

My software can beat up your software.

LOL at fanboys... I'd be happy if every 3d app kicked a**. It's so funny when people get so attached to a piece of software. There can be more than one great app.

cresshead
02-05-2009, 09:05 AM
read this

http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94787

AbnRanger
02-05-2009, 09:08 AM
I will agree ONLY if this question is answered:

Ok... I'll be blunt.

CORE looks interesting, but until I get a favorable answer to THIS question, NT and I aren't on good terms.

One of the stated "benefits" of HardCORE is getting updates to 9.x

Does this mean that those of us who can't afford HardCORE are now screwed out of bugfixes and updates? Are any future updates now reserved for the "elite" members???

If this is true, I must say I am VERY upset with NT. :2guns::I_Love_Ne
:cursin::lwicon::tsktsk:As long as there is a "9" in the name, there is no reason to assume NT is suddenly going to cut you off.

If you noticed, those who don't currently own a seat of LW will get 9.x AND HardCORE membership...thus you get 9.x improvements as well as new CORE builds. So, what Jay was saying is that if you don't already have a LW 9 seat, you get that as well as new LW CORE builds...when you purchase a HardCORE membership.

JBT27
02-05-2009, 09:10 AM
It's a bloody shame that the whole presentation made it open-season on NT....AGAIN.....

But cut through the failed hype and the crap and morning after flak, and actually what you have is a monumental announcement for the future of LW - there was talk all through last year of whether there had been a parallel development going on.....and here now is the answer.

NT appear to be delivering, and more than that, delivering on what the users have been asking for.

No telling yet of course, and clearly those who want it are heading for a paid-beta, but this surely is a success and should be viewed as such.

Julian.

mikala
02-05-2009, 09:16 AM
My software can beat up your software.

LOL at fanboys... I'd be happy if every 3d app kicked a**. It's so funny when people get so attached to a piece of software. There can be more than one great app.
It would be nice though if Mr P would say "Enough now boys" instead of letting them run their mouths off like they actually know anything at all. Which is obvious...they don't.

Red_Oddity
02-05-2009, 09:32 AM
I have to disagree with some of your points, a good presentation should not require lots of money, simple is better. I would've been just as happy to see them do this in a office with some Core and Newtek posters in the background. Newtek has been known to give impressive demos and booth presentations for events like Siggraph that although not as big as some, had a very professional feel that does matter to new customers who might only see Lightwave at such an event. As one of the so called 10 year+ users of Lightwave, I know Newtek has a non rigid, hip and sometimes corny side to them, but in the case of such a major announcement with all the world watching, a simple to the point demo that showcases what's new is more effective.

Now lets all calm down and hope Newtek throws a kickass HardCORE Vegas Party!!!!!:thumbsup::newtek::D

Very true, can't argue with your points there, we discussed that over here aswell, these were the main points we had:

1] A clean empty background would have helped a lot more (not to mention the horrible lighting, right now it's a gray muddled afair with a corny CG background)

2] please wear something a bit more presentable next time (a simple shirt with a single breasted jacket does wonders, eventhough it isn't the way NT is, as we have seen, people are shallow and attach alot of value to presentation, especially your boss :p ), i feel sorry for all the flak Jonas got because of the shirt, as not only LW-ers were watching, probably half the CG world was watching.

3] Start the presentation on time, especially after generating so much interrest/hype with a very well thought out viral campaign. I got the feeling something went horribly wrong on the NT side as everything was down (NewTek, Ustream, Spinquad), did someone break the HDD with the real presentation?

Tobian
02-05-2009, 10:00 AM
Well spinquad isn't run on Newteks server, so I suspect it was just the sheer number of people trying to find out what was going on, and it took their server down, after Newteks went down! :)

I agree totally Hrgeiger. I do think LW needs to polish it's act, but the personal insults are below the belt given that from that video Newtek Do listen to what we say on here. While not live it was clearly quite recent, from their comments!

Congrats to Newtek, and now the deadline has passed, and you can relax and take a bit more time, I look forward to seeing more! :)

virtualcomposer
02-05-2009, 10:02 AM
I'm confused. Is LW core actually LW10? Or a companion to LW 9?

Tobian
02-05-2009, 10:07 AM
Completely new version.

See http://www.newtek.com/core/ for details.

ben martin
02-05-2009, 10:09 AM
I'm confused. Is LW core actually LW10? Or a companion to LW 9?

Core is the future of Lightwave.
You can, however, use 9.6 parallel to Core... but the Lightwave old cycle ends in 9.6 and a new world begins in Core.
I guess sooner or later 9.6 will be discontinued like the 8 cycle was.

virtualcomposer
02-05-2009, 10:10 AM
So no LW 10 then?

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:10 AM
I'm confused. Is LW core actually LW10? Or a companion to LW 9?

Well, they're not calling it 10. But it pretty much is.

Which begs the question, what will the next version be? Core 2? Lightwave 11? Petey wheatstraw?

mikala
02-05-2009, 10:11 AM
Does the naming convention really matter? It's the NEW Lightwave :)

Jockomo
02-05-2009, 10:11 AM
I think what pissed a lot of people off was the pathetic request for money right now. The whole "buy in the dark" concept.

As for all the complaining, Newtek is used to it.

It is a well known and established practice for an artist to ask for Half up front and Half upon delivery. I hope next time you ask your client for half up front they tell you they are pissed at your pathetic request for money up front. And why should they pay for artwork up front if they don't know if they will like it. Maybe you should do the artwork and let them decide if they like it before paying you. (Not to mention the fact that NewTek won't even be asking for the second half on delivery)

I think "a lot of people" should just stfu and pay for the finished version when it is out of beta - if they don't like the idea of paying for beta. Would you prefer the rest of us didn't have a choice in the matter?

Jockomo
02-05-2009, 10:15 AM
Does the naming convention really matter? It's the NEW Lightwave :)

I really really hope they don't abandon the naming convention they have held since the beginning. If I tell you that I've used lightwave since v2 that means something. If I tell you that I have been using lightwave since version inspire... well chances are you wouldn't have a clue what I am talking about.

marketing naming conventions suck. Giving LW10 a nickname is fine, but don't abandon the old convention.

flakester
02-05-2009, 10:25 AM
Correct you are, HR.

I apologise unreservedly for referring to Jonas as 'The Scary Grey Man' in one of my replies, earlier in a different thread.
He already had my respect when I wrote my comment [I couldn't do what he did in front of a camera], and it was honestly meant as a toungue-in-cheek thing; I intended no offence.

Sorry Jonas.

I am still jealous of his NewTek longsleeve top though. Seriously, I want one of those.

I am also genuinely excited about CORE and what it will become.

Aside from that, I did no hissing, so I'll raise a glass of beer to Jonas and the CORE this eve and I'm settled. Almost anything can be settled over a beer :thumbsup: .

--
flakester.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:26 AM
Very cool of you Flakester.

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 10:35 AM
I like the idea of calling it Lightwave Core 1.0 since it is a completely new platform!

ben martin
02-05-2009, 10:38 AM
Modo sucks.
Modo sucks too! :)

Kaptive
02-05-2009, 10:41 AM
I think HR was pretty much spot on with his original post.

The presentation, and the delays on getting it out there were a little frustrating, but who cares really? That will be forgotten in the next week.

The key point is the new Lightwave. It is a totally new piece of software. It will feel part of the Lightwave family, but it is like a new son.

Right now, we know what we get with 9.6... it is a damn good piece of software. They don't need to tell us all about the rendering and lighting now do they? We know for a fact it will be as good as we have now, if not better and probably faster!

The key point, and it is what HR picked up on too, is the 3rd party support in the SDK. It is going to be amazing, phenominal what 3rd parties are going to be able to do with this. An example is Fprime. How long have we wished that fprime could render a scene to look exactly like the internal renderer? With shaders, plug-ins, volumetrics etc etc... Well now it will be able to.
I'm no programmer, but I do know that this is going to make some incredibly powerful additions available to us in the future. No more 'limitations lists' in the plugin FAQs.

I have been working in lightwave for about 11 years, and never had the time or inclination to switch to/learn Max/maya etc. I've always been busy and in work. But change can be a bit scary. The ste from 5.6 to 6 was a bit frustrating at first, and I'm sure that 9.6 to Core is going to be a bit of a challenge. But when you get there, and you have got to grips with it, there will be no looking back, I am sure of it.

One other thing is that the new architecture is going to open up the market for Lightwave, but more importantly... us! Could we see games companies switching to Core? In time, I think yes.
How about Collada? Lightwave is going to become a key player in delivery of web based 3d is it not?

In a climate of job losses etc, it is vital that Lightwave on your CV is a serious boost, not hinderence. If it had stayed on the same track as it was, then it would have potentially ended up a dead end road. Core had to happen sooner or later, and quite honestly it couldn't have been left much longer.

Finally, I don't know much about the internal workings of the Newtek Dev team, but I get the impression from some people who do know, that there is fresh blood in there. This more than anything is what is going to make Core truly great. New blood have new ideas, fresh approach, and a real zest for a new platform. It brings the excitment back, instead of continuously fixing/updating an old piece of software. These are exciting times for us and Newtek. I think they need our support, just as we need theirs.

In a years time, when you are creating amazing scenes and animation that you would struggle to do in the current version, you won't really care if the launch video was a bit dodgy. I'm sure we and they wil look back and laugh about it. All is good in the Newtek camp, and may they get better and better for years to come.

I raise a glass to the Newtek and the Dev team. Well done guys, I can't wait!

Kris

jasonwestmas
02-05-2009, 10:46 AM
2] please wear something a bit more presentable next time (a simple shirt with a single breasted jacket does wonders, eventhough it isn't the way NT is, as we have seen, people are shallow and attach alot of value to presentation, especially your boss :p ), i feel sorry for all the flak Jonas got because of the shirt, as not only LW-ers were watching, probably half the CG world was watching.



I don't agree with #2, I thought Jonas looked super cool in that super nerd kind of way. I was too busy being impressed with that huge brain of his to notice the shirt. :hey:

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 10:49 AM
It is going to be amazing, phenominal what 3rd parties are going to be able to do with this. An example is Fprime. How long have we wished that fprime could render a scene to look exactly like the internal renderer? With shaders, plug-ins, volumetrics etc etc... Well now it will be able to.


Not sure about Fprime and Core. While yes, third parties will be able to gain access to anything in Core through the SDK, we don't know that Fprime will work with it. As I understand, to get Fprime to work in current versions of lightwaver, there is a certain amount of hackery going on. So while we know that you can build a fast interactive renderer, we don't know that the answer yet is fprime or something that Newtek will do or even if it's on the drawing board to implement. Hopefully Newtek has been planning on such an issue, as they should know just how important Fprime has been for a lot of Lightwave users. Frankly, I think Fprime has saved a lot of Lightwave users from going elsewhere and Newtek would be wise to consider that as they develop Core.

Davoid
02-05-2009, 10:50 AM
Totally agree with hrgiger. me I can't wait to see where Lightwave (Core) is headed.

archijam
02-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Modo sucks too! :)
Modcasts suck too.
And you know what the next smug reportage will be about...

wp_capozzi
02-05-2009, 11:13 AM
If you read our wish lists and speculations from the past year or two Newtek appears to have built new software in that image. I'm thoroughly excited for it.

As far as the video presentation, if we all could just laugh with it and not at it. I personally wanted to see something different than that, I guess what really dropped me of a cliff was the total blackout right at the climax of the countdown. That is probably what brought a frustrated critical eye from many people. The information they revealed keeps me coming back to watch and re-read the Core page info. Hope there is more soon. The video could have been better, but as it was explained, all is well. Hmm... an overlay of Joel, Tom Servo, and Crow T. Robot might have made all the difference.

Anyway I look at it, there is some great software from the good people at Newtek coming down the pipe!

Pavlov
02-05-2009, 11:13 AM
i Agree on all points and also on Fprime, but nowadays i find myself using fprime less and less. And i'm a diehard Fprime fan.
LW's engine alone is quite fast and gives a nice GI preview in seconds. Kray is unbeatable as prodution engine and has native instancing.
So Fprime is falling behing today, not to mention it lacks instancing, something i really cant do without anymore. I agree Fprime should be kept in account, but a big Fprime update is due as well. Given new SDK capabilities, i hope mr. Worley will come back to produce wonders as usual.

Paolo

Tobian
02-05-2009, 11:21 AM
You can bet worley will be getting in to the LWCore beta the same as everyone else and would have till Q4 to play with it to see if he can get Fprime to work with it, much like we know he has been working with Fprime during the LW9.x cycle (as evidenced by the latest leaked vids).. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a lot of the info already, if not an early beta :D

CGI Addict
02-05-2009, 11:31 AM
NewTek as the ball on their 1 yard line, to the 5, the 10, they're making a break for it, 25, to the 30 line, folks they could go all the wwwaaaaayyyyyyy, to the 50, 45, 30, 20, I can't believe it, they're gonna . . . to the 10, 5, 4, 3, 2 . . . . oh my God, they fumbled it on the 1 yard line.

That's how I felt yesterday. Not about the app or possibly its potential for what little we did see, but about the way it was handled. Remember a lot of hype was made out of this announcement. Everyone, companies, individuals, competitors, etc. tuned in to watch NewTek walk on water.

It stunk up the joint. Presentation is half the equation. Now matter how great the app might have been, the showing just further cemented what a lot of others think of LightWave. Some of you zealots might not believe this, but this show wasn't as much for you as it was NewTek's way of trying to sell to skeptics and potential future users. I am a faithful user of LW. I appreciate the potential that CORE may offer and with addtional video incentive will probably be buying into it soon. I like alot of what's on the CORE site.

But make no mistake, NewTek had the internet to itself yesterday and blew it out. My tip: Put as much effort into presentation as you do the app itself. That will pay big dividends. There's no getting around it.

From a current happy LW 9.6 user. :thumbsup:

Kaptive
02-05-2009, 12:02 PM
I absolutely agree with what you say on fprime. I used to use it so much, but now the lightwave renderer is so fast, and looks better, I barely use it except for zooming in on areas for texturing to make sure of scale rotation etc.

The only reason I used fprime as an example is because it is a plugin that most are either aware of or use/have used. It is probably one of those plugins that everyone who has ever used it, was aware of its limitations with regard to the current SDK. It is a good example to explain the difference between current LW and Core.

I kind of feel for companies like Happy Digital, when Newtek add instancing to their in built tools. Typically, i literally bought HD_Instance yesterday, and then watched the Core video lol. But that said, it is an amazing plugin, and is another prime reason why I am switching back onto the internal Lightwave renderer.
Anyway, I'm harping on... bored i think.

Actually, one thing I will say... I don't think the launch is that big a deal. Good to raise interest and get people talking, but it is what comes in the next few months that will sell it long term. I think Newtek would be wise however, to create a really professional presentation piece about Core that can be downloaded and watched. As people start using the beta versions and start creating amazing visuals, they will turn peoples heads.
I've already had some pretty cool ideas based upon some of the things they talk about in the techfaq.

The ability to use one part of the system to affect any other part of the system presents some excellent ways to create visuals that will have a very original look about them.

http://i42.tinypic.com/117cvtt.jpg

It is like having a massive switchboard, and plugging things into other things to see what happens. I feel like Core is going to be such a creative package, that will produce some amazing renders. Excited? Muchly :)

Kris

ncr100
02-05-2009, 01:26 PM
I am completely apalled that people are referring to Jonas as the man in gray or Spock or whatever has been said.

Sorry that my reaction upset you hrgiger. My grey-man/alien reaction was not intended to upset you. We're all in this together. I'm looking forward to NT repairing this image publicly for our sakes.

I felt it was appropriate for the NT guys to receive some characterizations by me over that presentation. This marketing event set them up way high so when they fell, failing to accurately represent their personal relevance through the video, a very unflattering image of them was defined and telegraphed beyond our LW community. "I'm associated with that?" was what I thought. That video is still upsetting for me to watch and it yesterday was hard to accept as a new fact of life in how LW will to integrate into my future. I appreciate their apology.

NT's aftermath feedback ("That was [painful].") indicates the presentation was not under their best control; I envision a ski-sled speeding down an icy hill.

To explain my adoption of "grey man" and use of alien per-se I transformed the negative implications into positives, empathizing with an "in the trenches" attitude, and sought to depersonalize the presenters as being actors playing a part. Sometimes actors act in bad productions, and the productions can be saved if they're seen as comical, like in bad sci-fi movies. Given how vaguely the guys defined themselves I think these characterizations are good contributions.

The product itself looks fine.

The guys have indicated they will repair the image they defined yesterday. I am looking forward to this.

Again, sorry for contributing to your sense of dismay,
Nick

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 01:40 PM
Again, sorry for contributing to your sense of dismay,
Nick

It's not about my sense of dismay. We can all agree that the presentation could have been better but I found people could have been a lot more respectful considering what implications that this has for us under Lightwave.
You have two software developers who are not actors showcasing what they've been working on for the past two years behind the scenes and instead of really talking about, excuse the expression, core issue, everyone turns into Siskel and Ebert and the cinematic achievements or lack thereof of a software presentation from two coders.

virtualcomposer
02-05-2009, 01:43 PM
I think CORE is going to boost LW credibility and what does that mean? In a struggling job market today it will be good to tell a potential client or employer that we use a software package like CORE. I think it will raise eyebrows and boost everyone's chance of finding more work and our credibility.

Red_Oddity
02-05-2009, 01:45 PM
I don't agree with #2, I thought Jonas looked super cool in that super nerd kind of way. I was too busy being impressed with that huge brain of his to notice the shirt. :hey:

I didn't at first aswell, but then i read the horrible horrible comments about the way they looked (on multiple forums) and it seemed i had forgoten how shallow some people can be.

I'm still wondering whether NT has such a great product and balls the size of bowling balls that they are confident enough to show up like that when showing their product for the first time or wheter they are just plain B5/ST fruity fan boys :D

ncr100
02-05-2009, 01:51 PM
It's not about my sense of dismay. We can all agree that the presentation could have been better but I found people could have been a lot more respectful considering what implications that this has for us under Lightwave.
You have two software developers who are not actors showcasing what they've been working on for the past two years behind the scenes and instead of really talking about, excuse the expression, core issue, everyone turns into Siskel and Ebert and the cinematic achievements or lack thereof of a software presentation from two coders.

You were shocked at the lack of respect shown to the NT guys.

I hope you accept my explanation and personal apology.

hrgiger
02-05-2009, 02:04 PM
You were shocked at the lack of respect shown to the NT guys.

I hope you accept my explanation and personal apology.

Sorry, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or sarcastic. Being about 90% sarcastic myself, it's hard to pick up on others sometimes when they are being serious. Like I said, it's not about me and you don't owe me anything by any stretch of the imagination. I wasn't personally upset, I just felt bad for Jay and Jonas who are obviously proud of the work that has gone into this new version of Lightwave. I just thought we owed them more then that.
I'm hoping as well as you that the next presentation is put together with a little more forethought. Personally though, I just think all the hype Newtek built up over the last few weeks worked against them. There was no way that there weren't going to be a lot of disappointed people after such build up.

GregMalick
02-05-2009, 02:15 PM
Guys if you want to see some really asshat comments go to the Luxology site.
Some real winners yapping over there. They are all talking like Modo is kicking LW's *** when it still can't do everything LW can. With the introduction of LWX it's handing them their *** with all the new features and abilities. Sure they are only a list of what it will do but still it will kick butt if half of the list comes to pass.

I think the comments that were made by Brad Peebler & William Vaughan in that Luxology thread pretty much sum up my feelings. Paraphrased: "Chill out. It's only software - not a religion."

Not all Modo users hate LightWave just like not all LW users hate Modo.
I use both Modo & LightWave and I fully understand that both have their strengths & weaknesses (and they always will).

BTW, my LWCore purchasing decision will be based upon the answers I get to questions I've posted in a couple threads in the NT Forum and which have also been sent to NewTek West Coast Marketing.

ncr100
02-05-2009, 02:20 PM
Sorry, I wasn't sure if you were being serious or sarcastic. Being about 90% sarcastic myself, it's hard to pick up on others sometimes when they are being serious. Like I said, it's not about me and you don't owe me anything by any stretch of the imagination. I wasn't personally upset, I just felt bad for Jay and Jonas who are obviously proud of the work that has gone into this new version of Lightwave. I just thought we owed them more then that.
I'm hoping as well as you that the next presentation is put together with a little more forethought. Personally though, I just think all the hype Newtek built up over the last few weeks worked against them. There was no way that there weren't going to be a lot of disappointed people after such build up.

Groovy. My sarcasm-generator is a bit cryptic. The NT community is the best. It's no fun going through rough spots though.

Yeah I'll load mass-props on Jay & Jonas and the rest of the team when they pump out some kickass demo content or when we are exposed to a build of the app. When it's right, things will be sorted out.

Thanks for the effort & concern,
Nick

Alkaline
02-05-2009, 02:28 PM
I've been involved with Lightwave for almost 8 years and have heard so much whining and so much crying about how Lightwave isn't integrated, and how Lightwave is behind the times, [/SIZE]

I myself have never made such complaints. I like the fact that Modeler and Layout are two separate applications. If I want to model, I can simply launch Modeler and not have all of those animation and rendering related tools in there. I've used an app that had it's modeling and animation/rendering tools all in one app before (Animation Master), the app was a major resource hog, and rendering times were horrendous. I moved to Lightwave and was amazed at how fast everything worked, and the overall power of Layout and Modeler. I can't see going back to an integrated app as of now. I'll have to see more of Core before I actually pass judgment, but right now I'm sticking with Lightwave 9.5.

warrenwc
02-05-2009, 02:44 PM
Personally, I'm glad that Newtek spends more on developers than on actors.
My money will be ready & I'm anxious to try the first Core beta.
(As soon as I get %[email protected]#*&!! Vista working).

rakker16mm
02-05-2009, 03:06 PM
I can't believe people are still even talking about the presentation. The delay was not Newtek's fault. And I think it is important to remember that these guys are not Shakespearean actors. So don't expect to see something as moving as Hamlet or A Midsummer Night’s Dream :thumbsup: Their day job is making great software and I think they have been doing a super job at that recently with the concurrent development of Core and 9.6!

Look at how fast the builds were coming out for 9.5 & 9.6 and all this while they were quietly working on Core. How is that not totally impressive? I guess they were too busy writing code to make a perfectly polished presentation.... Oh well.... Then again do you use their presentations to do your CG work or do you use their software? Personally I use Newtek's software to do my work so I am happy that is where they are OBVIOUSLY putting the bulk of their effort.

adamredwoods
02-05-2009, 03:16 PM
It's not about my sense of dismay. We can all agree that the presentation could have been better but I found people could have been a lot more respectful considering what implications that this has for us under Lightwave.
You have two software developers who are not actors showcasing what they've been working on for the past two years behind the scenes and instead of really talking about, excuse the expression, core issue, everyone turns into Siskel and Ebert and the cinematic achievements or lack thereof of a software presentation from two coders.

I was the one who called them "Jay and Silent Bob". I actually thought that was their intention in the beginning of the video.

JamesCurtis
02-05-2009, 03:18 PM
I think NT is going about this rather well myself. I personally missed the reveal broadcast myself due to client business and caught the vid on provided links from the others on this forum.

The reveal could have been polished some, BUT, I'd rather see them puting the most effort into development right now IMO!!

As far as the use of LW Core as a name for this new LW and whether it is to be considered LW10 is viewed by me as an efort to do as Adobe has done with regard to thier Creative Suite [CS]. I think Photoshop CS 4 is considered Photoshop 11 after all.

I think I like where NT is headed, and provided I have the cash at the time, I intend on getting LW Core before the end of March.

Earl
02-05-2009, 08:51 PM
Sorry I don't agree. The video was horrible beyond belief.
Your text color is horrible beyond belief, so I guess you and NewTek are even? :thumbsup:

I am a little embarrassed as well, but not really for NewTek, but for the people who said pretty lame things about Jay and Jonas. How many developers actually put themselves up (and live for that matter, as it was intended to be) to show off a new product? That was a brave thing to do and I would love it if they continued to do it. Obviously the presentation didn't go as planned, but that's no reason to be rude towards the developers.

So I too apologize for some of the unnecessary and baseless comments some people have made. It's one thing to level constructive criticism, but it's a whole different thing to hurl personal insults.

js33
02-05-2009, 10:42 PM
It would be nice though if Mr P would say "Enough now boys" instead of letting them run their mouths off like they actually know anything at all. Which is obvious...they don't.

He did a number of times. I have nothing but total respect for the way Brad handles things over there. :thumbsup:

jorge-madrid
02-05-2009, 11:12 PM
I applaud everyone for speaking up, We all have the right to say what we feel about the company we have put our faith and money for years.
As for NEWTEK , CORE is an example of a company listening to their customers, and Creating something that we As Artist and Programmers have been asking for .
We Thank you for all your effort to make this a memorable experience .
And Thank you for Bringing CORE to life.

:thumbsup: :newtek::rock:

MUCUS
02-06-2009, 12:50 AM
hrgiger thank you for this nice thread! I'm ashamed too by my reaction, and now with some days of reflexion, I only keep how core looks exiting, this is a really huge job newtek have done, and we all are waiting for that till years! So whatever the starting problem, we'll soon be able to show what lightwave can really do :thumbsup:

So all my apologies to newtek, and a big thank to you for developping core and in the same time giving free update for the 9.x serie! :lightwave

hazmat777
02-06-2009, 12:55 AM
I actually really liked hearing about Core straight from Jonas and Jay.

I would have preferred if it was more of an interview kind of feel to it instead though. A bit rough in places, but not the end of the world. I do hope that we have more demo vids/interviews from the developers themselves.

I thought it was actually a bit unreal just seeing almost every single thing that people have been asking for and some thought (me included :o ) impossible for NewTek. I shall never doubt again! :bowdown:

Now if my IRS check would just show up...:)

accom
02-06-2009, 12:57 AM
Just a few lines:

- First of all: THANK YOU, NT, for a very reasonable price of LW 8.0 and all the FREE upgrades, all to 9.6. I'm a very 'low-end' user, doing very trivial stuff, but the money invested into your product have payed off a long time ago.

- I really like what you did with 'the teaser campaign'! Congrats again!

- I hope to see more of Core videos... as said many times before. Keep it up! This way you can keep-us-on-adrenalin-rush. :D

- Yes, I will definetly get the Core, since my knowledge of LW and routine of using it is in progress and thus I enjoy every minute spent on it. If I - beeing a 'beginner', with my very simple and small 'projects' (they can hardly be called that way) - can pay off these expences, so can anybody else.

Fausto
02-06-2009, 08:52 AM
The information given in the video is ridiculously scarce; and the webpage, yeah, wow, it gives a lot of information about the new software architecture, standards and whatnot, but I would hardly call it a full description of a product. Lighting? Surfacing? Rendering engine? Speed? You know - those tiny, insignificant things that ultimately make the difference between a killer app and "yet another one"? We know nothing about those.

The only things I'd add to this is fine criticism of the presentation is: Why were Newtek so ill prepared to share more information of a clear and concise manner? Why after such a build up did they sputter to an embarrassing stop? The entire CROSS THE THRESHOLD TO LIGHTWAVE CORE was a good marketing ploy, it showed planning, it generated hype, all good things for a product I'm interested in seeing advance. The only thing they did wrong, they didn't give the final stroke, SUBSTANCE!

I'll tell you what was inane, that presentation was inane.. it lacked substance, it didn't accomplish as much as it could have in BUYER interest.. There wouldn't be people like me, who thought Newtek missed a great opportunity, if they'd just taken the time to do it properly.. Some say, why is this so important? Newtek thought it important, or they would have released the miserly amount of visual information through some forum posting.. They would have saved money doing it that way, and the hype would have matched the production.

Some offer that Newtek doesn't have 2 Million to do a proper presentation; Had they spent more than the 20 dollars they spent on this perhaps we wouldn't be having this debate, and everyone would be excited, not just the VOCAL minority..

AbnRanger
02-06-2009, 09:18 AM
The only things I'd add to this is fine criticism of the presentation is: Why were Newtek so ill prepared to share more information of a clear and concise manner? Why after such a build up did they sputter to an embarrassing stop? The entire CROSS THE THRESHOLD TO LIGHTWAVE CORE was a good marketing ploy, it showed planning, it generated hype, all good things for a product I'm interested in seeing advance. The only thing they did wrong, they didn't give the final stroke, SUBSTANCE!

I'll tell you what was inane, that presentation was inane.. it lacked substance, it didn't accomplish as much as it could have in BUYER interest.. There wouldn't be people like me, who thought Newtek missed a great opportunity, if they'd just taken the time to do it properly.. Some say, why is this so important? Newtek thought it important, or they would have released the miserly amount of visual information through some forum posting.. They would have saved money doing it that way, and the hype would have matched the production.

Some offer that Newtek doesn't have 2 Million to do a proper presentation; Had they spent more than the 20 dollars they spent on this perhaps we wouldn't be having this debate, and everyone would be excited, not just the VOCAL minority..

It was simply an appetizer (they said they would provide us more details soon) and yet you're throwing a tantrum when you should be pretty excited that what WAS shown is more than you knew few days ago. I figured there would be some substantial improvements, but this is miles beyond that...yet some, like yourself, HAVE to find a lemon to suck on. :cry:

Some will never be happy until they can find something to fuel their misery. :cursin:

Glendalough
02-06-2009, 09:54 AM
Sorry, I have to yell for a little bit.


I also see a lot of people signing up to the forums that frankly are probably just Lightwave haters, modo users...

I would say very few Modo users have negative feelings about Lightwave. Unfortunately, the opposite isn't true. This is probably due to the snotty marketing practices of Lux, somewhat similar to Apple's marketing.

NB. I use a Mac but don't like their marketing, they actually cost very little more than PCs and some would say less as OS and other things are free or part of the purchase. Just perception created by marketing. (iphone is same price as BBerry to run)

geothefaust
02-06-2009, 09:55 AM
I must agree with you Airborne (Hooah!).

Some people just don't know how to suck it up and drive on. Grow some testies there Fausto. It's a video. Life goes on.

As I said before, the product will sell itself. Don't be concerned with the low quality presentation, be concerned with the content.

Of course, if you'd like a nice shiny package with a bow on it, I can get one off to you. Mind you the contents will probably be the remnants of todays breakfast from my back side. :thumbsup:

Larry_g1s
02-06-2009, 10:19 AM
hrgiger I'm 100% behind you on this. I don't know how any sane person could disagree after looking at the Tech FAQ's...absolutely amazing!!! NT has absolute delivered (at least on paper) on some MAJOR expectations as far as the next LW is concerned.


If you have been a happy LW user, you should be ex tactic because it just got better.


I you hav been a frustrated LW user, you should be relieved because things that were frustrating you are going to be a thing of the past.


If you're not a LW user, but looking for a complete package that plays well with others, and at a price point that isn't going to break the bank...you've found it.

Fausto
02-06-2009, 10:35 AM
I must agree with you Airborne (Hooah!).

Some people just don't know how to suck it up and drive on. Grow some testies there Fausto. It's a video. Life goes on.

As I said before, the product will sell itself. Don't be concerned with the low quality presentation, be concerned with the content.

Of course, if you'd like a nice shiny package with a bow on it, I can get one off to you. Mind you the contents will probably be the remnants of todays breakfast from my back side. :thumbsup:

You seem more interested in tossing personal jabs out than stressing your view. Voice your opinion and leave it at that! I haven't attacked anyone here.. If you feel strongly enough to formulate a cohesive point of view why do you need to get personal in addition?

Fausto
02-06-2009, 10:39 AM
hrgiger I'm 100% behind you on this. I don't know how any sane person could disagree after looking at the Tech FAQ's...absolutely amazing!!! NT has absolute delivered (at least on paper) on some MAJOR expectations as far as the next LW is concerned.


If you have been a happy LW user, you should be ex tactic because it just got better.


I you hav been a frustrated LW user, you should be relieved because things that were frustrating you are going to be a thing of the past.


If you're not a LW user, but looking for a complete package that plays well with others, and at a price point that isn't going to break the bank...you've found it.


So just because someone has a different perspective than your own, you immediately question their sanity? While we're at it, why don't we also put down any persons that eat different foods, or dress differently, or have dissimilar cultural beliefs to our own.

GandB
02-06-2009, 10:42 AM
Of course, if you'd like a nice shiny package with a bow on it, I can get one off to you. Mind you the contents will probably be the remnants of todays breakfast from my back side.
This is exactly the type of unwarranted remarks that are uneeded here. This used to be a very friendly community. :thumbsdow

geothefaust
02-06-2009, 10:46 AM
You seem more interested in tossing personal jabs out than stressing your view. Voice your opinion and leave it at that! I haven't attacked anyone here.. If you feel strongly enough to formulate a cohesive point of view why do you need to get personal in addition?

Actually, sir, you did. In another thread. Keep that in mind when posting in other threads. You're negative tone and personal attacks do carry over from one to another. It's called reciprocation.

I made my point, which you just ignore. So one more time shall we?

If you can look past the low quality presentation, great features were shown. I don't care about the wrapping of the product, I just care what I can do with it = Don't judge a book by it's cover.

geothefaust
02-06-2009, 10:46 AM
This is exactly the type of unwarranted remarks that are uneeded here. This used to be a very friendly community. :thumbsdow

It still is, the man already laid a personal jab at me in another thread, I'm just reciprocating. :)

GandB
02-06-2009, 10:49 AM
Then it sounds like some moderators need to come in and start cleaning a few of these threads up. Before it reflects on the new/potential users.

Fausto
02-06-2009, 11:01 AM
.
You have two software developers who are not actors showcasing what they've been working on for the past two years behind the scenes and instead of really talking about, excuse the expression, core issue, everyone turns into Siskel and Ebert and the cinematic achievements or lack thereof of a software presentation from two coders.

Now you're scrambling to justify your rhetoric.. You're over simplifying what was being said by Lightwave users that were unimpressed with the roll out launch. This was a marketing exercise with a clear MARKETING INTENT. They failed, and with that failure comes certain ramifications.

1) less interest than they wanted or needed from their loyal user base and or potential newcomers.
2) speculation, they're not as far along their development path as they should be after 2 years.
3) reduced respect from the industry as a whole.

Even Newtek recognizing that their presentation was a disaster should lend support to this POV. I'm sure by their own analytics they didn't meet their target result from this MARKETING EXERCISE.

Look, if I wasn't interested in seeing NT succeed, would I be spending as much time on this issue? Would I have taken the time to write about this, when I should have been at the driving range?

Fausto
02-06-2009, 11:18 AM
Actually, sir, you did. In another thread. Keep that in mind when posting in other threads. You're negative tone and personal attacks do carry over from one to another. It's called reciprocation.

I made my point, which you just ignore. So one more time shall we?

If you can look past the low quality presentation, great features were shown. I don't care about the wrapping of the product, I just care what I can do with it = Don't judge a book by it's cover.

I didn't ignore your point, I asked what features? Detachable tool bars (done) Skinable UI? (done) Stack? (done) Integration of Modeler and Layout? (done) What truly innovative features are you eluding to?

Is this an improvement over 9.6? Perhaps, but I didn't see enough of what's there to really make that assessment without deploying some faith. Does the FAQ look promising, yes, I'll give you that, but until I see how that's coming along, (how the concepts are being executed) I WON'T KNOW!!!

The gist of what I was saying was, NEWTEK MISSED A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO GENERATE SOME MOMENTUM!!!
That's it..

Why some see fit to attack me over that, well, I'm dubious.

Pavlov
02-06-2009, 11:19 AM
Look, if I wasn't interested in seeing NT succeed, would I be spending as much time on this issue?

Probably you spent too much time, effectively.
Your argument is clear and it got to destination, and partially i can agree too. But the product is not its marketing, and it will sell itself when done, if done well.


Paolo

Larry_g1s
02-06-2009, 11:21 AM
So just because someone has a different perspective than your own, you immediately question their sanity? While we're at it, why don't we also put down any persons that eat different foods, or dress differently, or have dissimilar cultural beliefs to our own.Chill out, it's a figure of speech. And I still stand by it. You can't honestly look at that tech FAQ, being a 3D user, and not be excited...I don't care what app it's for.

Fausto
02-06-2009, 11:38 AM
Probably you spent too much time, effectively.
Your argument is clear and it got to destination, and partially i can agree too. But the product is not its marketing, and it will sell itself when done, if done well.


Paolo

I hope so..

And you're probably right..
Molto Grazie

Kaptive
02-06-2009, 11:54 AM
The thing is... to me, this presentation was particularly aimed at developers of 3rd party software... not the artists.

It is a year until a proper release. Hardcore is essential for 3rd party developers. It gives them access to the software early, and more importantly the developers. When Lightwave comes to launch properly, to the main CG market, there will be some great tools available I'm sure.

I'm also pretty sure some of the more tech based artists out there will find hardcore a good process to be involved in.

Myself, I am just an artist. If I join hardcore, it will be to get to grips with Core and its way of working before full release. The initial launch was purely to explain that basically... the limitations of the past have now been removed, and pretty much anything will now be possible with the right tools (either native to lightwave, but more importantly tools created within a 3rd party).

Actual functionality of Core isn't all that relevant right now because the final stage of the process is what is happening/being refined over the coming year.

Am I alone in this view point, or should it have been a demo for artists?

Kris

Nemoid
02-06-2009, 12:00 PM
Nt team deserves great respect.

They released 9.6 which is a good piece of software AND also compliled this core.
Presentation could have been way better ? yes.

But they apologized, too. They said something went wrong with the show either.
They also said they will give us other videos and further information :thumbsup: so i'd just chill out and wait patiently for that.

Surely, in general, i wish their marketing would be way better than it is.
I said this many times in several occasions.

At the end though the product is what matters.

Be happy ! Lw has a bright future with Core.:thumbsup:

geothefaust
02-06-2009, 12:01 PM
I didn't ignore your point, I asked what features? Detachable tool bars (done) Skinable UI? (done) Stack? (done) Integration of Modeler and Layout? (done) What truly innovative features are you eluding to?

Is this an improvement over 9.6? Perhaps, but I didn't see enough of what's there to really make that assessment without deploying some faith. Does the FAQ look promising, yes, I'll give you that, but until I see how that's coming along, (how the concepts are being executed) I WON'T KNOW!!!

The gist of what I was saying was, NEWTEK MISSED A GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO GENERATE SOME MOMENTUM!!!
That's it..

Why some see fit to attack me over that, well, I'm dubious.

No one is disagreeing with you on the missed opportunity point!!! You're too busy whining about it to notice anything else. There is no point in brooding over the past, especially when it has nothing to do with you. Or does it? Is that why you're so antsy? Give me a break.

As for personal attacks, you know where it came from and why. So don't play ignorance. That's all I need say about that.

rakker16mm
02-06-2009, 01:00 PM
OK we're still talking about the video? Come on guys. This is about the software. Core is not finished. Newtek is being very upfront about that. Hardcore is a chance to help shape the development of Core. The benefits are pretty clear. There is a substantial discount being offered for joining now and really no penalty for not joining. So for all the people who are not interested there is no need to worry. You can go with life as usual.

For those who do not wish to take part in the Hardcore program I am asking you respectfully to simply take a wait and see approach. This is not for everyone and I respect that, but when people start whaling on every flaw in the reveal it has the potential of putting a real damper on participation in the beta program, and that hurts us all because if Newtek is going to develop Core into the great software program of tomorrow they need our help today.



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Fausto
02-06-2009, 01:27 PM
No one is disagreeing with you on the missed opportunity point!!! You're too busy whining about it to notice anything else. There is no point in brooding over the past, especially when it has nothing to do with you. Or does it? Is that why you're so antsy? Give me a break.

As for personal attacks, you know where it came from and why. So don't play ignorance. That's all I need say about that.

Perhaps, taking your own advice and cooling the vitriol may be a good idea. If your first comments to my thread would have been simply your point of view and why, we wouldn't have had the exchange..
.. Honestly, you're simply getting more and more ridiculous with each comment.

Frank_Geppert
02-06-2009, 01:40 PM
Look at how fast the builds were coming out for 9.5 & 9.6 and all this while they were quietly working on Core. How is that not totally impressive?

I absolutely agree here. As a beta tester I was so much impressed. I never saw this development speed anywhere else.

LightWuv
02-06-2009, 04:34 PM
I think Jim Plant (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94787) said it best, and provided closure for that first chapter of Core marketing.

Looking forward to the next presentation of Core!

CGI Addict
02-06-2009, 05:36 PM
I think Jim Plant (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94787) said it best, and provided closure for that first chapter of Core marketing.

Looking forward to the next presentation of Core!

I'll buy into that.

LightWuv
02-06-2009, 05:59 PM
.. Honestly, you're simply getting more and more ridiculous with each comment.


As are you. :thumbsdow

So you're both ridiculous :agree: Get a room! :D


:neener:


I still think Jim Plant (http://www.newtek.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94787) said it best, and provided closure for that first chapter of Core marketing.

Looking forward to the next presentation of Core!